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Going too far & not far enough on the issue of the Genesis 6 Nephilim

I find myself in an interesting situation playing monkey, as it were, between two Christian brothers. On the issue of the Genesis 6 Nephilim one is going too far and the other not far enough.

Now for reasons elucidated within my section on the Nephilim – Giants section, I hold that the Genesis 6 affair, as I like to term it, involved the Sons of God Angels and human daughters of men.

Now, the one Christian takes it too far due to, form what I could tell, relying much too much on certain people who are popular within the circles of speakers, teachers, lecturers, authors, etc. who delve into issue relating to the Nephilim, giants, “aliens,” Christian UFOlogy, etc., etc., etc.

The issue is that these fields of research are peppered if not saturated with misinformation. This may be due to purposeful deception, seeking popularity, exaggerations, lazy “research,” honest mistakes—who knows?

For example, this fellow noted that the “Book of Enoch” is not in the biblical canon and followed up with words to the effect but isn’t it? He noted that it is in a couple of Jewish canons. I helped him out and noted that it is in the Ethiopian Church’s canon and as soon as he nodded in agreement I stated the fact that the Ethiopic canon also contains other books that he would not think belong therein.
You see, for their love of the “Book of Enoch”—actually one of the books (plural) of Enoch, one of the versions of one of the books of Enoch, one of the sections of one of the versions of one of the books of Enoch—some Christians are willing to rip the canon wide open. Of course, there is a long line of people standing behind him with their favored books which they claim belong in the canon. For details on this, see my Book of Enoch section.

As an example of a simple case of a very simple to identify error within the context of Nephilim and giants, see Open note to L.A. Marzulli on the Ralph Glidden Catalina Island giant.

In short, I agree with this brother on the issue of Angels being involved in the Genesis 6 affair and other related issues but am attempting to up his game and get serious about follow up fact checking.

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Now, on the other hand, the other brother does not even believe that the Genesis 6 affair involved Angels. He wrote this to me, “I don’t believe that angels had sex with humans.”

I replied, “On the issue of Angels with humans: Peter and Jude (and the majority of early Jewish and Christian commentators) disagree with you.”

He then noted and asked:

If Peter and Jude disagree with me, then show me where they say that fallen angels and humans had sex and made kids. Show me anywhere in the Bible. The idea of angels and humans having sex is just an interpretation of what is in their passages. It is not specifically stated as you are implying.

Is the majority always right? Do the majority of Jewish scholars believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

Does the Bible say that Satan and his angels can pro-create?

To date, the discussion rests at my reply which was as follows:

We both know that the majority is not always right: that “the majority of early Jewish and Christian commentators” interpreted Genesis 6 as relating to angels is merely pointing out the historical context of the interpretation of that text, it was originally, in large, understood as angelic by both camps. So, no, the majority of Jewish scholars do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah but the majority of Christians scholars do—at least, I would hope so, capiche?

The idea of Peter and Jude as not stating that angels and humans have sex is just an interpretation of what is in their passages. It is not specifically stated as you are implying.

The Bible does not say that Satan can pro-create and he is not an angel but is a cherub. Thus, this does not pertain to him and the Bible does not say that he was involved in the Genesis 6 affair.

The Bible says that angels can pro-create via Genesis 6 and the 2 Peter and Jude texts.

Okay, here they are—in the KJV—only ;o)–and with my noted in brackets: [FYI this brother is not a KJV only proponent, this is just an inside joke betwixt us]

2 Peter 2,

“God spared not the Angels that sinned [thus far we know that some Angels sinned], but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly [Peter gave us the historical context so he is identifying when the Angels sinned and it was around the time of Noah: Genesis 6 begins with the Sons of God and moves or to Noah and the deluge]; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness [Peter is also specifying the Angels’ sin by making reference to the sin of Sodom and Gomorrha which he specifies as being, in part, “flesh in the lust of uncleanness” and you know what is meant by flesh and lust], and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.”

Jude 6-8,

“And the Angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [seems to mean that they abandoned heaven in a selfwilled (as Peter put it) manner unlike when God sends them on errands], he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities [Jude directly ties Angels which kept not their first estate with Sodom and Gomorrha within the context of “fornication, and going after strange flesh” and they who “defile the flesh”].”

They are both referring to Angels, one directs us to the historical context of Noah’s time and both liken the Angels’ sin to sexual acts committed by citizens of Sodom and Gomorrha.

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