On “10 of Evolution’s Craziest Theories”

To the video 10 of Evolution’s Craziest Theories, I, Ken Ammi, commented:

After over a century of demanding that dinosaurs never live with humans, Atheist evolutionists now demand that dinosaurs have lived with humans all along.

A certain teuelin replied:

Yeah it’s called science.  We observe the world around us, hypothesize to attempt to explain, test, peer review, repeat.

Reality is complicated and we learn more about it every day.  The fact we are hungry for knowledge and want to learn more and better understand the world of the past, present and future is not a negative.  Science and our understanding of our world is not set in stone like your good book is.

teuelin followed up thusly:

Disregard my original statement.  There is absolutely no scientific basis for his claim.  I thought there was some new landmark discovery of some strange dinosaur remnant like a huge crocodile or something that cohabitated with us for a bit, overlapping.

Instead it’s just a straw man like everything on this list.  Arguments from ignorance and straw men.

Ken Ammi:

So are we supposed to believe whatever Atheist evolutionists tell us du jour even if the next day they say the exact opposite? You seem to imply that adhering to “science,” such as basing our views on it is a universal imperative but you don’t say how or why on your worldview.

Are you an Atheist? If so then how could you appeal to “Reality” since in that case, reality would be accidental, as would our ability to discern it, there’s be no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand/expect others to adhere to it which would discredit your comment.

Likewise, if that’s the case then “fact” refer to an accident that that “we are hungry for knowledge” is also accidental.

The scientific methods is premised on my “good book.”

teuelin:

Adhere to the scientific method.  Everything on the list was either an argument from ignorance or a straw man.  As we gain more knowledge our understanding changes and that is not a problem.

I am an atheist,  have a good one 👍

P.S. It doesn’t matter how reality sprang into existence.  It doesn’t change anything.  Odd statement that there would be no universal imperative if it randomly sprang into existence.  Doesn’t logic.

Ken Ammi:

Note that you demanded that I “Adhere to the scientific method” but just because you say so?

The issue is not that “As we gain more knowledge our understanding changes” but that, as I noted, “how could you appeal to ‘Reality’ since in that case, reality would be accidental, as would our ability to discern it, there’d be no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand/expect others to adhere to it which would discredit your comment.”

Now, you sort of touch upon that when you write, “It doesn’t matter how reality sprang into existence.  It doesn’t change anything” but it does, it changes everything since on your worldview adhering to reality is just an emotively subjective personal preference du jour based on hidden assumptions (I already elucidated this).

Why say “Odd statement that there would be no universal imperative if it randomly sprang into existence” since what you subjectively find odd is not a standard and that’s just a half-though: odd ergo what? But you say “Doesn’t logic” and it’s the same issue as with reality: on your worldview logic is accidental, as is our ability to discern it, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand/expect others to adhere to it which would discredit your comment.

“Doesn’t logic” is a jump to a conclusion without an argument (of course, that’s not a problem on Atheism).

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Well, that ended that as no more replies were forthcoming.

See my various books here.

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Mysterious World site’s article, Giants in the Earth Part I:Giants of the Ancient Near East

Undergoing consideration is the Mysterious World website’s article, Giants in the Earth Part I: Giants of the Ancient Near East.

The article begins with titillating references to, “Giants!…giants…giants…giant…” and that’s just in the first article.

This begs the questions:

What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?

What’s the Mysterious World author’s usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?

Do those usages agree?

We’re told, “Prominent references in the Bible…make prominent mention of a time in mankind’s distant past wherein giants walked the Earth…The ancient Near East…have stories of abnormally large humans of various sizes. From tribes of unusually tall, strongly built men ranging anywhere from 8-12 feet in height to solitary giants towering several miles high, stories of giants are among the favorites of storytellers worldwide.”

So, by giants what is being referenced are subjectively unusually tall personages ranging from 8-several miles tall: which is why employing the term giants is utterly useless.

In any case, now we know that authors’ usage and now we know that it has utterly nothing to do with the usage in English Bibles wherein it’s merely rendering (not even translating) Nephilim, in two verses, or Repha/im, in 98% of all others—and never even hinting at anything to do with height whatsoever.

The article is 37 pages long when pasted into the Word program at font size 12 so I will be picking out the most notable issues it contains.

One view of whence came giants is, “Giants are the result of interbreeding between humans and fallen angels” which, sans the un-biblical usage of giants and so swapping out Giants for Nephilim was the original, traditional, and majority view amongst the earliest Jewish and Christians commentator alike starring in BC days, as I proved in my book On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

We’re told, “the Book of Enoch relates that angels sent by God to guard the earth were seduced by the beauty of terrestrial women who subsequently gave birth to demoniacal sons 3,000 cubits [approx. 4,500 feet] high”: which is great folklore but poor reality. 1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from millennia after the Torah, see the book, In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

Also, “Later, ancient historians tell us, Og, the King of Bashan, who lived three thousand years, escaped the Flood by wading only knee-deep beside the Ark,” followed by other tall-tales told about him.

Biblically, we have no physical description of him at all, such come from folklore from millennia later.

He wasn’t born until centuries post-flood and so wasn’t around for God to fail by missing the loophole that he could have just be, “wading only knee-deep beside the Ark” or hanging on to it, as the folklore actually goes.

See my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

At least we’re told, “the Jewish legendary material regarding the huge size of Og and Moses are clearly midrashic in nature” with Midrash being sermonizing homilies from millennia after the Torah.

Yet, we’re told, “the Bible makes no bones about the existence of giants in the ancient world, both in the antediluvian world and afterwards. As Moses said in Genesis 6:4, ‘There were giants [Nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also afterwards.’”

But since we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim and the author’s usage is not the Bible’s usage then this is just a word-concept fallacy.

We’re told of, “Giants in the Time of Adam” and how, “The earliest,” unquoted and uncited, “references to giants occur in the very earliest times in Earth’s history…a ‘pre-Adamic race’…giants known as the ‘pre-Adamites’’ for which there’s no indication. Also, BTW, if they were all giants then none of them were giants.

Then, “Giants in the Time of Adam” which includes, “Significant,” unquoted and uncited, “evidence of the existence of a race before Adam, a ‘pre-Adamic race.”

We’re also told that, “Some” unquoted and uncited personages, “argue that ‘the serpent’ was actually one of the fallen angels, or possibly even one of the pre-Adamic race that the fallen angels are believed to have created, and that “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was actually symbolic of a strand of DNA, DNA that was unique to this pre-Adamic race.” The serpent was Satan (Rev chaps 12 and 20) and he’s a fallen Cherub, not Angle. As to the DNA thing, such is why I term pop-Nephilology neo-theo-sci-fi-tall-tales.

We’re told, “In order to stop the despoilment of His creation by these rebellious ‘lesser gods’, the fallen angels, YHWH created homo sapiens to supplant and eventually destroy their abhorrent offspring.” There’s no indication, even in apocrypha or pseudepigrapha, that humans destroyed Nephilim: the last of them died in the flood.

We’re then told of, “Giants in the Time of Noah” in which, “Homo artificialis” a sci-fi term for the supposed result of DNA manipulation—which would biblically be the non-pre-Adamite Nephilim who resulted from physical mating, “with its superior size” which is unknown to us, actually, since we’ve no reliable physical description of them.

We’re then told about that, “The arguments regarding the identity of these mysterious ‘sons of God’” of the Genesis 6 affair, as I term it, “generally breaks down into three basic interpretations”:

1) “The ‘sons of God’ are the Sethites (cf. 5:1-3), while the ‘daughters of men’ are from the Cainite line”: this is a late comer of a view that’s based on myth and only causes more problems than it solves.

2) “The ‘sons of God’ are heavenly beings, who mate with earthly women”: we just need to specify Angels with regards to heavenly beings—Job 38:7 is a direct route to that sons of God can refer to non-human beings (which the LXX has as “Angelos”).

3) “The ‘sons of God’ are dynastic rulers who, as oriental despots, established royal harems by force or practiced indiscriminate rape”: this is essentially a historically unknown view.

The author is clearly mixing and matching terminology and data from different times and genre. For example, reference is made to, “one-third of the angels — described symbolically as ‘stars’ in the text” of Rev 12 but that is followed directly by that they, “followed Semjaza, Azazel and a group of other powerful angels into rebellion” which his from 1 Enoch.

Also, we’re then told of, “The ‘intermarriage’ between these fallen angels and the giants” by which I can only imagine reference is being made to Angels mating with (the imaginary) pre-Adamites.

We’re told of then “super-race of the nephilim-gibborim” and that, “To crush the attempt of introducing man into the realms of the divine, God sovereignly and justly judged man to death in the Flood.” FYI: biblically, “nephilim-gibborim” reads as mighty Nephilim. Reference is also made of, “Nephilim giants” which biblically reads as Nephilim Nephilim.

Leroy Birney is quoted thusly, “The word ‘nephilim’ occurs only here [Gen 6:4] and in Numbers 13:33. In Numbers it is used of the Anakim, who were of great stature. The LXX translates ‘giants’ [gigantes]…” (“An Exegetical Study of Genesis 6:1-4,” Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society (Winter 1970), 51).

Num 13:33 is one sentence form an evil report by utterly unreliable guys whom God rebuked. It’s generally understood that the tall-tale they concocted is that Anakim were, in some unelucidated manner, related to Nephilim and that Nephilim were very, very, very tall: that theirs is the only physical description we have of Nephilim is why I noted that we have no reliable physical description.

As for, “Anakim, who were of great stature” well, what we’re told about them is that they were, “tall” (Deut 2) which is subjective to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days.

Now, when we’re next told that, “Nephilim were…gigantic” we can dismiss that as being based on zero reliable data points—and only one unreliable pseudo-data point.

Yet, we’re told that they, “grew to be of a tremendous stature” followed by an appeal to the plagiarist Stephen Quayle (see proof of that in my book Nephilim and Giants As Per Pop-Researchers) who, “explains in his seminal” largely plagiarized, “work, Genesis 6 Giants, The Nephilim that were produced by the angel/mankind marriage were much different from either of their parents.”

Let’s pause here since Angels are always described as looking just like human males and human females look just like human females so why would their offspring look, “much different from either of their parents”?

But perhaps he’s not speaking of their look—although he is since, at the very least, he asserts that they were giants-height-wise, “large beings or giants in the way giants are normally thought of today”—whatever that means.

He went on to say, “This…went against God’s plan…in which each animal and human being was to reproduce ‘after its own kind’. [Genesis 1:24].” Since Angles look just like human males, we were created, “a little lower than they” (Psalm 8:5), and we’re able to produce offspring with them then, by definition, we’re of the same basic kind.

Quayle and/or the person he plagiarized went on to write/quote, “When the Greek Septuagint was created, the Hebrew word Nephilim was translated into Greek as gegenes. This is the same word used in Greek mythology for the ‘Titans’, creatures created through the interbreeding of the Greek gods and human beings.”

Some LXX versions have gigantes, some gigas, some gegenes: the points of which are references to pertaining to Gaia, the Earth false goddess—such as being born of her. But it was not elucidated that there were more than one generation of Titans (with some featuring the lower bodies of serpents and others having 100 arms) and that it was not gods and human beings but the sky false god and the Earth false goddess (although I will grant that mythologies tend to vary).

We’re told, “Quayle appears to promote the idea that the Nephilim were actually formed by combining the DNA of the fallen angels and human women, since angels are spirit and thus do not have DNA, we hold to the thesis that the Nephilim were genetically manufactured beings created from the genetic material of various pre-existing animal species.”

This is none but neo-theo-sci-fi-tall-tales. Quayle actually asserts that Angels came to the pre-creation of humans Earth, possessed animals of all sorts (including bird and sea-dwellers), they underwent Darwinian evolutionary processes, until they became human-looking enough to mate with Adamites—who else?

That’s a perfect example of un-biblical neo-theo-sci-fi—evo—tall-tales.

So as to sound fancy, the author decides, “to fit them into our scientific paradigm, we should officially term the Nephilim as a subclass of homo artificialis: homo artificialis nephilid”—that’s actually a pseudo-scientific paradigm and/or science fiction paradigm.

We’re told, “Thus, the fallen angels did not personally interbreed with the daughters of men, but used their godlike intellect to delve into the secrets of YHWH’s Creation and manipulate it to their own purposes.”

We then get some throw away pseudo linguistics, “Quayle points out that the Greek antecedent of the word ‘giants’ is the word gegenes” which, “is also the root of the words ‘genes’, ‘genetics’, ‘geneology’, [sic.] and so forth. Thus, the concept of genetic manipulation was ‘spliced in’ to the ancient conception of giants.”

That is all even though Gen 6 states, “sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives…sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.” Apparently, attraction, marriage, and mating just aren’t sci-fi enough for some.

Also, “Quayle also points out that the giants did not suffer from a hormonal imbalance, commonly known today as ‘gigantism’…according to Quayle, there is definitive proof that genetic manipulation can in fact result in the development of a gigantic version of a particular species” even though, again, we’ve no reliable reason to think that Nephilim were even one inch taller than the subjective average.

To add weight, we’re told, “The,” unquoted and uncited, “rabbinic literature also confirms that the Nephilim were indeed a giant…that had existed before the Flood, and also afterward” yet, any and all such literature is from millennia after the Torah and is peppered with folklore, speculation, assertions, etc.

Robert C. Newman is quoted stating, “Regarding the ‘Nephilim’, the rabbis apparently used Num 13:33, where the term is associated with the Anakim at the time of the Exodus. With this hint and the aid of Deut. 2:10-11, 20-21, they obtained five other names for the Nephilim by which to describe them using etymological word-play” (“The Ancient Exegesis of Genesis 6:2, 4,” Grace Theological Journal 5.1 (1984), 26-27).

Reminder, “where the term is associated” within one single sentence of an evil report by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.

There’s literally zero even as much as a, “hint” in Deut 2 which does not in the least bit contain, “five other names for the Nephilim” since that’s all about Rephaim and doesn’t even mention Nephilim—and that’s the sort of thing being published in a Theological Journal: no wonder pop-Nephilology is a cesspool of misinfo and disinfo.

Newman utterly subjectively tells us that, “Two of these are rather supernatural sounding” and repeats Rabbinic tall-tales, “‘Gibborim: … the marrow of each one’s thigh bone was eighteen cubits long’; ‘Anakim: … their necks reached the globe of the sun’: (ellipses by Newman or the article’s author).

We’re told, “Newman points out, several subclasses of Nephilim appear to have existed before the Flood, and also afterwards. One of those that existed before the Flood were the ‘Gibborim’, the ‘mighty men of old.’”

Note how incoherent it is to assert anything about Gibborim’s bones since that’s just a descriptive term for might/mighty. Yes, many pop-researchers actually think that The Gibborim were a people group but that’s incoherent. It’s a term applied to Nephilim, to Angels, to some of David’s soldiers, to Boaz, to God, etc.

As for Anakim’s, “necks reached the globe of the sun” they went from being taller than 5.0-5.3 ft. to well, I hope they had some extreme SPF sunblock.

Perhaps there were, “subclasses of Nephilim appear to have existed before the Flood” even though we’re no such data. Again, there’s literally only one single unreliable sentence of that such was the case, “also afterwards” of the flood.

But, it was not a Nephilim subclass that were, “‘Gibborim’, the ‘mighty men of old’” but the Nephilim themselves, “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.”

The author ends up falling for the incoherent, illogical, and ill-bio-logical assertion I just noted, “The ‘Gibborim’ were…offspring of the Nephilim.”

Directly following that, Newman is quoted for pseudo support again, “In Gen 6:4 nephilim is translated gigantes without textual variation”: so he’s unaware that it might also read as gigas or gegenes.

He also merely assets, “The Greek word, usually rendered ‘giant’, indicates a warrior of large stature and translates gibbor in Gen 10:8, 9.” Again, it only indicates being earth-born, as in born of Gaia.

We’re told, “Nephilim…apparently procreated amongst themselves…resulting in the creation of a subclass of giants known as the gibborim. Not quite as tall as the Nephilim — who were likely giants among giants, dozens, perhaps hundreds of feet tall, if the midrash are to be believed — the Gibborim were probably more the size of Goliath, in the 8-12 feet tall range.”

Perhaps Nephilim procreated amongst themselves but, again, it’s simply erroneous to assert “a subclass of giants known as the gibborim.”

They were, “Not quite as tall as the Nephilim” for whom we’ve no reliable physical description—which is why the assertion is so utterly wide, “dozens, perhaps hundreds of feet tall, if” that is, folklore from millennia after the Torah, “are to be believed.”

It’s myopic to merely assert, “Goliath…8-12 feet” since the preponderance of the earliest data—the LXX, Dead Sea Scrolls, and Flavius Josephus—all have him at just shy of 7 ft.

Having merely invented a people group called Gibborim, we get more sci-fi-tall-tale taxonomy, “we will classify this type of homo artificialis nephili / homo sapiens hybrid as homo artificialis nephilim gibbori, ‘Gibborim’ for short.”

Reference is made to the man whom Stephen Quayle plagiarized, in term of that Charles DeLoach asserted, “fallen angels in evolved human flesh” and he asserted a common trope in that they, “posed the gravest threat to God’s plan for the redemption…to come and redeem the fallen Adamic family had to be born from pure stock” but, again, since as per post-flood Nephilolgists, the flood was much of a waste it was not enough to do the job.

DeLoach continued, “as commentator H.B. Pratt explains, ‘There are, for example, those who suppose here, just as in the case of the wife of Cain, that there were two distinct races of men in the world, the Adamic and the Pre-Adamic — a race perhaps half bestial; the mixture of which two races caused the moral desolations that are mentioned; and that when the Hebrew text says … that ‘Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations’, [it means] that he was of pure stock and uncontaminated” (“Giants and the Flood”, in Giants: A Reference Guide from History, the Bible, and Recorded Legend (Metuchen, NJ: The Scarecrow Press, Inc., 1995), 105-106).

But why merely assert that Cain’s wife was distinct, pre-Adamic, and half bestial? Multiple generations of Adamites are recorded in Gen 4-5 showing that there were plenty of people around for Cain to marry: other Adamites.

As for, “Noah…of pure stock and uncontaminated” in terms of genetics: that may very well have been the case but it actually refers to his righteousness, as I proved in my book What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim? A Styled Giantology and Nephilology.

Thus, the tall-tale teller Quayle relied on the tall-tale teller DeLoach who relied on the tall-tale teller Pratt—and so goes the echo-chamber.

We’re told, “DeLoach continues…when these created and evolved peoples copulated, many of the children born to them grew to astonishing sizes. Having bodies that were part animal and part man…gigantic beings” about which I can only say: neo-theo-sci-fi-tall-tales.

It’s amazing how much so many Nephilologists know based on, what, one or two sentences? For example, the Meredith G. Kline specifically specifies, “Nephilim, and their horrid children, the Gibborim, plundered the wealth of others and heaped it up in vast hordes for the purposes of conspicuous consumption, gorging while others starved…Gibborim sought only for temporary pleasures, achieving their goals through merciless murder, plunder and rapine,” etc., etc., etc. (“Divine Kingship and Genesis 6:1-4,” Westminster Theological Journal 24 (1962), 200).

The article’s author chimes in, “Gibborim…were simply giant parasites living off of the work of others…creating vast harems of women…wasting resources, killing off healthy cells, and spreading poisons all over the face of Earth. In the end, using their techniques of murder, plunder, and rapine, homo artificialis systematically subverted and destroyed homo sapiens,” etc., etc., etc.

After almost another 800 words of such fantasy stuff, we’re told that Ronald S. Hendel refers to, “the deluge — the destruction of humanity and the concomitant annihilation of the disorder. The cosmic imbalance is resolved by a great destruction, out of which a new order arises” and yet, again, post-flood Nephilologists go on to imply that God failed and the, “new order” was soon also corrupted (“Of Demigods and the Deluge: Toward an Interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4” Journal of Biblical Literature 106/1 (1987), 23).

The author notes, “In order to destroy the Nephilim and the accursed Gibborim…God sent the Great Flood to wipe the slate clean” but such post-flood Nephilologists seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance since they don’t close the loop, they don’t recognize that they are claiming two utterly contradictory things (even when it’s pointed out to them, believe me) and, when pushed, will just add another tall-tale about how they’re not really implying that God failed but that they’re extremely specific statements, such as the one I just quoted, does not necessitate no post-flood Nephilim

To them, “God sent the Great Flood to wipe the slate clean” but the slate was corrupted and that’s okay, God went to Plan-B.

Yes, “YHWH was forced to destroy all life on Earth…As a result of the Flood, all of the work the fallen angels had done to either corrupt or destroy homo sapiens had been rendered useless…However” here we go, “though the Flood wiped out all of the Nephilim and Gibborim, their progenitors — the fallen angels who cannot die — watched and waited for the time when they could start the next phase of the great genetic war again.”

The author seems unaware that there was only a one-time fall of Angles in the Bible and that Jude and 2 Peter 2 tell us that those Angels were incarcerated. Now, be aware the they don’t specify when they were incarcerated but since the flood was when God was wiping the slate clean then that would have been the logical time.

But the author went with one of the tall-tales about how God must have missed a loophole, “as soon as,” mind you, “the waters receded, the ‘mystery of iniquity’ began once more. Phase three…just after,” mind you, “Noah and his family left the ark.”

We’re told of the event that, “resulted in the cursing of the line of Canaan, one of the sons of Ham, the son of Noah. (Genesis 9:18-27).” As an FYI, as the author notes, “it appears that all agree that the action was sexual in nature” and pertained to Ham and Noah’s wife.

But what that had to do with that, “the fallen angels…could start the next phase” is certainly irrelevant—if, that is, one is just reading the texts for what they say and not seeking tall-tales fodder.

This somehow led to, “the point where conditions once again had begun to resemble those that had led to the need for the Great Flood” and, pray tell, “why did YHWH plan to destroy the Canaanites”? We’re told—actually, it’s merely asserted—”Because the fallen angels were once again at work on Earth, using the Canaanites to breed a whole new generation of Nephilim and Gibborim giants” for which, of course, there’s literally zero indication.

God told us many times why He commanded such destruction but never said even one single word about Nephilim—I devoted an entire chapter of my book What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim? to proving this fact.

We were introduced to the name game whereby when post-flood Nephilologists realize they have zero data—or one unreliable sentence and nothing more—then they merely water down and swap names. We already got a taste of this regarding the invention of a Nephilimish people group called Gibborim.

Now we get, “Amor, the father of the ‘Amorites’…though whom the fallen angels had begun recreating the dreaded Nephilim”: thus, now anytime you read about Amorites, you can merely swap in Nephilim and there you have it: utterly artificially manufactured pseudo data.

It’s merely asserted, “For this reason YHWH forbad Abraham to tarry in Canaan” for which there’s zero indication.

Thus, or so the fascinating and exiting sci-fi-tall-tales go, “as soon as…just after” the flood, “The fallen angels were busily at work creating all new armies of wicked giants that they would once again use to try to conquer the world.”

We’re told, “giants…make a significant appearance in the Bible again…Genesis 14…describes a major regional conflict between the king of Elam and five of his vassals” which is contextually irrelevant since none of them were Nephil, of course.

We’re told of a, “group of peoples called the Rephaim, Zuzim, Emim, and Horim” about whom Victor “Hamilton explains…Rephaim, Zuzim, and Emim are…people of giant stature. (Deut. 2:10-12, 20-23).” (The New International Commentary on the New Testament: The Book of Genesis: Chapters 1-17 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1990), 402)).

Yet, the only relevant this Deut 2 tells us is that they were, “tall” subjective to 5.0-5.3 ft.

We’re regaled with (tall) tales of, “Distribution of Palestinian Giants…Rephaim and Gibborim-type giant subclasses…general areas of inhabitation can be derived from Genesis 14 and Deuteronomy 2-3” but what can’t be derived there from is anything to do with Nephilim nor anyone that was more than, “tall.”

We’re assured, “The mysterious Rephaim, Zuzim, Emim and Horim were, in fact, giants” about which the author doesn’t seem to realize that Zuzim and Emim were just an aka for Rephaim—but it sounds more impressive to make the list longer, I suppose.

Playing the name game again, it’s merely asserted, “The Rephaim were the next generation of giants, the ‘new Nephilim’, and were of Amorite descent. Since there’s no actual way to connect Rephaim in to Nephilim, post-flood Nephilologists commit word-concept fallacies for the purpose of getting us to believe that subjectively selected meanings, definitions, usages of a root word is enough to back their assertions.

In this case, “the exact meaning of the term rephaim is not as clear, as the term is used for a variety of purposes, both in the Bible and in related texts” but why let that stop a good tall-tale since, again, one can just pick a meaning that can somehow be mashed into a tall-tale?

I actually wrote the book. I mean I literally wrote the book on the linguistics, titled Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010, and included an entire chapter about them in What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim?

The root word rapha ranges from dead to healing (and more).

The author tells us that Conrad E. L’Heureux, “gives an excellent summary…1) rephaim, meaning the shades of the dead…2) rephaim, referring to a gigantic race…Anaqim [aka Anakim] who, like Rephaim, were thought to be a prehistoric race of gigantic stature…Emim, apparently a special designation for the Rephaim…Zamzummim [aka Zuzim] are the Rephaim” (Rank among the Canaanite Gods: El, Ba’al and the Rephaim (Harvard Semitic Monographs 21) (Missoula, MT: Scholars Press, 1979), 111-112).

That, “rephaim, meaning the shades of the dead” is myopic, “rephaim, referring to a gigantic race” is taller than 5.0-5.3 ft. “Anaqim” were a clan of the Rephaim tribe” and so also, taller than 5.0-5.3 ft. and, again, Emim and Zamzummim/Zuzim were just akas for Rephaim.

But, in typical post-flood Nephilology manner, since none of that is sexy enough, appeal is made to Pagan mythology for support—not only appeal but Pagan mythology is actually artificially inserted into Biblical theology.

For example, “In the Ras Shamra texts found in the Canaanite city-state of Ugarit, the Rephaim are described as being simultaneously divine beings, human beings, cultic functionaries of the Amorite god Ba’al, mighty warriors, riders of chariots, and healers, or ‘ones who are healed’”: it slices, it dices, it chops, it blends—here’s how to order!

Basically, it comes down to that in Ugaritic mythology, when a king or hero died they were called king or hero but after they had been dead for a while, they were called the Rephaim and could be ritualistically summoned—see my article Dead Kings and Rephaim The Patrons of the Ugaritic Dynasty.

They use (or abuse) this in order to conclude that Rephaim were the living dead, preferably asserting that they were inhabited by the spirits of dead Nephilim or whatever sci-fi spin any given post-flood Nephilologist puts on it.

You see, in their desperation for appearing to have any data whatsoever, they even turn healing into a bad thing. The author tells us, that, “Concerning the meaning,” the singular only meaning, mind you, “of rapha and how it fits into the concept of underworld deity” since, John Gray, “believes that the basic meaning of rapha is ‘to heal’ or, more likely, to be healed” (“The Rephaim” Palestine Exploration Quarterly 84 (1949), 134).

But what does that have to do with, “the concept of underworld deity” well, the author comes to the rescue with, “However,” mind you, “since it has to do with the dead rephaim, and since these dead rephaim are, along with Ba’al, resurrected at the beginning of each rainy season, I suggest that the Rephaim are not merely healed but, along with Ba’al, resurrected, and the fertility of the land resurrected with them. Thus the basic concept behind the word rephaim is ‘those who have been resurrected.’” And that’s how you admit a meaning but pile sci-fi atop it.

Recall my point about the incorporation of Pagan mythology as the author went to on write, “The rephaim deities of the Ugaritic texts, then, were seen as the resurrected spirits of ancient warrior kings. But resurrected into what? And how does this apply to the Rephaim giants?” the actual answer to which seem to be: not at all.

Yet, that won’t further the tall-tale so, “The Rephaim were seen by the Amorites as both divine and human, as human incarnations of the divine rephaim, just as the Amorite king was considered to be the incarnation of their state god.”

We’re even told, “the Rephaim giants were specifically noted by Moses as being the return of the antediluvian Nephilim, that the Rephaim were in fact the reincarnations of the demonic spirits of the Nephilim giants who had been destroyed in the Flood.” There’s a reason why no quotations or citations accompany that assertion and that is because it is a mere assertion without a single word to back it.

But what do facts matter when you can pile assertion atop assertion into a bottomless pit of assertions and jump to the gigantic conclusion, “Thus, inherent in the very name ‘Rephaim’ was the confirmation that the Rephaim were indeed the return of the Nephilim” and that couldn’t be left as is but had to be plumped up even more with, “the next generation that succeeded the Nephilim breed of giants: homo artificialis rephi.”

“In sum,” we’re told, “Rephaim were a giant, human/divine hybrid race…a ‘master race’ of giant warrior-kings that were worshiped as the reincarnated spirits of the giant antediluvian god-kings, the Nephilim….Gibborim ‘storm troopers’…Gibborim even had specific names: the Zuzim, the Emim, the Horim, and the Avvim.”

Since the author is unaware that, as per Deut 2, Zuzim is just an aka for Rephaim, we’re told, “Zuzim were a Gibborim subclass of the Rephaim” who based on literally nothing, “were probably 8-10 feet tall” which based on literally nothing was, “a few feet shorter than the Rephaim, some of whom probably approached 12 feet in height or more.”

We’re then told, “The Emim were another Gibborim subclass…Horim were yet another Gibborim subclass…Avvim are the final Gibborim subclass…” or so goes the name game based on a people groups that was never a people group: the Gibborim.

Mention is made to, “Rephaim and Gibborim that then existed on Earth. (Gen. 19)” yet, of course, that text states no such thing and likewise with that, “Rephaim developed an all-new group of giant Gibborim stormtroopers — the Anakim.”

Refreshingly, the author is more specific than 90% of post-flood Nephilologists when reference is made to the premise for post-flood Nephilology, “When Israel first approached the land of Canaan, they sent out a group of twelve spies” yet, the author drops the specificity, “they returned in fear of the giants they saw there, particularly the Anakim.”

The author then actually quotes vss. 21-22, 25, 27-33 but still somehow misses the point of the narrative, key portions of which are:

“they went up…they ascended…where Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, were…they returned…they told…the land…floweth with milk and honey…the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there. The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan…

Caleb stilled the people…and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it…

But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. 33And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

Thus, “they sent out a group of twelve spies” but it was ten of them (since Joshua sided with Caleb) who, “returned in fear”: the ten unreliable ones whom God rebuked.

In short, an original report was presented that was accepted as is, is refers to the strength of the peoples, lists them, and specifies their locations.

The ten first agree that the issue is that multiple people groups living in well fortified cities, were, “stronger than we.”

But then, they, “brought up an evil report” which contradicts (not, “the land…floweth with milk and honey” but, “a land that eateth up the inhabitants”), they embellish it (not, “strong” and “stronger” but, “of a great stature”), and add the Nephilim to the list in the original report—being unable to specify where they live since well, they were just making it up.

In all, they made five assertions unbacked by even one single other verse in the entire Bible.

As for Anakim’s relation to Nephilim well, that’s impossible and the Anakim aren’t even mentioned in the LXX version of that verse.

The author conveniently ignores that it was an evil report that contained a tall-tale and nothing more.

For more details, see my Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

Of, “The Anakim,” for which the ridiculous term, “homo artificialis rephaim anaki” was invented, we’re further told, “Anakim were the next generation of Gibborim giants produced by the Rephaim” even though Gibborim giants were supposedly produced by the Nephilim.

The author goes back to lacking specificity in asserting, “in their later report to Moses they mentioned only the Anakim giants” somehow also missing that, “in their later,” evil, “report to Moses they mentioned…the Anakim giants,” in non-LXX versions, and Nephilim.

Next, we’re back to, “Rabbinical tradition,” from millennia after the Torah, which, “has a fair amount to say about the sons of Anak” as per the Anakim entry in The Jewish Encyclopedia, “According to rabbinical tradition (Gen. R. xxvi.), the Anakim are of the same Titanic race as the Rephaim, Nefilim, Gibborim, Zamzummim, and Emim” which is incoherent.

Also, “The name (as though containing the element ‘anak = neck) is explained in the Midrash (Gen. R. xxvi.) as indicating that they wore ‘neck-chains heaped upon neck-chains,’”—I pity the fool!!!

Moreover, “they seized the solar disk…they squeezed their heads into the sun” whatever that means.

The author notes, “The word ‘anak means ‘neck’ or ‘necklace’ in Hebrew, and there appears to have been a tradition of the Anakim being a long-necked race, that wore many necklaces, possibly stacked one upon the other. Perhaps what we are intended to understand was that the Anakim, like the ‘Long Neck’ Karen peoples of Myanmar and Thailand, stacked brass rings around their necks in order to stretch out their necks in an effort to enhance their height and appearance.”

Well, merely stacking rings does not magically cause more vertebra to grow. Rather, it causes the shoulder girdle to lower. The Karen peoples are not taller due to this and are actually shorter on average that the average North American.

The author thinks, “That would also explain the alternate meanings that the rabbis were exploring, including ‘to press, force’, as if they were forcing their heads upwards, and the idea that they ‘squeezed their heads into the sun’, in the sense of ‘squeezing’ their heads upward using the brass rings.”

Also, “This type of purposeful manipulation of the body in order to create frightening and disturbing effects, including neck…malformation” indeed, which may make their appearance frightening and disturbing but would make them terrible warriors: it would be so much easier to break their necks with a single punch.

Somehow, the author directly jumps into asserting, “extensive piercing, body painting, tattooing and similarly bizarre methods of body modification, appears to have been typical of the Anakim, and of the Nephilim generally.”

DeLoach is appealed to again, and you can see why Quayle plagiarized him since he just told incoherent and generic tall-tales as well, “Moses, in Numbers 13:33, affirms that they descended from the Nephilim” when actually, “Moses, in Numbers 13:33, affirms” the such an assertion was from an evil report. In Deut 1 when Moses relates that event, he mentions Anakim but not Nephilim. Why would he, and the original report, utterly ignore the most awe inspiring beings on the planet? Well, because he was practical and was concerned about the real dangers on the ground and not some tall-tale.

It is only after many, many, many paragraphs that the author decided to specify, “When the spies returned from exploring Canaan, all of the spies save Joshua and Caleb brought terrifying reports of the sons of Anak” and yet, ignore the Nephilim again.

Also, “Joshua and Caleb, the only two who had faith that YHWH could easily defeat the giants despite their great size” even though neither ever referenced their height: regardless of to whom their refers.

We’re told, “Sihon was a famous Rephaim giant…Amorites had, by that time, been genetically modified and interbred into yet another Gibborim class of giant that, like the Anakim, was used by the Rephaim as stormtroopers…Amorites themselves had been completely converted into Gibborim-type homo sapiens / homo artificialis hybrid giants through interbreeding with the Rephaim…Amorite Gibborim….”

DeLoach is quoted stating, “Sihon is not described in scripture as a giant, as Og was” yet, they are both only described as giants when that term is correctly used which is that they were described as Rephaim. Yet, as per the author’s and DeLoach’s misuse of that term, Og is never described as a giant: the only physical description we have of him is from over-the-top folkloric tall-tales from millennia after the Torah.

Now, since the Babylonian Talmud (from 300-500 AD, mind you), “list both kings [Sihon and Og] as grandsons of Shemjazai [aka, Semjaza], a fallen angel (Niddah 61a) who evidently was of the Nephilim.” I’m unsure how a fantasy being who fathered Nephilim could be, “of the Nephilim” he fathered. I said fantasy being since Shemjazai/Semjaza is just a character from the Bible contradicting 1 Enoch which his folklore from millennia after the Torah: see my book In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

We’re told that, “Sihon…resembled Og in stature…(Midrash, Agadah, Hukkat, ed. Buber, p. 130a). These old writings…” but what is old is subjective since Midrashim may be old to us but they are from millennia after the Torah.

The author rightly, if just a bit generically, notes, “The Conquest of Canaan during the time of Moses and Joshua…destroyed Sihon and Og and took the entire area east of the Jordan away from the Anakim and Rephaim…wiping out the remnant of the giant Amorites and Rephaim…”

The author then has a rare moment of clarity, “Og…took on a legendary, at times almost comical character in the many Jewish legends that grew up around him. One story has Og surviving the Flood by hanging on to the ark, swearing servitude to Noah in return for food. The legends also place Og at many pivotal points in Israel’s history…legend tells, ‘Og sat on the city wall, his legs, which were eighteen ells (27 feet) long, reaching down to the ground.’” Yet, the author also concocted legends about Og.

DeLoach is quoted thusly, “An exceptional giant, Og…Josephus” also from millennia after the Torah, “stretched to a colossal height and possessed great strength. ‘Now Og had very few equals, either in largeness of body or handsomeness of his appearance…the vast largeness and handsome appearance of his body.’” Seems like Josephus had a bit of an Og crush.

The author asserts, “Og’s legendary ‘iron bed’ was 13-1/2 feet long and 6 feet wide, making it likely that Og was probably at least twelve feet tall — at least twice as tall (and wide) as the average man” but also admits, “Scholars have debated the subject of what exactly this ‘bed’ was, anything from a simple iron bed to a ceremonial couch to one of the many dolmens in the area, many of which were used as markers for important burial sites.”

Indeed, jumping from asserting to what bed refers to his height is a non-sequitur based on various mere asserted assumptions, see my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

The author tells us of various wars which have utterly nothing to do with Nephilim, of course, and then focuses on, “Goliath of Gath, a giant” with whom we’ve already dealt.

We’re then told of one of Goliath’s relative that he, “had six fingers and six toes on each hand and foot.” Pop-Nephilologists assert that such extra digits are a Nephilim trait but biblically, such was only stated about one single person and he was a Repha, not a Nephil: see my book Nephilim and Giants: Believe It or Not!: Ancient and Neo-Theo-Sci-Fi Tall Tales for a whole chapter just on this issue.

The sci-fi is, once again, taken up a giant notch via yet another appeal to DeLoach who referred to, “Benaiah’s killing of two mighty Ariels, or, as the King James Version describes them, ‘two lion-like men’…and his delivering the deathblow to an Egyptian giant. The big Egyptian that Benaiah fought wielded a spear as large as a weaver’s beam, while Benaiah was armed only with a club. But, in the sparring, Benaiah snatched from this giant his own spear and dispatched him with it.”

Thomas Horn is amongst the pop-Nephilologists who take a reference to fierce warriors—lion like—to mean something about human-lion hybrids, see my article Gary Wayne on the Origins of the Giant Lion-Like Men of Moab

Also, many post-flood Nephilologists insist that Goliath must have been at the top of the height ranges given for him due to his armor—they seem to forget that he had a guy assisting with his equipment—and that he wielded a, “spear as large as a weaver’s beam.” Yet, in the case of the 7.5 ft. Egyptian, regular guy Benaiah was able to successfully wield such a spear in hand-to-hand combat.

We’re told that, “Phase 6 of YHWH’s war against the giants,” since He couldn’t get the job done the first five times, pertained to, “genetic warfare, Jesus was born a pure descendant of Adam, untainted through countless generations, through Noah, Abraham, Israel, Judah, David and, finally, Mary” but the author somehow managed to miss that His genealogy also includes some Goyim who were of the peoples who were supposedly Nephilim-Gibborim-Rephaim-Angel-animal-human abominations, as per the tall-tales.

But even Phase 6 wasn’t enough since, “YHWH’s war against the giants is still unfinished. Who knows if somewhere, in secret, another ‘master race’ of giants is being bred for world conquest? Rumours of encounters with ‘aliens’ who come down from heaven, and vast breeding farms of hybrid ‘super soldiers’” this kicks the sci-fi off of the charts.

And it’s incredibly dangerous because it’s claiming there are humans who are actually not human and will have to be dealt with—capiche?!?! This sort of thing caused me to write a chapter titled, “Nephil Kampf” in my book Nephilim and Giants as per Pop-Researchers: A Comprehensive Consideration of the claims of I.D.E. Thomas, Chuck Missler, Dante Fortson, Derek Gilbert, Brian Godawa, Patrick Heron, Thomas Horn, Ken Johnson, L.A. Marzulli, Josh Peck, CK Quarterman, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba, Gary Wayne, Jim Wilhelmsen, et al.

The author next gets into non sequitur territory of the sort which concludes that large things must have been built for and by large people, “Dolmens, stone circles…weapons, armor, and even forbidden technologies” and, oh yes, “giant skeletons” but of what? Don’t ask, just use the word giant since it’s impressive.

One such site is, “the Gilgal Rephaim stone circle…that mark ancient, buried secrets” so secret that nothing remarkable has ever been found therein.

And the author leaves us with a gigantic pile of assertions, watered down etymology, fallacious correlations and an over all great, and greatly fallacious, neo-theo-sci-ti-tall-tale—which, by the way, Thomas Horn approvingly quoted.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page. You can comment here or on my Twitter page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Early-Modern Nephilology in Joseph Sutcliffe’s Commentary on the Old and New Testaments

In the midst of conducting research for my (as of Oct 2023 AD still unpublished) book Noah’s Flood, the Deluge, Global or Local?, Vol II, I read many, many commentaries on Genesis chapters 6-7.

I mostly ignored comments about Genesis 6:1-4 since although those verses are the premise for that which follows, comments about sons of God, Nephilim, etc. were un-contextual to that book.

Yet, I was so struck by Joseph Sutcliffe’s comments that I had to include them as an example of early Nephilology. Granted, given the historical context of commentary having been upon made regarding Nephilim for millennia, this is an example of early-modern, having been published in 1838 AD. This pertains specifically in terms of what un-biblical Nephilology has been all along: valid data points mixed with invalid data points and all strung together via illogical, ill-theo-logical, and ill-bio-logical subjective assertions.

In my book Nephilim and Giants As Per Pop-Researchers I traced the lineage, as it were, of that which I term neo-theo-sci-fi Nephilology back to I.D.E. (Isaac David Ellis) Thomas who proposed the key points of which such Nephilology is made: Nephilim were very, very tall, there were post-flood Nephilim, Anakim were related to them (and so somehow ergo, all Rephaim), throw UFOs into the mix and you got yourself a theory. They whom I term the pop-researchers of Nephilology merely repeat Thomas’ assertions—and plump them up with ever increasing doses of sci-fi with time and telling. I know not Thomas’ date of birth, but it was into the 1900s AD.

Well, Sutcliffe deserves some amount of credit for laying the groundwork for un-biblical Nephilology, un-biblical Rephaology, un-biblical giantology, etc. much earlier—all under the guise of commentary upon the Bible.

Hereinafter is what I am to publish regarding Sutcliffe’s comments in my yet to be published book:

Due to his calculation of a cubit, we will have to deal somewhat with his comments on vss. 1-4.

Of sons of God, he notes, “Some understand this expression of Seth’s sons, who intermarried with Cain’s daughters…Others understand it, and with greater propriety, of the sons of great men…Hence the sons of the judges, or great men, seized the daughters of the poor; and rapes, prostitution, and violence were without restraint.”

I am unsure whence he got those specifics and even more unsure of why he follows that directly with, “Being gigantic in stature, and having no regular government, they filled the earth with murder and robbery. All our Saxon chiefs claimed descent from Odin, and all the Greeks from Jupiter…”

I can only imagine that he read the modern English word, “giants” in the version he is consulting and just imagine what that means.

Yet, he may have imagined that spiked by mythology as he continues:

Genesis 6:4. Giants. These the poets call children of the earth, or earth-born, as is the etymon of the Greek γιγαντες. They were men of prodigious stature…Plato mentions this war of the giants or Titanes…Berosus, describes these giants…Rev. W. Ward…has written the history of the Mythology of the Hindoos, in which he says “The giants…”…eighth incarnation of Vishnoo was to destroy the giants. The Hebrews call the giants before the flood the Nephilim or apostates, the Gibborim or mighty men.

 

Those of Palestine are called the Anachim. They were beyond all dispute from nine to ten feet in stature. The origin of pagan fable is founded on facts stated by Moses.

 

Those monsters mocked at the Ark…These are the Rephaim or the dead, who sunk under the waters, and are now associated with all the inhabitants of hell. Job 26:5-6. Proverbs 2:18.

This comment from 1838 seems to be the sort which set the stage for the incoherent neo-theo-sci-fi which Nephilology has become.

It reminds me of pop-researcher Gary Wayne’s (whom I debated: Gary Wayne & Ken Ammi debate Nephilim & Giants) modus operandi which is to quote anything from anyone at any time in history and weave it together into a grand narrative via mere assertions.

They were, “gigantic in stature…Giants…of prodigious stature…giants or Titanes…giants…giants…giants….giants…nine to ten feet in stature.”

The translators of the Greek Septuagint/LXX rendered (did not translate, in this case) Nephilim as γιγαντες-gigantes yet, we know not why. Was it due to what Flavius Josephus puts as, “many angels of God accompanied with women and begat sons…the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians called giants” (Antiquities of the Jews 1.3.72-74).

Yet, it is not a simple as that Titans were called gigantes ergo since gigantes were very tall then Nephilim were very tall.

There are a lot of issues to consider including that there were more than one generation of Titans (if, that is, we can even correlate Titans to Nephilim—a big IF), some having a hundred arms, some having the lower bodies of serpents, etc.

Moreover, it is far too simplistic to merely assert that gigantes is a term used of Titans and (some) Titans very tall ergo, Nephilim were very tall. It is myopic since perhaps if such a correlation was being drawn it was due to Titans and Nephilim both being hybrids or both being tyrannical, etc.

In any case, Sutcliffe then tells us that the Palestinians, “called the Anachim” but just as he merely asserted that Nephilim were giants based on a text that does not even hint at a physical description of them, he merely jumps a timespan of millennia—jumping directly over the flood, not less—to assert as much.

Yet, while Nephilim were offspring of sons of God and daughters of men, Anakim were named after Anak, the son of Arba (Joshua 15:13). Nephilim lived strictly pre-flood, Anakim lived strictly post-flood. On the Angel view: Nephilim were hybrids, Anakim were just good ol’ fashioned humans.

Continuing on with mere assertions, he assures us based on his say so that, “They were beyond all dispute from nine to ten feet in stature.” Yet, we have no reliable physical description of Nephilim at all and contextually, the only physical description we have of Anakim is that they were, “tall” which is subjective to the average Israelite male who in those days was 5.0-5.3 ft.

I know not to what he refers by that, “The origin of pagan fable is founded on facts stated by Moses” but perhaps it is a reference to Numbers 13:32-33 which is an “evil report” stated by utterly unreliable man who were unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishers whom God rebuked.

I could certainly see “pagan fable” being premised upon that since it is therein, and only therein biblically, where we get a physical description of Nephilim having been very, very, very tall.

Yet, fable is all that it was—and that fable serves as the very backbone of neo-Nephilology which is none but neo-theo-sci-fi.

Lastly, Sutcliffe further merely asserts that Nephilim, “are the Rephaim” yet, Rephaim are a strictly post-flood fully human people group: a tribe of which Anakim were a clan.

That they are, “the dead, who sunk under the waters, and are now associated with all the inhabitants of hell” is based on a fallacy which is still very, very common: he fails to distinguish between a word and its root—akin to how some confuse definition or meaning with usage.

The root word repha is notoriously complex but, at the very least, ranges in meaning from dead to heal.

The word Rephaim was, again, used of a people group—which also went by various other regional titles, “Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim…Rephaim formerly lived there—but the Ammonites call them Zamzummim” (Deuteronomy 2:11, 21).

See my book What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim? A Styled Giantology and Nephilology for an entire chapter just on Rephaim and another just on Anakim.

It seemed to me that all of that needed to be reviewed due to that when Sutcliffe gets to the point of commenting about the ark, he asserts, “Moses gives us here the dimensions of the ark, 300 cubits long, 50 high, and 30 broad; and the cubit of those gigantic men from the elbow to the end of the long finger, could not be less than 30 inches.”

But even if (another big IF) Nephilim and/or Rephaim and/or Anakim were, “gigantic…Giants…of prodigious stature…giants…giants…giants…giants….giants…nine to ten feet in stature,” pray tell, what made Sutcliffe think that Moses was reckoning the a cubit based on their cubit?

He goes on to claim, “Others are of opinion that the antediluvian cubit was reckoned the third part of the stature of those men, who may be supposed to have been at least eight or nine feet high; so that according to these dimensions the ark must have been equal to ten or twelve first-rate ships of war” a, “Prodigious superstructure!”

He notes:

Of its existence, antiquity is agreed. Abydenus, and Berosus a priest of Babylon, and Herodotus have all recorded the fact. Vide Euseb. Præp. lib. 9. c. 11, 12.

Origen in Alexandria, and Jerome at Rome, have rebutted the objections started in their day.

The rest of my chapter about Sutcliffe deals with his comments about the flood.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page. You can comment here or on my Twitter page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

How to Live a Happy Life From a Leading Atheist – Daniel Dennett

This pertains to the article: David Marchese, How to Live a Happy Life From a Leading Atheist, New York Times, Aug. 25, 2023 AD.

The leading Atheist in view is Daniel C. Dennett—one of The Four my Little Ponies of Atheism—about whom Marchese tells us and Dennett is, “perhaps best known” as asserting, “there are no metaphysical mysteries at the heart of human existence, no magic nor God…Instead, it’s science and Darwinian evolution all the way down.”

Now, I’ll point out instantly that we’re told that thus saith Dennett How to Live a Happy Life without a premise: this is a case of one accidentally existing apes dictating to other accidentally existing apes how to live a happy accidental life: without even telling us up against being happy is preferred nor getting into the subjective nature of that concept—much less about that being happy, on Dennett’s worldview, refers to accidentally existing apes emotively subjectively interpreting the accidental byproducts of an accidental mixture of bio-neural-chemicals in our haphazardly evolved brain.

Marchese notes that in a book, Dennett, “traces the development of his worldview, which he is keen to point out is no less full of awe or gratitude than that of those more inclined to the supernatural.”

He quotes Dennett thusly, “I want people to see what a meaningful, happy life I’ve had with these beliefs.” Did you catch the emotively subjective qualifying terms? “I want…” much as if he would declare, “I like…vanilla ice-cream.”

Moreover, Dennett declares, “I don’t need mystery.” Of well, that’s nice—I suppose. Perhaps no one needs a mystery but as far as I know, Dennett isn’t omniscient so need or not, mysteries persist.

Marchese notes, “Right now it seems as if truth is in shambles…” but on Atheism, truth is accidental, as is our ability to discern it, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand that others do so either.

He then states, “let’s look at epistemology, the theory of knowledge” very well then, let’s. On Atheism engaging in epistemology is a subjective personal preference du jour. Sure, Dennett may, “want” do engage in it but he may also “want” to eat vanilla ice-cream: what of it?

He then wrote of, “fact” but since facts are nuggets of truth based on reality, then on Atheism, facts/truth/reality is/are accidental, as is our ability to discern it/them, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to it/them, nor to demand that others do so either.

Dennett was asked, “What did you mean by ‘tiny robots’?” and replied, “Each cell is a living agent of its own. It has a sort of agenda: It’s trying to stay alive” and that survival instinct is accidental, on Atheism—boy oh boy, good thing that the very first living thing was accidented with that instinct. Actually, it’s not a, “good thing” on Atheism since, like literally everything else, it just is. If the first living thing didn’t survive and we wouldn’t be there to discuss it then it would matter not.

Moreover, he noted, “It’s got to keep itself a supply of energy to keep going. It’s got a metabolism. It’s the descendant of a long ancestry of free-floating, living cells that had to fend for themselves, and they’ve all joined forces to make a multicellular body. Those are little robots.”

The statistics on life coming from non-life and that life just so happened to have a survival instinct and the ability to keep itself a supply of energy to keep going and a metabolism and actually no ancestry and that it fended for itself but then somehow multiplied and joined forces to make a multicellular body are the stuff of which Atheist cosmogenic—and biogenic—myths are told.

And, of course, this is the simple-simple-simple-simple-simplified version since each of those steps require a massive number of extremely fine tuned symbiotic interactions: all that just happened and just so happened to have happened the way that they just so happened to have happened.

Furthermore, “neurons reach out and grab other neurons and send signals to them” with, “trillions of motor proteins, and motor proteins are not alive…They march along on these little highways on the brain, carrying things around…the necessary materials to keep the cell going and to repair and to extend its dendrites…Life couldn’t exist without these little molecular machines — by the trillions…Human life and human consciousness are made possible by these incredibly brilliant consortia of little robots.”

Rewrite: accidentally existing neurons somehow know to reach out and grab other accidentally existing neurons and somehow know to send signals to them with trillions of accidentally existing motor proteins, and motor proteins are not alive…They somehow know to march along on these little accidentally existing highways on the accidentally existing brain, somehow knowing to carrying things around the accidentally existing necessary materials to accidentally keep the cell going and to somehow know to repair and to extend its dendrites accidentally existing life couldn’t accidentally exist without these little accidentally existing molecular machines — by the trillions, accidentally existing human life and accidental human consciousness are made accidentally possible by these incredibly accidentally brilliant consortia of little accidentally existing robots.

And that’s about all of the relevant portions about which I wanted to comment.

See my various books here.

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The WhyTheBookWins site on Nephilim and Giants

From the, “Knowledge Base” section of the, Why the Book Wins site comes the article, How Big Were the Giants in the Bible?

Due to the article’s title referencing “Giants,” the key questions are:

What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?

What’s the article’s author’s usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?

Do those usages agree?

Well, we get an idea of the author’s usage within the very first paragraph, “giants in the Bible…portrayed as towering figures…physical attributes…their size” thus, since the usage is about subjectively unusual height it has utterly nothing to do with the English Bible’s usage which is that it’s merely rendering, not even translating, Nephilim, in two verses, or Rephaim, in 98% of all others.

Another question is to what sorts of height we’re considering since subjectively unusual height is just that: subjective—subjective to what and how far above the subjective average are key questions.

We’re told of, “Goliath or the account of the Nephilim in Genesis 6:4. These references suggest that giants were present in ancient times, but the specifics of their size are not explicitly stated.”

Actually, to quote pop-Nephilologist Gary Wayne, “we don’t know how big Nephilim were…we don’t know how tall that they were.”

Of course, he still goes on and on and on (and on and on [and on and on]) about how Nephilim were “giants,” by which he’s referring to subjectively unusual height, since he sells tall-tales for a living.

The preponderance of the earliest data, the LXX, Dead Sea Scrolls, and Flavius Josephus, have Goliath at four cubits and a span, just shy of 7 ft.—subjective to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days.

We’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim.

Thus, we get an idea of the author’s usage of “Giants” again: just over one foot taller than the upper subjectively average height and the unknown—and noted that neither Goliath’s or the Nephilim’s heights were even noted, it was merely asserted that they were “Giants.”

“Goliath’s Height” is referenced and we’re told, “the exact height of Goliath is not mentioned, the Bible describes his armor as weighing around 125 pounds (56 kilograms). This suggests that Goliath was an imposing figure, possibly exceeding 6 feet 6 inches (198 centimeters) in height.”

This is tragically misinformed as Goliath’s is one of the only two specific heights we’re told in the Bible and we know about the discrepancy on that issue.

We’re also told of, “Og, King of Bashan” and how the Bible, “portrays Og as having a bed made of iron that measured approximately 13.5 feet (4.1 meters) long and 6 feet (1.8 meters) wide. While the length of his bed does not directly correlate to his height, it does indicate that Og was significantly larger than an average person.”

Indeed, we’re not told his height. Yet, that’s a conclusion based on various assumptions: I direct the interested reader to my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

When it comes to Nephilim, which Goliath and Og weren’t (they were both of the Rephaim) we’re told, “These Nephilim are often associated with giants” which biblically contextually reads as, “These Nephilim are often associated with Nephilim” and that “the exact size of the Nephilim is not stated, their presence suggests that they were extraordinary beings, surpassing the average human stature” which is an unfounded assertion.

We’re told about, “the context and perspective of ancient writers when interpreting the size of giants in the Bible. Ancient civilizations often employed hyperbolic language to emphasize a person’s strength or stature. Thus, the descriptions of giants may have been slightly exaggerated to convey their dominance and power” and yet, we were told of Nephilim, Og, and Goliath only the latter of which we have any reference to height at all—besides, of course, the “evil report” by unreliable guys whom God rebuked who just made up a tall-tale about Nephilim.

The article asks and answers, “How did giants come into existence?” and replies, “According to the Bible, giants were the offspring of the union between the sons of God and the daughters of men.” This is why the key questions are key since what the author did is to chase the English word “giants” around a Hebrew Bible and now ends up merely asserting that Rephaim, for example, resulted from, “the union between the sons of God and the daughters of men” for which there’s zero indication.

Likewise, the question, “Were there any giants after the flood?” is answered thusly, “The Bible does not mention the presence of giants after the Great Flood. It is commonly believed that the flood wiped out these extraordinary beings.” The author doesn’t seem to realize that Goliath and Og lived post-flood and were appealed to as “giants.” Yet, that merely makes for even more confused assertions in the article.

In short, the article note, “the Bible provides limited details about the size of giants” which, I suppose, means only two specific heights—but granting that the key questions must first be answered.

Now, the same site posted an article titled Where Did Giants in the Bible Come From? Which notes, “The term ‘giants’ mentioned in the Bible often refers to the Nephilim” which is quite accurate if by “often” what is meant is in only two verse—98% of the time it’s rendering “Rephaim.”

Moreover, “The Sons of Anak: Another group of giants…They are described as a race of giants” they are only “described as a race of giants” in that they were a clan of the Rephaim tribe but as for their size, all we’re told is that they were subjectively “tall” (Deut 2).

Yet, additionally, “In Numbers 13:33, the Israelite spies describe the Anakim as formidable and great in stature, causing fear among the Israelites.” This is too generic to be accurate since it wasn’t, “the Israelite,” twelves, “spies” but only the unreliable ones who were said to present an “evil report” and were rebuked by God—of yeah, and you don’t get them referring to Anakim at all in the LXX version of that verse. You also don’t get them described, “as formidable” in any version of that verse. As for, “great in stature” that was actually tall-taled about Nephilim.

Next up are the, “The Rephaim…a race of giants” yet, again, that either reads as, “The Rephaim…a race of Rephaim” or “The Rephaim…a race of” subjectively tall personages (Deut 2).

Furthermore, “The Amorites…In Amos 2:9-10, they are described as tall as cedar trees and strong as oaks, implying their giant-like stature.” Note the qualifying term “implying” when that was really an inference. Sure, Amos tells us that they were big and strong: what of it? Well, people who suffer from Gigorexia Nervosa (my term for people who are obsessed with seeing giants and just make them up where they’re nowhere to be seen) literally research the parochial size of cedars and demand that Amos was implying the conducting of a ration based mathematical correspondence—but no, they don’t do likewise with the strength of oaks since they’re not really interested in the text, they just want to hype the tall-tales.

Now, due to not dealing with the key issues up-front (or ever) when the article asks, “Did all giants perish in biblical times?” it could refer to Nephilim or to Rephaim or specifically to Anakim or to anyone who is subjectively unusually tall, etc.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here or on my Twitter page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Prepper Dave’s Unravelling The Mystery Of The Nephilim From Biblical Lore To Eternal Fascination

Prepper Dave’s article, “Unravelling The Mystery Of The Nephilim: From Biblical Lore To Eternal Fascination,” April 2, 2023.
Enigmatically, Prepper Dave begins with, “The enigmatic Nephilim have captivated our imaginations with their alleged connection to the spirits of giants” but since he jumped from the specific ancient Hebrew word Nephilim to the vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage modern English word giants: it’s tricky to know to whom he’s referring—much less what spirits have to do with it.

Clearly appealing to folklore from millennia after the Torah, he notes, “the Watchers – divine beings who sired gigantic offspring with mortal women, only to be imprisoned beneath rocks until their day of reckoning arrives.”

I could tell that he was referring to such folklore due to the employment of the term Watchers and he did go on to reference, “Jews of the Second Temple era.”

Now, due to the folklore, he refers to Nephilim as, “gigantic” and, “larger-than-life creatures.”
Now, he had referred to Nephilim’s, “connection to the spirits of giants” and goes on to write in terms of, “the Nephilim, some people believe these giants…” so that by giants he is referring to Nephilim.

Thus, his usage of giants is gigantic-larger-than-life creatures but that is not the usage of that word in modern English Bibles: it implies nothing about height whatsoever.

Prepper Dave notes, “some people believe these giants may have survived the Great Flood despite scripture suggesting otherwise. Some even speculate that their bloodline may have continued through trans-humanization or demonic interference in AI.”

The most well-known pop-researchers (and many scholarly ones) believe in post-flood Nephilim, despite scripture not suggesting but being crystal clear otherwise: see Genesis 7:7, 23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5.

Claiming post-flood Nephilim implies God failed: He meant to be rid of them but couldn’t get the job done, the flood was much of a waste, He missed a loophole whereby they survived or just came right back.

And then, one has to literally invent a story about how they returned such as the neo-theo-sci-fi-tall-tale about, “trans-humanization or demonic interference in AI.”

Prepper Dave notes, “The search for evidence of their existence continues, but so far, most remains found have belonged to mammoths due to their sheer size.” Yet, that is misguided since we don’t have a reliable physical description of Nephilim, for what are we searching? And, “sheer size” has nothing to do with it.

He asserts, “These powerful beings, also known as Anakim, Rephaim, and Nephilim, were described as giants or warlords in various sources.”

Well, if we’re appealing to generic various sources then anything goes. Yet, biblically, that is an inaccurate statement since Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids, Rephaim were strictly post-flood 100% humans, and Anakim were a clan of the Rephaim tribe.

There is a biblical correlation between Nephilim and Anakim but a biblical connection is a generic manner whereby to state it (which I used due to it being common parlance).

Such a correlation is recorded in the Bible after we are told that it was an assertion within an, “evil report” (Num 13:31-33) spoken by utterly unreliable guys whom God rebuked—and, by the way, there’s no such correlation in the LXX version of that text.

Again, Prepper Dave had written of Nephilim’s, “connection to the spirits of giants,” which bifurcated the two but then went on to write, “Nephilim…these giants…” and now went back to bifurcating them again by referring to Nephilim’s, “connection to angels, giants, and human-divine hybrids.”

He notes, “there’s no verse in the Bible that explains where demons came from” which is accurate. He is also quite correct that, “Christians typically assume that demons are fallen angels, cast from heaven with Satan (the Devil) right before the temptation of Adam and Eve. But guess what? There’s no such story in the Bible. The only description of anything like that is in Revelation 12:9—but the occasion for that whole episode was the birth of the Messiah (Rev 12:4-6), an event long after Adam and Eve. The idea of a primeval fall of angels actually comes from church tradition and the great English poet John Milton in his epic Paradise Lost.”

As for, “no verse in the Bible that explains where demons came from”: such is why most pop-researchers (and many scholarly ones) appeal to folklore from millennia after the Torah, such as the Bible contradicting 1 Enoch/Ethiopic Enoch (see my book In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch) which have demons/unclean spirits being the spirits of dead Nephilim.

For a Bible-based elucidation, see the article Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

What Rev 12 notes is that the war in heaven between loyal and fallen Angles is a post-Jesus’ ascension event—not a primordial one.

Yet, the fall of Angels is the Gen 6 affair and the fall of Satan (the Cherub, not Angel) is the Gen 3 affair.

Prepper Dave ends up commenting on Num 13:33, “the Nephilim appear again during Israel’s travels in the wilderness, which is supposed to be centuries after the Flood. If the Israelites saw the Nephilim in the land of Canaan, are we to assume that these are the offspring of the Nephilim from Genesis 6? Put differently, did the Nephilim survive the great Flood of Genesis 6–9?”

He is speaking too generically since even in that verse, that chapter, that text, there is no indication that, “the Israelites saw the Nephilim” but only that ten of them merely asserted that they saw them.

Thus, the, “are we to assume” questions are non-issues: Nephilim didn’t make it past the flood in any way, shape, or form—period, full stop.

He quotes 1 Enoch/Ethiopic Enoch to the effect that Nephilim were, “three thousand ells” which is MILES tall: great folklore, poor reality.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.

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Miryam Brand’s contribution to “Nephilim”

That which follows is Miryam Brand’s contribution to Nephilim published by De Gruyter, 2023.

Brand is the Visiting Assistant Professor of Judaic Studies and Religious Studies at Brown University, and holds a Ph.D. in Bible and Late Antiquity from New York University

Brand notes, “Nephilim play a central role in a popular Second Temple era story regarding the origin of evil: the myth of the Watchers (ʿīrîm). The depiction of the benê hāʾelōhîm who mate with human women in Gen 6:1–4 became the basis of an explanation of the origin of both the flood and of evil. In the fullest form of this story, angels mated with human women and produced giant children who caused destruction, while the angels themselves caused sin by teaching humans illicit knowledge. When the physical bodies of these giants were destroyed, they became evil spirits that plagued the earth.”

The Second Temple era was from 516 BC–70 AD which is millennia after the Torah and infamous for being a period of historical fiction, wild speculation, forgeries, or whatever that period’s folkloric tall-tales might be—such as folkloric tall-tales.

Watchers is a Second Temple era a.k.a. for Malakim/Angels/benê hāʾelōhîm/sons of God.

As for that they, “produced giant children” it must be asked:

What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?

What’s the Second Temple era’s general usage of whatever vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and term we have as the modern English word “giants”?

What’s Miryam Brand’s usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?

Do those usages agree?

Indeed, that dead Nephilim, “became evil spirits” a.k.a. demons, is folklore from millennia after the Torah. For a biblical view, please see the article, Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

They above questions are key since, for example, Brand wrote, “The identification of the angels’ offspring as giants relies on the reference to Nephilim in Gen 6:4, as the Nephilim are called giants in Num 13:33.”

In the English Bibles which employ it, “giants” is merely rendering (not even translating) “Nephilim” in two verses and, “Repha/im” in 98% of all others. Thus, that, “the Nephilim are called giants in Num 13:33” means, “the Nephilim are called Nephilim in Num 13:33.”

Not that it matters since that verse is part of an evil report by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.

Miryam Brand went on to write, “It also reflects the consistent Septuagint translation of all references to gībbōrîm, něfīlîm, benê ʿanāq, and rêfāʾîm as γίγας, giants. This translation itself is the result of a synthetic reading of Gen 6, Num 13:22, Num 13:28, Num 13:33, and Deut 2:10–11.”

But how it is consistent to render very different words with different morphologies and different meanings all by one single word: doing so was a terrible idea. In part, it leads undiscerning English readers to chase an English word around a Hebrew Bible.

Also, if the, “translation,” again, it is actually just a rendering, “of all references to…γίγας, giants” that begs the key questions of what, “γίγας, giants” means. That word, gigas related to gigantes and gigantos which are all references to Greek mythology’s false Earth goddess Gaia: with gigantes and gigantos referring to being earth-born as in born of Gaia.

She appears to be implying that gigas/gigantes/gigantos/giants has something to do with subjectively unusual height, which they do not:

Gen 6 refers to Nephilim but not to any height.

Num 13:22 merely notes where Anakim were living.

Num 13:28 refers to various “strong” people groups which included the Anakim.

Num 13:33 is a tall-tale about very, very tall Nephilim who, in non-LXX versions, are correlated to Anakim—which is impossible.

Deut 2:10–11 notes that the Rephaim tribe, including its Anakim clan, et al., were subjectively, “tall” compared to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days.

Miryam Brand further wrote, “At the same time, while the books of 1 Enoch and Jubilees identify the Nephilim of Gen 6:4 with the giants, the Damascus Document may imply that the term Nephilim indicates the angels themselves…This identification is based on the root n–f–l, ‘to fall,’ as a reference to the fallen angels. The vagueness of the verse at Gen 6:4 itself, which simply states that ‘the Nephilim were in the land during that time,’ can also support this secondary interpretation.”

This is all in the for what it’s worth category—which is not very much if anything at all.

1 Enoch, Jubilees, and the Dead Sea Scrolls Damascus Document are all from millennia after the Torah.

Again, “identify the Nephilim of Gen 6:4 with the” means, “identify the Nephilim of Gen 6:4 with the Nephilim.”

Moreover, “Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them” thus, it is simply not the case that, “the term Nephilim indicates the angels themselves” and that, “This identification is based on the root n–f–l” is just a word-concept fallacy or sorts.

As for, “that ‘the Nephilim were in the land during that time,’ can also support this secondary interpretation” well, that would make for an odd narrative indeed. The contextual focus of the Gen 6:1-4 narrative is the sons of God and daughters of men: their attraction, their marriages, their mating, and their offspring. But this view would have the author artificially interrupting the contextual focus on the narrative to throw in a passing reference to Nephilm who have nothing to do with it.

Or, rather, perhaps, it has it that, “Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the Nephilim came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them” who are unnamed.

Or, “Sons of God were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them” or, something.

Miryam Brand circuitously argues, “In the Greek of 1 En. 7:2, human women who have mated with the rebellious angels produce three kinds of creatures: ‘first large giants, and the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud’…The identification of the Nephilim in 1 En. 7:2 as the sons of giants reflects an unusual interpretation of Num 13:33a: ‘And there we saw the nephilim sons of giant(s) (haněfîlîm benê ʿanāq)’; this phrase was more commonly (and correctly) understood as referring to giant-like beings rather than the literal sons of giants.”

But this denotes the continued problem with employing the term giants since now, non-LXX versions are not referring to the Anakim, the sons of Anak (Arba’s son) clan but to Nephilim as sons of giants—just how may different words all mean giants?

For example, she refers to, “Nimrod the ‘giant’ (relying again on the Septuagint rendition in LXX Gen 10:8–9)” the Hebrew for which is gibbor.

She notes, “In 1 En. 15:8–11…while the physical bodies of the giants were killed, their spirits were tied to earth, and subsequently turned into evil spirits” a.k.a. demons. For a biblical view, please see the article, Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here or on my Twitter page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Dealing with the question: Why do Nephilims have 6 fingers?

The full question posted to the Quora site is: Why do Nephilims have 6 fingers? “If” they exists, what would such a creature have a purpose for these appendages?

Edward Smith commented

A. They didn’t have six fingers.

B. They were the hybrid offspring of angels and human women.

C. They all died in the Flood and never existed again.

D. Goliath was a freak, a mutant, if you like. A genetic aberration. Even today, people are born with six fingers, six toes or other mutations.

E. There have always been races of extra tall and extra short people.

I, Ken Ammi, replied

A. Agreed: that is stated about one single person and he was a Repha, not a Nephil.

B. Agreed.

C. Agreed.

D. I would not go that far. The Masoretic Text has Goliath at just shy of 10 ft. but the earlier LXX, and DDS, and Josephs have him at just shy of 7 ft. (and we’re not told he had extra digits). But yes, extra digits is just a simple mutation.

E. Indeed.

Edward Smith

1 Sam. 17:4 “Then a champion came out from the camps of the Phi·lisʹtines; his name was Go·liʹath, from Gath,+ and his height was six cubits and a span.”

“Goliath towered to the extraordinary height of six cubits and a span (9 feet 5.75 inches [c. 2.9 meters]). His copper coat of mail weighed 5,000 shekels (c. 126 pounds [c. 57 kilograms]) and the copper blade of his spear weighed 600 shekels (c. 15 pounds [c. 6.8 kilograms]). (1 Sam. 17:4, 5, 7) Goliath was one of the Rephaim; he may have been a mercenary soldier with the Philistine army.—” https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200011694?q=goliath&p=par

Long cubit (7 handbreadths)51.8 cm / 20.4 in.

Cubit (2 spans / 6 handbreadths)44.5 cm / 17.5 in.

Short cubit38 cm / 15 in.

1 Roman stadium1 ⁄ 8 Roman mile=185 m / 606.95 ft

1Fingerbreadth (1 ⁄ 4 handbreadth)1.85 cm / 0.73 in.

2Handbreadth (4 fingerbreadths)7.4 cm / 2.9 in.

3Span (3 handbreadths)22.2 cm / 8.75 in.

Most scholars agree on roughly 9,1/2ft. based on the cubit measure used by the Philistines.

There were four more wars with the Philistines, and giants and it was the fourth and final one with the extra digits, so you are quite correct there.

“War broke out yet again at Gath, where there was a man of extraordinary size, with 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot, 24 in all; and he too was a descendant of the Rephʹa·im.+ 21 He kept taunting Israel.+ So Jonʹa·than the son of Shimʹe·i,+ David’s brother, struck him down.

22 These four were descendants of the Rephʹa·im in Gath, and they fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants.” 2 Sam. 21:20–22. NWTST

Ken Ammi

I was just pointing out that some earlier sources have him as being shorter than a latter one.

But even if he was at the taller range, that has nothing to do with Nephilim and, again, he was a Repha.

His equipment doesn’t lend weight, pun intended, to option for the taller range however since you can watch strong-man or weightlifting competitions and see guys who are right around 6 ft. lifting 1,000 lbs. Also, Goliath had someone helping him with his equipment.

I would drop employing the English term “giants” since its modern usage is not the ancient meaning and since some English versions (following the LXX) render (not even translate) both “Nephilim” and “Rephaim” as such, it can cause confusion.

Indeed, one of Goliath’s sons had extra digits.

In any case, your “C.” point goes a long way of accrediting you since you may or may not be aware that 100% of the top-pop-researchers claim post-flood Nephilim. They do so after claiming that the flood God getting rid of them. Thus, they (consciously or not) imply that God failed.

Edward Smith

I think we agree Ken. I appreciate your research and we may meet again on other threads.

Ken Ammi

Shalom! BTW: I’ve written various books on these issues so if you want to stop by, I’ll cut you a deal: truefreethinker.com

Howard Aitchison chimed in with

A. How do you know?

B. It doesn’t say that.

C. Nope. Numbers 13:32–33, “And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim; and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

D. Supposition.

E. Finally we agree on something.

Ken Ammi

Most interesting.

A. “Agreed: that is stated about one single person and he was a Repha, not a Nephil”: which I know since that is stated about one single person and he was a Repha, not a Nephil, see 2 Samuel 21:20 wherein your English Bible might have “born to the giant” wherein “giant” is rendering “Repha” and someone born to a Reha is a Repha by definition.

B. “They were the hybrid offspring of angels and human women”: there are a lot of things not said that are still the case—anywhere, about anything—so perhaps we can begin with who the “sons of God” are in Job 38:7.

C. “They all died in the Flood”: Genesis 7:7, 23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5.

“and never existed again”: based on no reliable post-flood reference to them.

You’re basing your view on two un-contextual verses, the only ones to which you can appeal, from an “evil report” stated by unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishers whom God rebuked. Such is why I qualified my statement by noting, “NO RELIABLE post-flood reference to them.”

D. That’s the opposite of a supposition, it’s demonstrable: just check those sources wherein they refer to his height.

Well, that ended it as no more replies were forthcoming.

See my various books here.

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B. J. Oropeza’s Patheos article: Who Are, “Giants” in the Bible? Understanding the Nephilim of Genesis 6 and Numbers 13

We will herein review Prof. B. J. Oropeza’s article, “Who Are, “Giants” in the Bible? Understanding the Nephilim of Genesis 6 and Numbers 13,” Patheos, March 26, 2023: Oropeza is a Professor of Biblical and Religious Studies at Azusa Pacific University.

Oropeza begins by noting, “In the Old Testament of the Bible we read about giants who lived on the earth (Genesis 6; Numbers 13). These extra-large humans are called in Hebrew the Nephilim, though other names for giants include the Rephaim and the Anakim.”

Thus, by the vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage modern English word, “giants,” Oropeza is referring to personages mentioned in Genesis 6 and Numbers 13 who are Nephilim in the former and Nephilim and/or Anakim in the latter (depending on the rendering and well, Anakim in the latter as per non-LXX versions).

Yet, Oropeza also means, “extra-large humans” ranging from, “Nephilim” to, “Rephaim and the Anakim.”

Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids. The Num 13 verse about them (v. 33) is from an, “evil report” by utterly unreliable guys whom God rebuked so we shouldn’t believe them and that is the only place wherefrom we get that Nephilim were, “extra-large” so we must reject that as well.

In short (pun intended), we’ve no reliable physical description of them.

From non-LXX versions of that, “evil report,” we also get a correlation between Nephilim and Anakim so, we must reject that as well.

Rephaim were strictly post-flood humans, the tribe of which Anakim were a clan, who were taller, on average, than 5.0-5.3 ft.

Thus, there is no reliable correlation between Nephilim, Rephaim, and Anakim and no reliable indication that any of them were, “extra-large”—yet, I grant that, “extra-large” is a subjective term.

B. J. Oropeza wrote, “The Hebrew word נְפִלִים [Nephilim] is left untranslated as Nephilim in most English Versions…However, the King James Version, New King James Version, the Septuagint (LXX), as well as the Latin Vulgate, translate this word as ‘giants’ after the Greek word, γίγαντες (gigantes).”

That is a bit problematic since the LXX and Vulgate do not translate as, “giants” since that’s an English word but the LXX is Greek and the Vulgate is Latin.

Rather, both of those render (don’t even translate) as, “gigantes” which, Oropeza does not tell us means, “earth-born.”

Neither the Hebrew, nor Greek, nor Latin, nor English are telling us anything about height whatsoever: such is not the case with the usage of, “gigantes” nor, “giants.” B. J. Oropeza ends up noting, “the meaning of the word Nephilim gives us little to go on regarding their stature.”

Oropeza states that one, “speculation about the origin of the term Nephilim…is that these beings were the offspring of the sons of God, who were fallen angels” and that, “It is then inferred from this that these offspring grew exceptionally large” but we have not been given any reliable reason to think that they were subjectively unusually tall.

From that, we are quickly told, “ancient Jewish and Christian sources…mention the giants (compare 1 Enoch 6–11; 15–16; Jubilees 5:1–10; 7:21–22; Testament of Reuben 5.5–6; Philo, Questions on Genesis I.92; Justin Martyr, Second Apology 5).”

That is a bit misleading since what is ancient to us is still from millennia after the Torah. Thus, they are all very much latter-day tall-tales.
B. J. Oropeza wrote, “either God completely wiped them out in the Flood” or, “they may have been in some sense predecessors of the giants who were later destroyed by the Israelites” but there is zero reliable indication of any such a thing: and it implies that God failed—He meant to be rid of them but couldn’t get the job done, He must have missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc.

On this point, B. J. Oropeza tells us, “When Moses sent the twelve tribal leaders to spy out the land of Canaan, they brought back a discouraging report in Numbers 13:32–33: ‘The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim)…’”

But that is misleading since it was not, “the twelve” who said that but ten of them: the ten unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishers who presented an, “evil report” and were rebuked by God: they just made up a fear-mongering scare-tactic tall-tale.

But Oropeza does go on to write of, “the spies who were lying or at best exaggerating.”

Yet, we are told, “This passage connects the Nephilim with the Anakim” which is not the case in the LXX, by the way. Also, it matters not since it was just a tall-tale which contradicted Moses, Caleb, Joshua, God, and the rest of the whole Bible.

We are told Anakim, “latter are comparable in size with the Rephaim” but biblically, we are told that Rephaim, in general (to include Anakim) were, “tall” but that’s subjective to being taller than the average Israelite male who, in those days, were 5.0-5.3 ft.

B. J. Oropeza notes, “Og, king of Bashan, was a Rephaite whose bed or sarcophagus measured 9 by 4 cubits (perhaps thirteen feet long and six feet wide: Deut 3:11).” Indeed, we don’t have a reliable physical description of him: see my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

Moreover, we are told, “The gigantic Philistine warrior, Goliath, was said to be…4.5 cubits is not too impressive (a little over 6 1/2 feet tall based on the Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls : 4Q Sam [1 Sam 17:4]). The Hebrew and Vulgate texts have him at 6.5 cubits (over 9 1/2 feet tall).”

Indeed, the LXX and Dead Sea Scrolls and Flavius Josephus have him at just shy of 7 ft. (again, compared to 5.0-5.3 ft.) but the latter Vulgate and Masoretic have him taller.
B. J. Oropeza notes, “the size of these giants in no way compares with the Nephilim of Genesis 6 as described in non-canonical books, such as the Damascus Document (Dead Sea Scrolls)—these giants are the height of cedars and their bodies like mountains (CD 2.18–19). Even more impressive (or unbelievable) is 1 Enoch 7 that has them at three hundred cubits high…”

Indeed, in order to get very, very tall Nephilim one has to either believe utterly unreliable guys whom God rebuked or appeal to folklore from millennia later.

Incidentally, 1 Enoch does not have them at, “three hundred cubits” but rather, at 3,000 ells which is MILES tall which his great folklore but poor reality—see my book In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

Note carefully how Oropeza answers, “Did Descendants of the Nephilim Exist After the Flood?” which is, “Did the Nephilim survive the great Flood of Genesis 6–9? In Numbers 13:33, however, their name appears again.”

Of course, that the name (a word) appeared has no correlation to whether they were actually alive at the time.

Furthermore, “the event of Israel’s travels in the wilderness, depicted in Numbers, occurs centuries after the Flood. If the Israelites saw the Nephilim in the land of Canaan, are we to assume that the offspring survived the flood of Noah?”

Oddly, Oropeza already identified the ten spies as, “lying or at best exaggerating” and actually read, “Nephilim” as a reference to, “Anakim” yet, now that very same single verse from an, “evil report” serves as the premise for possible post-flood Nephilim.

So, “are we to assume that the offspring survived the flood of Noah?” well, only if we want to contradict the Bible five times: Genesis 7:7, 23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5.

As for, “Flood Survivors?” we are told, “If we assume this to be the case (and not an inconsistency), the great Flood may be understood as a local one, affecting the region of Mesopotamia but not other regions.”

Well, the scope of the flood is actually irrelevant to Nephilology since they either didn’t survive it because it was global or because they lived in the flooded region: either way, they didn’t make it past the flood in any way, shape, or form.

Oropeza notes, “it could be surmised that some of the Nephilim escaped the flood” but that would be, “inconsistency.”

Yet, it is noted, “Some scholars interpret the phrase, ‘and also afterward’ in Genesis 6:4 as referring to a time after the Flood, anticipating mention of the Nephilim in Numbers 13:33.”

Yet, such scholars are mistaken since, again, it contradicts the Bible five times and it also violates the context. The, “afterward” statement has nothing to do with the flood—in fact, the flood isn’t even mentioned for the very first time until a full 13 vss. later, v. 17.

The, “afterward” is, “afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them” which was, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them” as per v. 1.

Thus, it simply informs us that such mating took place initially, at the v. 1 timestamp, and thereafter, such that they kept taking place: but that is all pre-flood.
At least B. J. Oropeza tells us, “this interpretation is hard to reconcile with the context of Genesis 6—9, which depicts the flood as wiping out all human life except Noah’s family (Gen 6:5—7:23; esp. 7:19).”

Oropeza thinks that, “Consistent with this view, the phrase ‘and also afterward’ could mean that the Nephilim were living at the time before the Flood and also ‘after’ the advent of the sons of God.”

Yet, that is too much of a stretch: especially since the contextual focus of the narrative are the son of God and daughters of men—their attraction, marriages, and offspring. Thus, it would make for an odd narrative if Nephilim were artificially inserted into it as if merely happenstantially and with nothing more being said about them that they just so happened to be around at the time.

B. J. Oropeza does note, “this alternative explanation does not explain how the Nephilim reappear in Numbers 13” but we already have an answer to that: one that is given to us by the narrative of Num chaps 13 and 14.

We are told that an option is that, “the Nephilim in Genesis 6 and Numbers 13 are two unrelated peoples who happen to have the same name. But this seems unlikely, given the great stature of both peoples…Nephilim are only named as such because they share characteristics in common with the older Nephilim: great size.”

But, again, we have no reliable indication that Nephilim were of subjectively, “great stature…great size” and we also know that, “great stature…great size” can refer to merely being taller than 5.0-5.3 ft.

B. J. Oropeza circles back to the, “evil report” again and emphasizes, “Perhaps a better explanation of this sort is that the spies reported false information in Numbers 13” and only then specifies that it was, “The ten spies” and refers to their assertions as, “a negative report” which was, “clearly exaggerated” (to say the least).

Thus, “If their report implies false information, they may have lied when they claimed that the Anakim were descendants of the Nephilim.”

Yet, B. J. Oropeza still relies on that report, in a way, since the sentence I just quoted is followed directly with, “Granted, they may have appeared to be similar to the Nephilim of old because of their great size” but, again, they only ways to get, “great size” (whatever that means) for Nephilim are:

1) Commit a word-concept fallacy by assuming that the words gigantes or giants are informing us about some unknown level of subjectively unusual height.

2) Actually believing the evil report.

3) Relying on folklore from millennia after the Torah.

Oropeza notes, “Ashley writes, ‘As the text stands [Num 13:31–33] it is clear that the majority report [of the spies] is condemned as false and faithless.’ (Timothy R. Ashley, The Book of Numbers, NICOT; 1993:243).”

Amen! And I collected various such statements by scholars in my book What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim? A Styled Giantology and Nephilology.

Oropeza ends by assuring us, “Frankly, if you are a believer in Christ, I really don’t think it matters much which position you prefer, since none of these should really have a bearing on your faith.”

Yet, fallacious Nephilology actually leads to fallacious bibliology and fallacious theology proper. That is because in order to get post-flood Nephilim, one has to imply that God failed and has to mishandle and manipulate texts toward a grand-narrative tall-tale.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.

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