Greg Koukl on pro-abortion “logic”

CHRISTIANITY
Christianity

Apologetics

Bible

God – Theology

Problem of Evil – Theodicy

Jesus

Nephilim – Giants

Serpent Seed

Satanic Serpent & Dragon

Angels

Cherubim & Seraphim

Satan / Devil

Demons

Miracles

Inspirational

Unbelievers Compliment Christianity

Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.

Gospel of Judas

The Lost Tomb of Jesus

————-
ATHEISM
Atheism

New Atheists

Project-Answering Atheism

Richard Dawkins

Sam Harris

Christopher Hitchens

Dan Barker

Daniel Dennett

Bart Ehrman

Bill Maher

PZ Myers

Quentin Smith

Michael Shermer

John Loftus

Ricky Gervais

Raphael Lataster

Carl Sagan

Atheism’s Public Relations Problems

Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards

Atheist Child Rearing

Atheist Charity

American Atheists

American Humanist Association

The Skeptic Arena

ExChristian.Net

PositiveAtheism.org

Evilbible.com

Science Club of Long Island

Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

Capella’s Guide to Atheism

The BOBA Digest

————-
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)

Baha’i

Islam

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Mormonism

Catholicism

Scientology – Dianetics – L. Ron Hubbard

Unitarian Universalism

Misc. Religions

————-
FRINGE-OLOGY
Transhumanism

UFOs and Aliens

Conspiracy theories, Illuminati, New World Order (NWO), etc.

Occult, Witchcraft, Magick, satanism, etc.

Satanic Crime

Postgender Androgyny, Hermaphroditism & Beyond

————-
SCIENCE
Science

Creation Science

Intelligent Design

Cosmology

Evolution

The Wedgie Document

————-
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism

The Crusades

Morality / Ethics

Abortion

Rape

Meaning and Purpose

Homosexuality

Debates

Pop Culture and Politics

————-
RESOURCES
Fitness

Audio

Books

TFT essay “Books”

Debate

Links

Video

Movies

Find it Fast – Fast Facts

Visuals – Illustrations and Photos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

VIDEO: Building Yucca Mountain’s deep underground lab

CHRISTIANITY
Christianity

Apologetics

Bible

God – Theology

Problem of Evil – Theodicy

Jesus

Nephilim – Giants

Serpent Seed

Satanic Serpent & Dragon

Angels

Cherubim & Seraphim

Satan / Devil

Demons

Miracles

Inspirational

Unbelievers Compliment Christianity

Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.

Gospel of Judas

The Lost Tomb of Jesus

————-
ATHEISM
Atheism

New Atheists

Project-Answering Atheism

Richard Dawkins

Sam Harris

Christopher Hitchens

Dan Barker

Daniel Dennett

Bart Ehrman

Bill Maher

PZ Myers

Quentin Smith

Michael Shermer

John Loftus

Ricky Gervais

Raphael Lataster

Carl Sagan

Atheism’s Public Relations Problems

Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards

Atheist Child Rearing

Atheist Charity

American Atheists

American Humanist Association

The Skeptic Arena

ExChristian.Net

PositiveAtheism.org

Evilbible.com

Science Club of Long Island

Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

Capella’s Guide to Atheism

The BOBA Digest

————-
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)

Baha’i

Islam

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Mormonism

Catholicism

Scientology – Dianetics – L. Ron Hubbard

Unitarian Universalism

Misc. Religions

————-
FRINGE-OLOGY
Transhumanism

UFOs and Aliens

Conspiracy theories, Illuminati, New World Order (NWO), etc.

Occult, Witchcraft, Magick, satanism, etc.

Satanic Crime

Postgender Androgyny, Hermaphroditism & Beyond

————-
SCIENCE
Science

Creation Science

Intelligent Design

Cosmology

Evolution

The Wedgie Document

————-
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism

The Crusades

Morality / Ethics

Abortion

Rape

Meaning and Purpose

Homosexuality

Debates

Pop Culture and Politics

————-
RESOURCES
Fitness

Audio

Books

TFT essay “Books”

Debate

Links

Video

Movies

Find it Fast – Fast Facts

Visuals – Illustrations and Photos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bart Ehrman’s Problem, part 2

We now continue and conclude considering the Greer-Heard Forum of 2008 AD as we focus on the participation of Dan Wallace (Dallas Theological Seminary) and Bart Ehrman (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) as I glean from the reports of the forum written by Ed Komoszewski from the theology blog Parchment and Pen; part 1 and part 2.

One of Bart Ehrman’s favored claim to substantive and problematic variants, or corruptions, (one of what he admits is very, very few) is Mark 1:41 which reads, starting at v. 40,

Now a leper came to Him, imploring Him, kneeling down to Him and saying to Him, “If You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus, moved with ______________ [something], stretched out His hand and touched him, and said to him, “I am willing; be cleansed.”

Ehrman claims that the reading—the one that he likes and then finds evidence to support—is that Jesus was “moved with anger” while most translations read that He had “compassion” or “pity.”
Firstly, let us not deny that anger is a virtue when, and only when, it is properly expressed about the proper situation and at the proper object—righteous anger, as it has been termed (see the essay On God’s Odd Attributes).

Furthermore, considering that Mark 1:41 is one of Ehrman’s pseudo-silver bullets, James White notes (Bart Ehrman’s Consistent Inconsistency):

I do not agree with Ehrman (or with Dan Wallace, who agrees with Ehrman’s arguments on this verse) regarding Mark 1:41. I just don’t believe D is a sound enough witness to support overthrowing the entirety of the rest of the manuscript tradition. But it is interesting to note that in Florida, when I first met Bart Ehrman, I informed him that I would be presenting a paper on Mark 1:41 and Hebrews 2:9 the next day in the afternoon. He did not bother to come. Now, if I were debating someone, say, on the doctrines of grace, and they informed me that just a few hours before our debate they were going to be presenting a paper, say, on John 6:37-45 and Ephesians 1:3-11, I think I’d show up if invited, for the obvious reason that I’d like to know what my opponent’s position was going to be.

I would do that even if I felt quite confident in my position, simply for the sake of the audience that would be listening to the debate. The better you understand the person you are dealing with, the more useful the debate will probably be. But, clearly, I debate for very different reasons than Bart Ehrman.

As for the text itself, sure there is righteous anger but why would Jesus be angry within this context? The answer to the question of context is also a clue as to the original reading. As to the question of textual criticism, James White notes that James Bentley wrote the following in Secrets of Mout Sinai (1986, pp. 132 and 133):

in the first chapter of Mark’s Gospel we are told of a leper who says to Jesus, ‘If you will, you can make me clean’. Codex Sinaiticus continues, Jesus, ‘angry, stretched out his hand and touched him, and said, “I will; be clean”‘. Later manuscripts, perceiving that to attribute anger to Jesus at this point made him appear, perhaps, too human, alter the word ‘angry’ to ‘moved with compassion’.

White comments:

The text referred to is Mark 1:41, which reads in a [“a” refers to Codex Siniaticus], “Moved with compassion, he stretched out His hand and touched him, and said to him, ‘I am willing; be cleansed.'” I have a photo-mechanical reprint of a in my library, prepared by [Constantin von] Tischendorf himself, and I checked it as well: it reads splagcqeis, “moved with compassion.”
Bentley is simply in error. There is a textual variant here that reads “angered,” but it is found in D and a very small number of other less important witnesses. I suppose it is possible Bentley simply misread a textual source somewhere, but to start out your demonstration of purposeful emendation with the scholarly equivalent of a face-plant in figure skating is ominous.

Back to Dan Wallace at the forum:

we could move toward greater certainty by observing what Matthew and Luke did with Mark. He used Mark 1:41 as a test-case, and enlisted Ehrman’s treatment of this in his argument. Here the text either says that Jesus was compassionate or angry when he healed a leper. Wallace noted that Matthew and Luke don’t have either word, but since they drop references to Jesus’ anger elsewhere while maintaining statements about Jesus’ compassion, Mark almost surely said that Jesus was angry in this place. If he had said that Jesus was compassionate, Matthew and Luke would surely have mentioned it. To borrow a cliche, their silence was deafening.
But Wallace showed that, by using one of Ehrman’s favorite examples, textual critics are presupposing that we can get back essentially to the author’s words in order to do both redaction and textual criticism. Even Ehrman assumed this! And the fact that Wallace used an example from Mark—which Ehrman underscored as a book that had very few early copies, and thus could have been changed radically before it was found in our extant copies—showed that Ehrman’s skepticism about Mark in particular was unfounded.

Wallace even mentioned p. 135 of Misquoting Jesus, where Ehrman had argued that even though we don’t have any second century copies of Mark, we do have books written within twenty years of Mark that utilize Mark…

As for getting back to the originals,

Wallace then discussed the concrete example of the relation of P75 to Codex B. He noted that although B came 100-150 years later, it was not a copy of P75 because it frequently had older readings than those found in P75. This meant that, since these two manuscripts are very close in wording to each other, both had a much older ancestor.

Let us end with something I touched upon in the essay Accurately Quoting Bart Ehrman, part 4 Bart Ehrman does not bother reading criticisms and does not respond to them except when he reads them and responds to them—the evidence is that he tends to ignore his critics. Let us consider his scholarly honesty further as he writes:

I understand the arguments of people like James [White] and Dan Wallace, but sometimes, you know, they don’t make sense to me, even though I intellectually understand them. Dan Wallace, whom he keeps quoting, insists that in fact differences don’t matter in the manuscript. Well if the differences don’t matter, why is it that he is undertaking a major project dealing with Greek manuscripts…Of course they matter!

Dan Wallace responded:

In brief, every point you make about what I hold to is false. And you know this. When we dialogued at the Greer-Heard Forum last year, you raised most of the same points. You accused me of thinking that textual variants are not significant. Yet, at one point in our dialogue, you came significantly closer to accurately representing my views. You said, “Dan pointed out that 99% of these variants don’t matter. Only one percent matter.” Yes, I would say that as much as 1% of the textual variants are both viable and meaningful. But the only criterion I was using on whether they were significant was that of meaning in the text. Yet just a few minutes later in our dialogue last April you asked, “Why study these textual variants if they don’t matter?…That point was meant to suggest that I considered the variants to be as unimportant as these protases suggested.

Bart, you’ve repeated that same accusation in your debate with James White earlier this year, and you’ve repeated it in this thread. But my response to you at the Greer-Heard Forum was this: “I never said that they didn’t affect anything. I said they don’t affect major doctrines. I do think that they affect the interpretation of the text and very seriously so, and that’s why I spend so much time in textual criticism. That is exactly the reason I do it, which is the reason that you had suggested…I am baffled as to how you could misrepresent my views so completely when I said TO YOU, before 800 witnesses, that the variants do matter…

you have reversed my argument. I have argued that no viable variant affects any cardinal doctrine. So, my point is that textual variants are very important, but not so important that a cardinal doctrine of the Christian faith depends on suspect texts. You agreed with me on that statement at Greer-Heard. But I never said that it would not be important if somehow several books of the NT were suddenly lost! I agree with you: that would be extremely important and a tragic loss. Where do you get the idea that I thought otherwise?

James White adds that “He was plainly corrected in Florida [during their debate], to be sure.”

To be sure indeed, Bart Ehrman is emotive, iconoclastic, rebellious, studious, exciting and celebrity yet, his conclusions, being premised upon emotional preferences, leave much to be desired and offer much to be discredited.

‹ Bart Ehrman’s Millions and Millions of Variants, part 2 of 2 up

On William Branham’s sermon “The Serpent’s Seed”

William Branham (1909-1967 AD) preached a sermon titled “The Serpent’s Seed” (on September 28, 1958 AD at the Branham Tabernacle, Jeffersonville, Indiana, USA). The portion of the sermon that touches upon our serpent seed of Satan theory is introduces by William Branham noting:

…turn with me now over into the book of Genesis at the 3rd chapter. If you want to know anything, I can show you in this book of Genesis where every cult, and every ism, and everything that we got right today, begin in Genesis. How many know that “Genesis” means “the beginning”? Certainly. We find the Catholic church in the beginning: Babylon, Nimrod the founder; we find it in the middle of the Bible; we find it at the last of the Bible. We find, trying to bring in women preachers in the beginning of the Bible by worshipping little statues made out of roots.

How many have read Hislop’s, “Two Babylons,” the history? All right. Find out in these histories they had a woman. And then you remember even Jacob stole his father’s gods, and his daughter hid them under her. And took them out there in the wilderness, which defiled the camp later on.

He is continuing the context of his sermon with regards to Revelation 17’s reference to the symbolic woman riding the beast. Unfortunatly, he is appealing to a book that has been largely discredited; see my previous article Babylon mystery religion and Alexander Hislop’s “The Two Baylons”.

Now, let us see to what conclusions he came:

All right. Let’s read now in Genesis. Now, the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, has God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? … the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden, God has said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day that ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened,… (See? Hunting new light.)… and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. See, how these fellows are today trying to take away from the Bible. “Why, isn’t it just as easy to pour, or sprinkle, this way or that way?” No, sir. God put down a program, and that’s what we’re supposed to follow, This. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to make–to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he did eat.

And their eyes of them both were opened, and they knew… they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made them aprons.

At this point he states, “I would like to stop here for a minute” and discusses how “there’s got to be a beginning of everything” and how first, “God was making the earth…He was laying the building…He was making your body,” etc.

He gets back to our serpent seed of Satan theory by stating:

This man, when he was created, God separated his spirit, and He took a piece off the man, his side, and made a woman out of it. And then He took the feminish, dainty spirit of the man and made a woman out of it, and He made the man masculine, burly…

Well, Eve was made from Adam’s side, from his rib, but I am unsure as to where William Branham got the concept of a feminish, dainty spirit.

He continues thusly:

Now, when this woman, He made him a helpmate, and she was to be his helpmate. And then. Now, here I’ve never had a preacher to agree with this yet. And they try to make it some other way, but yet it don’t make sense to me. They try to say that Adam and Eve eat some apples. Brother, if—I don’t say this for a joke now, but I want to say it for—If eating apples makes women realize they are naked, we’d better pass the apples again. You know that’s right.

Well no, this was not about apples because the Bible merely refers to “fruit” but his point is beyond pomology as he continues by stating:

You know eating an apple, that wasn’t what they did, made them realize they were naked. Certainly, it wasn’t. It had to come through sexually. It had to be, ’cause they realized they were naked when they taken this forbidden fruit.
Ain’t a woman a fruit tree? Aren’t you the fruit of your mother? That was the fruit that was forbidden to be taken.

From here he talks about fossils and scientists seeking the ancestry of humanity. He gets back to the point by noting that a certain Dr. DeHaan holds that:

…when the sons of God saw the daughters of men were fair—He takes Josephus’ stand and say that they pressed themselves into human flesh and taken unto them wives; and there were giants in the land of Nod; and they had taken to themselves wives and lived with them, when the sons of God, fallen angels, taken and seen the daughters of men, and the sex desire was such a great thing, and yet them being sinful from falling, they pressed themselves into human flesh.

Branham follows up with:

If they’d do that, they’d spoil Divine healing, they’d spoil everything else. If the devil can create, he’s equal with God. The devil cannot create. I want you to show me one place where the devil can create. He cannot create. He only perverts what has been created. He is no creator. He is only a perverter. Well then, what happened? What’s? Here’s my version. Here’s the missing link.

He then goes on to talk about how, for example, “you can’t breed a chimpanzee with a woman and bring forth a child,” etc.

Back to the point, he believes that Satan, the serpent, is the missing link:

I believe, and can support it by the Bible, that it is the serpent that did it. The serpent is that missing person between the chimpanzee and the man, ’cause, listen, notice this now, that the serpent was not a reptile. He was the most subtil of all the beasts of the field.

He then gets into dictionary definition of subtil and how the serpent “was not a reptile. The curse made him a reptile” and gets back to the main point thusly:

Now, watch the serpent, this serpent which was first. Let’s draw a picture of him now. He’s a great big fellow. He’s between the chimpanzee and the man. And the serpent, the devil, Lucifer, knew that that was the only blood that would mix with this human blood. The only person he could deal with—he couldn’t deal with the chimpanzee. That blood wouldn’t mix. He couldn’t deal with different things. He couldn’t deal with the sheep. He couldn’t deal with the horse. He couldn’t deal with any animal. He had to deal with this serpent.
Let’s take him now and see what he looks like: Great big fellow, prehistoric giant. That’s where they find these big bones, and I’ll show you this in the Bible. Now, watch closely then. All right. This great big fellow, let’s say he was—he was ten foot tall, great big shoulders, looked just like a man. And his blood, after coming down, coinciding one animal to another.

Let us pause a moment as it is unclear whence he is getting the mental picture of the serpent, the devil, Lucifer being a “great big fellow…between the chimpanzee and the man…prehistoric giant…ten foot tall, great big shoulders, looked just like a man.”
Revelation chapters 12 and 20 provide a very useful statement, “the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan” thus, dragon, serpent, etc. do not refer to different animals just like the words devil and satan mean accuser and adversary.
See my article On satan, divination and metal to see how one Hebrew word makes reference to serpent, to divination and to brazen copper. Also, as per Ezekiel 28:14 Satan is a Cherub and thus, appears to have a basic humanoid form with four wings and four faces: man, lion, ox/bull and eagle/vulture (see Ezekiel 10).

William Branham continues:

How many know that science can’t find the missing link? All of you know that. Why? Here he is, the serpent. Here he was a great big fellow. And the devil comes down. Now, he says, “I can inspire.” Now, when you go to looking at women and actions of women, remember you are anointed of the devil, if it’s not your own wife. Notice. Now, the devil come down and got into the serpent, and he found Eve in the garden of Eden naked. And he talked about the fruit in the midst, the “midst” means “middle” and so forth. You understand in a mixed congregation. And he said, “Now, it’s pleasant. It’s good to the eye.”
What did he do? He begin making love to Eve. And he lived with her as a husband. And she saw it was pleasant, so she went and told her husband; but she was already pregnant by Satan. And she brought forth her first son whose name was Cain, the son of Satan.

So we finally come to the bottom line of the serpent see of Satan theory: Eve became pregnant by Satan and she birthed Satan’s literal offspring, Cain. For some reason, after elucidating that two different species cannot conceive and produce offspring, he claims that the devil come down and got into the serpent and somehow a literal serpent’s sperm was able to fertilize Eve’s egg.

In any regard, he continued thusly:

“Now,” you say, “that’s wrong.” All right, we’ll just find out whether it’s wrong or not. “And I will put enmity between thy seed and the serpent’s seed.” What? The serpent’s seed. She had a seed, and he had a seed. “And he shall bruise thy head, and you shall bruise his heel.” A “bruise” there means “to make an atonement.” Now, there’s your seed of the serpent. Now, notice, here comes these two men out.

Now, this serpent, when he stood there—this great big giant of a fellow stood up there. He was guilty of committing adultery with Adam’s wife. Where’s sin lay today? What makes things the way they are today? (Now, I—Surely you can catch what I’m talking about.)

At this point the issue is the seed about which Galatians 3:16 gives us a clue in stating, “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” The seed of the woman and the seed of Abraham is a reference to an ultimate confrontation; the serpent’s seed will strike the woman’s seed’s heel—an apparent reference to when Judas betrayed Jesus after Satan entered into Judas (Luke 22:3)—but the woman’s seed will crush the serpent itself—an apparent reference to when Jesus condemns Satan to hell (Revelation 20:10) where Satan will not rule but will be tormented himself.

The New Testament tells us exactly who are “the children of the devil” in 1 John 3 and they are “whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God” and also “neither he that loveth not his brother.” It even references that “Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother” and note how very specific the Bible is in that it even provides a Q&A on this very topic, “And wherefore slew he him?” because he was the genetically physical serpent seed of Satan who had sex with Eve? No, rather, “Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.” This is all about actions and not about genetics.
Also, I do not know whence he got the idea that bruise “means ‘to make an atonement.’” He also states that “She said, ‘The serpent beguiled me.’ Do you know what ‘beguile’ means? Means ‘defiled.’ The devil never gave her an apple. ‘The serpent has beguiled me.’ And then the curse came.”
I also do not know whence he got this idea as the Hebrew nasha’ (Strong’s H5377) simply means to beguile and to deceive. On the other hand, it is tame’ (Strong’s H2930) which refers to becoming unclean, becoming impure in a sexual, religious or ceremonial manner (as an FYI: the KJV translates this term as follows: unclean 74x, defile 71x, pollute 14x, uncleanness 1x, utterly 1x).

Just as he did with references to an apple, Branham continues, for what it is worth, by loosely paraphrasing Genesis:

He said, “Because you listened to the serpent in the stead of your husband, you took life from the world; and you—now you’ll multiply your sorrows, and your conception shall be to your husband,” and so forth. “And because you listened to your wife instead of me—I took you from the dust the highest specie—back to the dust you go.” “And serpent, because you did that, off goes your legs; upon your belly you’ll go all the days of your life. And you’ll be hated, and dust shall be your meat.” There you are. There’s that missing link.

Branham then focuses on Cain, “Now, here comes Cain. Let’s watch the natures. Here comes Cain. What is he? He’s a shrewd businessman. He tills the fields: smart, intelligent, religious, very religious. Watch his—watch his attributes now.” Since part of Branham’s purpose is to trace Satan to eventual denominations, he proposes even more elaborate and unfounded paraphrases (it would be nice if he could just read the text; especially during a sermon), he states that Cain:

…wants to go to church. He builds him a church, makes him an offering, brings an altar along—builded an altar, puts his flowers on it, put the field–the fruits of the field, offered it to God, and said, “There You are, Lord. I know we ate apples. That’s what caused it.” (Some of his offsets have the same kind of an idea. Shows where it came from.) Brought his apples in out of the field, laid them on there, said, “This will make an atonement.” God said, “It wasn’t apples.” But by spiritual revelation Abel knew it was blood. So he brought a lamb, hacked its throat, and it died; and God said, “That’s right. That’s what done it. It was blood.” (You know what blood I’m talking about.) All right. It was blood that did it. Now, watch.

Note that his mistaken reference to the forbidden fruit being an apple leads to further mistaken statements about Cain offering God apple. In turn this leads to a convenient but contrived conclusion that God denies that it was an apple that Satan beguiled Eve into eating. Yet, this is not because it was not, in fact, an apple but, rather, an unspecified and defined fruit but because, as per Branham; apple means sex.
Of course, if an apple is really sex then just what did Cain offer to God (according to Branham’s retelling, of course)?

So, Cain murders Abel because, as Branham puts it, “Cain saw his holy-roller brother had been accepted before God…he got jealous of him” and he continues thusly:

He was a murderer. Could you call God a murderer? And Adam was the son of God. The Bible said that Adam was the son of God, that pure beginning back there. Adam was God’s son, and that jealousy and envy and everything could not come out of that pure stream. It had to come through another place. And it come through Satan, who was a murderer to begin with. The Bible said he was: a liar and a murderer to begin with. There it is. And he killed his brother.

Serpent seed of Satan theorists tend to rely on proposing implications and claiming that the only answer to their proposed conundrum is the serpent seed of Satan theory. Now, if Cain could not have been of Adam because he sinned then of whom was Adam because, after all, he too sinned; the original sin. Adam was of God but did sin and Cain was of Adam and did sin—period.

William Branham also, unfoundedly, claims that “If his [Cain’s] daddy was a great big giant of a fellow, what would Cain be like? His daddy…He went to the land of Nod…there’s where they found those great big giants, which were fallen sons of God who came through their daddy, the devil through Cain. There’s your missing link.”
He makes this claim because serpent seed of Satan theorists tend to interpret the sons of God in Genesis 6 as being humans from the line of Cain who married the daughters of men from the line of Seth.
Yet, as per Job 1:6 and 2:8 the sons of God, in the Old Testament, are Angels (and the daughters of men are simply human women).

It is interesting that many who, along with the early church leaders, deny that the Genesis 6 affair pertain to the lines of Cain and Seth (and why only males from Cain’s and females from Seth’s) often note that there is no reason why giants should be the result of marriage between an ungodly man and a godly woman. Now we see why Braham invented the reason that Cain’s father was a giant being possessed by Satan; so that he could then invent the explanation that the result was giants because Cain and his father were giants.

Braham then states, “watch the seed of the serpent…Remember the seed of the serpent is religious” and seeks to trace Cain’s Satanic bloodline down through the ages as his greater context is explaining whence come denominations. Ultimately, he notes, “What was the seed of the serpent? Adultery. You follow it? Adultery with Eve.”

What we have seen are attempts to claim the revealing of a mystery but which turns out me merely me giving the appearance of doing such while really only engaging in fanciful story telling peppered with made up, invented, points.

Was Noah’s Ark Found—Again?!?!

CHRISTIANITY
Christianity

Apologetics

Bible

God – Theology

Problem of Evil – Theodicy

Jesus

Nephilim – Giants

Serpent Seed

Satanic Serpent & Dragon

Angels

Cherubim & Seraphim

Satan / Devil

Demons

Miracles

Inspirational

Unbelievers Compliment Christianity

Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.

Gospel of Judas

The Lost Tomb of Jesus

————-
ATHEISM
Atheism

New Atheists

Project-Answering Atheism

Richard Dawkins

Sam Harris

Christopher Hitchens

Dan Barker

Daniel Dennett

Bart Ehrman

Bill Maher

PZ Myers

Quentin Smith

Michael Shermer

John Loftus

Ricky Gervais

Raphael Lataster

Carl Sagan

Atheism’s Public Relations Problems

Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards

Atheist Child Rearing

Atheist Charity

American Atheists

American Humanist Association

The Skeptic Arena

ExChristian.Net

PositiveAtheism.org

Evilbible.com

Science Club of Long Island

Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

Capella’s Guide to Atheism

The BOBA Digest

————-
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)

Baha’i

Islam

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Mormonism

Catholicism

Scientology – Dianetics – L. Ron Hubbard

Unitarian Universalism

Misc. Religions

————-
FRINGE-OLOGY
Transhumanism

UFOs and Aliens

Conspiracy theories, Illuminati, New World Order (NWO), etc.

Occult, Witchcraft, Magick, satanism, etc.

Satanic Crime

Postgender Androgyny, Hermaphroditism & Beyond

————-
SCIENCE
Science

Creation Science

Intelligent Design

Cosmology

Evolution

The Wedgie Document

————-
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism

The Crusades

Morality / Ethics

Abortion

Rape

Meaning and Purpose

Homosexuality

Debates

Pop Culture and Politics

————-
RESOURCES
Fitness

Audio

Books

TFT essay “Books”

Debate

Links

Video

Movies

Find it Fast – Fast Facts

Visuals – Illustrations and Photos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The “Darwin’s Dilemma” Censorship Scandal Continues

CHRISTIANITY
Christianity

Apologetics

Bible

God – Theology

Problem of Evil – Theodicy

Jesus

Nephilim – Giants

Serpent Seed

Satanic Serpent & Dragon

Angels

Cherubim & Seraphim

Satan / Devil

Demons

Miracles

Inspirational

Unbelievers Compliment Christianity

Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.

Gospel of Judas

The Lost Tomb of Jesus

————-
ATHEISM
Atheism

New Atheists

Project-Answering Atheism

Richard Dawkins

Sam Harris

Christopher Hitchens

Dan Barker

Daniel Dennett

Bart Ehrman

Bill Maher

PZ Myers

Quentin Smith

Michael Shermer

John Loftus

Ricky Gervais

Raphael Lataster

Carl Sagan

Atheism’s Public Relations Problems

Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards

Atheist Child Rearing

Atheist Charity

American Atheists

American Humanist Association

The Skeptic Arena

ExChristian.Net

PositiveAtheism.org

Evilbible.com

Science Club of Long Island

Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

Capella’s Guide to Atheism

The BOBA Digest

————-
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)

Baha’i

Islam

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Mormonism

Catholicism

Scientology – Dianetics – L. Ron Hubbard

Unitarian Universalism

Misc. Religions

————-
FRINGE-OLOGY
Transhumanism

UFOs and Aliens

Conspiracy theories, Illuminati, New World Order (NWO), etc.

Occult, Witchcraft, Magick, satanism, etc.

Satanic Crime

Postgender Androgyny, Hermaphroditism & Beyond

————-
SCIENCE
Science

Creation Science

Intelligent Design

Cosmology

Evolution

The Wedgie Document

————-
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism

The Crusades

Morality / Ethics

Abortion

Rape

Meaning and Purpose

Homosexuality

Debates

Pop Culture and Politics

————-
RESOURCES
Fitness

Audio

Books

TFT essay “Books”

Debate

Links

Video

Movies

Find it Fast – Fast Facts

Visuals – Illustrations and Photos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Truthbomb Apologetics is Da Bomb – Free Ebooks

CHRISTIANITY
Christianity

Apologetics

Bible

God – Theology

Problem of Evil – Theodicy

Jesus

Nephilim – Giants

Serpent Seed

Satanic Serpent & Dragon

Angels

Cherubim & Seraphim

Satan / Devil

Demons

Miracles

Inspirational

Unbelievers Compliment Christianity

Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.

Gospel of Judas

The Lost Tomb of Jesus

————-
ATHEISM
Atheism

New Atheists

Project-Answering Atheism

Richard Dawkins

Sam Harris

Christopher Hitchens

Dan Barker

Daniel Dennett

Bart Ehrman

Bill Maher

PZ Myers

Quentin Smith

Michael Shermer

John Loftus

Ricky Gervais

Raphael Lataster

Carl Sagan

Atheism’s Public Relations Problems

Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards

Atheist Child Rearing

Atheist Charity

American Atheists

American Humanist Association

The Skeptic Arena

ExChristian.Net

PositiveAtheism.org

Evilbible.com

Science Club of Long Island

Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

Capella’s Guide to Atheism

The BOBA Digest

————-
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)

Baha’i

Islam

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Mormonism

Catholicism

Scientology – Dianetics – L. Ron Hubbard

Unitarian Universalism

Misc. Religions

————-
FRINGE-OLOGY
Transhumanism

UFOs and Aliens

Conspiracy theories, Illuminati, New World Order (NWO), etc.

Occult, Witchcraft, Magick, satanism, etc.

Satanic Crime

Postgender Androgyny, Hermaphroditism & Beyond

————-
SCIENCE
Science

Creation Science

Intelligent Design

Cosmology

Evolution

The Wedgie Document

————-
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism

The Crusades

Morality / Ethics

Abortion

Rape

Meaning and Purpose

Homosexuality

Debates

Pop Culture and Politics

————-
RESOURCES
Fitness

Audio

Books

TFT essay “Books”

Debate

Links

Video

Movies

Find it Fast – Fast Facts

Visuals – Illustrations and Photos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The God I Don’t Understand: Reflection on Tough Questions of Faith

CHRISTIANITY
Christianity

Apologetics

Bible

God – Theology

Problem of Evil – Theodicy

Jesus

Nephilim – Giants

Serpent Seed

Satanic Serpent & Dragon

Angels

Cherubim & Seraphim

Satan / Devil

Demons

Miracles

Inspirational

Unbelievers Compliment Christianity

Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.

Gospel of Judas

The Lost Tomb of Jesus

————-
ATHEISM
Atheism

New Atheists

Project-Answering Atheism

Richard Dawkins

Sam Harris

Christopher Hitchens

Dan Barker

Daniel Dennett

Bart Ehrman

Bill Maher

PZ Myers

Quentin Smith

Michael Shermer

John Loftus

Ricky Gervais

Raphael Lataster

Carl Sagan

Atheism’s Public Relations Problems

Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards

Atheist Child Rearing

Atheist Charity

American Atheists

American Humanist Association

The Skeptic Arena

ExChristian.Net

PositiveAtheism.org

Evilbible.com

Science Club of Long Island

Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

Capella’s Guide to Atheism

The BOBA Digest

————-
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)

Baha’i

Islam

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Mormonism

Catholicism

Scientology – Dianetics – L. Ron Hubbard

Unitarian Universalism

Misc. Religions

————-
FRINGE-OLOGY
Transhumanism

UFOs and Aliens

Conspiracy theories, Illuminati, New World Order (NWO), etc.

Occult, Witchcraft, Magick, satanism, etc.

Satanic Crime

Postgender Androgyny, Hermaphroditism & Beyond

————-
SCIENCE
Science

Creation Science

Intelligent Design

Cosmology

Evolution

The Wedgie Document

————-
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism

The Crusades

Morality / Ethics

Abortion

Rape

Meaning and Purpose

Homosexuality

Debates

Pop Culture and Politics

————-
RESOURCES
Fitness

Audio

Books

TFT essay “Books”

Debate

Links

Video

Movies

Find it Fast – Fast Facts

Visuals – Illustrations and Photos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Speaking of Assiduous Absconders…Yet Again, Vox Day Challenges PZ Myers to Debate

Interestingly enough, having noted that since some atheists refuse to debate “creationists” but then go on to debate some of those people but not others, it is clear that they are, in reality, being selective and making excuses for absconding from difficulties (even though he is so very, very wrong at least the same cannot be said of Christopher Hitchens).

scottnay-9475435

I suppose that if evolution had not done away with it, PZ Myers could have absconded from another debate with his tail between his legs. In his post, So, how about that debate, PZ? Vox Day reiterates his challenge to debate:

Directly contra his past excuse-making, PZ Myers has reversed himself and decided that he is willing to engage in public debates with Unworthy Opponents again. Debates sponsored by Christian radio stations, no less! So, how about that public radio debate on the evidence for gods that Northern Alliance Radio is willing to host, PZ? Or even one on the scientific evidence for evolution? Or, in light of the very public unmasking of the AGW/CC charade, we could debate your manifestly unscientific belief in “global warming” aka “climate change”.

myersnay-6855042

After all, an internationally known skeptic who appears regularly on radio shows around the world thanks to a series of correct economic and financial forecasts can’t possibly be less of a Worthy Opponent than an erstwhile Jehovah’s Witness and Intelligent Design enthusiast, right?

Let us see, thus far, as I can recall from the top of my noggin; Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Dawkins, Eugene Scott and PZ Myers flatly refused to debate “creationists” which is a category into which they fallaciously place Intelligent Design theorists and probably atheists such as Francis Crick and agnostics such as David Berlinski. They have provided quaint excuses for, at the same time, being alleged champions of reason and science whilst not debating their views against the superstitious and ignorant.

gouldnay-3583011

Initially, (via his post Sorry, Vox, I Don’t Debate Crazy Pipsqueaks Any More) PZ Myers refused to debate the issue of the existence of god(s) by claiming that he only tackles weak arguments for the existence of god(s) because there are no strong arguments. Vox Day invited him to debate the issue on the Northern Alliance Radio Show but Myers turned down the debate by referring to Day by various ad hominems, stating that he actually read more than a couple of chapters of Day’s book The Irrational Atheist and putting down conservative radio in general (apparently referring to Vox Day as odious, christofascist misogynist, beneficiary of wingnut welfare, prominent freakshow participant, insane babbler is some form of refutation in PZ Myer’s mind).1

dawkinsnay-3648726

Yet, since Myers has gone on to “engage in public debates with Unworthy Opponents…sponsored by Christian radio stations” the challenge is again presented.

It is no wonder that the New (and Old) atheist are so shockingly wrong so stunningly often. They have their fans that follow behind cleaning up their messes and excusing any and everything. Such was the case with Myers and his screechy monkeys who congratulate him to no end for cowering away from a debate again someone whom they consider easier to topple than a straw man.

Lastly, there is, at least, one topic that Vox Day will not debate and this is an interesting point:

Unfortunately, I can’t offer him a debate on teaching intelligent design in science classes because I don’t believe it should be taught there either. Nor, for that matter should evolution by natural selection. In fact, I believe the very notion of science classes for the great majority of students is eminently absurd. We know the American schools cannot teach reading, writing, logic, and personal finance to the great majority of their students, so it is easy to demonstrate that there is neither reason nor evidence to support the notion that the schools are capable of effectively teaching science of any kind.

Send in the Clowns – Richard Dawkins Obliges

“…send in the clowns. Don’t bother – they’re here”
—Stephen Sondheim

Robert Fulford wrote:

Why is Richard Dawkins, of all people, acting like a fool? On the subject of evolution, he argues with wondrous self-assurance and a brilliant command of detail. He’s established himself as his generation’s finest author on the human sciences and (in many opinions) the most effective popular science writer in the world. But he’s turned himself into a clown, and damaged his reputation, by supporting the grotesque scheme to have Pope Benedict XVI arrested for “crimes against humanity” when he visits Britain in September.1

This is actually a very tightly packaged statement, let us parse it:
Why is Richard Dawkins, of all people, acting like a fool?
Why “of all people,” I cannot discern as there does not seem to have been a time when Richard Dawkins did not make a public spectacle of himself. Whether he is likening any and everyone with whom he disagrees to Hitler (including a Rabbi, for details in general see this link) and Nazis in general or stating that anyone who doubts, even doubts, that human beings are related to “turnips and bananas” are to be likened to Holocaust deniers (see here). He has always begged for attention via appeals to outrage and outrageousness.

On the subject of evolution…He’s…the most effective popular science writer in the world. Let us keep in mind that while he is certainly celebrated for his elucidations of biological functions he is just as popular for the fact that 1) he weaves his particular take on atheism, as his worldview, into these elucidations and 2) these elucidations tend to amount to the telling of tall tales about how things could have occurred or perhaps, should have occurred (“should” in accordance to his theory).

Moreover, note that with regards to “assertions without adequate evidence” evolutionary biologist and geneticist, Prof. Richard Lewontin, referenced Carl Sagan’s list of the “best contemporary science-popularizers” which includes Richard Dawkins. These authors have, as Lewontin puts it, “put unsubstantiated assertions or counterfactual claims at the very center of the stories they have retailed in the market.” Lewontin specifically mentions “Dawkins’s vulgarizations of Darwinism” (find details here and here; also, be sure to check out Phillip E. Johnson’s article The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism).

Even renowned evolutionary biologists H. Allen Orr, David Sloan Wilson, and Massimo Pigliucci have called into question the power that Dawkins once had as an intellectual, since he has made elementary errors in The God Delusion.2

But he’s turned himself into a clown, and damaged his reputation But can one turn themselves into something that they already are? And what reputation? His reputation has always been the very same and this Pope related publicity stunt is nothing new. Moreover, why would he oppose the Pope considering that what the Pope may be complicit in, surely, relates to some gentle pedophiles. What! “Gentle pedophiles”!!!

Oh, no, no, no; those are not my words but Richard Dawkins who, indeed, argues that there are gentle pedophiles and that way too much is made of pedophilia at times.3

For these reasons and more Robert Fulford’s referring to Richard Dawkins as a clown is very, very offensive—to clowns.
Clowns are lovable and funny whilst Richard Dawkins is belligerent, arrogant, belittling and shockingly lacking in knowledge with regards to many of the issues that he takes on (find ample evidence here).

Also, Richard Dawkins downgraded his supposed magnum opus, The God Delusion from being the ultimate atheist evangelist tool,

If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down (see here).

To being merely appealing to “people who maybe were sort of vaguely sitting on the fence” to finally, as self described by him, becoming a funny book and an amusing book.

Lastly, this is not the first time, and will likely not be the last, that the antics of the New Atheists have been correlated with clownness: consider Vox Day’s article, The Clowns of Reason.

Lyrics to “Send In The Clowns” by Stephen Sondheim:

Isn’t it rich? Are we a pair? Me here at last on the ground, You in mid-air.

Send in the clowns.

Isn’t it bliss? Don’t you approve? One who keeps tearing around, One who can’t move. Where are the clowns?

Send in the clowns.

Just when I’d stopped Opening doors, Finally knowing The one that I wanted was yours, Making my entrance again With my usual flair, Sure of my lines,

No one is there.

Don’t you love farce? My fault, I fear. I thought that you’d want what I want – Sorry, my dear. But where are the clowns? There ought to be clowns.

Quick, send in the clowns.

What a surprise. Who could foresee I’d come to feel about you What you’d felt about me? Why only now when I see That you’d drifted away? What a surprise.

What a cliche.

Isn’t it rich? Isn’t it queer? Losing my timing this late In my career? And where are the clowns? Quick, send in the clowns.

Don’t bother – they’re here.