Atheism – The New (Emergent) Atheists, part 4 of 4

Is The New Atheist Movement Dead?
The New Atheists have expressed that the proverbial straw-that-broke-the-Atheist-camel’s-back was the group of attacks on the United States of America on September 11, 2001 AD. That is not to say that some of them were not Atheist activists before then, but 9/11 fanned the flames of their activism.The attacks on 9/11 where primarily caused by Islamic extremism (with a long list of other causes such as maintenance or gaining of power, wealth, popularity, etc.). The question is: what have the New Atheists done in response to this particular event, this particular threat? Surely, they would focus their efforts primarily, if not exclusively, upon confronting this threat, this cause, head on.

Yet, what have the New Atheists done? What they have and have not done makes one wonder if their appeal to 9/11 is a reason or an excuse. After all, why 9/11? Are they not aware of similar atrocities throughout history? Are they not aware of the recent chronicles of the most secular century in human history also being the bloodiest-with millions upon millions being murdered not only during war, but also by their own regimes? (see here).

Have any of the New Atheists toured Islamic countries giving lectures in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they done anything of the sort at all?The answers to all of the above are: “No.” Rather, what they have done is sit within the comfort and safety of countries based on Christian principles and conveniently launched condemnations which are roughly quantifiable as being 90% anti-Christian and 10% anti-other religions (and this may be being too generous an estimation).Richard Dawkins wrote:

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.1

However, has Richard Dawkins dared to make this declaration replacing his statement: “The God of the Old Testament” with “The God of the Qur’an”? Has he toured Islamic countries proudly promulgating such sentiments? No.2 Has Sam Harris written a Letter to a Muslim Nation? No.There are at least two aspects to answer the question as to why, or rather, why not?Firstly, in their eyes, 9/11 was caused by “religion” in general-Islamic extremism being a mere side effect of the main problem.Second, and more importantly, Sam Harris had a stroke of genius in laying the blame for religious extremism on religious moderates. He reasoned that it was the tolerance of the moderates that eventually led to unrestrained extremism. This was brilliant because it allowed the New Atheists to excuse themselves from taking on the real danger which they should be tackling; and instead, they could focus on what they could now declare to be the true evil of our world: Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, the Bishop of Canterbury, the Pope, et al. They could take aim at easy or otherwise mostly-if not altogether-harmless targets, while hiding from the real dangers of the world and at the same time paint themselves as courageous crusaders! islamandatheism-7739567

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Pope John Paul II forgiving the man
who attempted to assassinate him

Richard Dawkins also wrote:

In illustration of the dark side of absolutism, I mentioned the Christians in America who blow up abortion clinics, and the Taliban of Afghanistan, whose list of cruelties, especially to women, I find too painful to recount.3

Conveniently, Richard Dawkins’ pain allows him to completely fail to recount the atrocities of Islamic extremists and allows him to focus on the most preposterous examples of actions carried out by so-called “Christians.”Thus, we ask: Is the New Atheist movement dead?Atheists generally claim that “atheism” cannot be blamed for any malevolence, since it is merely a “lack of God belief.” And so similarly, we may argue that “theism” cannot be blamed for any malevolence, since it is merely an “existence of God belief.”

Moreover, “religion” cannot be blamed for any malevolence, since it is merely a “systematization of worship of God.” (see Is the Atheist Argument from Religious Violence Cogent?)

The point: Atheists claim that since Atheism does not imply anything in particular beyond “lack of God belief,” it cannot motivate anyone toward anything. It is individual Atheists who go from “lack of God belief” to building their particular world views who may act malevolently.Correspondingly, since theism does not imply anything in particular beyond an “existence of God belief,” it cannot motivate anyone toward anything. Furthermore, since religion does not imply anything in particular beyond a “systematization of worship of God,” it cannot motivate anyone toward anything.It is individual theists and religionists who go from “existence of God belief” to building their particular world views or theologies who may act malevolently.Therefore, since the New Atheists generically condemn “religion” and have failed to focus their attention upon that which set the movement into motion in the first place, they-as a movement- are dead.

Granted, this is not to say they are done, or they will go away. They will surely remain vociferous and popular. The reference to their movement’s death is to their credibility in general and to the direct consequence of being deficient in that which they had originally set out to accomplish.

Let Us Heed Their Words
Nick Spencer, a Christian and writer for the UK Telegraph blog, wrote:

Christians, whether or not they acknowledge it, have sometimes needed Atheists to remind them how to live like Christians.4

There is very much about which theists (and Christians, in particular) can agree with even the most militant Atheist activists. We could “Amen!” many of their criticisms of “religion.”Many of their objections are the same ones we voiced and are the reasons why we denounced “religion” and developed a personal relationship with the Messiah Jesus. Likewise, we could agree with their criticisms about superstition, religious fanaticism, religious abuse of power, money-hungry televangelists, hypocrisy, etc.In fact, the only favorable mention of “religion” in the New Testament is,

Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Thus, while overall the New Atheism is very faulty for various reasons and ought to be refuted at every opportunity, they do play an important role in the dialogue, in sharpening our apologetics, and in waking up the slumbering church. In fact, at the very bottom of anything that the New Atheists get right is merely a reflection of that which God beat them to millennia ago—see The Most Anti-Religion Book Ever Published. ‹ Atheism – The New (Emergent) Atheists, part 3 of 4 up

The Nephilim, the Annunaki and the Apkallu

In view are just a few points made in the Annunaki website’s article Who Were the Nephilim? I have previously written about the issue of Annunaki and Apkallu with relation to the Nephilim in a series found under Origin of Watchers.

The article does a good job reviewing the two main Judeo-Christian views on the issue (Angel vs. Sethite, see here) as well as the Sumerian view regarding the Annunaki and Apkallu and we will get into the correlation below.

The article touches upon a common conception thusly, “angels are traditionally seen as sexless beings, so in theory they should be incapable of procreation. Of course, we may not know all there is to know about angels. And perhaps fallen angels are different. Maybe their sins reflected not just a change in their actions, but also a shift in their nature. All of this is supposition…”
Well, speaking biblically, this is actually a common misconception as Angels look just like human males (no wings, no halos) and are just as physical (are not spirits) yet moreso: they appear to inhabit glorified or resurrected bodies such as Jesus’ meaning physical enough to eat, be touched, etc. and yet able to walk through closed doors, appearing and disappearing, etc.
Thus, regardless of that which we do not know about Angels, we know that much. Also, we have no indication that fallen Angels are any different: that they changed form, look “creepy,” have bat-like wings or horns or any such thing.

The article notes that the Anunnaki “represent the deities of the ancient Mesopotamians (Marduk, Enlil, etc.). They were the gods worshipped by the Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians, and Akkadians…I am referring primarily to their original role as Sumerian deities” and not the subsequent pop-view of them being “reptilian alien visitors who came to earth” such as has been “popularized by author Zecharia Sitchin as well as David Icke” and I will add Erich Von Daniken and the whole crowd who turned his ancient astronaut theory into the neo-ancient aliens fad.

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It is noted:

Those who believe that the Anunnaki are reptilians from space believe that Nibiru is the homeworld of the Sumerian gods…it has a very long orbit and rarely comes close to Earth. The last time it did, the gravitational effects of its presence caused the Great Flood.

The article further noted:

In Judeo-Christian lore, the story about the Nephilim takes place right before the Great Flood. The Book of Jubilees actually states in 7:21-25 that God flooded the earth specifically to get rid of the Nephilim:

“21 For owing to these three things came the flood upon the earth, namely, owing to the fornication wherein the Watchers against the law of their ordinances went a whoring after the daughters of men, and took themselves wives of all which they chose: and they made the beginning of uncleanness.”

Find more details in Book of Jubilees on the Nephilim.

It is noted, “The Apkallu were seven demigods created by Enki, one of the chief Sumerian gods…Enki referred to as ‘Ea,’ which is the name he was later given in Babylonian and Akkadian mythology.” As a styled sidenote, see Seven gods of chaos. Also, you may recall the reference to Enkin in Is the Bible an Anunnaki control mechanism?

The article notes that as per the Sumerian mythology “These beings were sent by Enki to teach human beings the arts of civilization: agriculture, writing, building, and so on.” Which correlates to the Book of Enoch noting that various Angels called “Watchers” taught humanity various skills.

It is noted that “At some point after the Flood, four Apkallu-human hybrids [resulted from] Apkallu and humans…interbreeding” which is why this is said to correlate to the Nephilim who are the result of interbreeding between the sons of God Angels and human daughters of men.
As the article puts it:

Do not forget, in Biblical lore, the Nephilim are the children of fallen angels, not fallen angels…If anything, the Nephilim can probably be equated to the Apkallu-human hybrids, not the Anunnaki themselves. Remember, the Anunnaki were gods. The Apkallu were demigods.

Since ancient mythology/legend tends to change over time I am uncertain of the article’s source of the post-flood timeline however, I can cite Constance E. Gane’s 2012 AD dissertation for a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Studies at UC Berkeley which is titled, “Composite Beings in Neo-Babylonian Art” and refers to “antediluvian sages or apkallu” thus pre-flood as well as “the primordial apkallu sages, who taught the wisdom of civilization to humans…After the great Flood, the crucial wisdom of the apkallu was accessible…through the priestly scholars…”

The article concludes:

It is clear that the Nibiru story and the Biblical story are both referring to the same cataclysmic event. The stories may differ as to the cause of the Flood, but both narratives connect to a mysterious race of powerful beings which used humanity for its own ends. It seems likely that they are referring to the same race of overlords.

Note that Sumerian civilization is thought to have existed circa 3500-1750 BC. Thus, Jonas Carl aka Chaim Yonah Greenfield (1926-1995 ADO, et al, think it, as the article puts it, that “it is possible that the Nephilim story in the Bible is actually derived from Sumerian mythology.”

The article ends by stating:

*** Remember, All Stories are Interpretive ***
There are many people who believe that their religions are literal truth, perfect in every detail…There is no such thing as objectivity in storytelling…Which story about the Nephilim is true? It could be that all of them are true in some respects—and false in others. In other words, none of these stories are the truth. They are simply different versions and interpretations of the same set of events.

As for “All Stories are Interpretive” just keep in mind that in any case, all interpretations are not created equal. For example, some are based on taking a text out of context to make a pretext for a prooftext and some based on considering that grammatical context, historical context, cultural context, etc.

It may very well be that different myths and legend could be providing various details. My view is that humanity’s dispersal throughout the Earth after the Tower of Babel event caused common history to become myth and legend and change on this or that point as it became the bedrock of various cultures.

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“Billions and Billions of Demons”

This post comes forth from the oldie but goodie file.

“Billions and Billions of Demons” is the title of Prof. Richard Lewontin’s New York Times Book Review of Carl Sagan’s book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark-Volume 44, Number 1 (January 9, 1997)

Following is the unabridged text of this very interesting article which is of wide enough scope to mention creationism, materialism, the Trinity, Prof. Richard Dawkins, et al. I have also provided Prof. Richard Lewontin’s footnotes (all ellipses in original):

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richardlewontin-5322891Richard Lewontin

“But the Solar System!” I protested.”What the deuce is it to me?” he interrupted impatiently: “you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or my work.”

-Colloquy between Dr. Watson and Sherlock Holmes in A Study in Scarlet

I first met Carl Sagan in 1964, when he and I found ourselves in Arkansas on the platform of the Little Rock Auditorium, where we had been dispatched by command of the leading geneticist of the day, Herman Muller. Our task was to take the affirmative side in a debate: “Resolved, That the Theory of Evolution is proved as is the fact that the Earth goes around the Sun.” One of our opponents in the debate was a professor of biology from a fundamentalist college in Texas (his father was the president of the college) who had quite deliberately chosen the notoriously evolutionist Department of Zoology of the University of Texas as the source of his Ph.D. He could then assure his students that he had unassailable expert knowledge with which to refute Darwinism.

I had serious misgivings about facing an immense audience of creationist fundamentalist Christians in a city made famous by an Arkansas governor who, having detected a resentment of his constituents against federal usurpation, defied the power of Big Government by interposing his own body between the door of the local high school and some black kids who wanted to matriculate.

Young scientists, however, do not easily withstand the urgings of Nobel Prize winners, so after several transparently devious attempts to avoid the job, I appeared. We were, in fact, well treated, but despite our absolutely compelling arguments, the audience unaccountably voted for the opposition. Carl and I then sneaked out the back door of the auditorium and beat it out of town, quite certain that at any moment hooded riders with ropes and flaming crosses would snatch up two atheistic New York Jews who had the chutzpah to engage in public blasphemy.

Sagan and I drew different conclusions from our experience. For me the confrontation between creationism and the science of evolution was an example of historical, regional, and class differences in culture that could only be understood in the context of American social history. For Carl it was a struggle between ignorance and knowledge, although it is not clear to me what he made of the unimpeachable scientific credentials of our opponent, except perhaps to see him as an example of the Devil quoting scripture. The struggle to bring scientific knowledge to the masses has been a preoccupation of Carl Sagan’s ever since, and he has become the most widely known, widely read, and widely seen popularizer of science since the invention of the video tube. His only rival in the haute vulgarisation of science is Stephen Jay Gould, whose vulgarisations are often very haute indeed, and whose intellectual concerns are quite different.

While Gould has occasionally been enlisted in the fight to protect the teaching and dissemination of the knowledge of evolution against creationist political forces, he is primarily concerned with what the nature of organisms, living and dead, can reveal about the social construction of scientific knowledge. His repeated demonstrations that organisms can only be understood as historically contingent, underdetermined Rube Goldberg devices are meant to tell us more about the evolution of human knowledge than of human anatomy. From his early Mismeasure of Man,1 which examined how the political and social prejudices of prominent scientists have molded what those scientists claimed to be the facts of human anatomy and intelligence, to his recent collection of essays, Eight Little Piggies,2 which despite its subtitle, Reflections on Natural History, is a set of reflections on the intellectual history of Natural History, Gould’s deep preoccupation is with how knowledge, rather than the organism, is constructed.

Carl Sagan’s program is more elementary. It is to bring a knowledge of the facts of the physical world to the scientifically uneducated public, for he is convinced that only through a broadly disseminated knowledge of the objective truth about nature will we be able to cope with the difficulties of the world and increase the sum of human happiness. It is this program that inspired his famous book and television series, Cosmos, which dazzled us with billions and billions of stars. But Sagan realizes that the project of merely spreading knowledge of objective facts about the universe is insufficient. First, no one can know and understand everything. Even individual scientists are ignorant about most of the body of scientific knowledge, and it is not simply that biologists do not understand quantum mechanics. If I were to ask my colleagues in the Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard to explain the evolutionary importance of RNA editing in trypanosomes, they would be just as mystified by the question as the typical well-educated reader of this review.

Second, to put a correct view of the universe into people’s heads we must first get an incorrect view out. People believe a lot of nonsense about the world of phenomena, nonsense that is a consequence of a wrong way of thinking. The primary problem is not to provide the public with the knowledge of how far it is to the nearest star and what genes are made of, for that vast project is, in its entirety, hopeless. Rather, the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth. The reason that people do not have a correct view of nature is not that they are ignorant of this or that fact about the material world, but that they look to the wrong sources in their attempt to understand. It is not simply, as Sherlock Holmes thought, that the brain is like an empty attic with limited storage capacity, so that the accumulated clutter of false or useless bits of knowledge must be cleared out in a grand intellectual tag sale to make space for more useful objects. It is that most people’s mental houses have been furnished according to an appallingly bad model of taste and they need to start consulting the home furnishing supplement of the Sunday New York Times in place of the stage set of The Honeymooners. The message of The Demon-Haunted World is in its subtitle, Science as a Candle in the Dark.

Sagan’s argument is straightforward. We exist as material beings in a material world, all of whose phenomena are the consequences of physical relations among material entities. The vast majority of us do not have control of the intellectual apparatus needed to explain manifest reality in material terms, so in place of scientific (i.e., correct material) explanations, we substitute demons. As one bit of evidence for the bad state of public consciousness, Sagan cites opinion polls showing that the majority of Americans believe that extraterrestrials have landed from UFOs. The demonic, for Sagan, includes, in addition to UFOs and their crews of little green men who take unwilling passengers for a midnight spin and some wild sex, astrological influences, extrasensory perception, prayers, spoon-bending, repressed memories, spiritualism, and channeling, as well as demons sensu strictu, devils, fairies, witches, spirits, Satan and his devotees, and, after some discreet backing and filling, the supposed prime mover Himself. God gives Sagan a lot of trouble. It is easy enough for him to snort derisively at men from Mars, but when it comes to the Supreme Extraterrestrial he is rather circumspect, asking only that sermons “even-handedly examine the God hypothesis.”The fact that so little of the findings of modern science is prefigured in Scripture to my mind casts further doubt on its divine inspiration.But of course, I might be wrong.

I doubt that an all-seeing God would fall for Pascal’s Wager, but the sensibilities of modern believers may indeed be spared by this Clintonesque moderation.

Most of the chapters of The Demon-Haunted World are taken up with exhortations to the reader to cease whoring after false gods and to accept the scientific method as the unique pathway to a correct understanding of the natural world. To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists, it is self-evident that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality, and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test. So why do so many people believe in demons? Sagan seems baffled, and nowhere does he offer a coherent explanation of the popularity at the supermarket checkout counter of the Weekly World News, with its faked photographs of Martians. Indeed, he believes that “a proclivity for science is embedded deeply within us in all times, places and cultures.” The only explanation that he offers for the dogged resistance of the masses to the obvious virtues of the scientific way of knowing is that “through indifference, inattention, incompetence, or fear of skepticism, we discourage children from science.” He does not tell us how he used the scientific method to discover the “embedded” human proclivity for science, or the cause of its frustration. Perhaps we ought to add to the menu of Saganic demonology, just after spoon-bending, ten-second seat-of-the-pants explanations of social realities.

Nearly every present-day scientist would agree with Carl Sagan that our explanations of material phenomena exclude any role for supernatural demons, witches, and spirits of every kind, including any of the various gods from Adonai to Zeus. (I say “nearly” every scientist because our creationist opponent in the Little Rock debate, and other supporters of “Creation Science,” would insist on being recognized.) We also exclude from our explanations little green men from Mars riding in space ships, although they are supposed to be quite as corporeal as you and I, because the evidence is overwhelming that Mars hasn’t got any. On the other hand, if one supposed that they came from the planet of a distant star, the negative evidence would not be so compelling, although the fact that it would have taken them such a long time to get here speaks against the likelihood that they exist. Even Sagan says that “it would be astonishing to me if there weren’t extraterrestrial life,” a position he can hardly avoid, given that his first published book was Intelligent Life in the Universe3 and he has spent a great deal of the taxpayer’s money over the ensuing thirty years listening for the signs.

Sagan believes that scientists reject sprites, fairies, and the influence of Sagittarius because we follow a set of procedures, the Scientific Method, which has consistently produced explanations that put us in contact with reality and in which mystic forces play no part. For Sagan, the method is the message, but I think he has opened the wrong envelope.

There is no attempt in The Demon-Haunted World to provide a systematic account of just what Science and the Scientific Method consist in, nor was that the author’s intention. The book is not meant to be a discourse on method, but it is in large part a collection of articles taken from Parade magazine and other popular publications. Sagan’s intent is not analytic, but hortatory. Nevertheless, if the exhortation is to succeed, then the argument for the superiority of science and its method must be convincing, and not merely convincing, but must accord with its own demands. The case for the scientific method should itself be “scientific” and not merely rhetorical. Unfortunately, the argument may not look as good to the unconvinced as it does to the believer.

First, we are told that science “delivers the goods.” It certainly has, sometimes, but it has often failed when we need it most. Scientists and their professional institutions, partly intoxicated with examples of past successes, partly in order to assure public financial support, make grandiose promises that cannot be kept. Sagan writes with justified scorn that
We’re regularly bombarded with extravagant UFO claims vended in bite-sized packages, but only rarely do we hear of their comeuppance.

He cannot have forgotten the well-publicized War on Cancer, which is as yet without a victorious battle despite the successful taking of a salient or two. At first an immense amount of money and consciousness was devoted to the supposed oncogenic viruses which, being infectious bugs, could be exterminated or at least resisted. But these particular Unidentified Flying Objects turned out for the most part to be as elusive as the Martians, and so, without publicly calling attention to their “comeuppance,” the General Staff turned from outside invaders to the enemy within, the genes. It is almost certain that cancers do, indeed, arise because genes concerned with the regulation of cell division are mutated, partly as a consequence of environmental insults, partly because of unavoidable molecular instability, and even sometimes as the consequence of a viral attack on the genome. Yet the realization of the role played by DNA has had absolutely no consequence for either therapy or prevention, although it has resulted in many optimistic press conferences and a considerable budget for the National Cancer Institute. Treatments for cancer remain today what they were before molecular biology was ever thought of: cut it out, burn it out, or poison it.

The concentration on the genes implicated in cancer is only a special case of a general genomania that surfaces in the form of weekly announcements in The New York Times of the location of yet another gene for another disease. The revealing rhetoric of this publicity is always the same; only the blanks need to be filled in: “It was announced today by scientists at [Harvard, Vanderbilt, Stanford] Medical School that a gene responsible for [some, many, a common form of] [schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, arterio-sclerosis, prostate cancer] has beenlocated and its DNA sequence determined. This exciting research, say scientists, is the first step in what may eventually turn out to be a possible cure for this disease.”

The entire public justification for the Human Genome Project is the promise that some day, in the admittedly distant future, diseases will be cured or prevented.4 Skeptics who point out that we do not yet have a single case of a prevention or cure arising from a knowledge of DNA sequences are answered by the observations that “these things take time,” or that “no one knows the value of a newborn baby.” But such vague waves of the hand miss the central scientific issue. The prevention or cure of metabolic and developmental disorders depends on a detailed knowledge of the mechanisms operating in cells and tissues above the level of genes, and there is no relevant information about those mechanisms in DNA sequences. In fact, if I know the DNA sequence of a gene I have no hint about the function of a protein specified by that gene, or how it enters into an organism’s biology.

What is involved here is the difference between explanation and intervention. Many disorders can be explained by the failure of the organism to make a normal protein, a failure that is the consequence of a gene mutation. But intervention requires that the normal protein be provided at the right place in the right cells, at the right time and in the right amount, or else that an alternative way be found to provide normal cellular function. What is worse, it might even be necessary to keep the abnormal protein away from the cells at critical moments. None of these objectives is served by knowing the DNA sequence of the defective gene. Explanations of phenomena can be given at many levels, some of which can lead to successful manipulation of the world and some not. Death certificates all state a cause of death, but even if there were no errors in these ascriptions, they are too general to be useful. An easy conflation of explanations in general with explanations at the correct causal level may serve a propagandistic purpose in the struggle for public support, but it is not the way to concrete progress.

Scientists apparently do not realize that the repeated promises of benefits yet to come, with no likelihood that those promises will be fulfilled, can only produce a widespread cynicism about the claims for the scientific method. Sagan, trying to explain the success of Carlos, a telepathic charlatan, muses on how little it takes to tamper with our beliefs, how readily we are led, how easy it is to fool the public when people are lonely and starved for something to believe in.
Not to mention when they are sick and dying.

Biologists are not the only scientists who, having made extravagant claims about their merchandise, deliver the goods in bite-sized packages. Nor are they the only manufacturers of knowledge who cannot be bothered to pick up a return package when the product turns out to be faulty. Sagan’s own branch of science is in the same business. Anxious to revive a failing public interest in spending large amounts on space research, NASA scientists, followed by the President of the United States, made an immense fuss about the discovery of some organic molecules on a Mars rock. There is (was) life (of some rudimentary kind) on Mars (maybe)! Can little green men in space machines be far behind? If it turns out, as already suggested by some scientists, that these molecules are earthly contaminants, or were produced in non-living chemical systems, this fact surely will not be announced at a White House press conference, or even above the fold in The New York Times.

Second, it is repeatedly said that science is intolerant of theories without data and assertions without adequate evidence. But no serious student of epistemology any longer takes the naive view of science as a process of Baconian induction from theoretically unorganized observations. There can be no observations without an immense apparatus of preexisting theory. Before sense experiences become “observations” we need a theoretical question, and what counts as a relevant observation depends upon a theoretical frame into which it is to be placed. Repeatable observations that do not fit into an existing frame have a way of disappearing from view, and the experiments that produced them are not revisited. In the 1930s well-established and respectable geneticists described “dauer-modifications,” environmentally induced changes in organisms that were passed on to offspring and only slowly disappeared in succeeding generations. As the science of genetics hardened, with its definitive rejection of any possibility of the inheritance of acquired characteristics, observations of dauer-modifications were sent to the scrapheap where they still lie, jumbled together with other decommissioned facts.

The standard form of a scientific paper begins with a theoretical question, which is then followed by the description of an experimental technique designed to gather observations pertinent to the question. Only then are the observations themselves described. Finally there is a discussion section in which a great deal of energy is often expended rationalizing the failure of the observations to accord entirely with a theory we really like, and in which proposals are made for other experiments that might give more satisfactory results. Sagan’s suggestion that only demonologists engage in “special pleading, often to rescue a proposition in deep rhetorical trouble,” is certainly not one that accords with my reading of the scientific literature. Nor is this a problem unique to biology. The attempts of physicists to explain why their measurements of the effects of relativity did not agree with Einstein’s quantitative prediction is a case no doubt well known to Sagan.

As to assertions without adequate evidence, the literature of science is filled with them, especially the literature of popular science writing. Carl Sagan’s list of the “best contemporary science-popularizers” includes E.O. Wilson, Lewis Thomas, and Richard Dawkins, each of whom has put unsubstantiated assertions or counterfactual claims at the very center of the stories they have retailed in the market. Wilson’s Sociobiology and On Human Nature5 rest on the surface of a quaking marsh of unsupported claims about the genetic determination of everything from altruism to xenophobia. Dawkins’s vulgarizations of Darwinism speak of nothing in evolution but an inexorable ascendancy of genes that are selectively superior, while the entire body of technical advance in experimental and theoretical evolutionary genetics of the last fifty years has moved in the direction of emphasizing non-selective forces in evolution. Thomas, in various essays, propagandized for the success of modern scientific medicine in eliminating death from disease, while the unchallenged statistical compilations on mortality show that in Europe and North America infectious diseases, including tuberculosis and diphtheria, had ceased to be major causes of mortality by the first decades of the twentieth century, and that at age seventy the expected further lifetime for a white male has gone up only two years since 1950. Even The Demon-Haunted World itself sometimes takes suspect claims as true when they serve a rhetorical purpose as, for example, statistics on child abuse, or a story about the evolution of a child’s fear of the dark.

Third, it is said that there is no place for an argument from authority in science. The community of science is constantly self-critical, as evidenced by the experience of university colloquia “in which the speaker has hardly gotten 30 seconds into the talk before there are devastating questions and comments from the audience.” If Sagan really wants to hear serious disputation about the nature of the universe, he should leave the academic precincts in Ithaca and spend a few minutes in an Orthodox study house in Brooklyn. It is certainly true that within each narrowly defined scientific field there is a constant challenge to new technical claims and to old wisdom. In what my wife calls the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral Syndrome, young scientists on the make will challenge a graybeard, and this adversarial atmosphere for the most part serves the truth. But when scientists transgress the bounds of their own specialty they have no choice but to accept the claims of authority, even though they do not know how solid the grounds of those claims may be. Who am I to believe about quantum physics if not Steven Weinberg, or about the solar system if not Carl Sagan? What worries me is that they may believe what Dawkins and Wilson tell them about evolution.

With great perception, Sagan sees that there is an impediment to the popular credibility of scientific claims about the world, an impediment that is almost invisible to most scientists. Many of the most fundamental claims of science are against common sense and seem absurd on their face. Do physicists really expect me to accept without serious qualms that the pungent cheese that I had for lunch is really made up of tiny, tasteless, odorless, colorless packets of energy with nothing but empty space between them? Astronomers tell us without apparent embarrassment that they can see stellar events that occurred millions of years ago, whereas we all know that we see things as they happen. When, at the time of the moon landing, a woman in rural Texas was interviewed about the event, she very sensibly refused to believe that the television pictures she had seen had come all the way from the moon, on the grounds that with her antenna she couldn’t even get Dallas. What seems absurd depends on one’s prejudice. Carl Sagan accepts, as I do, the duality of light, which is at the same time wave and particle, but he thinks that the consubstantiality of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost puts the mystery of the Holy Trinity “in deep trouble.” Two’s company, but three’s a crowd.

Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.

The mutual exclusion of the material and the demonic has not been true of all cultures and all times. In the great Chinese epic Journey to the West, demons are an alternative form of life, responsible to certain deities, devoted to making trouble for ordinary people, but severely limited. They can be captured, imprisoned, and even killed by someone with superior magic.6 In our own intellectual history, the definitive displacement of divine powers by purely material causes has been a relatively recent changeover, and that icon of modern science, Newton, was at the cusp. It is a clichh&#a9; of intellectual history that Newton attempted to accommodate God by postulating Him as the Prime Mover Who, having established the mechanical laws and set the whole universe in motion, withdrew from further intervention, leaving it to people like Newton to reveal His plan. But what we might call “Newton’s Ploy” did not really get him off the hook. He understood that a defect of his system of mechanics was the lack of any equilibrating force that would return the solar system to its regular set of orbits if there were any slight perturbation. He was therefore forced, although reluctantly, to assume that God intervened from time to time to set things right again. It remained for Laplace, a century later, to produce a mechanics that predicted the stability of the planetary orbits, allowing him the hauteur of his famous reply to Napoleon. When the Emperor observed that there was, in the whole of the MM&#a9;canique CC&#a9;leste, no mention of the author of the universe, he replied, “Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis.” One can almost hear a stress on the “I.”

The struggle for possession of public consciousness between material and mystical explanations of the world is one aspect of the history of the confrontation between elite culture and popular culture. Without that history we cannot understand what was going on in the Little Rock Auditorium in 1964. The debate in Arkansas between a teacher from a Texas fundamentalist college and a Harvard astronomer and University of Chicago biologist was a stage play recapitulating the history of American rural populism. In the first decades of this century there was an immensely active populism among poor southwestern dirt farmers and miners.7 The most widely circulated American socialist journal of the time (The Appeal to Reason!) was published not in New York, but in Girard, Kansas, and in the presidential election of 1912 Eugene Debs got more votes in the poorest rural counties of Texas and Oklahoma than he did in the industrial wards of northern cities. Sentiment was extremely strong against the banks and corporations that held the mortgages and sweated the labor of the rural poor, who felt their lives to be in the power of a distant eastern elite. The only spheres of control that seemed to remain to them were family life, a fundamentalist religion, and local education.

This sense of an embattled culture was carried from the southwest to California by the migrations of the Okies and Arkies dispossessed from their ruined farms in the 1930s. There was no serious public threat to their religious and family values until well after the Second World War. Evolution, for example, was not part of the regular biology curriculum when I was a student in 1946 in the New York City high schools, nor was it discussed in school textbooks. In consequence there was no organized creationist movement. Then, in the late 1950s, a national project was begun to bring school science curricula up to date. A group of biologists from elite universities together with science teachers from urban schools produced a new uniform set of biology textbooks, whose publication and dissemination were underwritten by the National Science Foundation. An extensive and successful public relations campaign was undertaken to have these books adopted, and suddenly Darwinian evolution was being taught to children everywhere. The elite culture was now extending its domination by attacking the control that families had maintained over the ideological formation of their children.

The result was a fundamentalist revolt, the invention of “Creation Science,” and successful popular pressure on local school boards and state textbook purchasing agencies to revise subversive curricula and boycott blasphemous textbooks. In their parochial hubris, intellectuals call the struggle between cultural relativists and traditionalists in the universities and small circulation journals “The Culture Wars.” The real war is between the traditional culture of those who think of themselves as powerless and the rationalizing materialism of the modern Leviathan. There are indeed Two Cultures at Cambridge. One is in the Senior Common Room, and the other is in the Porter’s Lodge.

Carl Sagan, like his Canadian counterpart David Suzuki, has devoted extraordinary energy to bringing science to a mass public. In doing so, he is faced with a contradiction for which there is no clear resolution. On the one hand science is urged on us as a model of rational deduction from publicly verifiable facts, freed from the tyranny of unreasoning authority. On the other hand, given the immense extent, inherent complexity, and counterintuitive nature of scientific knowledge, it is impossible for anyone, including non-specialist scientists, to retrace the intellectual paths that lead to scientific conclusions about nature. In the end we must trust the experts and they, in turn, exploit their authority as experts and their rhetorical skills to secure our attention and our belief in things that we do not really understand. Anyone who has ever served as an expert witness in a judicial proceeding knows that the court may spend an inordinate time “qualifying” the expert, who, once qualified, gives testimony that is not meant to be a persuasive argument, but an assertion unchallengeable by anyone except another expert. And, indeed, what else are the courts to do? If the judge, attorneys, and jury could reason out the technical issues from fundamentals, there would be no need of experts.

What is at stake here is a deep problem in democratic self-governance. In Plato’s most modern of Dialogues, the Gorgias, there is a struggle between Socrates, with whom we are meant to sympathize, and his opponents, Gorgias and Callicles, over the relative virtues of rhetoric and technical expertise. What Socrates and Gorgias agree on is that the mass of citizens are incompetent to make reasoned decisions on justice and public policy, but that they must be swayed by rhetorical argument or guided by the authority of experts.8
Gorgias: “I mean [by the art of rhetoric] the ability to convince by means of speech a jury in a court of justice, members of the Council in their Chamber, voters at a meeting of the Assembly, and any other gathering of citizens, whatever it may be.”

Socrates: “When the citizens hold a meeting to appoint medical officers or shipbuilders or any other professional class of person, surely it won’t be the orator who advises them then. Obviously in every such election the choice ought to fall on the most expert.”9

Conscientious and wholly admirable popularizers of science like Carl Sagan use both rhetoric and expertise to form the mind of masses because they believe, like the Evangelist John, that the truth shall make you free. But they are wrong. It is not the truth that makes you free. It is your possession of the power to discover the truth. Our dilemma is that we do not know how to provide that power.

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‹ How Billions of Demons Haunted Baloney While Avoiding Detection up

The MAAGE: Masturbatory Argument Against God’s Existence—yes, really! 2 of 10

Herein I continue with a series, the segments of which you can find here, replying to the MAAGE: the Masturbatory Argument Against God’s Existence as proposed to me by a former “male stripper, adult movie performer and escort over an 11 year period” and sadly someone who “experienced social abuse problems and I suffered as a result of them.”

Here is my reply to him.

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Thank you so very much for reaching out to me with your concern and very interesting information.

Firstly, my heart breaks for you as a young man. I cannot come close to relating to how terrible your circumstances where. I can also not relate in that I was raised 100% secular.

I must say that your email has me flummoxed at various levels and I suppose that I would first ask you if you are ok, if you are in a safe place.

Now, the main issue, the underlying issue, is that you are condemning 1. certain preacher’s concepts of masturbation equaling damnation, 2. then going on to condemn the Bible and finally 3. condemning the God of the Bible.

What this amounts to is that you are putting forth ethical condemnations and so my question is: upon what ethical standard do you condemn, upon what basis, premise or foundation?

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His reply was as follows.

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Hi (I didn’t catch your name)

It’s ok. When I come across teachings such as yours, I suffer flashbacks on occasion. This was one such occasion. I apologize in light of the fact that it is still getting to me, even though I know I have come so far past it. It isn’t good to completely lose control like that, but that’s a price I pay for being afflicted with autism. I have great difficulty in coming to terms with even the idea of your God actually existing, it is so unthinkable.

In the calm light of day, I am an atheist (with an extensive list of historical and scientific reasons for being so, far beyond the stance of the mere wishful.) Nevertheless, it still gets to me. I think that the idea of having a no right to your own thoughts – and no right to your own body under the threat of eternal punishment if you refuse to surrender – is the stuff of nightmares. You see, I could no more ‘repent’ for being sexual out of wedlock than I could for brushing my teeth (which is equally unnecessary for survival, but ‘addictive’ and can have negative health consequences if you don’t do it – just like masturbation.)

You asked me: upon what ethical standard do you condemn, upon what basis, premise or foundation?

This rasied a red flag for me. I addressed every one of those points in my article. My reasons for despising the Bible are:

1. Absurdity. (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Christianity not only offers no evidence whatsoever for its outrageous assertions, it actually continues to be believed in the presence of overwhelming scientific, archaeological and historical evidence to the contrary. Your born-again euphoria is shared identically with those who worship Allah, Vishnu, Krishna , Odin, Thor, Zeus, Apollo and the African Ju-Ju.)

2. Immorality. (I’m only going by what the Bible endorses – Slavery, infanticide, genocide, animal cruelty, sadistic laws that the New Testament continues to avidly endorse such as bludgeoning unruly children to death with rocks, the objectification of women, the copious counts of divine-sanctioned rape and the all time number one wicked message – HELL!)

I derive my values, not from the rape and genocide-filled pages of the Bible, but from a rational consideration of the consequences of my actions in the light of my accountability to my fellow man.

You also began by accusing me of condemning the Bible because of how it had been presented to me by other preachers. EVERY Christian says this which is why I donated an entire paragraph to: Sometimes they simply blame other churches!

‘You’ve been victimized. We’re not like that.’

Well, that’s bull[****]! You’re all the same because you’re all reading from the same evil book. Let me ask you this – if I choose to live my life freely, without bowing down to this cosmic tyrant, without pleading for forgiveness for being how He allegedly me – what is going to happen to me after I die?

Don’t say: ‘It’s not up to me. It’s up to God.’ That’s a cop out that you cannot use because you endorse this same God, therefore you must go by what your Bible teaches.

I am happily partnered to a wonderful, loving woman. My issue with the masturbation and sexual doctrines in particular is – singleness. When one is single, the indefinate nature of it makes the sexual fantasy and masturbation prohibition the most sadistic form of torture known to man. And yet you claim that you worship a God of love to which many say this is pleasing??? I refuse to partake in it which is my right as a democratic citizen. I say again, according to your beliefs – what is going to happen to me after I die? Once you’ve reached an answer, look at it again and then try to find a way to tell yourself that this isn’t terrorism (and pointless and arbitrary.)

The idea that you can’t have a fulfilling sex life if you masturbate/ are sexual before marriage is ludicrous. Speak for yourself. I enjoy a sex life with my life partner without the need for the totalitarianism of ‘permission’ (marriage – another form of bullying and control.)

The bottom line is – THERE IS NOTHING TO FORGIVE – (but plenty to understand.)

Truly, I would rather never have existed than to have to live in a universe where your God is real and that’s the truth. Just know how damaging your religion can be to others.

Since you clearly missed it, I have pasted my article again:

Peter

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And, yes, he posted the same circa 5 page article with which I began this series so I will not repost it here.

the20maage20masturbatory20argument20against20gode28099s20existence-4714430

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Atheism

Some of my books, all of which you can find discounted via this link:

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Social networks:
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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
Apologeticspress.com’s Kyle Butt references TrueFreethinker.com:

Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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Nephilim

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

atheist20nothing-cam-4224721

Thomas Horn on Nephilim return: ancient biotech and modern science, 2 of 3

Continuing a consideration of Thomas Horn’s article titled “Did Ancient Biotech Create ‘Nephilim”? Will Modern Science Bring Them Again?” which begins with this translation “The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions (Gen 6:2, Interlinear Hebrew Bible).” Find my three part consideration here.

Some of my books that will be helpful in dealing with such issues are the following, which you can find where I offer my reads a money saving deal:
On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not? A survey of early Jewish and Christian commentaries including notes on giants and the Nephilim

In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch

What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology

Horn follows up with:
“The Old Testament contains associated reference to genetic mutations/i>, which developed among humans following this activity, including unusual size, physical strength, six fingers, six toes, animal appetite for blood and even lion-like features among men (2 Sam 21:20; 23:20).”

But again, this is too much, too fast. That some unfortunately translate Nephilim as giants is just about the only associated reference to unusual size. Numbers 13 is a case of unfaithful/disloyal spies presenting a don’t go in the woods-like fear mongering scare tactic when they did that which the text tells us was presenting a bad/evil report, see Did Caleb and the spies see Nephilim giants in the land?

There is no reason to correlate physical strength genetic mutations.
And while there is reason to correlate six fingers and six toes with genetic mutations, there is no reason to correlate six fingers and six toes with Genesis 6, Angels, Nephilim, giants, etc. the fact is that the Bible tells us about one single person that had six fingers and six toes so this should not been viewed as some sort of Nephilim gene issues (see 2 Samuel 21:20 and 1 Chronicles 20:6). By “animal appetite for blood” I suppose he is referring to the sin issue just noted above.

As for “lion-like features among men (2 Sam 21:20; 23:20),” this is a case of reading into the text in order to puff up a point. The one and only text regarding lion-like features states that Benaiah “slew two lionlike men of Moab” and since nothing more is said we can either conclude that they were lion-human hybrids, had lion-like features or was a manner whereby to refer to their ferocious demeanor: which best fits the text as that section refers to various hand-to-hand combat situations. If they actually had lion-like (physical rather than attitudinal) features then 1) that is a lot to read in to one single word especially when 2) the whole rest of the entirety of the Bible knows nothing of any such thing.

Yet, most telling is what we learn when we allow the Bible to define its own statements. In this case, 1 Chronicles 12:8 states, “the Gadites there separated themselves unto David into the hold to the wilderness men of might, and men of war fit for the battle, that could handle shield and buckler, whose faces were like the faces of lions, and were as swift as the roes upon the mountains.”
You see, since warriors were said to be as swift as the roes/gazelles upon the mountains then someone might tell us that those man had roes/gazelles-like features. Yet, clearly since the latter statement is symbolic of swiftness then the former, that they had “the faces of lions” refers to their ferocity, intimidating visage, etc.

return20of20the20nephilim-7631570

Based on what really just turns out to be one single text, Jasher, Horn refers to “recombinant DNA technology…when the genetic structure of one species is altered by the transfer of a gene or genes from another.”

The bulk of Horn’s article elucidates genetic manipulation experiments and Transhumanism.

So, “Did Ancient Biotech Create ‘Nephilim”? Will Modern Science Bring Them Again?”: “No” and “No.”

Thomas Horn decides to, specifically, quote from the Catholic Douay-Rheims Version of Isaiah 26:14 because it reads, “Let not the dead live, let not the giants rise again…” and from this he can speculate that “it may reflect a prayer from the prophet, a petition to God not to allow the giants to incarnate again” about which he then asks “Did Isaiah pray this way because he knew something about the future, something related to a return of Nephilim?

The last “No” I offered also speaks to this claim as the Bible knows absolutely nothing of any concept such as a return of Nephilim.

In any case, Horn appears to make much ado about not very much as (based on a particular translation of) Isaiah 26:14 he tells us “The relationship between creatures called ‘Rephaim’ and the Nephilim of ancient texts is enlightening, as Rephaim are viewed as the spirits of dead Nephilim in the grave.”
But the Isaiah verse does not refer to Nephilim, but to rapha’ which Douay-Rheims decided to translate as “giants” for some odd reason.

The fact is that this is another case of reading into the text in order to buttress a point. The Isaiah text reads, in part (vss. 12-16): “LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us. O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name. They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth. LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.”

Thus, this is about how at times the Hebrews had “other lords beside” the LORD who “had dominion over” them but those very same lords “are dead”—period. Raphaim/rephaim are not “creatures,” such as Nephilim or Nephilim related, giants. One problem is that there are two words that we know of as rapha’: H7497 is the main usage which also makes it clear that they are not “creatures” but are a people group (circa 24 references).

H7496 which is a term is generally viewed as referring to ghosts/spirits or “shades” (Job 26:5, Psalm 88:10, Proverbs 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isaiah 14:9; 26:14, 19) which makes Horn’s claim that it “carries with it the meaning ‘to heal’ or to be ‘healed’ as in a ‘resurrection’” quite odd.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help. Here is my donate page.

Due to robo-spaming, I had to close the comment sections. However, you can comment on my Facebook page and/or on my Google+ page. You can also use the “Share / Save” button below this post.

AronRa

Are you listening Bill Maher, Raphael Lataster, Richard Carrier, Dan Brown, AronRa, et al.?!?!
When Cracked Magazine is more scholarly than thou, you may want to rethink your position.

Amanda Mannen wrote the article, “6 Famous Documentaries That Were Shockingly Full of Crap,” Cracked Magazine, August 12, 2013 AD

The contextually relevant portion for our consideration is “#4. Religulous — The ‘Jesus Is Fake’ Evidence Is Fake

Aron Ra

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

atheist20nothing-cam-4841978

“Skeptic Arena” Atheist on “David Wood, that psychopathic Christian thug” 7 of 9

That which follows is a discussion I had with a certain Neo from the The (pseudo) Skeptic Arena with whom I have had many interactions all of which, including this parsed one, you can find here.

Picking up where we left off, Neo replied

Ken, good to hear from you. What have you got for me this time? Ken wrote: Now, I have attempted to help you before with regards to the disjointed manner in which you reply to statements Ken, you don’t know how much that means to me. Most people don’t give a [****], but as you just admitted, you have attempted to help me. I doubt God will give you much credit for that though (because I think the Big Guy is still pretty pissed at me after all the things I said about Him in my book), but it means a lot to me. which is the same way you deal with the Bible: you disconnect thought that are meant to be connected and thus, take them out of context and then claim that they do not make sense but they does not makes sense because you have segmented them. Ken, you need to calm down. Here’s what you just wrote:

“thought that are meant”

“but they does
“not makes sense” Ken, I know you are usually better than this, so the only thing I can figure, is that you are really starting to come apart at the seams. Your typing is what one would expect from someone whose fingers are trembling with anger so badly that you can’t see straight. Advice: Calm down, go have a brewski, smoke some dope, have sex with your plastic blowup Betty doll, and then take a nappie. When you have your hysterics under control, change into a fresh diaper, and then you can come back and play. For example, you challenge me thusly, “Ken, produce the quote where I told you to stop it.” But friend, please re-read my statement in the actually connected manner in which I wrote it, “Let us imagine that I am performing some action” which means that it is a gedanken experiment and I followed directly with “You tell me to stop it because it is wrong, bad, evil, immoral, unethical, etc.” Thus, there is no quote, I never claimed that there was and you fail to understand that which I stated: that this was a fictional example. Ken, you missed it, didn’t you? Your entire worldview is “fictional.” (Sports Fans: sometimes, all you have to do is just sit back and watch them set themselves on fire. Ken would have made a great Tibetan Monk). Yet, overall after three full pages worth of font size 10 you still utterly fail to understand how a simple conversation functions and have not even gotten close to replying. Ken, apparently you must have misplaced my last 7 emails. No problem, I have included them below so you can refresh your memory. This is what Atheism has done to you or what you have done with Atheism: you/it cannot justify condemning anything at all, you/it cannot provide the prerequisites of intelligibility, you/it cannot establish any standards of truth, logic or ethics. And yet, you still hold me to those standards. The fact is that you do so because you were created in God’s image Ken, what image is that? Is He white, black, brown, or yellow? Is He tall, short, fat, or skinny? Hey Ken, if I was created in God’s image, how come I’m not … invisible? and this is why you condemn even though you have no viable Atheistic reason for doing so: because God’s law is at work within you. This is also why you demand truth, logic and ethics even though I have asked you time and again (as anyone can see here) to justify your demands and you have yet to even begin to attempt to do so. Ken, I hear what you are saying: you think I’m ignoring you. That hurts me Ken. After 8 emails now, I would have hoped that you would feel differently. So, since you are the one who positively asserts that the Passover events were wrong, bad, evil, immoral, unethical, etc. it is incumbent upon you do give a reason for this. Ken, what in the world possessed you to attempt to defend your God’s murder of innocent children by asking why it was evil? Even Christians are face palming. Little kids are burying their heads. Jesus is puking. The cc list is going nuts. They are all praying for a divine lightning strike on your trailer park. In your deepest delusions, how could you even begin to think that questioning the morality of murdering innocent babies was a good strategy? Dude, you have just given the greatest demonstration in history, of what religion can do to the mind: in your case it has turned it into a quivering mass of useless Jello. So now, we not only have a freak who worships a brutal, butchering monster, but one who doesn’t even comprehend that what his invisible ghost did was wrong. The fact that you could even question that, proves that you cannot discern right from wrong. That inability allows the mentally ill to avoid the death penalty and prison, and instead, be sentenced to an asylum. Hey Ken – if you ever get into trouble with the law (such as trying to kill someone) you can submit these emails as evidence in your defense that you are incapable of telling the difference between right and wrong. Just think Ken, no more begging for quarters and dollar bills – you’ll live comfortably in an institution where you can spend as much time as you want painting pretty pictures. Remember when you tried to defend David Wood, that psychopathic Christian thug who attempted to murder his own father by hitting him repeatedly in the head with a hammer? And now you see no problem with God murdering innocent babies? Dude, you have to be the sickest puppy on the planet. The fact that you can’t grasp the most obvious instances of immorality, and have to demand that people explain it to you, indicates that you are someone who should not be walking around in public … without guards. But I think I may have a solution here: You desperately need money (remember “If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much … it would add up and really, really help “) and most of us could use some entertainment, so why don’t we set you up with David Wood in a cage match? You could both enter the Octagon in brightly colored spandex speedos which will drive the gays wild and ensure that no women will want to watch. And then the two Christians gladiators, one completely devoid of morals, and the other lacking even a meager understanding of morality, could tear into each other. My guess is that by the end of the second round, both of you will be butt naked and the referee couldn’t separate you two with a crowbar. Thus, the reason that Passover events were wrong, bad, evil, immoral, unethical, etc. is ________________________: you fill in the blank and we will take it from there. Ken, ask a 5-year-old, ANY 5-year-old, and they could explain it to you. The saddest part is that … you still wouldn’t get it.

neo

skeptic20arena-7420844

Ken Ammi

Well, friend I will admit that I am dyslexic and that English is my second language so if you want to pick on me for grammatical errors fell free. You claim that you have already provided a reason, and not merely an emotive assertion, for concluding that the Passover events were evil: please simply send me the quotations from your previous replies. You claim that I have defended “God’s murder of innocent children by asking why it was evil?” which is a literally incoherent statement. The order of events needs to be: Neo elucidates why it is evil, Ken takes it from there. Since you have not done your part, I have been left with nothing to do. Keep in mind that you are the one that stated, “ANY 5-year-old, and they could explain it to you” so why can you not do so? You claim that I “tried to defend David Wood”: please simply send me the quotations from when I did so. I would imagine that from your perspective this is a case of you asserting that I defended David Wood by asking why his actions were evil. Same as above: you failed to elucidate why it was evil and thus, left me nothing to do—as anyone can read from that exchange here [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/skeptic-arena-takes-david-wood]. Recall that you wrote, “The world can only hope that people like David Wood, Ken Ammi, and all the other conservative Christians, catch Zika or Malaria and disappear from the face of the Earth…‘You People’ are the most despicable, violent, sub-humans on the planet…”

It is an tragedy that you are so filled with hatred, please reconsider, “God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

While you are at it, see my book Pop-Atheist Bible Expositors starring Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Dan Barker, and Neil deGrasse Tyson and also my book Reasons for Being An Atheist: A Comprehensive Guide

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