The Body of Messiah on The Watchers and the Shape Shifting Nephilim: In Plain Sight

The Body of Messiah org published an article titled, The Watchers and the Shape Shifting Nephilim: In Plain Sight.

The article begins thusly, “You will be hard-pressed to find a theological or historic researcher who has not considered Enoch, Jubilees, or at least mentioned The Book of Giants. Originating in the Book of Enoch, they are major players throughout ancient narratives that have been woven into contemporary ideas regarding mythology, religion, and science.”

I would imagine that the, “they” are, “Watchers and…Nephilim.” Also, beware of the subjective term, “ancient” since, sure, Enoch, Jubilees, and the Book of Giants are ancient to us but they’re still from the much more ancient Torah which came centuries, if not millennia, before them—and of which they are folklore, with 1 Enoch being Bible contradicting to boot, see my book In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

We then get a, “Summary of the Book Of Enoch” without elucidation that, as you may have noted form the title of my book there are more than one (and one of the asserts that he wrote over 300 books). So, the reference is actually to 1 Enoch a.k.a. Ethiopic Enoch, “The book was written between 300 BC and AD 200 and is attributed to him (Enoch) along with Noah’s great-grandfather…There is a man called Enoch, referenced in the Bible (Genesis 5:21–24)” but zero indication he wrote that and the Old Testament mentions 33 so called lost books but never mentions it.

That text is why pop-Nephilologists tend to use the Second Temple Era term Watchers when referring to Angels from the Gen 6 affair which took place millennia before then.

The article then notes, “The Nephilim were giants” yet, biblically contextually that reads as, “The Nephilim were Nephilim” so, the key questions are:

What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?

What’s the Body of Messiah’s usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?

Do those two usages agree?

Well, we get a direct answer to the second question since we’re told, “The offspring of the Watchers were known as the Nephilim, and they were giants that greatly surpassed humans in both height and intelligence.”

Thus, the answer to the third question is no. That’s because the answer to the first one is that it merely renders (doesn’t even translate) “Nephilim” in 2 verses or “Repha/im” in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.

We’re also told, “The existence of the Nephilim was one of the main reasons that God brought forth The Great Flood to wipe these fallen creatures and their wickedness from off of Earth.”

The next section of the article is, “Modern Interpretations and Symbolism” which is about, “the history of the Watchers and Nephilim has been used with a twist in various media to great effect typically by fiction” which has been done as far back as Num 13:33 and the texts the article noted.

Also, “saying that they where Just aliens…saying that these guys are ‘Lizard people’…ETs and their involvement in humanity…a grifter re-packaging the Watchers and Nephilim is disguising them as aliens,” etc.

We’re then taken back to 1 Enoch along with a mere assertion about, “the removal of The Book Of Enoch from the biblical canon” along with that, “the church omitted this particular book.” Yet, to be removed is a very different phenomena than never having been therein in the first place.

The only known canon which has accepted it is the Ethiopian Church’s. Yet, that 1 Enoch is in the Ethiopian canon doesn’t make that one canon uniquely correct but rather, uniquely incorrect since 1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from millennia after the Torah. In fact, that cannon also contains a text titled The Life of Adam and Eve which claims that when God created Adam, God commanded the Angels to worship Adam.

By the way no, the article never got around to why it was merely asserted that Nephilim can do something that they’re not known to have been able to do, be, “Shape Shifting”—unless, that it, it was meant metaphorically as in that they imaginatively are Shape Shifting as people twist and term what they really were into fantastical tall-tales—such as the un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi ones of the pop-Researchers—see my book Nephilim and Giants as per Pop-Researchers: A Comprehensive Consideration of the claims of I.D.E. Thomas, Chuck Missler, Dante Fortson, Derek Gilbert, Brian Godawa, Patrick Heron, Thomas Horn, Ken Johnson, L.A. Marzulli, Josh Peck, CK Quarterman, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba, Gary Wayne, Jim Wilhelmsen, et al.

See my various books here.

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If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

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GotQuestions answers Who / what were the Nephilim?

In making my online rounds discussing Nephilology, I’ve been directed to the GotQuestions site more than once so I will be reviewing their article Who / what were the Nephilim?

It begins by noting, “The Nephilim (‘fallen ones, giants’) may have been the offspring of sexual relationships between the sons of God and the daughters of men in Genesis 6:1–4.” If, “Nephilim (‘fallen ones, giants’)” refers to how some have taken it upon themselves to render the word then, fair enough, but we will have to keep an eye on what we’re told about, “giants.”

Since the qualifying term, “may have been” was employed, it’s followed with, “One theory is that the ‘sons of God’ were fallen angels (demons) who took on physical form and mated with human females (or demons who possessed human males who then mated with human females).”

Technically, “fallen angels (demons)” is a category error—especially since demons didn’t even exist during the Gen 6 affair’s timeline, see my article Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

As for, “took on physical form” there’s literally no indication of any such thing in the entire Bible. Rather, Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology, see my book What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology.

The, “demons who possessed human males” view is historically virtually unknown and, again, demons didn’t exist yet.

The original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the “Angel view” as I proved in my book On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not? A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

And, of course, if it was demon possessed human males which resulted in what the article goes on to assert were, “Nephilim, who were…of a giant size” why haven’t demons possessed men produced such offspring ever since—since they have kept mating ever since?

See what I meant about, “keep an eye on what we’re told about, ‘giants’”? The key questions are:

What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?

What’s GotQuestions’ usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?

Do those two usages agree?

Well, the answer to the second question appears to be something (that was merely asserted) about some vaguely generic concept of subjectively unusual height.

That means that the answer to the third question is, “No” since the answer to the first question is that it merely renders (doesn’t even translate), “Nephilim” in 2 verses or, “Repha/im” in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.

It’s speculated, “If demons were involved in producing the Nephilim, it is likely those demons are the ones who were judged by God and are now ‘kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day’ (Jude 1:6).” Well, no because both Jude and 2 Peter 2 specify, “Angels….Angels.”

The category error continues with an objection, “to the theory that the Nephilim were demon-human hybrids: first, there is nothing in the text to expressly identify the sons of God as angels.”

If they were demon-human hybrids then the objection would be that there is nothing in the text to expressly identify the sons of God as demons. If they were Angel-human hybrids then the objection would be that there is nothing in the text to expressly identify the sons of God as Angels. Yet, Job 38:7, as one example, shows us that “sons of God” can refer to non-human beings (which the LXX has as “Angeloi”: plural of “Angelos”).

Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated, and there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible.

Another objection is, “the Bible never indicates that angels are physiologically compatible with women and can procreate with them (unless Genesis 6 is the only instance).” Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology. We were created “a little lower” (Psa 8:5) than them, and we can reproduce with them so, by definition, we’re of the same basic “kind.”

And yes, Genesis 6 is the only instance since those Angels were incarcerated and, again, there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible.

One speculation is that the demons were attempting to pollute the human bloodline in order to prevent the coming of the Messiah.

We then get back to the misused of that notorious modern English word with, “Another view of the Nephilim is that the statement ‘There were giants on the earth in those days’ (Genesis 6:4, NKJV) simply means that everyone was big and tall and mighty.” But we don’t even know if Nephilim were subjectively tall (“tall” is just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as, “giants”). Also, merely assuming they were by reading that into the terms, “giants” or, “tall” is a word-concept fallacy. And, why would it be that, “everyone was big and tall” if only they are (supposedly) identified as such? By the way, by definition, if, “everyone was big and tall” then none one was big and tall since it’s all subjective and if all are the same then that flattens everything out, if everyone was the same then no one was subjectively big nor tall.

Next up is, “that these sons of God were simply men. This would explain why there were giants before the flood ‘and also afterward’ (Genesis 6:4; cf. 1 Samuel 17:4–7), as primeval genetic material survived in Noah’s family. The fact that Nephilim were still around sporadically after the flood is an indicator that giants like Goliath were exceptional, but not superhuman.”

Since the context is Gen 6, we will swap the useless word, “giants” for the specific term, “Nephilim” and note that the assertion of Nephilim, “before the flood ‘and also afterward” is followed by a citation that states no such thing. Genesis 6:4 reads, “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown” and the flood’s not even mentioned, for the very first time, until a full 13 verses later.

I’m flummoxed as to why 1 Samuel 17:4–7 is cited since it’s about a Repha, not a Nephil. The key portion reads, “Goliath of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span” so what has that to do with Nephilim? Nothing—recall that it was merely asserted that Nephilim were whatever, “giants” and, “tall” means. Also, the article didn’t bother noting that the Masoretic text has him at just shy of 10 ft. Yet, the earlier LXX and the earlier Dead Sea Scrolls and the earlier Flavius Josephus all have him at just shy of 7 ft. (compared to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days) so that’s the preponderance of the earliest data.

Note that, “primeval genetic material survived in Noah’s family” is not only a made up un-biblical tall-tale but contradicts the Bible five times and implies that God failed, that He missed a loophole, that the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

As for, “Nephilim were still around” there’s literally zero reliable indication of that: it seems that the author of the article was just chasing the English term, “giants” around a Hebrew Bible.

We then get to that, “According to legend (the Book of Enoch and other non-biblical writings), the Nephilim were a unique race of giants…” and indeed, that’s legend. 1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah, see my book, In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch and my article How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory.

We’re then told, “As mentioned, there were some Nephilim after the flood, according to Genesis 6:4” yes, that was, “mentioned” but is not in Gen 6:4.

But then we’re told, “When the Israelites spied out the land of Canaan, they reported back to Moses, “We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them” (Numbers 13:33).”

Yet, that misrepresents the text in a few ways: it wasn’t, “the Israelites spied…they” since the article ignores that there are two reports in that chapter, the first one is accepted as is but the only one the article notes was by 10 of those men, the ten unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, unreliable, embellishers who presented an, “evil report” and were rebuked by God: I’ve no idea why such key facts were ignored.

They just made up a tall-tale about Nephilim and, overall, their report consists of five assertions that are unbacked by even one single other verse in the entire Bible, see my post Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

Moreover, the article continues directly with, “Later, as Moses addressed the people of Israel before they entered Canaan, he mentioned the sons of Anak: ‘You are now about to cross the Jordan to go in and dispossess nations greater and stronger than you, with large cities that have walls up to the sky. The people are strong and tall—Anakites! You know about them and have heard it said: ‘Who can stand up against the Anakites?’’ (Deuteronomy 9:1–2). These ‘giants’ were destroyed by the Israelites with God’s help (Deuteronomy 3:10–11; 9:3; Joshua 11:21–22; 1 Samuel 17).”

For some odd reason, the article failed to note that Anakim aren’t mentioned in the LXX version—and fails to note that in Deut 1, which was ignored, Moses relates the Num 13 events and mentions Anakim but doesn’t say a single word about Nephilim: he was surely being too practical, he was concerned about the real dangers on the ground, not about some tall-tale about Nephilim.

Any concept of post-flood Nephilim implies that God failed: He meant to be rid of them via the flood but couldn’t get the job done, He must have missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc. See, fallacious Nephilology negatively effects theology proper. Also, post-flood Nephilologists have to just invent un-biblical tall-tales about how they made it past the flood.

This describes 100% of pop-Nephilologists. And those who claim they survived the flood contradict the Bible five times (Genesis 7:7, 23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5).

I’ve written whole books debunking them such as, Nephilim and Giants: Believe It or Not!: Ancient and Neo-Theo-Sci-Fi Tall Tales and also Nephilim and Giants as per Pop-Researchers: A Comprehensive Consideration of the claims of I.D.E. Thomas, Chuck Missler, Dante Fortson, Derek Gilbert, Brian Godawa, Patrick Heron, Thomas Horn, Ken Johnson, L.A. Marzulli, Josh Peck, CK Quarterman, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba, Gary Wayne, Jim Wilhelmsen, et al.

But post-flood Nephilologists play the name-game when they realize they’ve no support for their theory. We just saw that since based on an unreliable evil report, the literal (illogical, ill-bio-logical, and ill-theo-logical) impossibility that, “the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim” is a platform from which to then merely assert that Anakim—named after Anak, Arba’s son—were Nephilim, by any other name.

Well, Deut 2 tells us that Anakim were a subgroup of Rephaim: like a clan of a tribe.

Also, what about those texts denoted anything Nephilimic? Nothing at all.

Sadly, the article concludes by making more unsupportable assertions such as, “Genesis 6:4 states that there were Nephilim in the land in the days before the flood.”

It also states, “The passage does not explicitly say how these giants came to be” even though it tells us exactly how, “sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives…the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.”

And, the obligatory, “It is best to not be dogmatic on an issue that the Bible says so little about and that is not theologically significant in the grand scheme of things.”

And yet, “on an issue that the Bible says so little” it’s all the more important for us to handle the little that we’re told very carefully, accurately, and specifically.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Mark Moore on The Origin of Angels, Demons, and Spiritual Powers: Fact and Speculation

Mark Moore posted a video to his YouTube channel that is titled The Origin of Angels, Demons, and Spiritual Powers: Fact and Speculation.

Moore begins by noting, “People love to speculate about things like the origin of Angels and demons and

I have kind of avoided the topic because for one thing it does have to end in speculation” which is fair enough. When one scantly speaks on an issue they must all the more ensure that what they say is very accurate since it’s all that others will be able to go by when they consider what some said about any given subject.

He notes, “I’m going to have to speculate when it comes to the ultimate origin of demons and Angels because the Bible doesn’t tell us that” and when we’re told precious little about a subject, it’s incumbent upon us to handle the little data we have very carefully and precisely.

For some odd reason, he actually begins by commenting on, “animal suffering…the brain and the nervous system…mammal brains” and other un-contextual things that I will skip.

He ends up asking and answering, “Where does the Bible talk about the origin of Angels and demons? Well, honestly, it doesn’t I mean you could say that there’s, there’s a passage in Ezekiel about the prince of Tyre: I, myself, am not even convinced that that is speaking of Satan.”

I’m unsure what, “a passage in Ezekiel,” chap 38, has to do with Angels and demons since Satan’s a Cherub, not an Angel and hence, not a demon.

Mark Moore went on to say, “but all it says is that they were created, it doesn’t say when, doesn’t say

Where, and we would assume they were created, we assume that Angels and demons, and whatever other spiritual beings out there, were not self-existent.” I’m unsure where he thinks that Ezekiel wrote of the creation of Angels—or any other, “spiritual beings” for that matter.

He then moves on to, “the creation account” and how some would, “say, ‘Well, the best bet would be because stars are often equated or connected to Angels, on the fourth creation day it says He made the stars also, as an afterthought, when it says He made the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night, He made the stars also.’ So, we’re going to say that that’s when He created the Angels.”

His counter argument is that, “I’ve worked it out, a lot of theology where, uh, you know, the, ‘made’ is not the same as ‘created’: the Hebrew word for made, ‘asa’ is not the same word as in when God, ‘created’ the heavens and the Earth, ‘barah,’ two different words, they mean somewhat different things.”

A shorter and more direct route would be that we don’t know when Angels were created but at the very least, they witnessed the creation of the Earth: Job 38 has God asking and stating, “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?…when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” and the LXX has as, “Angeloi,” plural of, “Angelos,” for, “sons of God.”

Now, Moore then makes a statement that isn’t really contextual but offers a window into his own styled-speculation, “In the case of the Sun and  the Moon and the stars, I think they were created when the heavens and the earth were created. What happens on the fourth day is they are set in place or appointed to do the job that God has called them to do. So, I do think there’s a connection between stars and Angels, I think the Sun is, they don’t call it the Sun because it’s only the Sun in the natural universe, in the spiritual realm it’s the living word of God, it’s the logos, He’s appointed to rule the day, and the written word which reflects his glory is the lesser light to rule the night, and then the Angels are the messengers who carry his word.”

Talk about speculation.

The issue is that he takes that eisegesis and so as to, for whatever reason, conclude that, “it all checks out, but it requires that, that not be the creation, the making is not the creation, it’s the appointing or setting in place: you put them in position but they were already here in some form.”

I’m not crazy about his premise but, again, Job 38 would have been a direct textual way to go.

He notes, “There is no place…[in] Genesis chapter 1…where it describes the creation of the Angels or, and, know, Angel is just a job, we’re talking about the spirit beings in the natural realm could be, they could be Angels, they could be demons, they could be other spiritual beings that do more than carry messages…”

Please be on the lookout for this common, and commonly missed, linguistics error since he jumped from, “spirit” to, “spiritual.” Yet, humans can be spiritual but aren’t spirits proper since a spirit proper has no flesh and bone. It’s also important to discern the distinction since, for example, demons are spirits proper but Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology (see my book, What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology and my article, Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?).

This is also important since Mark Moore continues directly with, “Angels seem to have bodies, they’re not like our bodies, they are primarily spirits and they were described in Hebrews as ministering spirits and in the Old Testament. But they have bodies…are shown to have bodies…very much like ours.”

Please note that the concept that Angels are spirits proper seems to be based on two things: 1) one single English word, 2) utterly ignoring biblical Angelology, 3) man-made tradition.

And he hits upon this by myopically asserting, “they are primarily spirits and they were described in Hebrews as ministering spirits” but that’s vaguely generic.

Hebrews 1 is quoting Psalm 104:4 and is then applying it. There’s a reason why many versions right have the Psalm and Hebrews as reading, “winds” rather than, “spirits” and it’s not that the translators flipped a coin but that the Psalm’s entire context makes constant reference to natural phenomena and to a translation of, “winds” fits the context.

Review those readings of the Psalm here.

Review those readings of Hebrews here.

As for being embodies, he rightly notes, “demons are not. Have you noticed that in the Old Testament there’s no examples of the demons showing up in a physical form—unless you’re speaking of the dragon and the locust and the things in Revelation.” Yet, the dragon (Rev 12) is Satan and the locusts (Rev 9) are Angels so neither are demons.

At this point, Mark Moore asserts, “we who have faith in God we will be given resurrection bodies. The New Testament is very clear on that…it’s not just our spirits that are going to be resurrected, we’re going to

have bodies that are new and imperishable if we’re among the saved. The damned have no such promise, so what I say is that it seems like in the lake of fire, they wind up just as evil spirits, eventually indistinguishable from demons, all that is left of them is the evil desires.”

That’s doubly erroneous: all will be physically resurrected (“those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment” John 5:29) and there will not be any demons since demons are the disembodied spirits of physically incarcerated Angels and when the Rev 9 event takes place, the so called, “locusts,” the Angels, ascend out of the Abyss after their spirits reinhabit their bodies.

He conclusively reiterates, “difference between Angels and demons is that Angels are more typically” always, actually, “presented as having bodies demons…don’t have physical bodies.”

At this point, he just finished a mini-rant about hell and then goes off in various directions so I will pick up on a few of his half-sentences, “Jesus says in the next life we’ll be like Angels, we won’t marry, won’t give in marriage. We’ll be like Angels in that we won’t die, not that Angels are sons of God like us, Hebrews 1.”

Jesus never said, “in the next life we’ll be like Angels” since that’s a vague statement and Jesus was more nuanced since He employed qualifying term in stating, “in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matthew 22:30) ergo, the loyal ones. Such is why those who did marry are considered sinners, having, “left their first estate,” as Jude put it, in order to do so.

As for, “not that Angels are sons of God like us” well, sure, not like us, neither is Jesus the son of God like us yet, they’re all sons of God nevertheless. In fact, “they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection” (Luke 20:35-36).

After an extended rant, he gets back to what the video is supposed to be about. He tells us, “I’m going to move to speculation where do they come from” followed by, “that’s speculation” followed by, “is speculation” and finally to something about, “the suffering of animals in the time period before there were humans” yet, I’m unaware that animals suffered for a few days and did so pre-fall.

Yet, he continued that assertion directly with, “there there’s a reason for that too, because just like when the Bible talks about there’s a sort of a trial going on in heaven” he offers Job chaps 1-2 as examples, “and God is, there’s this audience, that heaven and the Angels are watching and God is showing that he is correct and that his accuser, the enemy, is wrong that that trial that test isn’t just in human history but it’s extended back. It’s much older than that. So, this creation, this universe, was made as part of the test part of the

trial and the demons and Angels both were not from here, they are not from here.”

I’ve no idea what he’s going on about and there’s literally zero indication of any sort of pre-historic trial of any sort. As for, “not from here” well, of course not since, again, Angles witnessed the creation of, “here.”

He then goes off about the idea of a multiverse”: see the video of my lecture on multiverse theory.

He then refers to, “speculate on top of speculations” and somehow makes his way to that before our universe existed, there existed another one wherein, “God says, ‘Look there’s this challenge to my righteousness, you are divided in how you feel about it, those of you who chose right you’re going to get resurrection bodies, those of you who did not you going to be disembodied evil spirits…I’m going to create this other universe and we’re all going into it. The Angels to be ministering spirits, the demons to have the contrary principle, the principle of futility” and on it goes with the neo-theo sci-ti tall-tale.

So, he has it that demons pre-existed the creation of humans and yet, biblical indications are that the didn’t exist until the end of the Gen 6 timeline, when the Angels were incarcerated. He also repeated, “Angels to be ministering spirits” after telling us that they have bodies.

Mark Moore asserts, “I don’t happen to believe the universe was subjected to futility as a result of Adam’s action…God subjected the creation to futility very early on. And it’s something that goes way beyond before Adam and it’s a part of this test that we’re [fast] talking about” (brackets added ;o).

He then goes back to ranting about Genesis 1’s linguistics

And well, that’s about all folks.

For a previous review of Mark Moore’s claims, see Reviewing Mark Moore’s claim that the Sons of God are NOT Angels or Spirit Beings.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Pastor Troy Brewer on Goliath as half-man Nephilim

Pastor Troy Brewer posted a vid titled Goliath was a Nephilim.

Having familiarized myself with over two millennia worth of relevant data—that I used to write my dozen, or so, Nephilology books—I can tell you that he made a claim that is unique to all of human history.

He asserted that when Goliath is referred to what English Bibles have a, “champion” the term is actually identifying him as being, “half-man” since that’s what the Hebrew word means.

Thus, “Goliath was a Nephilim”—which should read, “Goliath was a Nephil” since the, “im” ending makes a Hebrew word male plural—which creates monumental logical, bio-logical, and theo-logical problems.

Here is the relevant text:

…there came out from the camp of the Philistines a champion named Goliath of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span…

As he talked with them, behold, the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, came up out of the ranks of the Philistines and spoke the same words as before. And David heard him…

Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled.

Now, what is it about these words that inform us that he was a half-man—and half-Angel by Nephilimic implication?

Nothing at all.

Such is why Pastor Troy Brewer appeals to (a mere assertion) of a Hebrew word.

Yet, some will assert that since Goliath was a, “giant” then that alone is enough to identify him as a Nephil.

But there are two huge problems with that:

1) The one and only reason to assume that Nephilim were even taller than the subjective average is one single sentence from an, “evil report” by 10 unreliable guys whom God rebuked (Num 13:32-33). Since their say so it the only physical description we have of Nephilim then we’ve no reliable physical description of them and so their height is a non-issue—that alone debunks 100% of pop-Nephilology.

2) The Masoretic text has him at just shy of 10 ft. Yet, the earlier LXX and the earlier Dead Sea Scrolls and the earlier Flavius Josephus all have him at just shy of 7 ft. (compared to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days) so that’s the preponderance of the earliest data.

So, his height is a non-issue—except that he was noticeably taller than the subject average.

Yet, the issue is that he was a, “champion.”

Now, since I wrote the book on the relevant linguistics—Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010—I know that there’s not a single source anywhere that backs Pastor Troy Brewer’s assertion.

The Hebrew word in question is actually interesting in that it’s a hapax legomena (a word that only appear once in a text/book) which makes it nice and mysterious—right?

The word is bēnayim (בֵּנַיִם), the dual of bayin (בַּיִן) and refers to being between, among, in the midst of, from between, especially space between two armies.

And well, that’s exactly why it’s used of Goliath:

came out from the camp of the Philistines…came up out of the ranks of the Philistines…

Saul and the men of Israel were gathered, and encamped in the Valley of Elah, and drew up in line of battle against the Philistines. And the Philistines stood on the mountain on the one side, and Israel stood on the mountain on the other side, with a valley between them.

Thus, Goliath was the man in the middle, literally standing in the empty space between two armies).

Nothing about him being half-man but just about him being the man halfway between the two armies.

But then, whence comes the term, “champion” to render bēnayim?

Well, I would imagine that it’s common sense: since the challenge was:

“Why have you come out to draw up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not servants of Saul? Choose a man for yourselves, and let him come down to me.

If he is able to fight with me and kill me, then we will be your servants. But if I prevail against him and kill him, then you shall be our servants and serve us.”

And the Philistine said, “I defy the ranks of Israel this day. Give me a man, that we may fight together.”

[all quotes are from 1 Sam 17]

You don’t send the water boy to do that, you don’t send the novice, you don’t send regular greenhorn army guy, you send your champ!

There’s also the issue of well, extreme specifics since every time Goliath is mentioned, it’s specified he’s a Repha, not a Nephil—that’s, contextually, the Hebrew word behind the English word, “giant” used of him—which, by definition, doesn’t ever even imply anything to do with height of any sort whatsoever.

Pastor Troy Brewer’s latest product is teachings about “Prophetic Teaching – Angels, Demons and Nephilim” and I’ve not much hope for it, from what I have seen here and there so there may be more reviews on his claims coming up.

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

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Atheists says: [****] your imaginary manners, [****] your lies, [****] your “worldview” horse[****], and [****] you

On the Quote site, someone posted the question Dear Atheists, what is your whole thoughts about the nephilim giants? Can you debunk it for me? Johannason, a self-identified, “Agnostic Atheist” replied thusly and it lead to a discussion which witnessed his worldview’s utter collapse

You know all that evidence for them?

Yeah, me neither.

I, Ken Ammi, replied

The very first systematic critical thinking step if for you to justify demanding evidence, on your worldview.

Johannason

You’re kidding, right?

Okay then. I’m god.

If no evidence is necessary, that should be good enough.

Ken Ammi

I’ve no idea what you mean by “no evidence is necessary”:

1) you’re either replying that you realize that on your worldview it’s unnecessary.

2) or, your reply was a non sequitur since you inferred something I didn’t imply.

3) or, you’re playing a typical Atheism 101 level goalpost moving game of distract at all cost so as to hide your worldview’s collapsed failure.

Now, again, the issue is, “The very first systematic critical thinking step if for you to justify demanding evidence, on your worldview” which I had to ask since you began with a conclusion.

Perhaps I should also ask if there’s anything wrong with committing logical fallacies, on your worldview.

Johannason

If it is necessary to “justify” the expectation that a claim has supporting evidence, then it follows that evidence is not necessary without that justification.

Therefore I’m god. If my word alone isn’t good enough to accept that, then feel free to justify your need for evidence of it.

This is called a “Reducio ad Absurdum”, where a contradiction in your position is exposed by demonstrating that you don’t actually believe your own shit.

Claims require supporting evidence in order to be believable. If that requirement must itself be justified in order to be valid, then the requirement is being declared invalid, which means all claims are automatically true without any expectation of support.

Therefore I’m god, and by my authority I say that you’re wrong anyway.

Ken Ammi

Please mind your manners.

You’re moving the goalpost since it’s not about, “it is necessary to ‘justify’ the expectation that a claim has supporting evidence” but about justifying your demand for evidence and doing so on your worldview. So, just take the very first step.

See, if you don’t do that then merely asserting positive affirmations such as, “Claims require supporting evidence in order to be believable” is just merely asserting positive affirmations based on, “Thus saith Johannason.” I understand you’re asserting positive affirmations, that’s the whole problem, so merely doubling down on asserting positive affirmations only digs you a deeper hole.

Johannason

“Thus saith Johannason, who, if claims do not require supporting evidence, is God.”

If you’re going to talk about “justifying worldviews”, this is all you’re going to get.

The goalposts aren’t moving. Either claims require supportive evidence, or they don’t. Introducing this “worldview” [****] is just an attempt to justify Special Pleading.

Ken Ammi

Please mind your manners.

Perfectly said, “Either claims require supportive evidence, or they don’t” and I’ve noted:

“The very first systematic critical thinking step if for you to justify demanding evidence, on your worldview”

And then:

“Now, again, the issue is, ‘The very first systematic critical thinking step if for you to justify demanding evidence, on your worldview’ which I had to ask since you began with a conclusion”

And then:

“it’s…about justifying your demand for evidence and doing so on your worldview. So, just take the very first step”

So, still awaiting for you to take the very first step rather than continuing to play a game of distract, distract, distract from your worldview’s collapsed failure.

Johannason

>Introducing this “worldview” [****] is just an attempt to justify Special Pleading.

Asked and answered.

So do claims require evidence, or am I god?

There’s no third option.

Ken Ammi

Please mind your manners.

Wow, you will literally do anything to keep avoiding the issue.

Okay, let’s try it this way: the first systematic critical thinking logical step is not beginning with the conclusion of demanding evidence but justifying demanding evidence so please do so.

Johannason

Asked and answered.

So do claims require evidence, or am I god?

There’s no third option.

Ken Ammi

Friend, you can’t fool me since I’m the other side of this discussion and I have all of it on an ongoing record on a Word doc.

So, the first systematic critical thinking logical step is not beginning with the conclusion of demanding evidence but justifying demanding evidence which you haven’t even begun to attempt to answer so, please do so now.

Johannason

Asked and answered.

Do claims require evidence, or am I god?

Ken Ammi

Since now your diversionary tactic is to merely assert “answered” then please quote yourself answering it, from this thread.

Johannason

Asked and answered.

AND I QUOTE: “DO CLAIMS REQUIRE EVIDENCE, OR AM I GOD? THERE IS NO THIRD OPTION.”

Ken Ammi

Friend, you don’t seem to be familiar with how to even have this discussion.

To review, I noted, “The very first systematic critical thinking step if for you to justify demanding evidence, on your worldview.”

Thus, a (non) reply of, “DO CLAIMS REQUIRE EVIDENCE, OR AM I GOD? THERE IS NO THIRD OPTION” is utter incoherence. How does asking if claims require evidence or asking if you’re God and asserting there’s no third option a justification for your demand for evidence on your worldview?

So, to simplify this even further: on your worldview, the answer to, “DO CLAIMS REQUIRE EVIDENCE” is, “No.”

Thus, you’ve disqualified yourself from demanding evidence.

And so if you ever demand evidence again you’ll know that you’re a self-discredited, self-debunked dishonest manipulator (even though there’s nothing with being a dishonest manipulator on your worldview).

Plus, of course, you can no longer condemn anyone for (supposedly) lacking evidence.

But, of course, that assumes you’re consistent but the problem is that on your worldview, there’s also no universal imperative to be consistent: which is why Atheists are only ever consistently inconsistent.

A best practice would be to jettison your collapsed failure of a worldview and repent before Jesus.

Johannason

Sorry, besides that you’re desperate to keep evading: what makes you make an incoherent statement such as, “If claims don’t require evidence…?

Ironically, you’re also projecting since you incoherently asserted, “you’re obligated to simply accept that because I said so” when your point, your very premise, all along has been you’re obligated to simply accept that you’re required to provide me evidence because I said so. Please tell me you’re not really literally incapable of realizing that—especially since I’ve pointed it out to you many times.

Johannason

Asked and answered, every time.

Sure would be nice if you could read.

Ken Ammi

Well, you’re literally incapable of even understanding how to have a discussion.

Please do some basic reading into critical thinking or logic or philosophy or anything like that.

Johannason

I have, and I’ve proven I have throughout the course of this discussion, but you still can’t read.

Ken Ammi

Actually, since you’re literally incapable of replying since you’re literally incapable of even understanding the issue no matter how many times I tutor you about it, you’re not even having the same discussion that I’m having: you’ve committed category errors.

Is there anything with committing logical fallacies, on your worldview?

Johannason

“UM ACTUALLY” stop lying.

Ken Ammi

I’ve no idea what that means.

Why are you accusing me of lying?

You ran away from the question, “Is there anything with committing logical fallacies, on your worldview?” so I will just change it a bit now and ask: Is there anything with lying, on your worldview?

Johannason

Asked and answered. Again.

Invoking this “worldview” [****] is inherently dishonest. Again.

If you’re going to continue to lie, at least get some new ones. But it won’t matter, because this discussion WILL NOT PROGRESS until you STOP LYING, which you are being accused of doing BECAUSE YOU ARE LYING.

It really isn’t rocket surgery.

Ken Ammi

Indeed, this really isn’t rocket surgery so why is it literally impossible for you?

Your “Asked and answered. Again” seems to be a fantasy that you actually believe so it’s very simple, just quote where you actually justified the demand for evidence with which you incoherently began.

This is a perfect example of your anachronistic incoherence:

You merely asserted that I’m lying.

Besides that you’ve been playing (failed) mind-reader, I asked what’s wrong with lying, on your worldview.

You merely asserted that I’m lying.

Etc., etc., etc.

And now you assert, “you are being accused of doing BECAUSE YOU ARE LYING.”

Are you really incapable of being coherent enough to understand that systematic critical thinking works?

Since you’re literally incapable of telling me what lying is wrong, on your worldview–how and why it’s wrong—then you’re merely emotively subjectively expressing personal preferences du jour on the level of telling me your favorite ice-cream flavor or making a “Dear diary, today I feel…” entry.

In other words, you’re saying X is wrong because I say X is wrong by beginning with the merely asserted conclusion, based on hidden assumptions, that X is wrong because thus saith Johannason.

Johannason

Asked and answered. In fact, everything you addressed here I have already answered multiple times.

This would be a lot less circular if you could read.

Ken Ammi

It’s astonishing that you literally created a fantasy and talked yourself into believing it.

Yet, when I ask for you to just quote it, you can’t because it doesn’t exist in the real world.

Well, that doesn’t surprise me since on your worldview, the real world is accidental, as is our ability to discern it, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand that others adhere to it.

So, we’ve come full circle to the utter collapse of your failed worldview.

Johannason

Are you STILL lying?

When you asked me to quote it, I did.

And now you’re lying about what I believe by invoking the word “worldview”, which is used seriously by no-one honest, ever.

Ken Ammi

You clearly don’t know what it means to lie and you certainly have no premise upon which to condemn (supposed) lying.

I mean to quote an actual defeater, an actual justification, not that merely vague assertion that impressed you but is flaccidly incoherent and so impotent.

Let me do your job for you: on your worldview there’s no justification for demanding evidence nor for only basing our views on that which can be evidenced and so you discredited yourself twice over.

Johannason

Are you STILL lying, misrepresenting, telling false stories, spinning fabricated narratives, and sharting out complete horse[****]?

Everything you have just said, I have already answered. Time, and time, and time, and time again, in this very discussion.

If you aren’t going to pay attention, I see no need to repeat myself.

Ken Ammi

Please mind your manners.

Let’s assume that your failed attempts at mind-reading are accurate and I’m doing those thing that you merely imagine and then merely assert I’m doing: on your worldview, there’s literally nothing wrong with, “lying, misrepresenting, telling false stories, spinning fabricated narratives, and sharting out complete” stuff.

In fact, on your worldview those can be very, very good things since they can be Atheist-Evolutionary survival mechanisms.

So, you discredited yourself again, and doubly so.

Johannason

And you’re still spinning yarns, while pearl-clutching about some imaginary “manners” that you yourself do not possess.

No, I will not “mind my manners”. [****] manners, [****]dishonesty, and [****]your “worldview” horse[****] which I have already told you, multiple times, is another lie.

Do you understand? The assertion that I believe there’s nothing wrong with lying IS ITSELF A LIE. You are continuing to lie about what I believe. It’s a lie. You’re lying.

Go on, tell the same [****]ing one again, see what happens. Because if you think my “manners” are going to improve, you’re even more deluded than your existing responses indicate.

But we’ve already established that you can’t or won’t read.

Ken Ammi

Please mind your manners.

You’ve already proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you’re disgusting, very angry, and illogical so you can stop piling on the proof.

You seem to forget that I noted, “You’re moving the goalpost since it’s not about, ‘it is necessary to ‘justify’ the expectation that a claim has supporting evidence’ but about justifying your demand for evidence and doing so on your worldview. So, just take the very first step.”

So, you seem to have confused yourself, you seem to think that you replied with a defeater and yet, you only defeated an argument no one has made.

Now, after ranting like an unruly child, you merely assert that I “lie” but how could you possibly know that—more failed mind-reading attempts—and what, on your worldview, is wrong with lying—especially when it’s a fantastically helpful Atheistic-Evolution survival mechanism?

Again, on your worldview, there’s literally nothing wrong with, “lying, misrepresenting, telling false stories, spinning fabricated narratives, and sharting out complete” stuff because there’s no universal imperatives to do or not do anything within an accidentally (uncreated, un-designed, not the end result of a volitional plan, etc.) existing existence wherein an accidentally existing ape gets angry and pounds cuss words into a keyboard.

And note that you’re so literally incapable of doing anything but being angry that even when it comes down to it, you merely assert, “The assertion that I believe there’s nothing wrong with lying IS ITSELF A LIE. You are continuing to lie about what I believe. It’s a lie. You’re lying” but you never get around to elucidating how mine was a mere assertion nor how it is a lying is wrong within an accidental existence wherein truth is accidental.

“see what happens”? I have been seeing it all along, you instantly collapsed long, long ago when I merely pointed out that you’re literally incapable of taking the very first little step towards systematic critical thinking: just justify your demand for evidence, on your worldview, so we can finally get to step two: even though you also won’t like step so since it’s not what you think it is since you always incoherently begin with conclusions.

Johannason

[****] your imaginary manners, [****]your lies, [****]your “worldview” horse[****], and [****] you.

Ken Ammi

Wow, you appear to be suffering from some psycho-emotional problems.

Maybe stay offline for a while, go out in nature (without your phone), get together with friends and family (in person).

Your worldview tells you that you’re just an accidentally existing ape and so you’re acting like it.

I see that you pulled a very, very typical Quora Atheist missionary move: you opted for censorship by setting this thread to, “Adding comments disabled” so you could run away to your safe-space.

Well, I have kept an up to date record of this discussion on a Word doc and I will now post it on my website.

For anyone else reading this, you can witness Johannason’s utter collapse here:

https://www.quora.com/Dear-Atheists-what-is-your-whole-thoughts-about-the-nephilim-giants-Can-you-debunk-it-for-me/answer/Johannason

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Were “all the people” in Canaan “of great height”?

One of the key issues in Nephilology is the question of whether they made it past the flood.

The only indication that they did so is one single sentence from an, “evil report” spoken by 10 unreliable men whom God rebuked (Num 13:31-33 and on into chap 14). That evil report is ill-logical, ill-bio-logical, and ill-theo-logical. Note that the English Standard Version that I will henceforth be quoting has, “bad” for dibâ/דִּבַּת. Yet, that matters not since the report is not to be considered unreliable due to how it is titled but rather, due to its contents.

Thus, I have embarked upon a research project showing that the report consists of five mere assertions that are unsupported by even one single over verse in the entire Bible. Some assert support but do so only by taking texts out of context to make pretexts for prooftexts: not even texts, actually, but individual verses/sentences or fragments of such.

I have been publishing articles which target each assertion which I enumerate thusly:

1) “The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants…”

2) “and all the people that we saw in it are of great height.”

3) “And there we saw the Nephilim…”

4) “(the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim)…”

5) “and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”

In short, Num 13 presents 12 men being sent into the land of Cannan to reconnoiter it.

Upon their return to the congregation of Israelites, a report is presented which is accepted as is.

Yet, it would appear that the reported prospect of confronting six, “strong” people groups, living in what is descried as, “cities are fortified and very large” alarm the Israelites.

The six are listed as Anakim, Amalekites, Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, and Canaanites—note the lack of mention of Nephilim.

Yet, “Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said, ‘Let us go up at once and occupy it, for we are well able to overcome it.’”

But, “Then the men who had gone up with him said, ‘We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we are.’” Note that the objection agrees with the original, as is, report: the issue is strength.

Only at this point are we told, “So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, ‘The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height. And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”

The 10 unfaithful, disloyal, unreliable men (10 since Joshua sided with Caleb) made up a, “Don’t go in the woods!” style fear-mongering, scare-tactic tall-tale. Yet, the evil report is literally the foundational premise upon which all post-flood and, “giant” Nephilology is based—especially pop-Nephilology which is un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales.

Let us review the six people groups about which the 10 men commented as that they were, “all…of great height”—whatever, “great” means since, of course, that is a vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage term.

Anakim

Deut 2 reads:

We…went in the direction of the wilderness of Moab…(The Emim formerly lived there, a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim. Like the Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim…cross the border of Moab at Ar…the territory of the people of Ammon…(It is also counted as a land of Rephaim. Rephaim formerly lived there—but the Ammonites call them Zamzummim—a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim; but the Lord destroyed them before the Ammonites [Hebrew has, “them”].

A side note to our contextual focus is that Rephaim were a.k.a. Emim (אֵמִים) and Zamzummim (זַמְזֻמִּים, transliterated as Zuzim, זוּזִים in some versions). Also, Anakim (כָּעֲנָקִים) were what we may term a clan of the Rephaim tribe (“are also counted as”).

So, we have data which informs us that Rephaim, by any other name, which includes Anakim were, “tall.”

That is a flaccid designator, it is a usus loquendi: just as, “great,” it is a vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage term which, in this case, is subjective to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days.

Amalekites

Biblically speaking, the only indication that the Amalekites (לַעֲמָלֵק) were even, “tall” is by extension of the evil report. Thus, we have no reliable indication that they were even, “tall” and/or of, “great height.”

Hittites

Biblically speaking, the only indication that the Hittites (הַחִתִּי) were even, “tall” is by extension of the evil report. Thus, we have no reliable indication that they were even, “tall” and/or of, “great height.”

Jebusites

Biblically speaking, the only indication that the Jebusites (הַיְבוּסִי) were even, “tall” is by extension of the evil report. Thus, we have no reliable indication that they were even, “tall” and/or of, “great height.”

Amorites

Now, this is a unique case since, as pop-Nephilologists will do, when you exclusively quote Amos 2:9, you read that it states, “the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars,” you proceed to suss out the height of the cedars in that region, you conduct a one-to-one ratio based mathematical calculation, and you merely assert that Amorites were circa 40ft. tall.

As I noted to Eric Rolon when he did this, one way to know that no one who does that actually takes themselves seriously is that they ignore the context and do not bother with the rest of the statement which is, “and who was as strong as the oaks” yet, no one has conducted a one-to-one ratio based mathematical calculation correlating the strength of Amorites to oaks (see my book The Great Nephilim Debates: Featuring Gary Wayne, T.J. Steadman, Rob Rowe, and Eric Rolson).

But wait, there is more since the statement also goes on to state, “I destroyed his fruit above and his roots beneath” but I have yet to encounter anyone who is prepared to assert that Amorites had literal fruits and roots growing right out of their bodies.

So, when God, via Amos, was just telling us that Amorites were big and strong, I am unsure why we should assume that God, via Amos, was implying conducting a one-to-one ratio based mathematical calculation?

The only answer I have found is that pop-Nephilologists (and many scholarly ones) suffer from that which I term Gigorexia Nervosa: the obsessive desire to see giants, and just making them up where they are nowhere to be seen.

Canaanites

Biblically speaking, the only indication that the Canaanites (הַכְּנַעֲנִי) were even, “tall” is by extension of the evil report. Thus, we have no reliable indication that they were even, “tall” and/or of, “great height.”

Thus, biblically speaking, not even something as mundane as subjectively unusual height can be supported of five of the people groups but only for the Anakim.

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Armchair Theologian on What’s the deal with the Nephilim?

ACTheologian, the “Armchair Theologian,” posted an article titled What’s the deal with the Nephilim? which begins by noting, “This post was published 8/1/16, recently (9/3/17) I’ve come across some information that indicates my interpretation may be wrong, or at the very least incomplete.  I’m going to leave it posted as one possible way of interpreting these passages.  In the future maybe I’ll blog on some of the things I am learning”: it appears that the “maybe” never manifested so I will review what is still posted in order to attempt to suss out what the problems may be.

Key first relevant text is quoted thusly:

“4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.” Gen 6:4 ESV 

ACTheologian then quotes three comments on it:

“The conditions before the Flood are further characterized. Wild, lawless men, tyrants there were on the earth in those days, offspring of marriages that did not meet with God’s approval, children of wild passion, men that defied order and authority and became mighty men, whose names were mentioned with bated breath as those of unparalleled champions and heroes. The whole earth was full of outrage and violence. Cp. Matt. 24, 38. 39. This is a picture of our own days, of the period immediately preceding the final Judgment, full of the most impressive warning for all that will heed the signs of the times.” – Kretzmann Commentaries

That’s more sermonizing that elucidating so is essentially irrelevant.

The next one is:

“The Nephilim (“fallen ones, giants”) were the offspring of sexual relationships between the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1–4. There is much debate as to the identity of the “sons of God.” It is our opinion that the “sons of God” were fallen angels (demons) who mated with human females or possessed human males who then mated with human females. These unions resulted in offspring, the Nephilim, who were “heroes of old, men of renown” (Genesis 6:4).” –GotQuestions

Writing in terms of, “The Nephilim (‘fallen ones, giants’)” is linguistically odd since it mashes together the etymology of the root word naphal with a mere rendering (not even translation) as giants.

Likewise, “fallen angels (demons)” is also odd as it’s a styled category error and anachronistic. The original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the “Angel view” as I proved in my book On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not? A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

Yet, demons didn’t exist at that time as per my Bible based elucidation I wrote in my article Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

I’ve no issue with the general statement, “fallen angels (demons)” if it generically refers to that demons are fallen Angels—now (even if in a technical sense). Yet, within the Gen 6 affair’s context it can lead to problems since, for example, demons are spirits and couldn’t have copulated but Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology, see my book What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology.

As for, “fallen angels (demons) who…possessed human males” well, that’s another problem with mashing those categories together in this context since demons possess but Angels don’t.

The last one reads:

“There were giants in the earth – נפלים nephilim, from נפל naphal, “he fell.” Those who had apostatized or fallen from the true religion. The Septuagint translate the original word by γιγαντες, which literally signifies earth-born, and which we, following them, term giants, without having any reference to the meaning of the word, which we generally conceive to signify persons of enormous stature. But the word when properly understood makes a very just distinction between the sons of men and the sons of God; those were the nephilim, the fallen earth-born men, with the animal and devilish mind. These were the sons of God, who were born from above; children of the kingdom, because children of God. Hence we may suppose originated the different appellatives given to sinners and saints; the former were termed γιγαντες, earth-born, and the latter, ἁγιοι, i.e. saints, persons not of the earth, or separated from the earth.

The same became mighty men – men of renown – גברים gibborim, which we render mighty men, signifies properly conquerors, heroes, from גבר gabar, “he prevailed, was victorious.” and אנשי השם anshey hashshem, “men of the name,” ανθρωποι ονομαστοι, Septuagint; the same as we render men of renown, renominati, twice named, as the word implies, having one name which they derived from their fathers, and another which they acquired by their daring exploits and enterprises.

It may be necessary to remark here that our translators have rendered seven different Hebrew words by the one term giants, viz., nephilim, gibborim, enachim, rephaim, emim, and zamzummim; by which appellatives are probably meant in general persons of great knowledge, piety, courage, wickedness, etc., and not men of enormous stature, as is generally conjectured.” – Clarke Commentary

He’s clearly reading, “fallen from the true religion” into the text since it states nothing of it—even if it may be said to be implied by deep implication.

It’s very elucidating to be as technically specific as to note that, γιγαντες/gigantes signifies earth-born whence comes the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word giants which, by definition given to it by the usage in English Bibles, doesn’t even imply anything about height of any sort whatsoever.

Ergo, the reference to, “without having any reference to the meaning of the word” so that the issue is the meaning(s)/definition(s) of a word versus their subjective usage since, “we,” modern English speakers, “generally conceive to signify persons of enormous stature” which, “we” shouldn’t (mis) read into the Bible: doing so would be committing a word-concept fallacy.

Yet, Clarke then misidentifies well, everyone:

It’s not “sons of men” but daughters of men.

It’s not, “the sons of God; those were the nephilim” since Nephilim were fathered by sons of God.

And Nephilim were, “fallen earth-born men” only in as far as biblically, humans, Angels, and Nephilim (half-Angel and half-human) are all referred to as man/men.

I’m unsure to whom he’s referring by, “our translators” but indeed, it was a terrible idea to only use one (vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage word) to render, not translate, more than one word—especially such very morphologically different words.

Now, note that the list seems to identify seven people groups but Nephilim were hybrids. Gibborim is the merely descriptive term for might/mighty. Anakim/“enachim” and Emim were subgroups/clans of the Rephaim tribe and Zamzummim was just an a.k.a. for Rephaim.

Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids, Rephaim were strictly post-flood humans, and there’s zero correlation between them.

As for, “not men of enormous stature, as is generally conjectured” indeed, we’ve actual no reliable physical description of Nephilim (which alone debunks 100% of pop-Nephilology) and all we’re told about Rephaim, by any other name, is that they were, “tall”—which is as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as the word giants—which is subjective to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days.

Sorry that the commercials keep coming but when I’ve researched so many aspects of this issue, I can’t help it. So, if you’re interested in more traditional “commentaries” such as that of Kretzmman and Clarke’s see my book Nephilim and Giants in Bible Commentaries: From the 1500s to the 2000s. Also, I wrote the book on the relevant linguistics, see Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010.

The Armchair Theologian followed up with, “I don’t think anyone can definitively declare what the Nephilim were” but we can keep it simply by noting that they were the strictly pre-flood offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men who were mighty and renown. Yet, that simple observation gets complicated when were ask who were the sons of God, in particular?

For some reason, “I would first categorically rule out the Nephilim as being children of fallen angels” even though Job 38:7, as one example, shows us that “sons of God” can refer to non-human beings (which the LXX has as “Angeloi”: plural of “Angelos”).

Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated, and there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible. And there’s the bit about the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators.

It’s noted, “God created the bearing of Children as something synonymous with marriage” and the sons of God, “took them wives”—so, at least they got that right.

Now, sadly, ACTheologian plays a typical anti-Angel view card which is to misrepresent Jesus but then quote Him and not noticing that the assertion and quote don’t match. The assertion was generic in the it states, “we find in Matthew that Angels do not get married” but that’s an all-encompassing claim. Yet, Jesus was more specific, more nuanced, and applied qualifying terms, “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven” (emphasis by ACT). See, He was very clear in that He was exclusively speaking not of all Angels but about, “angels in heaven” (with at least 19 English versions having, “angels of God in Heaven”). Ergo, He was referring to the loyal ones, which is why those who did to are considered sinners, having, “left their first estate,” as Jude puts it, in order to do so.

Now, ACT also wrote, “Angels do not get married, therefore it is fair to say that they likely would not be capable of having children either” but that would be an illogical and ill-biological non-sequitur. We, sadly, have literally millions of examples of having children without the benefit of marriage.

It’s then noted that, “To assert otherwise, you either have to believe that God created beings who could have children but were barred from doing so,  or you just have to start making stuff up” well, ACT made up stuff, knowingly or not (I’ve no problem assuming not as in that it was just an oversight) but as for, “God created beings who could have children but were barred from doing so” well, God created beings who could have children but they barred themselves from doing so such as eunuchs or those who otherwise chose to not have children. Yet, it’s only asserted that there’d be something wrong with creating beings who could have children but barring them from doing so but since it’s a mere implication that’s not elucidated them we know not what the problem is in ACT’s eyes. God also created beings, Angels, who could murder but they were barred from doing so: so, what of it?

After that is when ACT quotes Jesus after reiterating the vaguely generic assertion, “Jesus teaches angels cannot marry or be given in marriage” and actually wrote, “I am including the whole narrative for context” but the context (vss. 23-33) doesn’t assist ACT’s missing key qualifying terms.

So then, when ACT concludes, “I believe I can fairly say that the Nephilim were most likely only of human DNA” that’s based on some erroneous commentary and misrepresenting Jesus.

We then come to, “The Nephilim are mentioned…once again they are brought up in Numbers:

“32 So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, “The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height. 33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.” Num 13:32-33 ESV

ACT’s comment is, “The plainest understanding of the Nephilim based on the above passage is that it is a genetic thing.  Some people are Nephilim and some people are not.  I would compare it to being genetically Jewish, British, or Jamaican.  Nephilim is simply an ancient ethnicity.  Apparently it seems to come with some stereotypical traits, one of which is being really tall.”

Well, of course, “Nephilim…is a genetic thing” and of course, “Some people are [actually “were”] Nephilim and some people are not” and of course, “compare it to being genetically…” this or that and of course, “is simply an ancient ethnicity” yet, when it comes to, “stereotypical traits, one of which is being really tall” we see where ACT has gone wrong. This was stated as generically being, “in Numbers” along with a citation but ACT neglected to inform the readers that, “in Numbers” it tells us that vss. 32-33 are two sentences from an, “evil report” by 10 unreliable guys whom God rebuked. Ergo, we can instantly dismiss what they merely asserted, post-flood Nephilim are only possible if God failed and the flood was much of a waste, and since the only physical description we have of Nephilim is from one of those sentences then we’ve no reliable physical description of them (that too debunks 100% of pop-Nephilology).

Yet, borrowing from pop-Nephilology, ACT plays the name-game but at least admits, “Though the word isn’t uses specifically in this next passage we can see a very similar theme being conveyed” and then quotes and comments:

“11 (For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.)” Deu 3:11 ESV

“Rephaim is a Hebrew word for giants. Deut. 3:11 declares that his “bedstead” (translated in some texts as “sarcophagus”) of iron is “nine cubits in length and four cubits in width”, which is 13.5 ft by 6 ft according to the standard cubit of a man.” –Wikipedia

Keep in mind that just because his bed was 13.5 feet tall that doesn’t mean he was as well.  It does mean that he was likely tall enough to need such a bed though.  We have tall people like this today who would likely have enormous beds just like King Og.

See, “the word isn’t uses specifically in this next passage” because it’s not about a Nephil, it’s about a Repha so it has nothing whatsoever to do with Nephilim. It doesn’t even have anything to do with their fantasy height since ACT realizes we’ve no physical description of Og so appeals to his bed: which is an error based on various assumptions. Bottom line is that the, “bed” was a ritual object and not something upon which Og slept, see my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

ACT then posted a photo of Sultan Kosen who is a modern guy that is 8.3ft. tall and that has utterly nothing to do with anything. Yet, ACT notes, “I am pointing out that extreme height is a thing in the human genome” which is irrelevant to biblical Nephilology—no matter if you disagree with the original, traditional, and majority view or not.

ACT then goes back to Gen 6 and notes that before that, “we have two chapters detailing the lineage after Adam” and then invents that, “one lineage is from Cain, very worldly and earthy, and then the other is from Seth.  The line of Seth is marked as those who ‘called upon the name of the Lord’” even though there’s nothing anywhere that states those things—the best one can do is that at a certain time men began to do that, “‘To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the Lord.’ Gen 4:26 ESV.”

ACT wrote:

…would mark the Nephilim as those who came from the line of Cain in chapter 4.  This is because when we get to 6 we see the following:

“1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,  2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.” Gen 6:1-4 ESV 

I am arguing that contextually, the sons of God and man are not the same groups of people.  The referent for “Man” would be the worldly line of Cain described in chapter 4, and the Sons of God are those who called upon the name of the Lord.  They are the more noble line of Seth.  You could call them the Christians of this era.

Sadly, ACT also seems to be unaware that, again, humans, Angels, and Nephilim (half-Angel and half-human) are all referred to as man/men. Thus, ACT’s argument is a non-issue, it’s a myopic word-concept fallacy.

Indeed, “the sons of God and” daughters of, “man are not the same groups of people” that one of the key features of the text. But note that, “worldly line of Cain” is just mythical prejudice. Note that this view has “Sons of God are those who called upon the name of the Lord…the more noble line of Seth…the Christians of this era” who weren’t sons of God who called upon the name of the Lord, weren’t more noble, nor Christian since they were such terrible sinners that their sin served as the premise for the flood so, that’s rather odd.

ACT has it that, “It looks like this breaks down though when those of Seth start marrying into the line of Cain” but that’s after hyperbolically caricaturing both sides.

Also, why only strictly male Sethies and only strictly female Cainites? Well, the Angel view answers that since, again, Angels are described as males.

Now, even though ACT rejects the original, traditional, and majority view, a pitfall of typical un-biblical post-flood Nephilology is still appealed to:

One of the things that came about was likely a genetic trait of great height, and likely strength too.  Not long after that the flood comes and wipes everything out.  Clearly there has to be more going on in the text than is actually stated.  But that is what I am putting together.  It does seem clear though that these traits of height and strength still carried to one degree or another through the line of Noah.  Perhaps one of the girls his sons married was related to the Nephilim, which is why we see it later in the land of Canaan.

Is it possible that Goliath was the last Nephilim wiped out by David?  I like the Christological typology that would imply but it’s not something I would be dogmatic about.

Again, no such thing as, “a genetic trait of great height.” Ergo, no, “traits of height…carried…through the line of Noah.” Nor any reason to even imagine, “one of the girls his sons married was related to the Nephilim.” And, Goliath has nothing to do with this since he was a Repah, not a Nephil, and besides: The Masoretic text has him at just shy of 10 ft. Yet, the earlier LXX and the earlier Dead Sea Scrolls and the earlier Flavius Josephus all have him at just shy of 7 ft. (compared to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days) so that’s the preponderance of the earliest data.

And, “Christological typology” is like saying: well, I can’t figure it out so I’ll view is as symbolic—in one or another sense.

ACT’s conclusion includes:

I prefer the general understanding that I conveyed at the end is because it is the only rendering I have seen that relies on the most scripture and the least amount of assumptions.  It does still have a fair amount of assumptions though, more than I am comfortable with anyways.  So I hold to it in a state of reverent speculation.

Do I think that other theories are totally wrong?  What about the nifty legends of men born from angels with superpowers?  What about all the stories from the book of Enoch?  Well these stories are fun but they are apocryphal.

I won’t condemn them as heresy but I don’t think they are correct either.  Such tales are based more on assumption than scripture, and with what I have presented I think I am able to rely on the scripture more and assumptions less so.

Rewrite, “I prefer the” currently, “general understanding” which is based on many assumptions, assertions, myths, prejudice, etc.

1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah, see my book In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

Now, let’s keep in mind that that was ACT’s view before, “information that indicates my interpretation may be wrong, or at the very least incomplete” so who knows which portions have been augmented. Like I said, I reviewed what’s there and, who knows, perhaps it will assist in sharpening iron with iron.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

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Atheist opines “as if by poiinting out that athesim has nothing to do with ethics is some profound point”

On YouTube, the Matt Powell OFFICIAL channel posted the vid “A Christian Response to Atheism” to which a certain @philwhitehouse4290 replied

If this presentation is genuinely directed at atheists, it is mostly an appeal to consequences rather than what’s true.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to provide sources for your claims regarding drugs, alcohol etc. Is it worth me looking in the video description for the studies you have done on this and the papers you are citing? I expect not.

I, @kenammi355, replied

Well, you got ahead of yourself since you began with a jump to a conclusion of an assertion based on hidden assumptions.

The very first step is for you to justify demanding “provide sources…studies…papers.”

As for, “appeal to consequences rather than what’s true” you seem to only imply there’s something wrong with that but on didn’t say how or why, on your worldview and it may be that on your worldview “what’s true” is accidental.

@philwhitehouse4290

Nice try, Matt Powell is making the claim that alcoholism, drug abuse and taking your own life is more common amongst atheists than other demographics. I suspect he has produced these ‘facts’ from thin air. In his pinned comment he claims that the video contains some ‘hard facts’, I think it’s fair enough to ask where these hard facts come from. It’s standard practice to include sources in the video description when making such assertions.

I’m familiar with the presuppositionalist arguments which are mainly trotted out to shut down any dissenting voices, I won’t be playing along. Here’s an atheist cliche for you “That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” Do you think Mr Powell has any verifiable sources for his claims? I’ll be happy to withdraw my accusation if any such evidence is forthcoming.

Then @wet-read chimed in with

@philwhitehouse4290 Even if these allegations were true, it would still merely be correlation, not causation. Because atheism by itself has nothing to do with any of those things.

@kenammi355

@wet-read  What Atheism has to do with them is that there’s literally nothing wrong with them on Atheism–nor wrong with anything else, of course, such as (supposedly) making (allegedly) erroneous claims without backing.

@wet-read

@kenammi355 Atheism isn’t about any of that stuff. It is just a lack of belief in God or the belief God does not exist. The likelihood, or intelligibility, or viability of anything else is outside of its domain.

@WhiteScorpio2 opined

@kenammi355  “there’s literally nothing wrong with them on Atheism”

Yes, because atheism isn’t a stance on ethics, but exclusively a stance on the existence of God.

@tye64 noted

@kenammi355  “there’s literally nothing wrong with them on Atheism” This is like saying people who don’t worship fairies can’t have an opinion on cooking techniques.  Just because some people get all their cooking techniques from old fairy tales, doesn’t mean that people who don’t read those tales can’t develop cooking techniques of their own.

@kenammi355

@wet-read  Why do Atheists typically not contemplate the implications of their worldview?

Granting that, “Atheism isn’t about any of that stuff. It is just a lack of belief in God…” then, by definition, “there’s literally nothing wrong with them on Atheism–nor wrong with anything else…”

But having had discussions with thousands of Atheists, I can tell you that they, just like you, demand that they are THE authority to define Atheism. Yet, you were myopic since, for example, you ignored the main and original modern denomination of Atheism which is the positive affirmation of God’s non-existence dogmatheism view.

Still, on your worldview there’s literally nothing wrong with misrepresenting Atheism.

@kenammi355

@WhiteScorpio2  See my reply to Wet since you fell into the same abyss as Wet did.

@kenammi355

@tye64  Oh my goodness, it’s not like that at all. It’s more like, “”there’s literally nothing wrong with them on Atheism” ergo, all you have is emotively subjective “opinion.” But just like I noted to the others, there’s literally nothing wrong, on Atheism, with misrepresenting Atheism.

@tye64

At this point, I’m just trying to figure out if you are just straight up dishonest or have significant difficulty with reading comprehension.  Leaning towards dishonest as most theists have demonstrated a propensity to “lie for the truth”.  Hoping that’s not the case, but not betting on it.

@kenammi355

I see that you’re incapable of dealing with the key issues so you’re opting to move the goalpost to your attempts at mind reading and personal attacks: Atheism 101 tactic I’ve seen 1,001 times.

On your worldview, there’s literally nothing wrong with an accidentally existing ape being (supposedly) straight up dishonest or (allegedly) have significant difficulty with reading comprehension.

So, you see, we’re just going in circles since the prior issue was, “there’s literally nothing wrong, on Atheism, with misrepresenting Atheism.”

This time around, there’s literally nothing with that (supposedly) “most,” please cite the research study, “theists have demonstrated a propensity to ‘lie for the truth.’”

I realize that Atheists have a love-hate relationship with Atheism: you love it for the consoling delusions that it offers you but utterly despise its implications which is why you run away from issues that are inconvenient to it.

But then again, why despise its implication since its implications are only applicable if you’re consistent and since on Atheism there’s no universal imperative to be consistent, Atheist are only ever consistently inconsistent and there’s nothing wrong with that, on Atheism.

@WhiteScorpio2

You’re just repeating the same thing, as if by poiinting out that athesim has nothing to do with ethics is some profound point.

You are aware that there are many more theories of ethics besides the divine command theory, right?

“all you have is emotively subjective “opinion.”

As oposed to your emotively subjective opinion?

@kenammi355

Wait a moment, have you read this thread? It’s the Atheists who are demanding that “athesim has nothing to do with ethics” or morals. But what, on your worldview, would be wrong with an accidentally existing ape repeating itself, being fallacious, only having emotively subjective opinion, etc.?

That brought the discussion to an end as no more replies were forthcoming.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

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L.C. Geerts on “Giants Nephilim and Anakim” Regarding “Earths Ancient History, a theory about ancient times and dawn of Mankind”

Undergoing review is the fifth chapter titled “Giants Nephilim and Anakim” of a book that L.C. Geerts posted on the earth-history.com site (which does not seem to include a bio of him) that is titled or is to be titled, Earths Ancient History, a theory about ancient times and dawn of Mankind (sic.).

He notes something that I discern will be key “the reason why the Gods destroyed most living Creatures on Earth by a Great Flood” which was “a disaster carefully planned by the Gods” and yet, he is writing in the plural of “Gods.”

For more perspective on him, note that he claims “there were at least 3 sunken continents (islands) in ancient times…Atlantis…Lemuria…The Egyptian Keftiu” and is “sure that the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha books should be part of the ‘new’ Bible” since, as is implied, the Apocrypha (whereby L.C. Geerts also mean pseudepigrapha: texts written centuries after the Tanakh closed and millennia after the Torah was written) must contain the actual truth, or augmentations of the bits of truth in the Bible yet, one thing is certain: he would be in charge of determining the canon of the “‘new’ Bible.”

For example, he writes “…the meaning of Genesis 6:3 is wrong translated or it’s a part of the text which does not belong to this part of the story because in The Book of Jasher we can read…” so he is putting the modern day hoaxed fraud cart before the original Torah’s horse—see my book The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts.

L.C. Geerts specifies:

“After their descent to Earth, the Watchers indulged in earthly delights with their chosen ‘wives’, Through these unions were born Giant offspring named as Nephilim a Hebrew word meaning ‘those who have fallen’, which rendered in Greek translations as Gigantes, or ‘Giants.’”

I deeply appreciate that he qualifies that “Nephilim” is “rendered” rather than translated “in Greek” as “Gigantes.”

Now, he claims the result of the Genesis 6 affair was “Giant offspring” called “Nephilim” rendered as “Gigantes, or ‘Giants’” which still does not tell us what “Giants” means and if he thinks it has something to do with unusual height then, why is the “Hebrew word” “Nephilim” “meaning ‘those who have fallen’” but the “Greek translations” being “Gigantes, or ‘Giants’”? Well, gigantes merely means “earth-born” with no implication of anything to do with height—usual or unusual.

L.C. Geerts refers to a “mistake made by ‘The Church Fathers’ and the Jews, was that they forgot to erase the verses that contains stories of Gods, Angels and Watchers” but why does he think this? Because then “what is left over of Monotheism?” which cannot be a biblical theological question.

Firstly “Angels” and “Watchers” mean the same thing “Watchers” is just a Second Temple Era (516 BC-70 AD) manner whereby to say “Angels,” a mere aka.

Secondly, Angels and Watchers are ontologically different from the one true Almighty God so that they are in an utterly different category—that of being created beings, beings created by one true Almighty God.
Thirdly “Gods” are likewise in a different category as the term “God”—el, eloah, elohim, elohenu, elyon—is generic and well, we will get into this more as we progress.

L.C. Geerts then appeals to the unholy trinity of pop-researchers’ preferred texts, with a fourth thrown in, and these are Jubilees, Jasher, 1 Enoch/Ethiopic Enoch, and the KJV.

He writes:

“Genetic there was nearly no difference between Satana and his companions and the Daughters of Men this was also the same by ‘The Watchers’ (Children of Seth) and the Daughters of Men, otherwise they were unable to make children together. It is obvious that their Genetic structure was nearly the same because they were all ‘Angels’ and relatives at the beginning” (sic.).

Note the terminology: “Satana” and “his companions” who are “The Watchers” who are “Children of Seth” and “Daughters of Men” were genetically the same because “they were all ‘Angels.’”

Yes, he claims that Satana, Watchers, Sethites, daughters of men were all Angels—for some odd reason and whatever that means. I am granting that no, I will not be reviewing his entire book but regardless of how he arrived that this chaos of category errors, the point is that it is a concoction of category errors.

Now, I will agree that Genesis 6’s sons of God are Angels and that Angels do share genetics with humans, we were made “a little lower” than they (Psalm 8:5), which is evidenced by that they can reproduce with us so that we are of the same basic “kind.”

However, if by Satana he is actually referring to Satan, the Devil, then he is excluded because he is not an Angel but is a Cherub (Ezekiel 14:28).

L.C. Geerts argues:

“These unions between the daughters of Men, Satan and his hosts and the Watchers were:
1. ‘Satana and his companions’ and ‘The Children of Cain’ The offspring of this mingling were called ‘Demons and Monsters’
2. ‘The Watchers’ [sic] and the children of Cain’ called Nephilim The offspring of this mingling was called ‘Anakim’.
Both were called Giants…”

Here he has three groups (apparently within only one category: all being Angels) 1) “Satan” (he either missed an “a” here or vacillates between “Satan” and “Satana”), 2) “his hosts” and 3) “the Watchers.”

He seems to be arguing that Nephilim came about either due to “Satana” and whoever “his companions” may be and “The Children of Cain” (biblically, the “daughters of men”—on a certain very late-dated view) and that Nephilim “were called ‘Demons and Monsters’” even though he tells us not whereabouts.

Or, they are the result of “The Watchers’ and the children of Cain” and that “children of Cain” are “called Nephilim” and that when Watchers mated with Nephilim then “The offspring of this mingling was called ‘Anakim’” which is incoherent (Anakim are post-flood humans).

That “Both”—both whom?—“Demons and Monsters” and “Anakim”? “were called Giants” is essentially irrelevant—and stinks of a word-concept fallacy.

He actually provides a “CREATURE table” which has:

“The GODS, ELOHIM (AN, ENLIL, ENKI and others)” as “GODS.”
“Heavenly and Arch Angels, Seraphim, Nephilim” as “ANGELS.”
“The Fallen Angels: Satana, Adam and Eve, Watchers” as “Naphilim” (sic.). FYI: L.C. Geerts is borrowing this term from Jubilees 7:21-22 which has it that “the fornication” of “the Watchers” resulted in that they “begat sons, the Naphidim…the Giants slew the Naphil, and the Naphil slew the Eljo, and the Eljo mankind, and one man another.”
“The Children of the Devil and Watchers, Cain MAN” as “GIANTS.”
“Adam, Eve (The Children of God), SETH – NOAH MAN, Watchers” as “Nephilim.”
“The Demy GOD’S” (sic.) as “Anakim.”
“DEMONS and MONSTERS, children of the evil Giants” as “DEMONS.”
And “HOMO SAPIENS (MEN) created shortly after the great flood” as “MEN.”

These terms are not only incoherent on its monstrous face but all the more so when he attempts to apply his mis-categorizations.

L.C. Geerts then argues:

“There is another enigma contained within the lines of Genesis 6, for its appears to embody two entirely different traditions. Look again at the words of Genesis 6:2:
Gn:6:2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
They speak of the Sons of God coming unto the Daughters of Men, while in contrast with Genesis 6:4:
Gn:6:4: There were Giants (in Hebrew bible Nephilim) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The meaning seemed clear enough: there were two quite separate traditions entangled here, one concerning the fallen race known to the early Israelites as the Nephilim (mentioned elsewhere in the Pentateuch as the progenitors of a race of Giants called Anakim), and the other concerning the bene ha-Elohim, the Sons of God, who are equated directly with the Angels of God in Jubilees tradition and the Watchers in Enoch tradition.

With other words [sic.]: Nephilim, in Hebrew Bible Giants, is another word for ‘Watchers’, their offspring was called Anakim. The Children of Seth (God) were called Bene Ha-Elohim, their offspring was also called Anakim. Both offspring were Giants or, named in the Bible ‘men which were of old, men of renown.’”

I am unsure how a basic chronology is read as “two entirely different traditions” since “the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose” and “came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

At least they did it in the right order: marriage, sex, offspring.
This seems to simply be a case wherein he is misreading 6:4 which just tells us that Nephilim were in the Earth “in those days; and also after” the time “when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown” so that they first did so (those days) and kept doing so (after that).

So no, there is no way that “Nephilim…is another word for ‘Watchers.’”
No, there is no way that “Nephilim, in Hebrew Bible Giants” since “Giants” is an English word so actually “Nephilim, in Hebrew Bible Nephilim.”

That “The Children of Seth (God) were called Bene Ha-Elohim” is something that was not dreamed up until millennia after the Torah was written, it was after the time of Jesus, in fact: centuries after His time—see my book On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not? A survey of early Jewish and Christian commentaries including notes on giants and the Nephilim.

Note the interesting statement “Both offspring were Giants or, named in the Bible ‘men which were of old, men of renown’” so that biblically, their offspring (not “Both”) were “men which were of old, men of renown” and not “Giants.”

Now, it is because he claims “Nephilim (mentioned elsewhere in the Pentateuch as the progenitors of a race of Giants called Anakim)” that he had asserted “Nephilim The offspring of this mingling was called ‘Anakim’” which is something to which we shall get.

L.C. Geerts claims:

“…the ancestors of the Jewish race that at some point in the distant past a Giant race had once ruled the earth, from the time of Jared until the time of David, the second King of Israel, with other words the offspring of the Anakim existed until historical times.”

He pinpoints “from the time of Jared” because such is the pseudepigraphical time-frame, and it might be correct, Genesis 6 is vague about the time-frame “when the children of men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them” which is any time after Adam and Eve’s children started having children.

Now, recall that I noted that “I discern with be key ‘the reason why the Gods destroyed most living Creatures on Earth by a Great Flood’ which was ‘a disaster carefully planned by the Gods’”?

So “The GODS, ELOHIM (AN, ENLIL, ENKI and others)” carefully planned destroying most living Creatures on Earth by a Great Flood but must have missed the “The Children of the Devil and Watchers, Cain MAN” and/or “The Demy GOD’S” aka “Anakim” and/or “DEMONS and MONSTERS, children of the evil Giants” since post-flood they persisted “until the time of David…until historical times.”

This is the same bottom-less pit into which Christian post-flood-pop-researchers fall: they want to claim the flood was meant to be rid Nephilim but that there were post-flood Nephilim so that the implication is God failed and the flood was much of a waste.

L.C. Geerts notes that in Jubilees 7:21-22 “we can read also about the Nephilim (Naphidim) even as in the Bible, even we found a new name for the Giants, namely the Eljo. Even the Giants (Naphidim, Naphil, Eljo).”
Now, these “sinned against the beasts and birds, You can imagine that the enormous number of stories in Myths and Legends about half Men-half Beast and half Men-half bird could be true, and it was true, they lived indeed a long ago and even until historical times”?

Well, this is not about what I can or cannot imagine—an argumentum ad imaginarium—but about even what a pseudepigraphical text actually states.

It states “they sinned against the beasts and birds, and all that moves and walks on the earth” and prepped by his assertions you might think that this was about creating chimeras.

Yet, the text reads:

“…they begat sons the Naphidim, and they were all unlike, and they devoured one another: and the Giants slew the Naphil, and the Naphil slew the Eljo, and the Eljo mankind, and one man another. And every one sold himself to work iniquity and to shed much blood, and the earth was filled with iniquity. And after this they sinned against the beasts and birds, and all that moves and walks on the earth: and much blood was shed on the earth, and every imagination and desire of men imagined vanity and evil continually. And the Lord destroyed everything from off the face of the earth; because of the wickedness of their deeds, and because of the blood which they had shed in the midst of the earth He destroyed everything.”

This tall-tale is about what was being “devoured” so that when they “sinned against” animals, it means they slaughtered them for food “shed much blood.” But why was slaughtering animals sinful? Because this was pre-flood, before God allowed animals to be slaughtered for food.

L.C. Geerts claims of Genesis 6 that “In Enoch we see the most extensive version of the same story” but how is that to be taken? All indications are that someone living millennia after the Torah was written decided to fill in gaps—and whoever wrote is ended up contradicting the Bible so much that I have a whole chapter of such examples in my book In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

He then writes of “THE GREAT GIANTS in Enoch” and notes that as per 1 Enoch 7:2, they were “three thousand ells.”

Pause: this text mirrors Jubilees and so he comments “Reading this story makes it more understandable what is written in Legends and Myths where is told that the most ‘strange’ beings once existed on Earth.” Yet, he missed the text’s very clear statements about how when the Nephilim “consumed all the acquisitions of men” they then “began to sin against” animals “devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood,” etc.
So now, he reckons 3,000 ells to amount to 900 meters which is 2,952.7 ft. or half a mile. Actually, an ell ranges from 27-45 in./68.58-114.3 cm, this range results in them being 81,000-135,000 ft./24,689-41,148 m. or 15.3-25.6 mi./24.6-41.2 km. tall.

In any case, take half a mile if you want: that is still impossibly tall—they would never be able to grow that tall and if they attempted to even take one step, they would shatter their own bones.

L.C. Geerts claims that “Anunnaki, Igigi and Sebitti,” from “Mesopotamia, in the Sumerian, Acadian and Babylonian stories” (sic.) are “three different Angels” groups, that “were one and the same and we will call them from now on ‘The Nephilim’” which is incoherent—clearly, he is simply watering down literary, historical, and cultural context so as to use the term “Angel” for just about anything/anyone.

He references Genesis 6 and claims “That’s all the Bible tells about ‘The Nephilim’” so it will be interesting to see what he does with Numbers 13:33 since that is the second, and only other, biblical reference to Nephilim—and whence he gets that Anakim has anything to do with any of this (which they do not).

L.C. Geerts references Jubilees and 1 Enoch and, contradictorily, tells us “We can here clearly read that ‘ALL’ Nephilim and Anakim, Demons and Monsters were destroyed from Earth BEFORE THE FLOOD but we will see later that NOT ALL of them were destroyed before the flood because also after the Flood we will meet them again in great amounts” (sic.) so, all but not all and, again, the flood was not successful.

He thinks that these pseudepigraphical texts, perhaps with a little Bible thrown in “Gods created a new ‘race’ HOMO SAPIENS, our real Ancestors” and that “we know” how exactly? “that Homo Sapiens was created shortly before or shortly after the Flood.”

He again emphasizes “the punishment of the ‘Nephilim’…this judgment” whereby “the Gods and the ‘Good Angels’ were extremely wrath to their leaders” but, again, apparently not wrathful enough.
In 1 Enoch, Azazel is the name of a Watcher/Angel but to L.C. Geerts this refers to “one of ‘Nephilim’” which “we can imagine that is because Azazel was the Leader of the ‘Nephilim’” even though he was not—not even, by the way, as per his own misguided definition of “Adam, Eve (The Children of God), SETH – NOAH MAN, Watchers” being “Nephilim.”

L.C. Geerts claims “in spite of the great sins the ‘Nephilim’ made, the Gods told the Angels that their offspring, the Anakim, still would live for 500 years” but I am unaware of wherein the Bible or apocrypha or pseudepigrapha or any text at all states any such thing.

He speculates “It seems that the Gods didn’t have absolute power over ‘The Nephilim’ otherwise they would have destroyed them directly” which is a merely argument from incredulity, and follows with “In the ‘age’ prediction lies concluded that the Flood should not come directly or that several ‘Nephilim’ and ‘Anakim’ should survive the Flood” (sic.)—see what I mean, he got it, any view of post-flood Nephilim (biblical or “The Demy GOD’S” aka “Anakim”) implies failure.

His view is that “a great amount of the Children of The Anakim’ still lived in the time of Moses, Joshua, Saul and David” but biblically, a great amount of the Children of The Anakim’ only lived in the time of Moses, Joshua, Saul and David since they did not exist pre-flood.

L.C. Geerts claims “The ‘Anakim’ and the daughters of men, The Giants, ‘produced’ all kinds of Demons and Monsters, from the knowledge of their ‘Fathers’ the ‘Nephilim’ and they created what ever they liked and so were born the most ‘Strange Creatures’ that ever existed on Earth” which is a pure form of neo-theo sci-fi based on chaotically concocted mis-definitions.

He quotes 1 Enoch 19:1 about “the angels who have connected themselves with women” about that “their SPIRITS ASSUMING MANY DIFFERENT FORMS” and that “the women also of the angels who went astray shall become SIRENS” (emphasis by Geerts). Since, by definition, disembodies spirits have no form, I am unsure how they assume forms or how women became sirens (in certain mythologies this means women-bird hybrids).

He repeats the error that such “hybrid Creatures…demonic hybrids” had to do with “sin against the animals” which I already debunked. He adds that “Many of these ‘children’, Creations were also of Giant stature” which is biblically unknown except that such is what ten unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishing spies claimed within an evil report for which they were rebuked.

L.C. Geerts ponders “Can you imagine what strength these Giant ‘Nephilim’ had when their body was to 100 meters tall” 328.1 ft. But “imagine” is all we can do since there is no such reliable evidence about Nephilim—especially when you keep in mind that to him, Nephilim means “Adam, Eve (The Children of God), SETH – NOAH MAN, Watchers.”

But he is appealing to such tall-tales to weave a tall-tale of his own based on a basic level non sequitur which is the mere non sequitur of an assertion that large things must have been made to and for large people.
Thus, he argues, that for Nephilim “it’s nearly no problem to carry stones and build Giant structures”—see my video, Ancient Alien Megalithic Builders vs. Wally Wallington & Edward Leedskalnin.

He claims “The Giant ‘Nephilim’ were the builders of most Pyramids in Egypt” in which case, they must be pre-flood. But he also claims “The same conclusion can also be drawn for most great structures build all over the world” sine this is about broad-brush watered-down painting with a generic broom.

In a subsection titled “The GIANT ANAKIM” he writes “The ‘Anakim’ were quite tall and fierce” which is just about the only thing that is accurate—keeping in mind that the term “tall” is as vague, generic, subjective as “giants” especially when considering they were “tall” compared to the average Israelite male who in those days was 5.0-5.3 ft.

L.C. Geerts asserts that Anakim “were living…before the destruction of the flood, there was a remnant of them after the flood…The destruction caused by the great flood…was a result of the increasing evil done by the ‘Anakim’ and their children…even after the Flood they still existed until historical times.” Simply stated, Anakim are a subgroup of Rephaim named after a man named Anak whose dad was Arba who lived quite a long time post-flood (Joshua 15:13, 21:11, Judges 1:20).

L.C. Geerts then focuses on “THE GIANT Anakim in the Bible” as per another subsection. Within the context of the subgroup Anakim, L.C. Geerts directs us to “king Og (the Giant)” even though “King Og was a ‘small’ Giant because he needed a length of his bed of 9*46 cm = 4,14 meters, so his real length would be about 4 meters” 13.1 ft. but he does not tell us how the size of a “bed” amounts to the size of a person—and it is not as simple as it seems since, for example, he lived the lavish lifestyle of a sovereign. Yet, the issue is really that it was not a bed upon which he slept but was a ritual bed upon which alleged gods and alleged goddesses supposedly copulated—see my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

But when Geerts writes “king Og (the Giant)…King Og was a ‘small’ Giant” it biblically means king Og (the Repha )…King Og was a ‘small’ Repha—even though all we know is that some Rephaim were “tall.”
Yet, he insists that “Giant Anakim were the offspring of the Giant Nephilim from before the Flood” and by “from before the Flood” he means having also lived pre-flood, unlike Christian pop-researchers who (also mistakenly) assert that for them “from before the Flood” means born post-flood from Nephilim who somehow impossibly lived post-flood.

He quotes texts from Deuteronomy and Joshua but they are all just about how Anakim lived post-flood, of course, and not a single word about them living pre-flood, of course.

L.C. Geerts writes “In the Bible we can find a large amount of stories regarding the Anakim and their ‘degenerated’ offspring called the children of Anak, Emims and other names.”

He does not seem to realize that it is the Anakim who are the children of Anak. He does not seem to realize that, Emim and Anakim were a subgroup of Rephaim and also “Zamzummim” is an aka for “Rephaim,” “The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; Which also were accounted giants [Rephaim], as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims…a land of giants [Rephaim]: giants [Rephaim] dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims” (Deuteronomy 2:10-11, 20-21).

Thus, the main people group is Rephaim aka Zamzummim which splits off into subgroups such as Emim and Anakim—“were accounted” as Rephaim.”

Yet, he goes on to write “The Emims were as tall as the Anakims and belonged also to the Giants [biblically, Rephaim], and they were Children of the Anakims and Moses referred that these children of the Anakims still lived on Earth in the days of Joshua and later still in the days of David. (Goliath).”

Yet that is because biblically, such is when they lived, of course: they did not come from pre-flood times. Goliath was Philistine who were a subgroup of Ankaim who were a subgroup of Rephaim and nothing to do with Nephilim.

When L.C. Geerts writes “Moses spoke also of Giants in the days of the journey out of Egypt, again proof that the Gods didn’t destroy all of them during the Flood because they still lived thousands of years after the flood” it is readily discernable that he is making a typical pop-researcher error: he is merely reading an English version that has “Giants” in Genesis 6:4, then continuing to read about “Giants” in post-flood texts, and concluding that one word/term/concept can only ever mean one thing ergo, the post-flood “Giants” are the same as pre-flood “Giants”—this is a reading comprehension issue, a hermeneutical one.

Yet, of course and again, in such versions pre-flood “Giants” are Nephilim and post-flood “Giants” are Rephaim and there is no relation between them—and if you are thinking “Hey, what about Numbers 13:33?” well, we come to this next.

I previously noted “He references Genesis 6 and claims, ‘That’s all the Bible tells about ‘The Nephilim’’ so it will be interesting to see what he does with Numbers 13:33 since that is the second, and only other, biblical reference to Nephilim—and whence he gets that Anakim has anything to do with any of this (which they do not).”

Now, he quotes “Nm:13:32: And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. Nm:13:33: And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

His comment is “Even the Children of Anak (Anakim) were still of a great stature, still so great that Joshua and his army were like grasshoppers before them, so even after a long period of degeneration the Children of the Anakim were still Giants in their eyes. A strange detail is that is written that these sons of Anak eats the inhabitants of that land, so they were also Cannibals.”

This is typical pop-researcher modus operandi in a few ways. Note that he does not interact with the narrative of the text but merely appeals to two verses. He quoted but ignores that he is appealing to, and trusting, an “evil report.” He reads “it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants” as that Anakim were cannibals when the narrative denotes that they were contradicting the previous, accurate, report (Num 13:32-33) about how the land flows with milk and honey: they were asserting that the land was bad.

Oddly, he focuses on Anakim but ignores that v. 33 also refers to Nephilim. Yet, since he quoted a version that has “there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants” it really does seem that he literally does not realize that here “giants” is rendering “Nephilim” especially since he claimed that Genesis 6 contains “all the Bible tells about ‘The Nephilim’”: he really does not know what he is reading.

Okay but what about the verifiable fact that the Bible says, or Moses said, or God inspired it, or however one may term it. The issue is that God inspired that it be written, Moses wrote it, and the Bible says it and yet, the key issues are always the same: who said what was recorded, why did they say it, how was it taken (accepted or rejected), etc.?

The elucidation of this text is that upon which I focused in post Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

In short, that was merely recording a statement by ten unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishing spies who presented an evil report for which God rebuked them. They made five assertions about which the whole entire rest of the Bible knows nothing: 1) that the land was bad, 2) that all of the people of the land were of great stature, 3) that there were post-flood Nephilim, 4) that Anakim were related to them (at least in non-LXX versions), and 5) that Nephilim were unusually tall.

They also contradicted Moses, Caleb, Joshua, God and the rest of the whole entire Bible: all of whom affirm that presence of Anakim in the land but say not a word about Nephilim nor relation to Nephilim—never, ever.

That is merely naming a few of the problems with those two verses.

L.C. Geerts goes on to claim “in the time of Saul and David we can still find the Giants” and quotes 2 Samuel 21:18, 1 Chronicles 20:4-8, 21:1, 1 Samuel 17:4-7, and 1 Chronicles 20:4-8 which prove not his point but rather, prove that he does not realize that he has been reading about Rephaim, of the Anakim or not, and that Rephaim had no relation to Nephilim.

But he is not done yet as he offers “more proof that the Children of the Giant ‘Anakim’ still lived on Earth in the time of Saul and David.”

One such “proof” is “The children of ‘The Nephilim’ and the daughters of Man (the children of Cain) were the Giant ‘Anakim’ with enormous strength and length. (from 10 to 100 meters tall) and their lifetime was about 500 years”: this is merely made-up stuff—period.

“These Giants were the builders of the enormous structures all over the word, including the Pyramids of Egypt, Stonehenge in England and many more structures and ancient cities”: mere assertion based on arguments from incredulity and the non sequitur that large things were built by and for large people. FYI: there is a door where I work that is about 25 feet tall and I have never seen a “giant” walking around the building. This is also based on assuming that them primitives didn’t know how to do that and we are oh, so much smarted and we don’t know so……………GIANTS!!!

He note his theory about “after the flood…creation of a new ‘race’, namely ‘HOMO SAPIENS’” and Anakim “‘created’ all kinds of Demons and Monsters…Strange Creatures” and then writes “Can you imagine why I don’t belief in the theory that all living people on this earth are children of ADAM and EVE ?. People who still belief that story are unwilling to read the Bible and other books as historical books.”

I do not have to imagine, I know by reading his assertions that is because he is very confused, does not know what he is reading, redefines and waters down terms/concepts to force-fit them into his theory, etc.

He concludes that our world is in such a state before we “are unwilling to use our intelligence” so “Let us open our eyes and minds and let us search together for the real history of our Home planet and ancestors then to use a lot of time to fight each other with dogma’s within our religions” which, of course, means that if we accept his dogma, there will be world peace—somehow.

He proposes that we, or he “rewrite the Bible” to “including at least, the book of Jubilees and the books of Enoch.” Yet, he is “sorry to announce that this will not happen because of the reason I mentioned already ‘Monotheism’” but well, also because those late dated folkloric texts contradict the Bible.

He adds that “Our church fathers…deceive the religious people” which L.C. Geerts knows based on “all secret books and scrolls that are stored in the Vatican and other places” which is a form of the claim that lack of evidence is evidence: there are text that we cannot see so they must be there.

He ends his can’t we all just get along—while I besmirch you crusade with “the Bible exists in several versions, (Jewish, Bibles of Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Christianity, each differing in some of their contents” and yet, unified in their overall primary message: salvation by grace through faith in Jesus’ sacrifice.

See my various books here.

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VIDEO: Ancient Alien Megalithic Builders vs. Wally Wallington & Edward Leedskalnin

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.