VIDEO: Gary Habermas PWNS Atheist Tim Callahan: evidence vs. talking points

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Nephilim – the fallen angels and the heroes of mythology

The Titanic gods, in murkiest gloom Lie hidden, such the cloud-assembler’s will There, in a place of darkness where vast Earth

Has end.

—Hesiod

The issue of the Nephilim as utterly exploded as of the past couple of decades. Within this series, we will be considering a 1879 AD book on this topic. The book has one of those wonderfully long titles of days gone by:
The Fallen Angels and the Heroes of Mythology, the Same with “The Sons Of God” And “The Mighty Men” of the Sixth Chapter of the First Book Of Moses (Dublin: Hodges, Foster, And Figgis, Publishers To The University, 1879 AD) which was written by Rev. John Fleming, A.B. Incumbent of Ventry And Kildrum, Diocese of Ardfert; Rural Dean; and Irish Society’s Missionary.

The issue at hand is the Genesis 6 affair, here are verses 1-5

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Fleming notes:

…for Julius Africanus (ob. 232), as we learn from a fragment of his chronography, preserved by Syncellus, finding in the copies of the Septuagint the reading…as well as that of…in Gen. vi. 2, gives it as his opinion, that ” the descendants of Seth are called the sons of God, on account of the righteous men and patriarchs who have sprung from him, even down to the Saviour himself: but that the descendants of Cain are named the seed of men, as having nothing divine in them,” &c. (Fragments of Africanus and others, translated by the Rev. S. D. F. Salmond, in Clarke’s Ante-Nic. Lib., vol. ix.) This writer, however, as will be shown in a following section, seems to waver between this and the angel-explanation and hesitates decidedly to reject or adopt either of them…

…[some assert] the families of Cain and Seth to have been, in all respects, as distinct from each other, as has been assumed—this should not be allowed to affect the interpretation of the text, which ought to be determined, not by considerations of this kind, but on the grounds of exegesis, in accordance with the rules of grammar, and the usage of the Hebrew language. Especially, if we have reason to conclude that the term Bne-ha-Elohim can be intended only to denote angels, then all such considerations as those referred to, must be regarded as entirely beside the question. [PP. 36, 64]

I noted upfront that the alternate and, historically, late coming view is that the descendants of Seth and Cain are in view within Genesis 6. Now, one may ask why only males from one bloodline and only females from the other? How do two humans mating produce a race of giants? Two humans may produce an offspring with a pituitary gland issue but this is very rare and those with giantism are generally not very agile so as to become “men of renown” (even though back then there was less genetic deterioration in general). Well, once someone begins by denying the contextual identification of the sons of God as Angels then they must follow with denying the contextual identification of their offspring as being giants (of whatever height) and on it goes from there having do deny one contextual identification after the other.

For those unaware, the title of the book gets you up to date as the Nephilim refers to the question of who are ‘The Sons Of God’ And ‘The Mighty Men’ of the Sixth Chapter of the First Book Of Moses aka Genesis and gives a hint as to the conclusion, which is that they are The Fallen Angels who became the Heroes of Mythology. This is a continuation of that which I have already written on the Nephilim, see here.
The book itself if a scholarly work—which you can readily discern as it quotes Greek, Hebrew, Latin, etc. without providing a translation—offering many citations and quotations so as to give a well-rounded view. Although the author has his own conclusion, he labors diligently so as to provide examples of various interpretations of the issue at hand.

But what of the human element in the Genesis 6 affair?

D. J.C.K. Hofmann remarks that ha Adam, as in the Daughters of Men (ha Adam meaning the Adam, the human earth/dirt/dust man), “‘must designate the whole race, not less in verse 2, than in verses 1 and 3, especially as it is said in verse 1, that daughters were born to them…that is, to men generally.’ In short, women of high station, as well as of low, are Bnoth-ha-Adam, and the title can have no other signification than that, which any impartial and unprejudiced reader of the passage would attach to it—Adam’s daughters—his female descendants—womankind. [P. 17]

Now to the Angel element:

The expression [Hebrew for “benei Elohim”] translated in our Authorized Version, “the sons of God,” is found (in addition to Gen; vi. 2, 4) in three places in the book of Job, viz., i. 6, and ii. I.-“There was a day when the sons of God ([Hebrew for “benei Elohim”]) came to present themselves before the Lord”—and xxxviii. 7, “All the sons of God ([Hebrew for “benei Elohim”]) shouted for joy.”

In these passages the LXX [Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament] render the Hebrew by [Greek for “angels”], and all commentators, -ancient and modem, we believe, concur in the opinion that only angels can be meant. It appears, therefore, to be as reasonable as it is natural that we should understand the expression similarly in our passage. [P. 66]

Indeed, the context denotes that in such instances sons of God does refer to Angels. In instances where it does not, we know that it does not for the same reason that we know that it does in this case: context.

…if the occurrence related in this passage of Scripture were, as all are agreed, the cause which ultimately led to the most tremendous judgment with which this world has been visited, little argument is needed to show the propriety of inquiring into the real nature of such an occurrence. To this point the reader’s attention will be directed. [P. viii]

This is stated because it is within Genesis 6, the chapter ultimately in view within John Fleming’s context, ties the sons of God and daughters of men affair with the worldwide flood, the great deluge.

It has been already remarked that Julius Africanus, in the third century, was unwilling absolutely to condemn the angel-explanation. Having given it as his opinion that by “Sons of God” the descendants of Seth are intended, he says ; ”But if it is thought that these refer to angels, we must take them to be those (scil. angels) who deal with magic and jugglery, who taught the women the motions of the stars, and the knowledge of things celestial, by whose power they conceived the giants as their children, by whom wickedness came to its height on the earth, until God decreed that the whole race of the living should perish in their impiety by the Deluge.”—Fragments of Africanus, &c, as at p. 36 [PP.148-149]

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Iceland

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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Fallen angel Nephilim in history

We continued, from part 1, part 2, part 3, considering the issue of the Nephilim via the 1879 AD book The Fallen Angels and the Heroes of Mythology, the Same with “The Sons Of God” And “The Mighty Men” of the Sixth Chapter of the First Book Of Moses (Dublin: Hodges, Foster, And Figgis, Publishers To The University, 1879 AD) by Rev. John Fleming, A.B. Incumbent of Ventry And Kildrum, Diocese of Ardfert; Rural Dean; and Irish Society’s Missionary.

A quotation is provided from “extracts from the Clementina, or Clementine Homilies”:

The Clementina are believed to have been the work of an Alexandrine Jew of the third century, who, for the purpose of procuring them greater authority, ascribed them to the eminent Father Clemens Romanus (ob. cir. A.D. 100), who is represented as travelling with the Apostle Peter, and listening to his discourses, which he is supposed to have, in these Homilies, committed to writing…

“For, of the spirits” (he says, chap. xii.) “who inhabit the heaven, the angels who dwell in the lowest region, being grieved at the ingratitude of men to God, asked that they might come into the life of men, that, really becoming men, by more intercourse they might convict those who had acted ungratefully towards Him, and might subject every one to adequate punishment. When, therefore, their petition was granted, they metamorphosed themselves into every nature ; for being of a more godlike substance, they are able easily to assume any form. So they became precious stones, and goodly pearl, and the most beauteous purple, and choice gold, and all matter that is held in most esteem. And they fell into the hands of some, and into the bosoms of others, and suffered themselves to be stolen by them. They also changed themselves into beasts and reptiles, and fishes and birds, and into whatsoever they pleased. These things also the poets among yourselves, by reason of fearlessness, sing, as they befell, attributing to one the many and diverse doings of all. CHAPTER XIII. But when, having assumed these forms, they convicted as covetous those who stole them, and changed themselves into the nature of men, in order that, living holily, and showing the possibility of so living, they might subject the ungrateful to punishment, yet having become in all respects men, they also partook of human lust, and being brought under its subjection they fell into cohabitation with women, and being involved with them, and sunk in defilement, and altogether emptied of their first power, were unable to turn back to the first purity of their proper nature, their members turned away from their fiery substance, for the fire itself, being extinguished by the weight of lust, [and changed] into flesh, they trode the impious path downward.

For they themselves, being fettered with the bonds of flesh, were constrained and strongly bound; wherefore, they have no more been able to ascend into the heavens.” [PP. 149-150]

John Fleming notes that “The Apostle” apparently the author of the Clementina, “then (chap. xiv.) informs his hearers of that, which appears to have formed part of the original tradition, and which, although not having a foundation in the Biblical narrative” the details of which are:

…angels, wishing to please their mistresses, discovered to them the precious stones and metals which lay hidden in the earth, instructing them, at the same time, in magic, astronomy, and the powers of roots, the melting of gold and silver, the use of dyes, “and all things, in short, which are for the adornment and delight of women. [PP. 150-151]

Such original traditions not having a foundation in the Biblical narrative are also found within the Book of Enoch chap VIII:

And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals [of the earth]and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures.
And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal, [taught] astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, [Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun], and Sariel the course of the moon.

Referencing “Div. lnstitut., lib. II. c. 15” John Fleming relates that Lucius Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (250-325 AD):

…believed that there were two kinds of demons—a genus coeleste and a genus terrenum—the former consisting of the angels who, in the beginning were appointed by God to be guardians on earth of mankind, whom they preserved from the snares of the devil, but who being themselves seduced by that enemy, engaged in unlawful amours, and were, in consequence, consigned to perdition-the latter, the terrestrial demons are the beings (or rather the souls or spirits of these) sprung from the intercourse of those angels with the daughters of men, and possessing a nature partly angelic, partly human.
These spirits, whom he describes as unclean spirits—“spiritus immundi tenues et incomprehensibiles—contaminati ac perditi”—he regards as the inventors of astrology and divination, as the authors of oracular responses-desirous of receiving worship-and, being permitted to wander about the earth, as finding a solace for their own perdition in causing divers evils to mankind. [P. 153]

Others who held to the Angels as sons of God view are noted:

To those already named, may be added Irenaeus, Tatian, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian, in the second century Bardesanes, in the same century, a native of Edessa in Mesopotamia, in his Book of Fate, written in Syriac, is mentioned by Delitzsch. In the third century, Cyprian and Methodius : and in the fourth, Ambrose, bishop of Milan, and Sulpitius Severns. Eusebius of Caesarea is also included in the number of those early Christian writers, who believed the Sons of God to be angels. [P. 154]

John Flemming also includes the following to the list of those who support this view, “Ludovicus Capellus, Herder, Augusti, Schneckenberger, Jachmann, De Wette, Arnaud, Stier, Huther. We might add Delitszch, Kurtz, Richers, Maitland, and others” (P. 175).

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.

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page
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Zuism

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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myth

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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Maskína

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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Pagan

Pray tell, what do Atheists do every Christmas?

And I mean besides telling anyone who (does not) care to listen, that it is all so very stupid—and besides raking in the presents from mommy and daddy?

They, like the mainstream media, get foaming at the mouth ravenously angry at Christians enjoying themselves and so they hit the airwaves, cyberspace, print media, etc. in order to inform us that, you guessed it, Christmas (and Easter) are Pagan—because for some reason this has something or other to do with Atheism.

Now, as you can see in the following, this is not true in either case:

Olympic

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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Nanna

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Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
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Read the article about which Gary Habermas, PhD (Distinguished Research Professor & Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary) said, “I have hung on to it since you sent it, & plan to keep doing so”: Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations.

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