Review of D. Gene Williams, Jr., PhD on Sons of God and the Nephilim: A Study in Biblical Rebellion and Redemption

D. Gene Williams, Jr., PhD, of Defend the Word Ministries related to North Pointe Church is a, “Trinity School of the Bible and Theological Seminary, Alumnus.”

He wrote an article titled, Sons of God and the Nephilim: A Study in Biblical Rebellion and Redemption the parts we will focus on being the relevant data regarding Sons of God and the Nephilim.

The abstract notes, “The Nephilim, enigmatic figures mentioned in Genesis 6:1–4 and Numbers 13:33, have long sparked theological and scholarly debate regarding their identity and significance in biblical narratives” with the plural narratives being those two verses.

He notes, “The discussion is framed around two primary interpretative views: the supernatural perspective, which sees the Nephilim as the hybrid offspring of angelic beings and humans, and the Sethite view, which identifies them as the result of intermarriage between the godly line of Seth and the ungodly line of Cain.”

It is also noted, “The paper also examines references to the Nephilim in the New Testament” which is surely a unique claim.

“THE TWO MAIN INTERPRETATIVE VIEWS” subsection elucidates:

The Supernatural View: “Sons of God” as Angelic Beings

Scriptural Basis:

The phrase “sons of God” (bene ha’elohim) appears elsewhere in the Old Testament, particularly in Job 1:6 and 2:1, where it unambiguously refers to angelic beings. This lends credence to the interpretation that the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 are also supernatural entities.

I would put it thusly, “The Paranormal View: “Sons of God” as Angels” since that was the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the “Angel view” as I proved in my book, On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

Also, because technically, the only super natural being is God since He alone wholly transcends nature, His creation, from eternity.

A better citation of Job would be that Job 38:7, as one example, shows us that, sons of God can refer to non-human beings (which the LXX has as Angeloi: plural of Angelos) since they, at the very least, witnessed the creation of the Earth.

The end of the, “supernatural entities” sentence included a citation of Dr. Michael Heiser’s book The Unseen Realm (pp. 102-104) which is good and bad news. Overall, William’s article cites Heiser 29 times. The good is that Heiser was a credentialed and experienced ancient languages scholar. The bad is that his Nephilology was not wholly biblical and he tended to create more problems than he solved—see these articles for examples:

Review of Amy Richter and Michael Heiser on four Enochian Watcher related women in Jesus’ genealogy

Rebuttal to Dr. Michael Heiser’s “All I Want for Christmas is Another Flawed Nephilim Rebuttal”

I also included him in my book, The Scholarly Academic Nephilim and Giants: What do Scholarly Academics Say About Nephilim Giants?

It is also noted, “Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4 reference rebellious angels, often tied to the Genesis 6 narrative in Jewish and Christian tradition, strengthening this view.”

Indeed, Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated, and there is only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible. So, if the Gen 6 affair (as I term it) was not that sin then no one knows to what Jude and Peter were referring.

We are also told, “The Book of Enoch, an influential Second Temple text, explicitly describes the ‘Watchers’ (angelic beings) descending to earth, marrying human women, and producing hybrid offspring—the Nephilim. Other ancient Jewish sources, such as the Book of Jubilees and the Genesis Apocryphon, elaborate on this narrative, portraying the Nephilim as giant offspring and emphasizing their role in increasing wickedness on earth.”

Certainly, they, “explicitly describe” and, “elaborate” but those are folkloric tall-tales from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah and oft contradict the Bible—see my books In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch and The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts.

As for, “giant offspring” we will have to see if D. Gene Williams, Jr. provides us answers to these key questions: What is the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What is his usage? Do those two usages agree?

We seem to get a hint at his usage when he follows directly with, “The supernatural view identifies the Nephilim as the literal offspring of the union between angelic beings and human women, resulting in beings of extraordinary power, stature, and influence” if by stature he is referring to height and we get more than a hint, it is quite blunt, when he continues by referring to, “Nephilim’s…association with physical gigantism (Numbers 13:33).”

We might as well deal with this now: the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word giants in English Bibles is that it merely renders (does not even translate) Nephilim in 2 verses or Repha/im in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.

Williams, Jr. usage is something generic about vague height at some unknown level above the subjective parochial average—which would be a usage that is as useless as it sounds.

Thus, Williams, Jr. usage does not agree with the English Bibles’ usage.

As for, gigantism in Numbers, we will burn that bridge when we get to it.

The other reviewed view is:

The Sethite View : “Sons of God” as the Godly Line of Seth

In this view, the “sons of God” are understood as the descendants of Seth, the godly line from which worship of Yahweh continued. The “daughters of humans” are interpreted as the descendants of Cain, representing moral corruption and rebellion against God.

Intermarriage Leading to Moral Decline:

The union between the godly line of Seth and the ungodly line of Cain resulted in spiritual compromise and widespread sin. This mixing of righteous and unrighteous lineages mirrors other biblical warnings about intermarriage with unbelievers (e.g., Deuteronomy 7:3–4, 2 Corinthians 6:14).

The Sethite view is a late comer based on myth and prejudice. For example, there was no such thing as, “the godly line” nor, “descendants of Cain, representing moral corruption and rebellion against God” nor, “righteous and unrighteous lineages.”

Moreover, this view implies that the godly line were not godly after all since they were such terrible sinners that their sin served as the premise for the flood: so, that is rather odd.

When it comes to the, “IDENTITY OF THE NEPHILIM” Williams, Jr. notes:

Etymology of the Term “Nephilim”: Hebrew Root npl ( ָנַפל): Two Views

“To Fall” (Naphal)

The term Nephilim is widely understood to derive from the Hebrew root npl (נפל), meaning “to fall.” In this interpretation, Nephilim is a passive form in the qatil pattern, rendering the meaning “fallen ones.” This view aligns with the idea of beings who have fallen morally or spiritually, possibly rebellious angels cast down from heaven or humans symbolizing corruption and decline. Scriptural usage of npl elsewhere supports this connotation, often denoting physical or moral descent (e.g., Genesis 4:6; Isaiah 14:12).

“Giant” (Aramaic Naphila)

Michael Heiser and others suggest Nephilim could derive from the Aramaic word naphila, which translates to “giant.” This interpretation ties the Nephilim to extraordinary physical stature and strength. The Septuagint (LXX) supports this perspective by translating Nephilim as gigantes (“giants”). However, critics argue this term reflects later interpretative traditions rather than the original meaning of the Hebrew text. The reliance on naphila is contested due to its absence in pre- biblical texts and its speculative link to Hebrew usage.

Note how what we are left with regarding naphila (also transliterated as naphiyla) is a circle since, “translates to ‘giant’…Septuagint (LXX)…translating Nephilim as gigantes (giants’)” still only begs the question what does giants mean, what is its usage?

If naphila means giants what does that mean?

If gigantes means giants what does that mean?

Well, the J. Edward Wright Endowed Professor of Judaic Studies, who is J. Edward Wright, Ph.D. himself, and who is the Director of the Arizona Center for Judaic Studies at the University of Arizona notes, “The term traditionally translated as ‘giants’ in both the Greek Septuagint (γιγαντες) and now in English is נפילים nephilim, a term based on the root נפל npl meaning ‘fall.’ It has nothing to do with size” and specifies that this goes for both Hebrew and Aramaic as, “The root npl in Aramaic also means fall and not giants” (Private communique, July 2019).

And, gigantes actually means earth-born.

Thus, to re-write, “Nephilim could derive from the Aramaic word naphila, which translates to ‘fall.’ This interpretation ties the Nephilim to extraordinary physical stature and strength. The Septuagint (LXX) supports this perspective by translating Nephilim as gigantes (‘earth-born’).”

Moreover, D. Gene Williams, Jr. noted, “The connection to naphila as ‘giant’ is compelling in light of the Septuagint but remains uncertain due to the absence of direct evidence linking it to early Hebrew tradition.”

He moves on to:

The Nephilim are introduced in a narrative describing the union of the “sons of God” and the “daughters of humans.” The text identifies the Nephilim as “heroes of old, men of renown.” The ambiguity in this passage leaves room for interpretation regarding whether the Nephilim were offspring of these unions or coexistent figures in the antediluvian world.

Well, there is no room left since the Gen 6 affair narrative’s contextual focus is the sons of God and daughters of men: their attraction, their marriage, and their offspring. Thus, it would violate that narrative’s contextual focus to artificially insert a mere passing reference to some unrelated Nephilim guys who just happened to be around at the time, are mentioned for no apparent reason, and about whom nothing more is said in relation to the narrative’s contextual focus.

He then comments:

Numbers 13:33

Here, the Nephilim are mentioned as the ancestors of the Anakim, described as giants who instilled fear in the Israelite spies. The spies’ report emphasizes their immense size and the Israelites’ perceived inferiority, describing themselves as “grasshoppers” in comparison.

Characteristics and Depictions in the Biblical Text

“Heroes of Old, Men of Renown” (Genesis 6:4)

The Nephilim are portrayed as figures of great fame and power, possibly legendary rulers, warriors, or demigods. Their “renown” implies a status that set them apart from ordinary humans. This description aligns with ancient Near Eastern traditions of semi-divine heroes, such as those in Mesopotamian mythology, while maintaining a distinct theological focus on human corruption.

Giants in Numbers 13:33

The spies’ description of the Nephilim as giants associates them with physical enormity and an intimidating presence. While the term gigantes in the Septuagint reinforces this view, some argue it reflects an exaggerated fear narrative rather than an objective description. The connection to the Anakim further supports the idea of the Nephilim as a race of giants, continuing their legacy in post-Flood contexts.

The term ְנִפיִלים (Nephilim) has been the subject of extensive lexical, contextual, and theological analysis. Major lexicons, dictionaries, and ancient translations overwhelmingly favor the interpretation of Nephilim as “giants,” posing significant challenges to the Sethite view, which traditionally downplays their extraordinary nature.

Let us unpack these hugely problematic assertions.

Williams, Jr. has watered down and mashed together two sets of spies and two reports into one. It was not, “fear in the Israelite spies” nor, “The spies’ report” since there were 12 spies but the ones who exhibited “fear” were, “the” 10, “Israelite spies” who were unreliable, unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishers and they are the ones who presented the second report in that chapter, “The” 10, “spies’” evil, “report” which consists of five assertions that are unbacked by even one single over verse in the whole Bible.

Thus, unreliable guys in an unreliable sentence in an unreliable report are the ones quoted in Num 13:33 so the, “Here” is their evil report where, “Nephilim are mentioned as the ancestors of the Anakim” and yet, that is myopic since, for some reason, Williams, Jr. did not mention that such is only as per non-LXX versions of that evil report since the LXX does not mention Anakim there.

As for, “described as giants who instilled fear in the Israelite spies” well, contextually, what instilled fear in the 10 Israelite spies was the prospect of facing six strong people groups living in large and well-fortified cities.

The original, reliable, accepted as is, report listed whom they actually saw, “the descendants of Anak…Amalekites…Hittites…Jebusites…Amorites…And the Canaanites” not a word about Nephilim.

And as for, “described as giants” to which Williams, Jr. generically adds, “The spies’ report emphasizes their immense size” the original, reliable, accepted as is, report emphasized strength, not size, and in their initial discouragement, the 10 agreed that it was about strength, “the people who dwell in the land are strong…Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said, ‘Let us go up at once and occupy it, for we are well able to overcome it.’ Then the men who had gone up with him said, ‘We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we are.’”

It is then that we are told that they, the 10, presented an evil/bad report and they took it up a notch by merely asserting they saw Nephilim and something about height.

And note that, “immense size” is just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as, “giant.”

Moreover, Williams, Jr. wrote:

Giants in Numbers 13:33

The spies’ description of the Nephilim as giants associates them with physical enormity and an intimidating presence. While the term gigantes in the Septuagint reinforces this view, some argue it reflects an exaggerated fear narrative rather than an objective description. The connection to the Anakim further supports the idea of the Nephilim as a race of giants, continuing their legacy in post-Flood contexts.

The term ְנִפיִלים (Nephilim) has been the subject of extensive lexical, contextual, and theological analysis. Major lexicons, dictionaries, and ancient translations overwhelmingly favor the interpretation of Nephilim as “giants,” posing significant challenges to the Sethite view, which traditionally downplays their extraordinary nature.

Again, it was not generically, “The spies’ description” so that is misleading, it was the 10.

Biblically contextually, “Nephilim as giants” means, “Nephilim as Nephilim.”

And, “physical enormity” is just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as, “immense size,” and “giant.”

As we noted, “the term gigantes in the Septuagint” only directly tells us that they were earth-born.

Also, there is no reliable, “connection to the Anakim.”

While the Sethite view is fallacious, Williams, Jr. does not make a good argument against it via, “the interpretation of Nephilim as ‘giants,’ posing significant challenges to the Sethite view” since his statement is actually, “the interpretation of Nephilim as some unknown level above the subjective parochial average,’ posing significant challenges to the Sethite view” which it does not since the dirty little secret is that since we have no reliable physical description of Nephilim then their height is a non-issue and that alone debunks 99% of un-biblical Nephilology—the modern branch of which is just un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales.

The only physical description we have of them is, “we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them” and that is from one unreliable sentence from an unreliable evil report by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.

Now, “the idea of the Nephilim as a race of giants, continuing their legacy in post-Flood” is a logically, bio-logically, and theo-logically incoherent view that damages theology proper.

D. Gene Williams, Jr. very specifically pointed out, “Nephilim, as products of this [Angelic] rebellion, symbolize the corruption and disorder introduced into creation, contributing to the moral decay that necessitated the Flood. It emphasizes God’s judgment…The Flood as Divine Judgment…The judgment of the Flood (Genesis 6:5–8) is presented as a direct response to the corruption caused by this supernatural-human interaction” (emphasis added for emphasis).

Thus, it was Nephilim (in part) who, “necessitated the Flood” as that was, “God’s judgment” which was the, “judgment of the Flood” as, “a direct response.”

And yet, he just taught, “Nephilim…post-Flood” which clearly implies that God failed, missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

He will also have to artificially invent some sort of un-biblical fantasy tall-tale story about how they got past the flood, past God.

So, the implications are that Nephilim, “necessitated the Flood” but it did not work, that was, “God’s judgment…judgment of the Flood” but it was much of a waste, it was, “a direct response” but God failed.

Williams, Jr. then circles back to linguistics:

LEXICAL EVIDENCE SUPPORTING “GIANTS”

Key Lexicons:

Lexham Research Lexicon (2020): Defines Nephilim as “giants,” reinforcing their connection to larger-than-life figures in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33.

Brown-Driver-Briggs (BDB) Lexicon (1977): BDB aligns with the Septuagint in interpreting Nephilim as “giants.” While it mentions a possible derivation from the root נפל (npl) (“to fall”), this is deemed “dubious” and secondary to contextual evidence of physical stature and renown.

Gesenius’ Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon (2003): Critiques the “fallen ones” interpretation, favoring “giants” or “those who fall upon” (attackers). Gesenius emphasizes the extraordinary stature and renown of Nephilim, consistent with Numbers 13:33.

Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT, 1994–2000): HALOT emphasizes “giants” as the primary meaning, closely tied to the biblical descriptions of the Nephilim as renowned, physically imposing figures.

Horst Seebass, Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament (1998): Explores the root נפל and its usage, noting the possibility of connections to “falling,” but focuses on the term’s contextual meaning as referring to figures of renown and imposing stature.

The Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Hebrew Bible (2017): Highlights “giants” as the dominant interpretation, grounded in biblical context and later Jewish traditions.

Wörterbuch Zum Alten Testament (2009): Concurs with major lexicons, defining Nephilim as “giants” without linking them to moral or spiritual fallenness.

Concise and Classical Dictionaries

The Dictionary of Classical Hebrew (1993–2011): Identifies Nephilim as “giants,” consistent with ancient translations and emphasizing their imposing physicality.

The Concise Dictionary of Classical Hebrew (2009): Similarly defines Nephilim as “giants,” underscoring their renown in biblical accounts.

James Swanson, Dictionary of Biblical Languages (1997): Defines Nephilim as a “renowned race of giants,” noting the theological debate but emphasizing their physicality.

Walter A. Elwell and Philip Wesley Comfort, Tyndale Bible Dictionary (2001): Describes the Nephilim as giants, emphasizing their supernatural associations and their significance in Genesis 6:4.

James Hastings, Dictionary of the Bible (1909): Notes the Nephilim as figures of immense physical stature, whose legendary reputation aligns with the translation “giants.”

M. G. Easton, Illustrated Bible Dictionary (1893): Supports the traditional understanding of Nephilim as giants, drawing on the Septuagint and biblical context.

Theological and Interpretative Resources

P. W. Coxon, Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (1999): Provides a detailed analysis, tying the Nephilim to semi-divine giants and mythological figures common in Ancient Near Eastern traditions. This source emphasizes their extraordinary nature and their association with divine rebellion in Second Temple texts.

William B. Nelson Jr., Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible (2000): Highlights the Nephilim as giants and ties them to their portrayal in Second Temple literature, where they are seen as symbols of divine-human boundary transgression

Ancient Translations Reinforcing the Supernatural View

Septuagint (LXX): Translates Nephilim as γίγαντες (gigantes), emphasizing their physical stature and mythological resonance as “giants.”

Jerome’s Latin Vulgate: Translates Nephilim as gigantes meaning giants. “gigantes autem erant super terram in diebus illis postquam enim ingressi sunt filii Dei ad filias hominum illaeque genuerunt isti sunt potentes a saeculo viri famosi “

Years ago, I filled my book Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010 with such sources and many more. Thus, I can very easily spot the glaring errors: I will focus on two:

“giants” generically as, “larger-than-life” due to, “Numbers 13:33.”

“giants” generically as, “physical stature.”

“giants” generically as, “extraordinary stature” due to, “Numbers 13:33.”

“giants” generically as, “physically imposing.”

“falling” generically as, “imposing stature.”

“giants” due to, “biblical context” without elucidation, “and later Jewish traditions” from folklore from millennia after the Torah.

“giants” generically.

“giants” generically as, “imposing physicality.”

“giants” generically.

“giants” generically as, “their physicality.”

“giants” generically.

“giants” generically as, “immense physical stature.”

“giants” generically due to, “drawing on the Septuagint and biblical context” which is unelucidated.

“giants” generically as, “their extraordinary nature.”

“giants” generically due to, “their portrayal in Second Temple literature” which is folklore from millennia after the Torah.

“giants” generically as, “γίγαντες (gigantes)…physical stature.”

“giants” generically as the Latin, “gigantes” which is merely picking up the Greek.

So, from those sources, we got generic terminology and reliance on an evil report and late-dated folklore.

One cannot just read those sources, one must dissect them: how are they using giants and why are they using it in the manner in which they are using it?

Yet, Williams, Jr.’s take away is, “This reflects an interpretive tradition emphasizing the Nephilim as extraordinary figures in both size and renown” which is unwarranted.

He again emphasizes, “While Neofiti” referring to one of the Targumim (this one is from the 1st-4th centuries AD), “uses ‘sons of the judges’ instead of ‘sons of God,’ it retains the concept of giants, aligning with the Septuagint’s γίγαντες (gigantes)” which is not helpful since that merely means, “aligning with the Septuagint’s” earth-born.

For some unknown reason, the LXX employs gigantes to render Nephilim and gibborim and Rephaim and it was a tragically bad idea to render three very different words of very different morphologies and very different meaning with just one single word.

And we know that gibborim has nothing to do with at some unknown level above the subjective parochial average because it is merely a descriptive term for might/mighty and we know that it does not imply anything about size since Nephilim are referred to as gibborim (Genesis 6:4), sure, but so are Nimrod (Genesis 10:8), Angels (Psalm 103:20), Boaz (Ruth 2:1), some of King David’s soldiers (1 Chronicles 11:11), even God Himself (Isaiah 9:6).

Therefrom, we went even further into that about which I wrote in my article How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory.

Williams, Jr. makes reference to 1 Enoch which has Nephilim being MILES tall, which is great folklore but poor reality.

Dead Sea Scrolls, “References…Nephilim (e.g., in the Book of Giants) emphasize their extraordinary stature” as per late-dated folklore.

Also, “Texts like the Book of Jubilees and Genesis Apocryphon echo 1 Enoch’s themes” and are also late-dated folklore.

At least not even 1 Enoch has physical post-flood Nephilim but Jubilees has a post-flood Nephilim return due to someone finding a recipe for fresh, hot out of the oven home-made Nephilim.

D. Gene Williams, Jr. then circles back to the Sethite view and again argues poorly against it, “The Sethite view faces considerable tension when confronted with the overwhelming evidence for Nephilim as” his misuse of the term, “giants” referring to, “extraordinary size and renown” for which he cites, “(Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33)” from which he can only get extraordinary size from the unreliable evil report.

He likewise fails by arguing for, “Nephilim’s gigantism” which, “aligns with their mythological portrayal in Second Temple literature” which is as relevant as that extraordinary size-Nephilim’s gigantism aligns with neo-pop-Nephilology.

He writes of, “Nephilim…hybrid giants…Nephilim as giants…Nephilim are best understood as ‘giants’” and circles back to:

The Nephilim Before and After the Flood…

Nephilim, described as…contributing to the justification for the global judgment of the Flood…The narrative explicitly connects the escalation of wickedness, including the actions surrounding the Nephilim, with God’s decision to bring the Flood as an act of divine justice (Genesis 6:7)…a cataclysmic response…

Post-Flood Mentions

The Nephilim and the Canaanite Giants (Numbers 13:33):

After the Flood, the Nephilim reappear in the report of the Israelite spies, who claim to have seen them in Canaan alongside the Anakim. They describe the Nephilim as giants, saying, “We seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them” (Numbers 13:33, ESV).

To, “necessitated the Flood…God’s judgment…judgment of the Flood…a direct response” we can now add, “global judgment of the Flood…God’s decision to bring the Flood” and yet, “After the Flood, the Nephilim reappear” but note the interesting qualifying term that I suspect was not conscious, “in the report of the [10] Israelite spies, who claim to have seen them.”

They did not appear on the ground, in real life, but only in a report which was a mere claim. Indeed, I can report that I claim to have seen the first POTUS George Washington, but he did not appear on the ground, in real life.

Note how myopic giant seekers get that the claim was, “claim to have seen them in Canaan alongside the Anakim” without noting Amalekites, Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites nor even Canaanites.

Williams, Jr. went on to claim, “Other post-Flood groups, such as the Rephaim, Anakim, and Zamzummim, are described in the Bible as giants…These groups are sometimes associated with the Nephilim, either as their descendants or as part of a recurring archetype of rebellious and threatening figures.”

By, “sometimes” he can only mean in one single sentence (and much, much, much latter dated folklore). He does not seem to realize that a list consisting of, “Rephaim, Anakim, and Zamzummim” is a list of one since Rephaim were aka Zamzummim (or Zuzim) and, again, Anakim were like a clan of that tribe.

D. Gene Williams, Jr. re-reiterates, “The Anakim, in particular, are explicitly linked to the Nephilim in Numbers 13:33, suggesting a thematic or genealogical connection” for which he cites The Book of Enoch, 7:1–9 which reads as follows—he cited the R.H. Charles version but it only has 6 verse in chap 7:

1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.

2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

Besides fixating on the word giants in the manner of a word-concept fallacy, there is no indication whatsoever of, “Anakim…explicitly linked to the Nephilim” even in terms of a, “thematic or genealogical connection” in 1 Enoch.

Since Williams, Jr. circles to certain topics over and over, he then goes back to the flood and notes that one of the, “Interpretative Challenges” is, “Were the Nephilim Wiped Out or Did They Persist?”

He notes, “Proponents argue that the reappearance of the Nephilim could indicate a second incursion of angelic beings after the Flood, continuing their rebellion.”

Of course:

1. there is literally zero indication of any such thing.

2. just as with any post-flood Nephilim assertion, it implies that God failed, missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

3. Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated, and there is only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible.

He also notes, “Alternatively, the term ‘Nephilim’ may have been used symbolically to describe later giants or mighty warriors reminiscent of the pre-Flood figures” which debunks itself since if that was the case, why is there only one single usage of that word post-flood (and an utterly unreliable usage at that)?

Recall the unique claim that, “The paper also examines references to the Nephilim in the New Testament” which is surely a unique claim.”

Well, the only thing that was noted about that is:

While the Nephilim narrative highlights the escalation of wickedness and the need for divine judgment, the Bible also presents a redemptive plan culminating in Jesus Christ. This plan includes reclaiming the nations disinherited at Babel, a theme powerfully symbolized in Jesus’ sending of the seventy disciples

I discern that Williams is paraphrasing Heiser and so he thinks that in the NT unclean spirits/demons by any other name, were spirits of dead Nephilim and yet, that is just folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah. For a biblical view, please see my article, “Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

D. Gene Williams, Jr. goes on to note, “The universality of giant myths and legends across cultures provides a compelling argument for the global impact of the Nephilim or similar beings.” The problem with this is that he, at least in part, will be identifying and correlating such myths and legends by whether they mention his misuse of the term giants so that is a word-concept fallacy.

He then notes, “Megalithic Structures” which he thinks were Nephilim related due to his fallacious Nephilology: it is a form of a non-sequitur that concludes that large things must have been built for and by large people.

He even went so far down the incoherence rabbit hole that he mentioned, “Afghanistan’s Kandahar Giant” about which he, at least qualifies, “The alleged” with reference to:

…encounter with a red-haired, six-fingered giant during Operation Enduring Freedom in 2002 presents a modern parallel to biblical descriptions. The military’s reported retrieval and concealment of the giant’s body echo the suppression of giant lore in mainstream narratives, fueling speculation about their continued existence.

Note that, “reported retrieval and concealment” in reality, refers to an internet hoax based on some anonymous guys making vague claims about generic regions and sold to us by two guys who make a living by selling un-biblical tall-tales to Christians: LA Marzulli and the plagiarist and evolutionist Steven Quayle. Not surprisingly, Williams, Jr. cites Quayle’s largely plagiarized book for that tall-tale, “Genesis 6 Giants” see my proof of his plagiarism in my book Nephilim and Giants as per Pop-Researchers: A Comprehensive Consideration of the claims of I.D.E. Thomas, Chuck Missler, Dante Fortson, Derek Gilbert, Brian Godawa, Patrick Heron, Thomas Horn, Ken Johnson, L.A. Marzulli, Josh Peck, CK Quarterman, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba, Gary Wayne, Jim Wilhelmsen, et al.

He then asserts, “Jinn and Biblical Parallels” namely, “Islamic accounts of jinn, described as shape-shifting entities capable of interbreeding with humans, bear striking resemblance to the Genesis account of fallen angels” and yet, there is literally zero indication of shape-shifting Angels.

He then circles back to, “Megalithic Structures” and then to, “the depiction of a mysterious ‘handbag’ held by figures in Sumerian, Mayan, and Indonesian art” because, apparently, it is odd that throughout history, things have been carried in bags.

Yes, D. Gene Williams, Jr. asserts, “These symbols, although not explicitly explained, appear to represent tools or knowledge carried by beings who interacted with humanity” he is assuming they are symbols and not actual handbags and that they represent tools or knowledge. Well, perhaps they are symbols and symbolize just that yet, Williams, Jr. employs that so as to tie into folklore, “resonating with the idea of fallen angels sharing forbidden wisdom, as described in apocryphal texts like 1 Enoch and hinted at in Genesis 6” even though Gen 6 hints at no such thing.

He then moves on to, “Biblical Giants in North America…biblical giants, possibly linked to the Nephilim, may have existed in North America” which is biblically impossible since there was no North America in pre-flood days.

He specifies, “The Paiute tribe speaks of a race of red-haired giants…the Paiutes trapped the giants in Lovelock Cave, Nevada, where they were burned or suffocated. Early excavations in the cave uncovered numerous artifacts and bones, some of which were reportedly of unusually large size” with, “unusually” and, “large” being as just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as, “physical enormity,” “immense size,” and “giant.”

Such folklore is likely Native cultural memories of interacting with Vikings: red-haired giants. For details, see Lovelock Cave Giants: lost or found?

D. Gene Williams, Jr. then writes of, “Biblical Parallels and Theological Implications”:

Deuteronomy 2:20–21:

References the Zamzummim, a race of giants who were destroyed by God to make way for the descendants of Lot. Similar descriptions of the Anakim and Rephaim suggest the presence of giants across the ancient world.95

Genesis 6:4 and Global Giants:

The biblical account of the Nephilim implies a global dispersion of giants, making it plausible for such beings to have left a footprint in the Americas [Heiser, The Unseen Realm, 134–136].

Once again, for his Deut 2 related statement, he cited, “Charles, ed., The Book of Enoch, 6:1–7” which does not even hint at any such thing.

As for Deut 2, again, it correlates Anakim and Emim with Rephaim/Zamzummim so that a re-write is, “References the Zamzummim, a race of Rephaim who were destroyed by God to make way for the descendants of Lot. Similar descriptions of the Anakim and Rephaim suggest the presence of Rephaim across the ancient world.”

As for, Gen 6:4, it can only be about, “Global Giants…a global dispersion” in the pre-flood world.

Therefrom, D. Gene Williams, Jr. notes, “giants in pre-Columbian America” specifically, “THE NEPHILIM GIANTS OF PATAGONIA” based on his concept of something generic about vague height at some unknown level above the subjective parochial average regarding, “Nephilim or similar beings” (similar in the manner of something generic about vague height at some unknown level above the subjective parochial average).

This leads to circling back to Gen 6, Num 13, and 2 Sam 21 regarding, “giants with abnormal physical traits, such as six fingers and toes, parallel descriptions of exceptional beings from biblical texts” about which we must convert his plurals into singulars, “giants” to giant/Repha, “beings” to being/human since this was about one single person, one Repha.

Williams, Jr. then turns to, “THE TALMUD AND THE RETURN OF THE NEPHILIM BEFORE THE MESSIAH”: Talmud, he is specifically referring to the Talmud Bavli/Babylonian Talmud which was codified between 300-500 AD—and about which a shortcut is my book The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts.

He notes, “Midrashic Accounts of Og and the Flood” which date to even later, more recently, than the Talmudim and is, by the nature and context of Midrashim, sermonizing homilies with no indication of containing historical accuracy. In this case, so the folkloric tall-tales go, the Repha Og anachronistically lived pre-flood, was very, very, very large, survived the flood by hanging onto the side of the ark, being fed by Noah, etc., etc., etc.—see my book The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?

In the, “Biblical Allusions to the Return of Giants” section, he goes even further into pop-Nephilology territory in that he merely reiterates more of the hip, fad tall-tales:

Scriptural references provide a foundation for the belief in the reappearance of Nephilim in the end times:

Genesis 6:4 and the Days of Noah:

Genesis 6:4 describes the Nephilim as existing both before and after the Flood, framing their presence as a recurring phenomenon. This cyclical manifestation of rebellion parallels the eschatological conditions mentioned in the New Testament.

Jesus compares the days before His return to the days of Noah, stating: “As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:37; Luke 17:26, ESV).

The days of Noah were marked by the Nephilim’s presence, suggesting a parallel in the eschatological future.

Based exclusively on one unreliable sentence from an unreliable evil report by 10 unreliable guys whom God rebuked, he asserts, “Nephilim…existing…after the Flood.” Yet, he actually claimed, “Genesis 6:4 describes the Nephilim as existing both before and after the Flood” yet, it does no such thing.

Now, if, “The days of Noah were marked by the Nephilim…” is why, “Jesus compares the days before His return to the days of Noah” did Jesus even hint at implying any such thing?

Jesus’ words, His emphasis, His points, His context, were:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

But He kept speaking directly with:

Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed (Luke 17).

Thus, this was about examples of being unaware/unconcerned about coming judgment.

Just because, “The days of Noah were marked by the Nephilim’s presence” does not mean that they, and everything else that was occurring in those days, must therefore, by definitional necessity, are even as much as a mere suggested in any such eschatological future.

He added:

Isaiah 13:3 (Septuagint):

The Septuagint translation states: “Giants are coming to fulfill my wrath.” This prophecy could imply a divine judgment involving the reemergence of giants as instruments of God’s eschatological plans.

Indeed, that is about, “fulfill[ing] my [God’s] wrath…a divine judgment” but not of, “giants” but rather, of humans.

Since Williams, Jr. is chasing around the vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage and modern English word giants, he fails to note that what Isaiah wrote is that gibborim were doing such: God’s mighty ones—not Nephilim—“gibborim are coming to fulfill my wrath.”

Another favorite pop-Nephilology talking point is what D. Gene Williams, Jr. puts as:

Daniel 2:43 and “Mingling with the Seed of Men”:

In describing the final empire, Daniel writes:

“They will mingle with the seed of men, but they will not adhere to one another.”

This enigmatic phrase evokes Genesis 6:4, where fallen angels mated with human women, producing the Nephilim. Some interpretations see this as a prophecy of similar events in the end times.

In short, Daniel was referring to two human people groups that would intermarry but not engage in commerce—I included a whole chapter on those few words in Daniel in my book What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim? A Styled Giantology and Nephilology. There is no context in the sentences around that, nor the paragraph surrounding them, nor the entire book that allows for the pop-Nephilology misreading, misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and misapplication: it is a case of taking a text out of context to make a pretext for a prooftext.

Another example of pop-Nephiloloists’ eisegesis is when he wrote and quoted:

Nephilim and Eschatological Fear

The reappearance of the Nephilim is often associated with fearsome events in the end times:

Men’s Hearts Failing from Fear (Luke 21:26):

“Men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth.”

This passage hints at unprecedented terror during the tribulation, potentially linked to supernatural beings like the Nephilim.

That generic statement was turned into, “The reappearance of the Nephilim” without precedence.

Perhaps we ought to take heed of what Jesus noted in that very context, in that very chapter, “when you hear of wars and tumults, do not be terrified” rather than spinning tall-tales about giants.

Jesus noted:

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

But before all this they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors for my name’s sake…

You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death. You will be hated by all for my name’s sake…

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near…there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world.

For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory…

Was any of that giants related or was any such thing even hinted at in any way? I trow not.

Now, “This passage hints at unprecedented terror during the tribulation, potentially linked to supernatural beings like the Nephilim” was a statement cited as, “[Graham] Hancock, Fingerprints of the Gods, 212–215” with Hancock having the following as his ultimate goal:

I think that all three of the world’s monotheistic faiths, whether it’s Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, have been responsible for just a vast amount of misery in the world.

And I think that we’re not going to move on as a human race unless we actually move on from that time, where we don’t accept that something is true just because our parents or some guy with a beard tells us that it’s true, where we look for direct experience of the spirit and the divine.
This is the problem with all of those big religions, I don’t care whether Christians, Muslims, or Jews, you know, is that they are hierarchies, they’re bureaucracies, they’re power structures, and they do not offer a direct experience.

That’s why all of them persecute the use of psychedelics. They don’t want people to have direct contact with the divine (a timestamped clip of that statement can be found in the video, “How Joe Rogan Was Fooled by Graham Hancock,” World of Antiquity, Apr 30, 2024: https://youtu.be/IeIj_rNYhCU?t=2730).  

Of course, pop-Nephilologists do not travel down this off-yellow brick road of their own making for nothing, they seek to end up with an assertion of, “The mingling of iron and clay in Daniel 2 has been interpreted as a metaphor for hybrid beings—possibly Nephilim—playing a role in the Antichrist’s dominion.”

That somehow leads him to circle back to, “During Operation Enduring Freedom, a U.S. Special Forces team allegedly encountered a 13-foot-tall, red-haired giant in the Kandahar region” for some odd unreasonable reason.

That follows directly with circling back to, “six fingers…additional fingers and toes.”

Then circling back to, “Islamic texts describe jinn as shape-shifting entities.”

And such is a styled pop-Nephilology tactic: make a statement, circle back to reiterate, circle back again, and again, and again which gives the appearance of providing a lot of data when it is merely reiterations in the style of the cheap debater’s trick of elephant hurling.

An appendix has Williams, Jr., providing this fantasy illustration:

picture2-2

He comments, “This evocative illustration portrays the Nephilim in an apocalyptic Middle Eastern setting, wreaking havoc amidst ancient ruins” the reply to which ought to be: what of it? Every indication is that it is 100% fantasy.

See my various books here.

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If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

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Anurag Rao’s Nephilim in the Bible: Unraveling One of Scripture’s Greatest Mysteries

Anurag Rao, self-described as, “have spent the last ten years studying the Bible, Gnosticism, Greek mythology, Declassified texts, Apocalyptic prophecies, Hidden History, Numerology, Esoteric texts, Self-help books and Ethics,” wrote an article titled The Nephilim in the Bible: Unraveling One of Scripture’s Greatest Mysteries.

Rao noted:

The Nephilim appear in just two direct passages in the Bible, making their brief mentions all the more intriguing.

Genesis 6:1-4: The Primary Passage

The most detailed reference occurs in Genesis 6:1-4, which describes events before the great flood: “When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose… The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.”

Numbers 13:33: The Spies’ Report

The second reference appears in Numbers 13:33, when the Israelite spies report back from Canaan: “We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

It’s too generic to write of, “The Spies’ Report…the Israelite spies report” since there are two reports in Num chaps 13 and there were 12 spies but the quoted report was labeled an, “evil report” and was by 10 of the 12: the 10 unreliable ones whom God rebuked.

Rao reviews, “Major Interpretations of the Nephilim” beginning with:

The Angelic Interpretation

This view holds that the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6 were angels who descended to earth and took human wives. Their offspring, the Nephilim, were supernatural hybrids possessing both divine and human characteristics. This interpretation finds support in ancient Jewish literature, including the Book of Enoch, and was popular among early church fathers.

Indeed, see my books On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim and The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts to include In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

Next is:

The Sethite Interpretation

Many Christian theologians favor this interpretation, which identifies the “sons of God” as descendants of Seth (Adam’s righteous son) who intermarried with the “daughters of men” (descendants of Cain). According to this view, the Nephilim were simply the offspring of these mixed marriages, notable for their physical stature and moral corruption rather than supernatural origin.

The case is, “Many Christian theologians” from centuries into AD days—mostly influenced by Augustine of Hippo.

This late comer of a view is based on myth and prejudice.

As for, “Nephilim…notable for their physical stature”: the dirty little secret is that since we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim then their height is a non-issue and that alone debunks 99% of un-biblical Nephilology—the modern branch of which is just un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales.

There’s also:

The Ruler Interpretation

Some modern scholars suggest that “sons of God” refers to powerful rulers or nobles who took multiple wives, and the Nephilim were their offspring—mighty warriors or leaders who became legendary figures in ancient times.

This one seems like a too generic way out of the paranormal implications of the Angel view.

It also means that the only reason why there haven’t been such floods all along after Noah’s is because God, for some unknown reason, said He wouldn’t do it again after mere humans continuously practice polygamy.

Rao then notes:

The Nephilim and the Great Flood

The timing of the Nephilim’s mention in Genesis 6, immediately before the account of Noah’s flood, has led many to connect their presence with God’s decision to judge the earth. Some interpretations suggest that the corruption introduced by the Nephilim was a primary factor in God’s judgment, while others see them merely as part of the general wickedness of that era.

The phrase “and also afterward” in Genesis 6:4 raises questions about whether some Nephilim survived the flood or if similar beings appeared again later in history.

Logically, bio-logically, and theo-logically there was never nor could there ever have been, “Nephilim and the Great Flood” since God didn’t fail, didn’t miss a loophole, the flood wasn’t much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

If, “corruption introduced by the Nephilim was a primary factor in God’s judgment” then God wouldn’t just let it all happen all over again post-flood.

As for, “merely as part of the general wickedness of that era”: same difference.

It actually can’t be that, “‘and also afterward’ in Genesis 6:4 raises questions about whether some Nephilim survived the flood” for the theological reason and also since those three English words are part of this complete thought, “Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.”

V. 1 tell us the general timeline, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose” so it’s pointing us backward in time.

And if someone wants to grant that along with a but then it then points us forward but only up until the flood.

There’s no indication of, “similar beings appeared.”

We’re then told:

Connection to the Giants of Canaan

The reference to Nephilim in Numbers 13:33 creates a puzzling continuity issue. If the Nephilim existed before the flood and the flood destroyed all life except Noah’s family, how could they still exist during the Israelites’ wilderness wanderings? This has led to several theories, including the possibility that the spies were using “Nephilim” as a general term for giants, or that similar supernatural events occurred after the flood.

It’s actually not at all, “a puzzling continuity issue” since there’s no reliable indication that, “Nephilim…still exist during the Israelites’ wilderness wanderings.”

And, again, it wasn’t generically, “the spies.”

What we’re dealing with is:

  1. One single sentence
  2. From an “evil report”
  3. By 10 unreliable guys
  4. Whom God rebuked—to death
  5. Who made five mere assertions unbacked by even one single other verse in the whole Bible
  6. Who contradicted Moses, Cable, Joshua, God, and the rest of the whole entire Bible

I could go on but see my post, Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

Rao then notes, “Understanding the Nephilim requires considering the ancient Near Eastern context in which these texts were written” and refers to, “Similar stories of divine beings mating with humans appear in various ancient mythologies, including Mesopotamian and Greek traditions.”

See my book The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts.

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Review of Christian Resource Center of New Hampshire’s Fallen Angels and the Days of Noah

The Christian Resource Center of New Hampshire posted an article, in the form of a PDF, titled Fallen Angels and The Days of Noah so I will be focusing on that aspect of it.

It notes, “Genesis [6] tells us about a group of angels (referred to as ‘the sons of God’ in the Old Testament) that saw how beautiful human women were so they left their first estate [Jude] in the spiritual realm and came to earth in order to commit a horrible sin of adultery between angels and humans.”

Well, it wasn’t adultery since they got married—yet, it may be that spiritual adultery against God was meant.

Moreover, “These are the ‘Fallen Angels’. These angels are also referred to as the ‘Watchers’” to which I will add: millennia later, during the Second Temple Era (516 BC-70 AD).

It’s noted that the Gen 6 affair, as I term it, “resulted in ‘Super Men’ and giants referred to as ‘Nephilim’…super powerful spirit/flesh abominations.”

I’m unsure if what’s meant by “Super Men’ and giants” is the claim that two categories of being where the results or whether Nephilim are being referred to as both.

Regardless, this begs the questions: what’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s the Christian Resource Center of New Hampshire usage? Do those two usages agree?

As for, “spirit/flesh” there’s no indication of that. I’m assuming that’s an assertion based on fallacious Angelology so I will note that Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology. See my book, What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology.

We’re told of, “‘fallen angels’ (these are different than Satan’s demons” yet, there’s no indication of that since there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible and demons are those very fallen Angels, please see my article, Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

Next to be mentioned is, “The Book of Enoch” actually referring to 1 Enoch—whence they got the term Watchers—about which it’s noted, “The Book of Enoch, which was preserved by the Ethiopian Christian Church and recently also found among the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, tells us much more information about these ‘Fallen Angels’ and what took place.”

That 1 Enoch is in the Ethiopian canon doesn’t make that one canon uniquely correct but rather, uniquely incorrect since 1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from millennia after the Torah (see my book, In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch) in fact, that cannon also contains a text titled, “The Life of Adam and Eve” which claims that when God created Adam, God commanded the Angels to worship Adam.

The Dead Sea Scrolls consist of biblical texts but also community rules as well as apocalyptic literature and various other genre.

Thus, 1 Enoch, “tells us much more” something, “about these ‘Fallen Angels’ and what took place” which seems to consist of folklore from, again, centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah.

We’re also told, “the Book of Enoch and it is quoted in the book of Jude” and Paul quotes Greek poets so, what of it?

Yet, we’re told that late-dated Bible contradicting folklore is one of the, “‘Deuterocanonical’ books [which] are used as an ‘expert witness’ by the Holy Spirit.

Next up is a section meant to, “dispel some of the misunderstandings that have arisen” such as, “The belief that the term ‘sons of God’ refers to a so called ‘godly line of Seth’ and the term ‘daughters of men’ refers to the so called ‘ungodly line of Cain’” which is a late-comer of a view based on myth and prejudice.

It’s noted, “There is nothing ‘godly’ about the line of Seth other than Jesus Christ Himself. Everyone else in that line was a sinner just like all the rest of humanity.” And while I do hold that myth and prejudice has been built around Sethites, godly doesn’t just refer to the 100% perfectly sinless 100% of the time.

Recall what I noted, “As for, ‘spirit/flesh’ there’s no indication of that” and that, “Angels are always described as looking like human males.” Well, it’s next noted, “the ‘sons of God’ referred to angels who were male only” and, “MISUNDERSTANDING #2 – Angels are only spirit beings and cannot have sexual intercourse with human beings (flesh).”

Yet, that’s followed up with, “It is true that angels are spirit beings” for which there’s no indication, “however, in certain cases, they can definitely take human form” for which there’s no indication.

We’re then told, “there are as many as 9 classes of angels” for which there’s no indication, “mentioned in the Bible including Seraphim, Cherubim, Archangels, and Angels.”

This is just a category error that violates the law of identity. If one of the, “classes” of Angels consists of Angels then that’s circularly redundant. Also, Seraphim and Cherubim don’t belong amongst classes of Angels since they’re not Angels by definition—and I’m quite unsure what the other supposed other five classes are supposed to be. Only Archangels and Angels are to be categorized as Angels—and it seems there’s only one Archangel, Michael, by definition: he’s the arche.

We’re told, “At least one and possibly more classes of angel are capable of taking on the fleshly form of humans” but, again, there’s no indication of that.

Yet, that’s a very popular un-biblical man-made tradition and the articles seeks to support it thusly, “when Jesus came to Abraham with 2 other ‘men’ who were actually a type of angel. These angels had the full appearance of human men.” Note the disconnect from the biblical teaching which causes the artificial insertion of an un-biblical man-made tradition: one merely presupposes that Angles are spirits, one reads how that (time and again) they’re always described as man/men, one merely artificially inserts that they take on the fleshly form of humans.

The biblical view is as I have noted it: Angels are of a fleshly of their own sort that looks just like human males—with additional capabilities.

Thus, merely asserting something no biblical text ever says is proposing a solution to a problem that was caused by un-biblical man-made traditions.

Another misunderstanding is based on that Jesus said, “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.”

Another misunderstanding is based on that Jesus said, “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven” (Matt 2).

The article leaves it at, “Jesus definitely said that the angels in heaven do not marry and are not given into marriage. The story is centered on marriage only and specifically states that there are NO children involved. Jesus answered their question as it was stated and only addressed the marriage issue.”

I’m unsure how, “The story…specifically states that there are NO children involved” but okay. The point is that Jesus was not referring to all Angels at all times in all places but the loyal ones, “‘of God” and “in heaven” which is why those who did marry are considered sinners since they, “left their first estate,” as Jude put it, in order to do so.

We then come to why the article presupposes that Angels are spirits, “Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water” (1 Peter 3:18-20).

Now, this is pretty tricky on various levels.

The article notes, “the ‘spirits’ (fallen angels) which were disobedient in Noah’s day” yet, Gen 6 begins with, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.” So, the question becomes: when was that? Well, it’s somewhat vague so it may have been as early as when Adam and Eve’s children first started having children which was centuries before, “Noah’s day.”

Those spirits could also refer to the fallen humanity of which only those in the ark survived.

Now, even if we grant that it refers to Angels, it’s hermeneutically inappropriate to topple every single description of Angels due to one single word: that would be a word-concept fallacy. If that’s the case, then an appropriate conclusion would be that since in any language any one thing can be referred to in various ways then we’d have one single place in the (Greek) NT where Angels are referred to as spirits and leave it at that: it’d be a strictly linguistics issue—for such issues, see my book Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010.

2 Peter 2:4 is quoted thusly, “God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell…” and this comment is made, “God cast them in to Hell (the prison mentioned in 1st Peter above)” but the Greek term is, “Tartarus.”

Last, the following photo was included and labeled as, “Egyptian Depiction of Nephilim” without any elucidation of that mere assertion.

picture1-2

I’ve no idea how pharaoh Akhenaten, and fam, has anything to do with Nephilim—nor how they possible could.

See, the article noted, “one of the main causes why God needed to flood the earth and kill all living things” and the article quoted Gen 6:5-13 some key aspects of which are, “the LORD said, ‘I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air…Noah [his wife, their three sons and their sons’ wives] found grace in the eyes of the LORD…God said to Noah, ‘The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”

So, since Egyptians, including Akhenaten, didn’t exist until centuries post-flood how could they possibly have anything to do with Nephilim since Nephilim didn’t make it past the flood in any way, shape, or form? Post-flood Nephilim are logically, bio-logically, and theo-logically impossible since, at the very least, God didn’t fail, didn’t miss a loophole, the flood wasn’t much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

See my various books here.

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If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

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Dean Smith​ claims Anthropology confirms the Bible’s description of a race of GIANTS

Dean Smith​, who self-describes as, “Not much to say. I am a Christian and Charismatic,” wrote an article titled Anthropology confirms the Bible’s description of a race of GIANTS on the Open the Word site.

Since we’re not only told of, “GIANTS” but it’s claimed that the Bible descriptions them, we’ll have to keep an eye out for what’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s Smith usage? Do those two usages agree?

He notes, “we find several mentions of giant men. Of course, the most famous of these was Goliath” and refers to, “the tallest man on record was an Illinois man, Robert Pershing Wadlow, who grew to a size of 8’11”.”

Thus, his usage is something vague to do with generically being taller than the subjective parochial average.

Thus, his usage doesn’t agree with the usage in modern English Bibles since therein, word giants merely renders (doesn’t even translate) Nephilim in 2 verses or Repha/im in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.

This fundamental linguistics error inevitably causes focus on the wrong issue and leads to English readers chasing a vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word around an ancient Hebrew Bible and thereby, connecting things that aren’t viably connectable.

Dean Smith also uses the term, “extraordinary size” which is just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as giants.

He also writes in terms of, “a race(s) of giants known as the Nephilim” which, as we have just seen, biblically contextually means, “a race(s) of Nephilim known as the Nephilim” which is circularly redundant.
He quotes Gen 6:4 thusly, “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.”

He comments, “some believe that the Nephilim were actually the offspring of the marriages between the sons of god (fallen angels) and the daughters of men. But a closer read of the verse seems to suggest that the Nephilim were already in existence when the sons of God and daughters of men started having children.”

The Gen 6 affair narrative’s contextual focus is the sons of God and daughters of men: their attraction, their marriage, and their offspring. Thus, it would violate that narrative’s contextual focus to artificially insert a mere passing reference to some unrelated Nephilim guys who just happened to be around at the time, are mentioned for no apparent reason, and about whom nothing more is said in relation to the narrative’s contextual focus.

He notes, “We know from the Biblical record and other Hebraic writings, such as the Book of Enoch, that the Nephilim were a race of giants” so Nephilim were a race of Nephilim and we learned that by, “Hebraic writings” he’s including 1 Enoch which is Bible contradicting folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah, see my book, In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

Now, misusing giants to refer to some generically vague thing about subjective size, he tells us:

The existence of these giants is confirmed again when the Israel spies reported seeing giants in Canaan.
In their fear, the 10 spies exaggerated the difference, stating the Hebrews looked like grasshoppers compared to the Anak:
33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.” (Numbers 13:33 ESV)
Nevertheless, they identified them as a race of giants and instinctively connected them to the Nephilim.
This denotes a typical pop-Nephilology use, abuse, and misuse of a verse by misreading, misunderstanding, misinterpreting, misapplying and taking a text out of context to make a pretext for a prooftext.

So, “The existence of these” referring to subjectively oversized Nephilim, “is confirmed again when the Israel spies reported…” but he’s only referring to the second report in Num 13, the “evil report.”

Indeed, it was, “the 10 spies” out of 12: the unreliable ones.

And he myopically refers to, “looked like grasshoppers compared to the Anak” when the version he quoted is about, “looked like grasshoppers compared to the Nephilim.”
He also didn’t tell us that he’s relying on:

  1. One single sentence
  2. From strictly non-LXX versions—the LXX doesn’t mention Anakim in that verse
  3. Of an “evil report”
  4. By 10 unreliable guys
  5. Whom God rebuked—to death
  6. Who made five mere assertions unbacked by even one single other verse in the whole Bible
  7. Who contradicted Moses, Cable, Joshua, God, and the rest of the whole entire Bible

I could go on but see my post, Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

Thus, he has it that Anakim were, “a race of giants and instinctively connected them to the Nephilim” but 1. the only thing we’re contextually told about Anakim is that they were subjectively, “tall” (Deut 2) subjective to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days and 2. Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids, Anakim were strictly post-flood humans, and there’s zero correlation between them.

He then uses that tragically fallacious assertion to conclude, “Goliath was not a one off, as he had brothers who were also giants and the Bible again connects Goliath’s family to a group called the Rapha (2 Samuel 21:18-22), and as well, Bashan’s King Og was a giant who was said to be the last of a group called the Rephaim (Deuteronomy 3:11).” Yes, but he missed his own point: that should have alerted him that when he’s reading about post-flood, “giants” in his English Bible it’s merely rendering to the people group Rephaim (sans Num 13:33), the tribe, not anything to do with height.
Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids, Rephaim were strictly post-flood humans, and there’s zero correlation between them.

Also based on his fallacies, Dean Smith asserts, “a race of giants” were, “broken apart into different family groups” but he’s chasing references to height—I actually think he’s chasing Nephilim since that seems to be his subplot hidden assumption: if that’s the case then what makes him imply that God failed, that He missed a loophole, that the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.? Just how did Nephilim get past the flood, past God?

He continues with, “Professor Lee Berger…a paleo anthropologist from the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa…talked about a race of giants who lived on the earth about 300,000 years ago.” Berger is quoted thusly, “They are huge. That’s so big we can’t even calculate how big this individual was. You would need an NBA basketball player to get someone of that height. Someone like this would have been something like over seven feet tall.”
See the uselessness of terms such as, “giants…extraordinary size…huge…big”? In this case, “we can’t even calculate how big this individual was” was calculated and it’s merely, “over seven feet tall.”

Overhyped and underdelivered in one single sentence.

He’s also quoted as referring to, “enormous….GIANTS…extreme giantism…huge…tall” since, “These were people routinely over seven feet tall.”
But for Dean Smith that level of hyperbolic incoherence amounts to, “For thousands of year, the Bible has been mocked for telling us that there was a race of giant men, and it wasn’t until the 20th century that evolutionists finally discovered that the Bible was right.”
Yet, this was just another case of poorly researched pop-Nephilology —the modern branch of which is just un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales. FYI: I’ve written some dozen research based Nephilology books and posted dozens of vids on my YT channel, besides the hundreds of articles posted here on my website.

See my various books here.

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A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Pastor Drew Worthen on the Gen 6 related Sons of God and Nephilim Giants

Sons of God is the titled of a posting on a site that notes of Pastor Drew Worthen that, “The Lord later called Drew to a twelve and a half year pastorate centered on Biblical exegesis with practical applications” of which that posting is one example.

He begins by noting that, “If you’ve done any reading on the subject of who the ‘sons of God’ are in Genesis 6 and the book of Job” a view of them is that it refers to, “fallen angels who had sexual relations with the daughters of men in a marriage relationship with the express purpose of ruining the seed of humanity so as to ruin the possibility of the promised seed of the Messiah” with the latter part being fair enough, perhaps, but is an assumption.

Yet, he notes that, “to arrive at this conclusion, one must assume that Moses understood, along with his first audience, that the phrase in question defines angels. But again, if we exegete the passage in question there is no direct evidence that Moses understood this to mean angels.”

He states that, “We would have to read this back into the passage which is not exegesis but eisegesis…the immediate passage as it stands, does not define whether they are angels or someone else. The larger context must be brought to bear to arrive at what the Holy Spirit was conveying through this phrase.”

Indeed, and there is no rule of hermeneutics that demands that only the immediate passage be considered and, in fact, quite the opposite is the case: context expands from what we would call sentences/verse, to chapters, to books, to the whole Bible.

Another aspect of this is to consider how certain texts have been traditionally understood since, for example, the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the Angel view, as I proved in my book, On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

Pastor Worthen notes that he will review, “the view that it refers to angels. Another view contends that the ‘sons of God’ in Genesis 6 are equated with powerful human rulers who dominated the known world and through their influence corrupted the morals of the seed of Seth, possibly through polygamy, which led to the downfall of humanity.”

Interestingly, he notes:

While it is true that the word of God is not devoid of allusions to the culture of the day in which the Spirit of God moved men to write the very words of God for the edification of His people, we must be careful not to let the lens of the culture be the primary focus through which God is communicating His word to His people.

Good point and yet, we must we must be careful not to neglect that it could very well be that such cultures du jour were borrowing, and corrupting, the word of God: examples are that Moses, Daniel, et al., were powerful and influential men living in Pagan cultures and could have influenced them, such as Daniel having been, “the king gave Daniel high honors and many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon” (Dan 2). Pastor Worthen notes the likes of this point, “I certainly acknowledge that there are many places in the word of God where the pagan culture of that day is brought to bear on those who penned the very word of God. Paul at Athens comes to mind or Daniel in exile while in Babylon” although he thinks, “that influence didn’t trump their theology and the language used to communicate that theology in a way that depended upon any one particular culture to advance their ideas.”

He notes that he will review views of the Gen 6 affair (as I term it), “position that the sons of God are a privileged or powerful group “ and, “the ‘sons of God = angels’ position” and, “that the ‘sons of God’ were the ‘godly’ descendants of Seth who eventually intermarried with the ungodly seed of Cain” and a, “view that I will argue is closer to the view of the sons of God being the descendants of Seth, but with a distinction that is not emphasized enough, which I believe differentiates between a ‘godly’ seed and a ‘covenant’ seed, both of which are not always equal.”

Now, his write up is 151 pages (how he has it formatted) so I will be focusing on those points at which he tackles these views directly.

He begins with the latter by noting that God’s, “unilateral covenant with Adam…was the basis upon which God would identify His people…he was given the responsibility to carry the name of God in faithfulness. After Adam’s rebellion God…enacted a new covenant with the promise of being reconciled back to God and the hope of the curse being lifted through the seed of the woman, the promised Messiah. This new covenant with Adam and Eve is identified with a seed, the seed of the woman, the son of Adam, the son of God” as per, “Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

Pastor Drew Worthen notes, “This is the covenant war of two seeds” about which I will note that those seeds are they who commit Godly action vs. those who do not (and with the, singular, seed of the woman ultimately being Jesus) which is great news since it means that those who do not can repent.

As for, “first mention of the phrase, ‘sons of God’ in Genesis 6:2,” he reiterates, “we must place it in some sort of context as Moses would have understood it” and adds, “Interestingly enough there is a plethora of biblical information that Moses, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has given us leading up to the context of our passage in question that paves the way for a proper Theological interpretation.”

Very well yet, that does not mean that we know what Moses knew, especially in the light of that he too was provided data, “through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit”—after all, Moses was the first person in history to download data from a cloud to a tablet.

Pastor Worthen again complains, “For those who hold to the view that the sons of God in this passage are angels, one is forced to move forward from the point of Genesis 6 and reflect backward from other biblical revelation to arrive at that conclusion” but such is how literally every single doctrine is complied.

He comes to the point of noting, “an image bearer carries with it a covenantal responsibility to the one whose image you represent. The seed of Adam necessarily represents that covenant that God had with Adam. Cain and his seed broke with that covenant and therefore bore the image of the father of lies.”

While we can go as far as saying that, “Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod” which may very well be spiritually but contextually is physically since he moved away from Eden—and that was after God protected him, “‘If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.’ And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him.”

Yet, there is literally zero indication that, that one action by Cain resulted in that not only Cain but, “his seed” in toto not only, “broke with that covenant” but, “bore the image of the father of lies”—one thing we can say of Cain’s descendants is that they were disabled (get it, disAbled).

That non sequitur of an argument from silence is a typical part of the Sethite view which is a late comer of a view that is based on myth and prejudice—such as the mere assertion we just reviewed.

The other side of the equation is that, “Seth, is distinguished as having both the image and likeness of Adam” which seems to mean that he looked more like Adam than Abel or Cain did while Pastor Drew Worthen thinks, “The language ‘image and likeness of Adam’ is the same covenantal language God used regarding Adam on the sixth day of creation as the Lord laid out for Adam the terms of his existence within the framework of the covenant that God made with him” since Adam, and Eve, were, “God created man in his own image, in the image of God”—not likeness (Gen 1).

I he has a subsection titled, “Seed of the Serpent” he notes, “Cain’s seed…is the image of his father, the devil.” Now, we have one on the record sin for Cain: murder. Pastor Worthen then quotes, “Cain kills his brother Abel, and a few generations later,” mind you, “comes Lamech. Genesis 4:23-24 Lamech said to his wives, ‘Adah and Zillah, Listen to my voice, You wives of Lamech, Give heed to my speech, For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me; If Cain is avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.’”

Thus, we have one on the record sin for Lamech (assuming that polygamy was a sin back then) or maybe two is, that is, “killed a man for wounding me” was not justified self-defense.

Thus, overall, we have 2 or maybe as many as 3 on the record sin for Cain’s entire lineage.

Now, what of Sethies? Well, he notes, “In contrast, at the end of chapter 4, we see the introduction of the seed of the woman. Genesis 4:26 To Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then men began to call upon the name of the LORD.”

His take on the generic reference to that, “men” (his or the version he is quoting’s italics) seemingly in general, “began to call upon the name of the LORD” actually very specifically refers to that while, “This translation almost makes it sound as if men did not call upon the name of the Lord until sometime after Enosh was born…the phrase is really identifying men from the time of Seth through Enosh, and beyond, as continuing to call upon the name of the Lord, as we know that Abel and Adam had already been doing.”

But then again, how do we know that? One issue is just what does, “call upon the name of the Lord” mean? We have two on the record conversations between Adam and God, with the latter being at the Lord’s impetus and we do not have a record of Able having any discussion with God but we know that, “Abel…brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,” (Gen 4).

Pastor Worthen actually thinks that, “A better translation is found in the ESV. Genesis 4:26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the LORD.” Yet, he takes an equally vague, “people” to very, very specifically mean that only, “the group identified with the covenant promises passed on to Seth and Enosh, called upon the name of the Lord…those identified with a particular family line, those born to Seth and Enosh, who are distinguished from the family of Cain.”

After quoting that the singular individual, “Cain went out from the presence of the LORD” Pastor Worthen generalizes that stamen, into, “Cain’s line is one that is identified with moving away from God, not calling upon the name of the Lord” (emphasis added for emphasis).

Let us now get to how this relates to the Gen 6 affair (as I term it), “Chapter 5 identifies this people of God, the sons of God, in a covenant son-ship relationship to the Creator, and then chapter 6 shows the covenant people marrying into both seeds as they come into the daughters of men” thus, this view has it that, after all, people of God, the sons of God, in a covenant son-ship relationship to the Creator were not really people of God, the sons of God, in a covenant son-ship relationship to the Creator since they were such terrible sinners that their sin served as the premise for the flood. He puts it as, “the seed of Seth, real people, who betray the covenantal community by taking women from the seed of Cain.”

He then quotes Gen 6 (he quotes a version he cites as, “NAU”), “Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.”

He asks and answers, “who are the men who began to multiply on the face of the land? Well, chapters 4 and 5 identifies these people. They were the seed of Cain and the seed of Seth as daughters were being born to the two seeds.” Yet, chapter 5 identifies these people the seed of Cain and the seed of Seth and also the seed of, “other sons and daughters” (Gen 5) whom Adam and Eve had.

Yet, directly after telling us, “men who began to multiply…were the seed of Cain and the seed of Seth” he tells us, “this phrase in Gen.6:1, ‘men began to multiply on the face of the land’ identifies all peoples of the earth.”

When he gets to Gen 6:3, “Then the LORD said, ‘My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years’” he notes, “an activity on the part of God that is directed toward man who is also identified as flesh, not flesh/angel.” Yet, at least in English: humans, Angels, Nephilim, and God are all referred to as man/men. And yet, it is a styled non-issue since of course the Bible’s main focus is always humanity: our creation, fall, redemption and how anything else, including actions by Satan, Angels, God, etc., affect us.

He asks, “did the angels/demons/sons of God, who supposedly married the daughters of men, die in the flood as well, or were they simply inhabiting the bodies of real people, in which case the sons of God were not really angels but demon possessed people?” Well, that is a false trichotomy: they did not die in the flood, nor do Angels ever possess anyone, nor did demons even exist yet.

Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated (in Tartarus as Peter puts it), and there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible. So, if the Gen 6 affair was not that sin then, pray tell, what and when was it? We would have no data about that and no one could know to what Jude and Peter were referring.

As for my claim that, “demons even exist yet,” please see my article, Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

Pastor Drew Worthen further argumentatively asks, “But if these sons of God/angels were real angels and they too died in the flood, along with all flesh, can we assume that they took on flesh, became incarnate, and presumably relinquished their former status as angels, albeit fallen angels, who are spirits according the writer of Hebrews?”

There is no indication that any Angel takes on flesh and, in fact, they could not since Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such is not their ontology—see my book, What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology.

Thus, they do not and cannot take on that which they already possess. But then, “if these sons of God/angels were real angels and they too died in the flood, along with all flesh” no, because there are two (or three) exceptions to what is being referred to as, “all flesh”: 1. Noah, his wife, their three sons, and their wives, 2. Angels, and the possible 3. (depending on how one understands flesh) are the animals on the ark and some sea-dwellers.

As for, “angels, who are spirits according the writer of Hebrews” that is based on how the modern English version he is reading wrongly mistranslated one word in one sentence.

Heb 1 quotes and plays off of Psalm 104:4 and there is a reason why there are English versions that have, “winds” rather than, “spirits” in the Psalm (with which translations of Heb 1 should be consistent) and that is that the whole context of the Psalm consists of constant references to and correlations to natural phenomena so, therein, what surely Pastor Worthen’s version has as, “maketh his angels spirits” (as the KJV has it) some 44 English versions have as that He makes them winds.

Ergo, it should be, “angels, who are winds according the writer of Hebrews.”

Pastor Worthen then asks, “Can an angel die a physical death and for that matter can an angel pass on ‘angel DNA to ‘human DNA to the daughters of men so as to create a hybrid being made up of angel and human?”

It seems that Angel, “die a physical death” in that they are removed from the physical 3D existence that is commonly experienced by humans, lose their bodies, etc. and yet, they too will experience a styled form or resurrection—again, see my article about demons for details.

Yes, they can, “pass on ‘angel DNA to ‘human DNA’” or rather, combined with human DNA since, again, Angels are described as looking just like human males and performing physical actions and without any indication that such is not their ontology so, why would they only be missing key features of the human make up, what makes up our anatomy.

He also asks, “And what about all creatures producing after their ‘kind’” well, again (and again) Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such is not their ontology and we were created, “a little lower” (Psa 8:5) than them, and we can reproduce with them so, by definition, we are of the same basic kind.

He asks, “what about…Christ’s statement that angels in heaven do not marry, and thus do not have sexual relations with women?” this is the only one thus far that he attempts to deal with, with anything more than an assertion in the form of styled gotcha questions. He notes, “some proponents of ‘sons of God = angels’ state that Jesus was only identifying angels ‘in heaven’ not fallen angels who evidently were capable of having sexual relations with women in marriage relationships” indeed, and note that he did not quote Jesus’ words.

Jesus’ statement was very detailed, very nuanced, He employed qualifying terms, “the angels of God in heaven.” So, not all Angels at all times in all places but the loyal ones, “of God” and, “in heaven” which is why those who did marry are considered sinners since they, “left their first estate,” as Jude put it, in order to do so.

Yet, Pastor Worthen claims that actually reading what Jesus said and applying it, “begs the question, where in Genesis 6 does it explicitly or even implicitly state that these sons of God are identified as fallen angels, especially in light of the fact that these are supposedly the same sons of God identified in Job who are apparently good angels, as they are distinguished from Satan and were apparently present at the creation of the universe as” the sons of God shouted for joy”?”

There are a few ways to answer, “where in Genesis 6 does it explicitly or even implicitly state that these sons of God are identified as fallen angels”:

1. a hidden assumption is some sort of implied universal imperative that Gen 6 must, “explicitly or even implicitly state that these sons of God are identified as fallen angels” but there is no linguistic requirement that it do any such thing.

There is no universal imperative that what he wrote in English as, “angels” can only ever be referred to as, “angels”: such as when he just referred to Malakim as angels—who are also referred to as אִישׁ/’îš/ish/men (Gen 18) and /אֱלֹהִים/’ĕlōhîm (Psalm 82 wherein the lower elohim are told by the Elohim who rules over them, “like men you shall die” and men do not need to be told that they will die like men), etc.

Every language allows for any one thing to be referred to in more than one way and for any one word or term or phrase to be used in more than one way.

Job 38:7, as one example, shows us that sons of God can refer to non-human beings (which the Septuagint/LXX has as Angeloi, plural of Angelos) since they, at the very least, witnessed the creation of the Earth.

2. a distinction is drawn between sons who are of God and daughters who are of men and his preferred view has it that only exclusively male (supposed) people of God, the sons of God, in a covenant son-ship relationship to the Creator married only exclusively femalenon-people of God, the non-daughters of God, not in a covenant son/daughter-ship relationship to the Creator. Why were there not any attractive (alleged) female people of God, the sons of God, in a covenant son-ship relationship to the Creator nor attractive male non-s?

Well, the Angel view explains why there was such a clear distinction: Angels are male, they copulated with human females.

3. again, the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the Angel view.

4. again, there is the Jude and 2 Peter 2 combo issue and that one-time fall/sin of Angels.

On point 3., Pastor Drew Worthen notes, “these are supposedly the same sons of God identified in Job who are apparently good angels, as they are distinguished from Satan and were apparently present at the creation of the universe as ‘the sons of God shouted for joy”?

It would seem that indeed, in Job chaps 1, 2, and 38 sons of God are good Angels and that term is used in Gen 6 to identify that reference is being made to Angels but they are never referred to as sons of God after they sinned.

As for, “distinguished from Satan” well, that is because he is not an Angel, he is a Cherub (Ezek 18) and also because by the Job chaps 1-2 timeline, he was already fallen.

He then focuses on Nephilim, “Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.”

He notes, “The name Nephilim is sometimes translated giants, but the passage actually identifies who these people were. These were mighty men or men of renown with emphasis on the designation ‘men.’”

On a technical linguistics level, it is a case of that Nephilim is sometimes rendered giants which only begs these questions: what is the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word giants in English Bibles? What is any given user’s usage (such as Pastor Worthen, those who render Nephilim as such, etc.)? Do those two usages agree?

As for, “people…men” well, this is another case of linguistics, terminology, and they were half-(hu)man.”

Pastor Drew Worthen opines, “Nephilim are introduced as almost a sub-group of the seed of the serpent” which, again, is mythical prejudice as is that Cainite women, “influenced in an ungodly way.”

He notes, “In the midst of this crossing over of seeds, the Nephilim, or men of renown, were also on the earth in those days at the same time many of the sons of God married into the seed of the serpent.”

He implies that Nephilim have no relation to those marriages. The Gen 6 affair narrative’s contextual focus is the sons of God and daughters of men: their attraction, their marriage, and their offspring. Thus, it would violate that narrative’s contextual focus to artificially insert a mere passing reference to some unrelated Nephilim guys who just happened to be around at the time, are mentioned for no apparent reason, and about whom nothing more is said in relation to the narrative’s contextual focus.

He adds, “it is apparent that the Nephilim, (men of renown), continued to have a powerful presence right up to the judgment of water by God as the text makes clear. ‘The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward…’ It has been argued from this last statement that the Nephilim were on the earth both before and after the flood. And of course, we know that a reference is made after the flood identifying the Nephilim.”

So, it is a case of, “right up to the judgment of water” or, “after the flood” as some have argued.

Now, that there is, “reference…after the flood identifying the Nephilim” is an interesting manner in which to put it—stand by.

He quotes, Numbers 13:32-33 So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, ‘The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.’”

This causes him to ask and argue, “If the Nephilim were the product of angels having sexual relations with the daughters of men before the flood, resulting in a direct correlation to God’s judgment, it does raise the issue of how this same phenomenon can take place at the end of the age through a fiery global judgment, (with no mention of angels contributing to the destruction of the world in the second judgment from God), as Jesus Christ makes reference to only men as being guilty of sin, in Matthew 24, resulting in this fiery judgment.”

Granting, “Nephilim were the product of angels having sexual relations with the daughters of men” there is still no indication, “this same phenomenon can take place at the end of the age” in any way—and note that he merely asserted that.

Note that he quoted, “they gave” without telling us who they were. But, at least he did quote the part about how they presented, “a bad report.”

Well, the they were 10 unreliable guys whom presented an unreliable report and were rebuked by God. That report contained five mere assertions that are unbacked by even one single other sentence in the whole Bible and they contradicted Moses, Caleb, Joshua, God, and the rest of the entire Bible—see my post Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

The reason why, “reference…after the flood…” was interesting manner in which to put it is that a reference does not necessarily mean anything more that just that. I can reference the first POTUS George Washington right now but that does not mean he is alive. Likewise, the 10 guys merely asserted having seen them but that is a literal logical, bio-logical, and theo-logical impossibility since God didn’t fail, didn’t miss a loophole, the flood wasn’t much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

Pastor Drew Worthen notes, “man along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky are all part of this global judgment that we see in Gen.6:7. Conspicuously missing are angels disguised as ‘sons of God’, aka – demons. The reason? Demons have their own final judgment called the Lake of Fire whom they will share with fallen resurrected humans, called the second death.”

This is a more complex statement than it may appear:

1. he presupposes that the sons of God are not Angels and so concludes they are, “Conspicuously missing” so the presupposed deck is stacked.

2. the term “angels disguised as ‘sons of God’, aka – demons” is rather odd: they were sons of God and later became demons.

3. technically, demons will re-become Angels and eventually (after the whole ruckus that begins at Rev 9) off into, “eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Mat 25).

Pastor Drew Worthen claims, “our Lord Jesus in Mat.24:38 gives no indication other than that human beings, (not even limited to a special class of humans, i.e., men of renown), were marrying and giving in marriage up until the flood, which was the normal practice among human beings including those identified with the seed of the covenant, (sons of God).” Yet, he can only say that after rejecting the Angel view since Jesus spoke generally about, “marrying and giving in marriage” and even if we grant that His reference was specifically to human marriages, that does not mean that Angel/human marriages did not take place but only that Jesus was referring to human ones due to His context regarding, “that day and hour…the coming of the Son of Man…two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake…you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

Thus, we cannot take a text focused on humanity and about the effects that the second coming will have on humanity and point out that it does not refer to non-humanity.

Consider a more detailed record of what Jesus said and note that Jesus’ words, His emphasis, His points, His context, were:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

But He kept speaking directly with:

Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed (Luke 17).

Thus, this was about examples of being unaware/unconcerned about coming judgment.

And so, what Pastor Worthen did was to take a text, the emphasis of which is the second coming and attempted to turn it into one about the pre-flood judgment. He argued, “Jesus could have cleared up this mystery of angels/demons cohabitating with daughters of men…resulting in a global flood. But there is no hint from Jesus that anyone other than human beings are responsible for such a judgment” but this is to ignore Jude and 2 Peter 2, at the very least—on top of that Jesus was not exegeting Gen 6 but was appealing to it for one application to His teaching about the second coming.

Now, we have already see that he tends towards writing in terms of the categorically inaccurate term, “angels/demons” and he next wrote that, “The argument that the phrase ‘sons of God’ must mean demons having sexual relations, through the covenant of marriage with women, makes no sense in light of what Christ clearly says.”

Quite right, it makes no sense and virtually no one historically has held to that aberrant version of the Angel view.

But note the odd qualifier, “demons having sexual relations, through the covenant of marriage” well, Angels at least did get married but it was still elicit since they are not, “given in marriage” and so took it upon themselves. Thus, there was no such thing as demons having sexual relations, through the covenant of marriage nor even Angels having sexual relations, through the covenant of marriage since marriage was not for them.

As Pastor Worthen puts it, “And this also raises questions regarding the covenant of marriage which was instituted by God on day six, and was reserved for who? Not demons and women” or Angels and women—indeed.

Likewise when he notes, “Angels having sexual relations with women do not equal one flesh that could be identified as marriage, as is clearly seen in Genesis 6.” Indeed, that was part of the whole problem, part of why they are considered sinners.

He makes good points but misapplies them.

Next, he notes of the term sons of God, “let me show how this phrase and other similar phrases are used” and focuses on how, “for clarity it is important to understand that the N.T. is the fulfillment of the Old and what is intimated in the Old is revealed more fully in the New” and so he jumps millennia of time and into another langue to quote usages of that term in the New Testament. Yet, all that gets him is that he asks, “if the sons of God are always associated with the covenant people of God, the seed of the woman, how is it that an unholy angel could possibly be associated with the name that is only designated with those who belong to God?”

But we can just as easily as: if the sons of God are always associated with the covenant people of God, the seed of the woman, how is it that unholy people could possibly be associated with the name that is only designated with those who belong to God?

As for how it can apply to Angels, I already noted that it does so to identify then but never again, post-sin/fall.

He then admits, “The actual phrase, ‘sons of God,’ as some theologians identify it with angels” which he lists as Gen 6:2, 4, Job chaps 1, 2 and 38(to which we could add Ps 82, etc.)

He also notes, “There are a couple of N.T. passages in the letters from Jude and Peter that some use in connection with Genesis 6 to make their argument for angels cohabitating with women” referring to Jude and 2 Peter 2 but he complains, “in these NT passages, they are identified as angels, not sons of God,” which is linguistically irrelevant, “But because they are identified as angels many reason backward to Genesis and Job and place the two together to explain the same thing.”

And yet, he reasoned backward to apply the New Testament Greek usage of sons of God into the millennias previous Hebrew bene he Elohim/sons of God. Recall that he has noted, “The larger context must be brought to bear to arrive at what the Holy Spirit was conveying…”

Pastor Drew Worthen wrote, “Therefore, according to this reasoning, if angels left their first domain and sinned by having sexual intercourse with women and also marrying them, (which is not stated in either Jude or 2Peter), this can only be adduced by forcing Genesis back into these two NT passages.”

Yet, according to this reasoning, since Angels left their first domain and sinned by having sexual intercourse with women and also marrying them, (which is the logical and chrono-logical conclusion of Jude or 2Peter), this can only be adduced by having, “The larger context must be brought to bear” since Jude and Peter were referring us back to Genesis.

For support, Pastor Drew Worthen turns to an article by Thomas A. Howe, “in the Practical Hermeneutics column of the Christian Research Journal, volume 27, number 3 (2004)” who is quoted thusly:

Other commentators appeal to Jude 6–7 to support their contention that the “sons of God” were unfallen or heavenly angels who then fell because they had sexual relations with female humans. They argue that Jude compared the prideful fallen angels to the sexually immoral people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

The problem with this assertion is that it assumes what it must prove. Proponents of this argument use their interpretation of Genesis 6 to understand Jude, and then use their understanding of Jude to support their interpretation of Genesis 6. This is circular reasoning.

For an examination of Howe’s view, see my double whammy of a review: On Thomas Howe on Chuck Missler on the Nephilim: the Ancient Angel View.

So, since Worthen and Howe reject the Angel view can we say that to support their contention that the “sons of God” were not unfallen or heavenly angels who then fell because they had sexual relations with female humans. They argue that Jude did not compare the prideful fallen angels to the sexually immoral people of Sodom and Gomorrah. The problem with this assertion is that it assumes what it must prove. Proponents of this argument use their interpretation of Genesis 6 to understand Jude, and then use their understanding of Jude to support their interpretation of Genesis 6. This is circular reasoning.

In any case, the reason to take Jude as doing just that, correlating the two, is that he did just that, “the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire.”

Yet, Pastor Worthen reiterates his view and thus, deepens its problem which, again, is that besides the admitted, “places…where the phrase ‘sons of God’ is used” of Angels, in the Greek of millennia later, it is in reference to, “one group called human beings who are in covenant with God by faith or in covenant by association with that group of faith” who were not in covenant with God by faith or in covenant by association with that group of faith.

He then circles back to critiquing the Angel view by focusing on, “Dr. Jonathan Sarfati (also a contributor to Creation Ministries International), in his book entitled, ‘The Genesis Account’” wherein he supposedly, “unfortunately draws this…conclusion” since, “He says this regarding Job 38:4-7: ‘The Hebrew phrase for sons of God is bnei elohim. This means ‘angels’ in the Old Testament—indeed, the NIV renders this phrase ‘angels’, and the LXX has angeloi.”(pg.77).”

He complains that, “Dr. Sarfati’s premise is that every time the exact phrase, ‘sons of God’ is used in the Old Testament it necessarily means angels. At this point in the book no exegesis or hermeneutical evidence is given to arrive at that conclusion…Later in his book (chapter 16; again with the absence of any exegesis of Genesis 6 or Job), he will use what he believes are other corroborating verses to support his position.”

And then he concludes, “the Hebrew word for angel in every other portion of the O.T uses the word malak” but they are also generally and generically referred to as man/men/אִישׁ/’îš.

Interestingly, he also notes, “when the NIV and the LXX uses the word angel in those portions, (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), it becomes an interpretation, or commentary, not a literal translation” but then again, those versions reply on the Masoretic which is more recent than the LXX.

He makes the point upon which I touched earlier which is that, “one would be hard pressed to conclude that anyone identified as a son or child of God, be they angel or man, necessarily means an enemy of God” so he is at least conscious, at some level, that it is a non-issue, not a point against the Angel view.

He admits, “what is apparent is that the sons of God, identified with Seth, would not be demonstrating godly lives at the time they went into those daughters of men, identified with Cain” (recall that they are both identified as such only as per his assertions) so that, again, the sons of God, identified with Angels, would not be demonstrating godly lives at the time they went into those daughters of men, identified as fully human women in general.

He then goes back to the merely asserted, “the line of unbeliever’s whose seed is identified with Cain…a generally ungodly people…follow after other gods…that ungodly seed.”

He comes to the point of asserting, “when we are told in Gen.6:4 that the sons of God came into the daughters of men, whatever else one might believe about angels, and if in fact these are angels, then angels in that verse would be declared by God to be in a favorable, or a My Angels covenant relationship with Him at that point.”

I am quite unsure how, “that verse would be declared by God to be in a favorable, or a My Angels covenant relationship with Him at that point” since it is part of the premise for the flood—plus, Jude’s and Peter’s statements.

Pastor Worthen argues that is sons of God, “are necessarily saying that God’s chosen angels in Gen.6:2, (not demons)…This means that after this act, My Angels, (sons of God), became Not My Angels, (demons). Now, if this is the case, then Satan continues to bring God’s chosen angels into his kingdom, (which undermines the biblical truth of God choosing unto life), so logically, God’s chosen angels, (‘sons of God’), still have the opportunity to turn against God until the final day,” which is wholly a non-sequitur of an assertion.

He then focuses on the Job chapters and notes, “the Hebrew phrase, bnei Elohim. It is not a phrase specifically denoting angels. It is the phrase, as we have been arguing, that is associated or identified with God’s covenant people and community” but that is just arguing to argue since God’s covenant people and community do not predate the Earth—as my previous point about Job 38:7.

He had asked us to, “apply a proper exegesis to those passages” but, at this point, he narrows his focus on, “The Hebrew word for angel is malak and therefore it must be implied that it defines a son of God as an angel in the context of Job.”

This is a case of a word-concept fallacy: he is bypassing the clearly obvious context and is moving the goalpost to a single word. Let us grant that Malakim are not mentioned in Job: what of it? The bene ha Elohim can still refer to Malakim, by any other name.

Call that my comment was not specifically that they are Malakim but was more nuanced in that they can be, “can refer to non-human beings.”

I certainly take them to be Angels but am careful enough to take it as far as the context will allow and no further, I only take it farther when I go into the application of it all—the greater context level of application.

But demanding that, “Job were making the case that these who are designated sons of God are in fact angels, then malak would certainly be an appropriate word to use” is to impose upon Job’s author a pseudo-rule not applicable to any language in history since, again, “Every language allows for any one thing to be referred to in more than one way and for any one word or term or phrase to be used in more than one way.”

He notes, “I believe the NIV and the LXX versions of the bible insert the word angels into these 3 passages in Job” which is true but the issue is whether it was viably done or not.

At this point, he is clearly in arguing to argue mode which will not allow him to just accept what texts state outright nor imply. He also creates problems that he then seeks to solve and so seems to himself to have a better grasp of the issue.

Yet, quite the opposite is the case since, for example, he argues, “It is assumed that” the Job chaps 1-2 texts are about, “angels coming before God and Satan joining them in the process, in heaven…it is true that angels surround the throne of God and worship the Lord and are sent…But this is assuming that only angels can present themselves before the Lord and that this can only happen in heaven.”

But how could that possibly be since, again, Satan is not an Angel thus, this was a non-issue/non-argument.

Yet, Pastor Worthen continues by offering, “two other options both of which can utilize the phrase ‘sons of God’ as being human beings in both a heavenly setting and an earthly setting” which are:

1. “the less plausible of the two options that Job is addressing…human beings who have died and whose spirits are issued into the presence of God.” He thinks that, “one particular human being who was shown to be fully alive after death and who was in the presence of the Lord” is to be derived from God telling Cain, “The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground” (Genesis 4:10).

Somehow, that, “Abel’s spirit was with the Lord and that he was presenting himself before the Lord expressing himself in a way where the Lord could hear his cries?

Yet, Able did not observe the creation of the Earth.

2. “human beings, designated sons of God, who are on the earth as they present themselves before the Lord.”

Yet, human beings such as Able did not observe the creation of the Earth.

He writes, “If these are righteous angels and we are using this portion of Scripture to support the idea that Genesis 6 is also describing the sons of God as angels, then we are back again to the problem of righteous angels acting wickedly toward the daughters of men by cohabitating with them, where some also use Jude as a proof text for this act, which forces these righteous angels to leave their proper abode as God judges them.”

These are already dealt with non-issues: it is about when righteous angels acted wickedly so were no longer thereafter righteous just like his view has it that, “If these are righteous humans and we are using this portion of Scripture to support the idea that Genesis 6 is also describing the sons of God as humans, then we are back again to the problem of righteous humans acting wickedly toward the daughters of men by cohabitating with them…”

He also argues, “So, once again, we are back to righteous angels being able to lose their righteous standing long after the initial angelic rebellion of those who followed Satan, prior to him tempting Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.”

Note the artificial insertion of the qualifier, “long after.” For one, long is a subjective term and for two, there is only a one-time sin/fall/rebellion of Angels so there is no such thing as, “lose their righteous standing” long or one day, “after the initial angelic rebellion of those who followed Satan” since there is no indication of a, “prior to him tempting Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden” sin/fall/rebellion for either of them.

Again, Satan’s sin/fall/rebellion timeline is within the Gen 3 range and the sin/fall/rebellion of Angels is within the Gen 6 range.

That there was some primordial, pre-Adam and Eve or even pre-universe or even pre-Earth, sin/fall/rebellion of Satan is un-biblical man-made tradition.

For some odd reason, he cycles and circles: he has already addressed this more then once but ends up getting to the point of writing, “I would now like to address the notion of angels being designated sons of God who present themselves before the Lord in the book of Job” and goes at it once again.

Eventually, he comes to that, “to exegete verse 7 [of Job 38] it must be done within the context of the entire passage which has the creation of the universe as its foundational premise” and is, “inextricably linked to chapters 38-41 where the Lord admonishes Job with the reality that God is bigger than anything that Job may be experiencing in the earth” such that he did not witness its creation but bene ha Elohim did.

Pastor Worthen notes, “God is using language that explains His creation using architectural characteristics that humans would utilize in construction, along with other anthropomorphisms” of which Job was unaware since, again, he did not witness it.

Oddly, he quotes and comments, “Job 38:8 8 Or who enclosed the sea with doors When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; The sea obviously is not enclosed with doors any more than the waters burst forth from the womb of a woman.”

Yet, the sea is enclosed with the doors of the shores around the world which is why the planet is not covered in water and water most certainly does proceed forth from the womb—ever hear a pregnant woman saying, “My water just broke”?

And yet, of course Job contains metaphor and symbolism but that still leaves us with the issue of the witnessing of the creation of the Earth since of course Job contains mundanely literal statements as well.

So, perhaps we can say that when God claims to have created everything, that is a metaphorical symbol and did not really happen. Well, of course Pastor Worthen would not come to that conclusion and yet, he does come to the conclusion that Job 38:7 does not say what it means nor means what it says even though the creation of the Earth is the premise upon which all of the other references to the Earth’s contents are based.

Yet, since Pastor Worthen’s goal is to do away with the Job 38:7 bene ha Elohim being Angels, he only notices one side of the metaphor and symbolism versus mundanely literal statements since it is not as much a dichotomy but that both are being played upon.

He notes, “The sea does not have a bolt and doors to keep it in its place…Snow and hail is not deposited in storehouses….Ice and frost are not delivered as in childbirth,” etc. yet, the verse on which he bases those statement state, for example, “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, Or have you seen the storehouses of the hail…”

Snow is mundanely literal and storehouses is not so it is a combo statement.

Yet, he argues, “these are not angels witnessing God’s handiwork prior to man being created on day 6.”

He does note, “I like the idea of angels being special witnesses to the handiwork of God, despite the fact that the word angels is not used in that passage.”

He then opines, “The Scriptures don’t tell us anywhere as to when the angels were created, though it is certainly inferred that it must have been somewhere within that six day period as on the seventh day the Lord ceased His special creative work, of which angels were necessarily a part.” Thus, he has managed to remove them from the first verses of Gen 1 via a subjective, “must have been” and so he removes from possibility that they witnessed the creation of the Earth—based on a mere assertion of a qualifying term.

He opts for watering down the reference to the Earth so universe, “it is certainly possible that angels were created before man and before the end of the creative process as they rejoiced over the universe being spoken into existence by God.”

The end result conclusion of his desperate attempt to not allow Angels to be referenced in Job 38:7, by any other name, is, “The jury may still be out on Job 38:7, but if we are coming to the table to use the phrase, ‘sons of God’ as a pretext for defining this phrase in all of the OT as being equated with angels, then it is going after a bridge too far in my estimation.” But the bridge too far is of his own making since the Angel view claim is not necessarily that, “this phrase in all of the OT as being equated with angels” even if some individuals make that claim.

So, it seems that the jury he has consulted, even of his own peers, are still out.

His overall, “Conclusion” section notes, “To move from human beings being condemned by God because of Adam’s rebellion, (albeit through the temptation of a rebellious angel), and following the history of the promised seed of hope given to Eve, and then to drop into that context a completely novel idea not previously, or afterward, identified anywhere in the word of God, (namely, angels having sexual and marital relations with women), is simply inconsistent with any meaningful exegesis.”

Yet, we could just as easily argue that he is moving from human beings being condemned by God because of Adam’s rebellion to a completely novel idea not previously identified which would be the insertion of the temptation of a rebellious Cherub, any mention of the Cherub, is simply inconsistent with any meaningful exegesis. The appearance of the serpent in Gen 3 is just as un-contextual as the appearance of the sons of God in Gen 6. And such is just common to any and all story telling: there are just those ex machina moments at which a new character is introduced ex nihilo for the very first time and without precedence.

He notes, “the phrase, ‘sons of God’ in Genesis 6 and the book of Job. The actual words used cannot give you a clear definition that ‘sons of God’ in those passages are angels” and yet, the immediate plus greater plus cultural and historical contexts combined paint that picture for us and doing so creates no problems with any actual text.

See my various books here.

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Isaac Hunter answers What are Nephilim?

Isaac Hunter, “a writer of supernatural suspense novels,” posted a podcast including many appreciated notes titled What are Nephilim?

He notes that it’s based on, “research I’m doing to finish off my dissertation for the Doctor of Theology program I recently completed.”

He seeks to elucidate, “peculiar references in the Bible made about Nephilim. What are these ‘beings?’ Where did they come from? Where did they go? Did the New Testament writers know about them? If so, what was their view? Are the Nephilim still among us even today?” and offers to, “jump in and see if we can cut through the controversy……” and provides a URL to, “The Whole Sorted Story” which leads to a YouTube page that states, “The playlist does not exist.”

He quotes the Gen 6 affair, as I term it, thusly:
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose….There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Since he opted for a modern English version that reads, “giants” he notes, “There were giants on the earth then (and after)” and, “The giants were the product…” and, “giants were known as ‘the mighty men of old, men of renown,” and, “Giants = nephilim (γίγαντες LXX),” and, “Giants occurs 3 times in the OT: Ge 6:2; Nu 13:33.”

Since he jumped from the specific ancient Hebrew word Nephilim to the modern generically subjective English one giants we have to attempt to figure out what’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word giants in English Bibles? What’s his usage? Do those two usages agree?

He told us, “Giants = nephilim” so he must be merely rendering (not even translating) the word Nephilim with the word giants without any other implications nor hidden assumptions.

As for, γίγαντες, that transliterates as gigantes and means earth-born—for more details, see my linguistics book Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010.

I’m unsure to what he’s referring by, “Giants occurs 3 times in the OT” since it occurs a lot more than that. So, he’s either reading a very odd version (which he didn’t cite) or he’s unaware of that fact. In fact, the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word giants in English Bibles is that it merely renders (doesn’t even translate) Nephilim in 2 verses or Repha/im in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.

Interestingly, he noted, “you should always use multiple translations and a broad spectrum of study tools.”

He then includes a good section arguing in favor of the Angel view of the Gen 6 affair. The original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the “Angel view” as I proved in my book, On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

He then notes, “two points of opposition to the angelic view of Genesis 6:2.”

One is, “1. Angels are spiritual beings and thus cannot procreate or even exist on the earthly plane…Paul makes it clear, angels have bodies (1 Co 15:40)…” indeed, Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology. See my book, What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology.

The second is, “Jesus stated in Ma 22:30 and Mark 12:25 that angels are not able to procreate….the issue is, Jesus never said that angels ‘couldn’t’ procreate. He simply states they don’t. And, mind you, he says the angels in heaven: Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:24-25 ‘..in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.’”
Well said, not all Angels at all times in all places but the loyal ones, “of God” and “in heaven” which is why those who did marry are considered sinners since they, “left their first estate,” as Jude put it, in order to do so.

He also notes, “Arguments Against Jude and Peter” about which I will succinctly note that Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated, and there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible.

So, if the Gen 6 affair wasn’t that sin the, pray tell, what was it?
As for, “what about these Nephilim?” he notes, “The Genesis 6:2, 4 account states everything we need to know about these creatures…They were giant compared to average sized men” but Gen 6 doesn’t even hint at any such thing at all.
He notes, “it stands to reason that these hybrid creatures were killed in Noah’s flood” indeed.

So then, “How did they show up in Numbers 13:33?”
He generically wrote, “This is the account when the spies were sent in to scout out the promised land and they returned with stories of giants that made them look like grasshoppers in comparison.”

Let’s add some key details, “This is the account when the” 10 of the 12, “spies were sent in to scout out the promised land and” the 10 unreliable ones, ,”returned with stories of” Nephilim, “that made them look like grasshoppers in comparison” which they stated within an, “evil report” for which they were rebuked by God—they’re report, which comes after the first, reliable, report, consists of five mere assertions and they contradicted Moses, Caleb, Joshua, God, and the rest of the whole entire Bible: for more details, see my post Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

As per Isaac Hunter, the issue is, “if the nephilim were wiped out back in the flood, how is there yet still nephilim all these generations later?” and he offers 4 options but leaves out the biblical answer.

“1. There are ancient writings that say Noah was a nephilim or that his wife bore a child to one of the angels”: “ancient” is a subjective term since, sure, that’s ancient to us but it still comes from millennia after the Torah which is even more ancient still. That, “Noah was a Nephilim,” it’d actually be the singular Nephil, is logically, bio-logically, and theo-logically impossible since God didn’t fail, didn’t miss a loophole, the flood wasn’t much of a waste, etc., etc., etc. And that, “his wife bore a child to one of the angels” is equally folkloric, Bible contradicting, and theology proper damaging.
“2. There is another account that one of the nephilim survived the flood by riding on the outside of the ark.” There’s actually no such thing. He’s referring to another late-dated folkloric tall-tale from millennia after the Torah which is about Og, the Repha (not Nephil), which implies that God failed, missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc. and contradicts the Bible five times (Genesis 7:7, 23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5) since we’re told who survived the flood but Nephilim are never listed (and Rephaim didn’t even exist yet: Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids, Rephaim were strictly post-flood humans, and there’s zero correlation between them).

“3. It has been assumed that what happened in Genesis 6:2, 4 (sexual relations between angels and humans) occurred again after the flood.” Any and all un-biblical post-flood Nephilim tall-tales throwing God and His Word under the bus by implying that He failed, missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc. There’s not only literally zero indication of any such thing but the sinful Angels (recall the one-time sin of Angels) were incarcerated (Jude and 2 Peter 2).
“4. Somehow their DNA were supernaturally preserved by Satan” which also contradicts the Bible five times and implies that Satan got one over on God which made the flood much of a waste.
The biblical answer is that the last of Nephilim drowned in the flood, they didn’t make it past the flood in any way, shape, or form, but centuries post-flood 10 unreliable guys made up a fantasy tall-tale about them: without that one sentence they stated there’d be not even a reason for inventing theology proper damaging fantasy tall-tales about post-flood Nephilim—without siding with guys whom God rebuked rather than with the God who rebuked them, post-flood Nephilologists literally have nothing on which to go.
Isaac Hunter actually wrote:

All we can be certain of is the Genesis 6:2, 4 account states emphatically, “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.
1. Giants were on the earth immediately after this account, and also afterward. However they got around the judgment of the flood, they got around it.
2. Both the first instance and the second instance were the result of procreation between the “sons of God” and the daughters of men.

Note that he actually asserted, “Giants were on the earth immediately after this account, and also afterward…the judgment of the flood.”

Yet, Gen 6:4 doesn’t say a single word about, “the judgment of the flood”: the flood’s not even mentioned for the very first time until a full 13 verses later.

And he asserted, “Giants were on the earth immediately after…the judgment of the flood” after having quoted where Gen 6:4 tells us to what days it’s referring, “those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.”

When was that?

Well, Gen 6 begins by telling us, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them” (ESV) which could have been as early as when Adam and Eve’s children first began having children with each other.

Thus, let’s fix up his sentence, “Giants were on the earth immediately after this account, and also afterward of when man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them” which is all pre-flood.

And note that he asserted, “they got around, they got around it” so the flood was much of a waste, etc.
As for, “Both…were the result of procreation between the ‘sons of God’ and the daughters of men” there’s literally zero indication of that—if for no other reason that procreation between the sons of God and the daughters of men doesn’t result in fantasy tall-tales.

Based on relying on one single sentence from an unreliable evil report by unreliable guys whom God rebuked, Isaac Hunter asserts, “It is speculated that these hybrid creatures, not quite as divine as their fathers (the sons of God), and yet still radically different than their mothers” but the dirty little secret is that since we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim then their height is a non-issue and that alone debunks 99% of un-biblical Nephilology—the modern branch of which is just un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales.

Yet, since Angels are always described as looking like human males and human women look like human woman then since both sides of Nephilim parentage look like humans: why wouldn’t they?

He adds, “when they died in the flood…some have concluded that these disembodied spirits (what we would actually think of as ethereal beings) roam the earth as what the Bible describes as demons.”

Well, that does away with physical post-flood Nephilim and yet, that demons are the spirits of dead Nephilim is just folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah. For a biblical view, please see my article, Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?

He notes, “Demons are not mentioned or referenced in the OT. They are not brought up until Jesus’ ministry” but he needs to search for OT terms such as shed/im, et al., which may appear as spirits in the version he’s using.
He seeks to critique the later-comer, “Sethite view” (which is based on myth and prejudice) by countering that, “Why would giants be produced from the procreation of a mortal man and mortal woman?” which is a terribly reply since it’s based on not agreeing with the English Bibles’ usage of giants.
Another counter is, “Where did demons come from?” which is more on point and yet, not a per his reliance on late-dated folklore.
And, “Who are the angels Jude and Peter speak of? If they are the angels who fell with Satan and are now demons, why did some of them get imprisoned while others are left roaming free on the earth as ethereal, unclean spirits?” indeed, Jude and 2 Peter 2 refers to the Angels and not only some of the Angels.
Isaac Hunter closes by referring us to, “Michael Heiser’s books and various academic articles” yet, Dr. Heiser was credentialed and experienced but not infallible, his Nephilology wasn’t biblical, and he tended to create more problems than he solved—search online for these articles for examples:

Review of Amy Richter and Michael Heiser on four Enochian Watcher related women in Jesus’ genealogy

And:

Rebuttal to Dr. Michael Heiser’s “All I Want for Christmas is Another Flawed Nephilim Rebuttal”

I also included him in my book, The Scholarly Academic Nephilim and Giants: What do Scholarly Academics Say About Nephilim Giants?

He ends with, “I’m much more interested in” issues such as, “Are angels an amalgam of distinct creative events (races of beings) or are they of one lot, with the same DNA and essense?…There cherubim and seriphim; will there also be humaphim added to the mix?”

By definition, as per the law of identity, Angels are Angels and if anything the, “amalgam” would be that they look like human males.

As for, “cherubim and seriphim” (typically Seraphim) they are two different categories of being.

Humans, Angels, Cherubim, and Seraphim have certain things in common but it’s only Angels who produced half-Angel and half-human beings since they’re most like us.

See my various books here.

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If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

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Banner Church on Giants, Fallen Angels, and the Nephilim: The Bible’s Darkest Mystery

Banner Church posted a video of one of their Sunday services titled Giants, Fallen Angels, and the Nephilim: The Bible’s Darkest Mystery.

This is the comment I posted:

This was preached by a pastor during a service at a church service to Christians?

God help us!

The pastor noted, “So they were on the earth in the days of Noah and afterwards: after what? When Israel comes into the promised land. So, Genesis says they were on the earth. And then when we begin to read scripture, we see they were actually on the earth again when Israel comes into the promised land.”

So to the question, “afterwards: after what?” the pastor’s answer is, “When Israel comes into the promised land.”

But what did God inspire as the answer to “after what”?

“Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.”

But when was that? Well, v 1 told us, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives.”

So, the pastor is pointing us forward in time but God pointed us backward.

So it was, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them” and continuing on, ending at the flood since, obviously, Nephilim didn’t make it past the flood since God didn’t fail, didn’t miss a loophole, the flood wasn’t much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

But the pastor ignored that theological point and jumps to one single sentence from Numbers 13, “Moses…sends a spy into the land and they come back and they say” and quotes the first report in that chapter, the one that’s accepted as is.

But he then waters down the text and generalizes by mashing two reports into one (and he’s very loosely paraphrasing), “the promised land, the land that God promised to Abraham when He made a covenant with him, that land is amazing. God had a great promise. He made a, He gave us a great promise. He said, ‘There’s a really big problem. There are giants there. where God has placed a promise, there are now giants who live there.”

He went from, “a” singular spy to the plural, “they” and then back to the singular, “He” but that may just be sloppy grammar due to talking fast (and fast-talking).

So, the first report doesn’t say anything about, “There are giants there” and some key questions are: What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s the pastor’s usage? Do those two usages agree?

He then actually quotes the first report, “they told him, these are the

spies who came out” and that reliable report specifies, “we saw the descendants of Anak…Amalekites…Hittites…Jebusites…Amorites…and the Canaanites” so, no mention of Nephilim.

So that was, “they” and in summary, the pastor says, “he,” whoever that is, “said, ‘We can’t go in’” but that refers to the 10 unreliable spies whom God rebuked.

He then quotes the narrator, “they” those 10 (since Caleb and Joshua sided together with God) “brought the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they’d spied out, saying” with the key portion being, “we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim. And we seem to ourselves like grasshoppers.”

For some odd reason, he seems to have missed that the, “bad report” was bad because it consists of five mere assertions unbacked by even one other single sentence in the whole Bible.

He also oddly didn’t note that the LXX doesn’t even mention Anakim in that verse.

The pastor then comments, “Nephilim are before, but they’re also after. They go into the land. God has promised this promised them this land. But when they go to get there, these descendants of demonic rebellion are occupying the land and they are giants.”

So, he bypassed the whole point of the narrative which is that the 10 just made up a logically, bio-logically, and theo-logically impossible tall-tale.

Also, it wasn’t a, “demonic rebellion” but an Angelic one.

Note that the, “bad report” also embellished the original and reliable one since it artificially inserts Nephilim into who was seen in the land—as if the first report would, oopsy, miss Nephilim who were supposedly THE MOST awe inspiring beings on the planet.

Based on strictly non-LXX versions, he also concludes, “Says they’re the sons of Anak. Also that’s called Anakim because, ‘im’ is, ‘son of.’”

He doesn’t know that the, “im” ending on Hebrew words makes them male plural, it has nothing to do with, “son of.”

He continued, “They’re also called the Rephites or the Repaim. There’s lots of names for the same people because you have different languages, right?” no, not right: Rephaim were the tribe, Anakim (and Emmim) were like clans of that tribe.

Interestingly, he notes, “When Moses in Deuteronomy when they’re coming into the land, he recalls their journey and he begins to point out these different places” and when Moses related that event in Deut 1, he mentions Anakim but doesn’t say a single word about Nephilim—again, ignoring the supposedly THE MOST awe inspiring beings on the planet.

He was practical, he was concerned about the real danger on the ground, such as Anakim, and not about some incoherently impossible tall-tale.

Eventually, he gets to the point of stating, “Rephites that I’ve been

talking about, these Nephilim” and by doing that, he can then arbitrarily slap the term, “Nephilim” on anyone he doesn’t like.

So, he committed a category error and what I term expandio ad absurdum based on linguistics errors (and many other fallacies besides).

He took one single utterly unreliable sentence (see my post, “Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal”) exclusively from non-LXX versions of one unreliable report by unreliable guys whom God rebuked which refers only to the clan of Anakim, he then took it upon himself to expand that to the entire Rephaim tribe and so that allows him to play the name-swap game of turning only some Rephaim into all Rephaim—and beyond since he just waters everything down and so he mashes any and all tribes he doesn’t like into the, “Nephilim” category.

Thus, even just these few points show that the pastor committed hermeneutical fallacies, linguistics fallacies, historical fallacies, theological fallacies, cultural fallacies, etc.

And, again, these amount to that the implication that God failed, missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc., etc., etc.

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.

Bart Ehrman’s site on Nephilim: Uncovering the Giants of Genesis 6

I noted, “Bart Ehrman’s site…” since the article undergoing review was authored by Joshua Schachterle, Ph.D (“in New Testament and Early Christianity”), “Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this article belong to the author and do not necessarily match my own. – Dr. Bart D. Ehrman.”

So we can blame Schachterle for Nephilim: Uncovering the Giants of Genesis 6 ;o)

He answers, “What Are the Nephilim?” thusly:

The Hebrew word Nephilim comes from the root neh-peh-le which means “to fall.” The word can therefore be translated literally as “the fallen ones.”

In Fall of the Angels, Hebrew Bible scholar Ronald Hendel notes that the word Nephilim is a passive construction, literally meaning “the ones who have fallen.”

He follows that with:

Despite this meaning, most ancient translations from Hebrew, including the Septuagint (the ancient Greek version of the Hebrew Bible), the Latin Vulgate, and the Samaritan Pentateuch (a version of the Pentateuch written in Samaritan Aramaic), have simply called the Nephilim “giants.”

It’s rather odd to state that a Greek version, Latin version, and Samaritan Aramaic version, “called the Nephilim ‘giants’” since giants isn’t a Greek nor Latin nor Samaritan Aramaic word.

The Septuagint/LXX has γίγαντες, “gigantes” which means, “earth-born” as in born of the Greek false goddess Gaia (which is why some manuscripts simplify it to, “gigas”).

The Latin uses the very same transliteration of the Greek, “gigantes.”

The Samaritan Aramaic has the Nephilim as just that, ha Nephilim: והנפלים

For more linguistics details, see my book Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010.

Yet, let’s just go with, “called the Nephilim ‘giants’” well, that merely begs these key questions: What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s Schachterle usage? Do those two usages agree?

He quotes the Gen 6 affair, as I term it, thusly:

When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair, and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

He notes, “It is a curious, fragmentary, and ambiguous reference that, at first glance, doesn’t seem to fit with the story that follows…it doesn’t seem to have much to do with the ‘wickedness of humans’ that follows in verse 5 and sets the stage for the Great Flood” and yet, it’s positioned as its premise.

He notes, “Clearly, this passage needs some unpacking” since it is extremely succinct whilst packing a lot of references into a few sentences.

Schachterle notes of the sons of God:

…long-standing traditions in Judaism and the Christian church have claimed that these were fallen angels in league with Satan, John Drummond states that the original audience for this passage would have believed them to be members of the divine council over which God presided. This was a common assumption among ancient Near Eastern cultures, and is found in several instances in the Bible, such as this passage from Psalm 82:1-2:

God has taken his place in the divine council;

in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

“How long will you judge unjustly

and show partiality to the wicked?”

In short, indeed, the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the “Angel view” as I proved in my book, On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.

Juxtaposing the long-standing tradition and Drummond seems like a false dichotomy since the these, “members of the divine council” were Angels (aka, “lesser heavenly beings” as he has them) who fell: in the Psalm, God notes that they will, “Die like men.”

Oddly, after telling us of, “long-standing traditions” again, starting in BC days, “in Judaism…claimed that these were fallen angels” he followed that up with, “unlike the ancient Greeks, Israelites seem less comfortable with the notion of semi-divine beings” even though they held to that long-standing tradition.

He notes, “other references to the Nephilim are scanty at best” indeed, scant enough that there aren’t other, plural, “references” but only one.

He notes:

In this passage [Numbers 13:33], the Israelites have arrived at Canaan, the Promised Land. Before attempting to conquer the current inhabitants, Moses sends in spies to do some reconnaissance. While two spies, Joshua and Caleb, suggest going in and conquering the land immediately, the other 10 spies do not agree:

Then the men who had gone up with him said, “We are not able to go up against this people, for they are stronger than we.”

So they brought to the Israelites an unfavorable report of the land that they had spied out, saying, “The land that we have gone through as spies is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great size. There we saw the Nephilim (the Anakites come from the Nephilim), and to ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”

He adds, “This is the first explicit reference to the Nephilim as giants, since the size of the Nephilim was not referred to in the Genesis passage.”

Thus, we got the answer to his usage: by giants he’s referring to size—something generically vague about subjective height of some unspecified level above the parochial average.

This means that his usage disagrees with the English Bibles’ usage since the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word giants in English Bibles is that it merely renders (doesn’t even translate) Nephilim in 2 verses or Repha/im in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.

In fact, the dirty little secret is that since we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim then their height is a non-issue and that alone debunks 99% of un-biblical Nephilology—the modern branch of which is just un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales.

That’s because the report was unfavorable in consisting of five mere assertions that are unbacked by even one single other sentence in the whole Bible—see my post Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal.

The, “they” who, “brought to the Israelites an unfavorable report” were 10 unreliable guys whom presented an unreliable report and were rebuked by God. They contradicted Moses, Caleb, Joshua, God, and the rest of the whole Bible.

Schachterle asks, “who were these Anakites, who seem to be offspring of the Nephilim in this passage?” simple, they weren’t offspring of the Nephilim: that’s logically, bio-logically, and theo-logically impossible.

Also, he’s basing the question on non-LXX versions since that version’s version of that sentence doesn’t mention Anakim.

He notes, “It’s unclear from the passage if the Anakites were truly believed to be the offspring of the Nephilim”: it’s unclear if they asserted that or if it’s a gloss in latter manuscript families such as the Masoretic. And one issue is what was believed vs. what was reality: Anakim were like a tribe of the Rephaim tribe (Deut 2) and Nephilim were strictly pre-flood hybrids, Rephaim were strictly post-flood humans, and there’s zero correlation between them.

Schachterle wrote, “…if the Anakites were truly believed to be the offspring of the Nephilim and, thus, giants” which biblically contextually reads as, “…if the Anakites were truly believed to be the offspring of the Nephilim and, thus, Rephaim” which makes no logical, bio-logical, nor theo-logical sense.

But he means, “…if the Anakites were truly believed to be the offspring of the Nephilim and, thus, something generically vague about subjective height of some unspecified level above the parochial average.” Well, what we’re reliably told about them is that, on average, Rephaim and thus Anakim were, “tall” (Deut 2) which is just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as giants and is subjective to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days.

He continued that thought with, “…or if the fearful spies were merely not brave enough to face them in battle and used hyperbolic statements to discourage Moses from attacking them.” Yes but there’s more to it than that. Num chap 13 contains two post-reconnoitering reports and the first, the reliable one, the one that’s accepted as is lists whom they really did see, “we saw the descendants of Anak there. The Amalekites…The Hittites, the Jebusites, and the Amorites…And the Canaanites” (no mention of Nephilim).

Thus, it was a case of, “the fearful spies were merely not brave enough to face Anakim and Amalekites and Hittites and Jebusites and Amorites and Canaanites in battle and used hyperbolic statements to discourage Moses from attacking them” by artificially inserting Nephilim into the mix by embellishing the original/reliable/as is report—they literally took it up a notch via an fear-mongering, scare-tactic, “Don’t go in the woods!!!” style of tall-tale.

Schachterle continued with:

Another group often identified with the Nephilim in the Hebrew Bible are the Rephaim, who are also said to be giants. According to Jonathan Yogev, there is a possible reference to the Rephaim as divine (or believing themselves to be divine) in Ezekiel 28:2:

Because your heart is proud

and you have said, “I am a god;

I sit in the seat of the gods,

in the heart of the seas,”

yet you are but a mortal and no god,

though you compare your mind

with the mind of a god.

In Hebrew, the word Rephaim simply means “the dead.” This makes their references in the Hebrew Bible puzzling to say the least. Like the Anakites, they are said to be one of the peoples conquered by the Israelites in Canaan. However, later references seem to characterize them as mere representations of those who have died:

The dead will not live, the Rephaim will not rise, you punished them and brought them to ruin; you wiped out all memory of them.

Isaiah 26:14

This is actually a linguistics issue and there is no other group ever identified with the Nephilim—not even Anakim, reliably, as we have seen.
Note that biblically contextually, “Rephaim, who are also said to be giants” means, “Rephaim, who are also said to be Rephaim.” Yet, we know he mistakenly means, “Rephaim, who are also said to be generically vague about subjective height of some unspecified level above the parochial average” so that they were subjectively taller than 5.0-5.3ft.

The linguistics issue is that some compound the root rapha with the Rephaim people group. Rapha is a rather complex root which ranges in meaning from dead to healing. It is must like unto that the root naphal is used for fallen and is applied to the Nephilim. Yet, naphal isn’t necessarily a reference to the Nephilim people group nor is rapha necessarily a reference to the Rephaim people group.

Thus, as noted, Ezekiel 28:2 is referring to “the dead” thus, in this case, it’s not, “However” but consistent that, “later references” also, “seem to characterize them as mere representations of those who have died.”

So that Isaiah 26:14 is, “The dead will not live, the dead will not rise…”

Or, perhaps in some cases we’re being told that the rapha Rephaim are in big trouble.

Schachterle notes, “it’s not clear in the Bible whether the Israelites truly equated the Nephilim and the Rephaim” yet, it is: there’s no such indication even reading into root words.

As for, “by the 3rd century BCE, Drummond notes that pseudepigraphical books such as the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees clearly believed that the Nephilim were the ghastly giant offspring not of gods but of fallen angels and human women” sure, that was a time of notoriously wild historical-fiction, myth-making, folklore, speculation, tall-tale telling, etc., etc., etc., “a kind of fan fiction” as he puts it: see my article How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory and book The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts.

He continues:

The last time a form of the word Nephilim comes up in the Hebrew Bible is in Ezekiel 32:27. However, in this later context, it seems to mean something different:

And they do not lie with the fallen [Hebrew: nō·p̄ə·lîm] warriors of long ago who went down to Sheol with their weapons of war, whose swords were laid under their heads and whose shields are upon their bones; for the terror of the warriors was in the land of the living.

In this case, the word Nephilim merely refers to those fallen in battle, not those fallen in a moral or divine sense.

This is much like the Ezekiel 28:2 issue, it’s about the naphal gibborim (fallen mighty ones).

He also notes:

According to Megan Sauter, the Book of Enoch reimagined the role of the Nephilim for generations of Jews. In it, we meet a group of beings known as the Watchers, fallen angels who had children with human women and produced giant offspring— the Nephilim. How tall were the Nephilim? The Book of Enoch says they were 300 cubits tall. Since a cubit was about 18 inches, this would put their height at 450 feet, a monstrous height indeed!

1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah, see my book, In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.

“300 cubits tall” is more of a fallback position for those who are shocked or embarrassed that the text actually asserts that they were 3,000 ells tall: which is MILES tall—great folklore but poor reality.

See my various books here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby.

If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out.

Here is my donate/paypal page.

You can comment here and/or on my Twitter/X page, on my Facebook page, or any of my other social network sites all which are available here.