September 2016 – Page 4 – TrueFreeThinker

Herein we continued, from part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, a series regarding paranormal entities in text generally termed the Apocrypha, Deutero Canonical, Pseudepigrapha, Gnostic Texts, etc. (see my article on the Apocrypha here). The quotations are of those sections within the text that refer to Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Devil, Satan, demons, serpent and dragon. The point is not to elucidate these references but to provide relevant partial quotations and citations.

Angels in the apocryphal texts the Acts of John, Paul & Andrew.

Acts of John – 150-200 AD
76 John asked of him [Callimachus] about his entry into the sepulcher…And he answered him…I saw a beautiful youth covering her with his mantle, and from his eyes sparks of light came forth unto her eyes…I recognize that he was an Angel of God.

104 God unchangeable, God invincible, God higher than all authority and all power, and elder and mightier than all Angels and creatures that are named, and all aeons.

114 And as I come unto thee, let the fire go backward, let the darkness be overcome, let the gulf be without strength, let the furnace die out, let Gehenna be quenched. Let Angels follow, let devils fear, let rulers be broken, Iet powers fall; let the places of the right hand stand fast, let them of the left hand not remain. Let the devil be muzzled, let Satan be derided, let his wrath be burned out, let his madness be stilled, let his vengeance be ashamed, let his assault be in pain, let his children be smitten and all his roots plucked up.

XIV Then the blessed John gathered together the fragments of the gems, and holding them in his hands, lifted up his eyes to heaven and said: Lord Jesus Christ…recover thou them, Lord, now by the hands of thine Angels, that by their value the work of mercy may be fulfilled [almsgiving was aforementioned].

XVII While the apostle was thus speaking, behold there was brought to him by his mother, who was a widow, a young man who thirty days before had first married a wife. And the people which were waiting upon the burial came with the widowed mother and cast themselves at the apostle’s feet all together with groans, weeping, and mourning, and besought him that in the name of his God, as he had done with Drusiana, so he would raise up this young man also…[the] youth Stacteus, who for love of thy flesh hast quickly lost thy soul…arose and worshipped the apostle, and began to reproach his disciples, saying: I beheld your Angels weeping, and the Angels of Satan rejoicing at your overthrow. For now in a little time ye have lost the kingdom that was prepared for you, and the dwelling places builded of shining stones, full of joy, of feasting and delights, full of everlasting life and eternal light: and have gotten yourselves places of darkness, full of dragons, of roaring flames, of torments, and punishments unsurpassable, of pains and anguish, fear and horrible trembling.

Acts of Paul – 150-200 AD
3 And he saw Paul coming, a man little of stature, thin-haired upon the head, crooked in the legs, of good state of body, with eyebrows joining, and nose somewhat hooked, full of grace: for sometimes he appeared like a man, and sometimes he had the face of an Angel.

5 Blessed are they that have the fear of God, for they shall become Angels of God.

6 Blessed are they that for love of God have departed from the fashion of this world, for they shall judge Angels, and shall be blessed at the right hand of the Father.

M.R. James’ The Apocryphal New Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1924 AD) contains The Acts of Paul which notes, “Copt., p. 38 of the MS,” section III of which states:
But an Angel of the Lord had said unto him in the night: Paul, thou hast to-day a great conflict against thy body, but God, the Father of his Son Jesus Christ, will protect thee.

M.R. James also notes “The page of the Coptic MS. on which the correspondence begins is fragmentary at the beginning” states:
I:14-15 Christ came not down (is not come, Copt.) in the flesh, neither was born of Mary, and that the world is not of God, but of the Angels.

III:5 …our Lord Jesus Christ was born of Mary WHICH IS of the seed of David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, the Holy Ghost being sent forth from heaven from the Father unto her BY THE ANGEL GABRIEL.

M.R. James also notes, “This I found in an old book, entitled the third to the Corinthians, though it is not in the Canon” and includes a section titled VIII Nicephorus which notes:
…by God’s power, with Angels to escort them and enlighten the gloom of night.

Acts of Andrew – 150-200 AD
9 A bright Angel touched their swords and they all fell down, and Andrew and his company passed by while they worshipped him. And the Angel departed in a great light.

10 At Perinthus he found a ship going to Macedonia, and an Angel told him to go on board. As he preached the captain and the rest heard and were converted, and Andrew glorified God for making himself known on the sea.

11 The young people saw Andrew’s face like that of an Angel.

18 An Angel was seen to descend and strengthen the apostle.

23 She cried to God for help and an Angel came, and the youth fell dead. After that, she raised him, and all the city ran to the sight.

28 The woman said [to “An old man, Nicolaus”]: “Depart, old man, depart: thou art an Angel of God, touch me not nor approach me, for I see in thee a great mystery.”

38 There also is it written, that when this same Maximilla and Iphidamia were gone together to hear the apostle Andrew, a beautiful child, who, Leucius would have us understand, was either God or at least an Angel.

In the next segment, we will consider the Book of Thomas the Contender and the Apocalypse of Paul.

Open note to L.A. Marzulli on the Ralph Glidden Catalina Island giant

Note: this is an update version of the original article and may be update again based on continued research that I am conducing on this specific issue. Also, L.A. Marzulli was kind enough to offer me a bit of important info of which I was not aware when I first posted it.

I am posting this open note to L.A. Marzulli on the Ralph Glidden Catalina Island giant because research into the issue of the Nephilim (and all that comes with such as the related issue of giants, UFOs, “aliens,” high tech, etc.) is considered fringe by both secular culture and Christian culture (or, pop-Churchianity).
Thus, it is all the more important that those of us who research with such issues, to whatever degree, be as accurate as possible.

The official website for The Catalina Chamber note that following the 1923 AD discovery or King Tutankhamen’s Egyptian tomb styled archeologist Ralph Glidden, “spun fantastic tales of his research on Santa Catalina: he had found evidence of a race of giants on the island; he discovered evidence of ‘white Indians’; he found the fabled lost Temple of the Sun God that was bigger in scope than Stonehenge.” They also note that “planned to crown” his makeshift museum “with a massive 16-foot skull” although we are not told to what the skull pertained (human or animal) and are only told of his plans and not about the actual skull.

The LA Times reported that Glidden claimed that he found “the skeleton of a man, 7 feet 8 inches tall, with a spear blade embedded in his left side. Glidden claimed it was evidence of a prehistoric race of giant fair-skinned, blue-eyed Native Americans” and yet, “No photographs of his unearthing of those remains are in the discovered boxes” of his archives in the Catalina Island Museum (Louis Sahagun, “Bones flesh out an island’s history,” April 02, 2012 AD).

Based on calculations based on a photograph that was found, Marzulli estimates that at least one skeleton was more than 8 and 9 feet tall. These calculations are said to have been verified by four people’s analysis.

Well, no one seems to know what happened to the skeletons themselves which means that the actual physical evidence is gone—and, by the way, claiming that the Smithsonian hid them away in their Indiana Jones style warehouse is not evidence.

Photo found within the Catalina Island Museum’s Glidden archive boxes

Marzulli’s methodology was to reproduce the photo above, cut Glidden and the skeleton out of it and rotate their respective physical frames so as to put them both into an upright posture which would result in being able to compare their heights as Glidden’s height is known to be 5 ft. 8 in. The calculations result in the skeleton being circa 8 ft. 9 in. tall.

Let us jump to the bottom line which is that the skeleton is circa 8 ft. 9 in. tall which is where my initial article note on this issue came into play. Recall that four unnamed people are said to have analyzed the photograph and the implication is that they approved. However, we are also not told if they considered the photo in terms of authenticity or if they considered it with regards to Marzulli’s methodology.

My interest is to point out that which appears to be an unknown error which I will hereinafter make known for the sake of accuracy in reporting on such issues.

. Photographs are 2 dimensional representations of a 3 dimensional reality. It is a 1) height and 2) width representation of 1) height, 2) width and 3) depth.

A height a width photo is a mere line when turned on its side.

Thus, in real 3-D life, there is a certain amount of distance between where Ralph is standing and
where the skeleton was found (since he is standing behind, away, from it and not directly over it).

The side turned photograph represented by the line (L) is only as wide as the paper upon which it is printed which is a negligible depth and also not relevant to what the 3-D world it represents looked like.
The 3-D world had Ralph, a certain amount of distance (R), and then skeleton.

On his website, Marzulli’s notes that the distance from Glidden to the skeleton is 7 ft.
My initial conclusion is that the unknown error is that this difference in distance from Ralph to the skeleton is that this proximity differential means that the skeleton looks bigger than Ralph because it is closer to the viewer, to the camera: it is bigger in the photo due to this form of an optical illusion.

I had initially concluded that putting Ralph and the skeleton into the upright posture failed for a size comparison due to fact that the skeleton is closer than Glidden and therefore, their heights cannot be differentiated accurately.
I reasoned that if Ralph was standing directly over the skeleton the distance between then would be one foot of less and that would result in the ability to reckon their height differences based on placing them into a more upright posture.

I based the original article on a lecture I saw Marzulli present on a DVD and the issue of taking the distance into consideration was not mentioned. Also, from looking at the photo and the analysis it appears that the distance was not taken into consideration. However, Marzulli notes that the four people who analyzed the photo did, indeed, take the distance between Glidden and the skeleton into consideration, include this in their calculations and this is that which concluded in the circa 8.9 height.
I am currently seeking to determine if such details are within his relevant book which mentions this and hope to follow up with the four personages who conducted the analysis.

Finally, as aforementioned, this has been an exercise in assisting those of us involved, to whatever degree, in researching issues considered fringe to be all the more vigilant and discerning about how we conduct our research and how we report it and this goes for me just as much for myself as I am absolutely open to criticism and correction.

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On the Treatment of Images, part II of II

This essay is parsed thusly:

Hyper Exaltation of Images The Biblical Point of View Positive Commandments, Make Images

Negative Commandments, Do not Worship Images

Hyper Exaltation of Images:

marycoronation-6729177

maryandpriestwithbaby28129-8906311 maryandpriestwithbaby28229-8863958

maryandpopejohnpaul-6541948

maryandjesus28kneeling29-9312675

st-benedict28129-6833793

In case it is hard to read, this medal is sold with the following instructions:

Did you know that…your St. Benedict Medal is a powerful weapon against the devil. It is the Catholic Church’s most highly indulgenced medal! Once the special blessing is given by a priest, the medal will have amazing power over evil! It will protect you from devils, storms, plagues and poisons. But remember-you must first call upon the intercession of St. Benedict before using the medal. Today’s world is full of evil.
Year after year, you will enjoy the peace of mind that comes from owning a medal of St. Benedict. It will help you overcome the power of the devil. So remember this medal when looking for the perfect gift for friends and family in need. Your personal St. Benedict Medal comes with an information sheet about St. Benedict and his times. It explains the medal’s origin, and the meaning of its symbols and lettering…

This reads exactly like a manual on witchcraft or any pagan usage of talismans for the purpose of magic or occult practices. The medal will not work unless the witchdoctor blesses it. Also, do not call on Jesus in a time of need, but on a saint and his magic medal. Plus, you should encourage your friends and family to do likewise. Notice that the group selling this talisman is called America Needs Fatima, apparently we do not need Jesus.

st-benedict28229-6851154

Expel the devil with your Saint Benedict medal.” The symbols, acrostics and Latin are then explained as stating, “The Cross of the Holy Father Benedict…The Holy Cross be my Light and not the dragon be my guide…Begone Satan! Suggest not vain things to me!…Evil is the cup thou offerest! Drink thou thine own poison!…Peace.”

fatima-6241897

The above is a corruption of a bumper sticker that reads “No Jesus, No Peace-Know Jesus, Know Peace” The reason that Jesus has been ignored is that, in direct violation of biblical doctrine, groups that exalt Mary believe that it is she who will bring world peace.

The Biblical Point of View:
In this section I seek to demonstrate that, Biblically speaking, simply making an image is not a problem. However, the image must be an accurate depiction and must not be worshipped or served.

Firstly, consider that God Himself made images:

Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them….Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man (Genesis 1:26-27, 9:6).

Incidentally, I have written an essay on The Creation of Adam.

thecreationofadam-9064474

Positive Commandments, Make Images: God commanded:

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them….You are not to make with me gods of silver, nor are you to make gods of gold for yourselves” (Exodus 20:4-5, 23 and Deuteronomy 5:8-9).

goldencalf-7429340

Clearly, the full thought behind the statement is not simply do not ever make any images but rather, do not make gods, do not worship images.
Many times God commanded His people to make images. God commands Moses to make images of cherubim who are angelic beings in heaven above. God also commanded the making of images of pomegranates, almonds, flowers and a serpent, which are things on the earth.

Regarding the Ark of the Covenant God commands:

make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover….
Then he made two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. He made one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; at the two ends he made them of one piece with the cover. The cherubim had their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim faced each other, looking toward the cover (Exodus 25:18-20, 37:7-9).

arkofthecovenant-2272479

Regarding the tabernacle,

Make the tabernacle…with cherubim worked into them by a skilled craftsman…Make a curtain…with cherubim worked into it by a skilled craftsman” (Exodus 26:1, 31, 36:8, 35).

tabernacle-3058881
Regarding Aaron’s priestly apparel:

Make pomegranates of blue, purple and scarlet yarn around the hem of the robe, with gold bells between them. The gold bells and the pomegranates are to alternate around the hem of the robe. Aaron must wear it when he ministers….
They made pomegranates of blue, purple and scarlet yarn and finely twisted linen around the hem of the robe. And they made bells of pure gold and attached them around the hem between the pomegranates. The bells and pomegranates alternated around the hem of the robe to be worn for ministering, as the LORD commanded Moses” (Exodus 28:33-35, 39:24-26).

aaron-highpriest-5253664
Regarding the menorah,

Three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms were on one branch, three on the next branch and the same for all six branches extending from the lampstand. And on the lampstand were four cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms (Exodus 37:19-20).

menorah-2235822

When God gave David specific instructions for the Temple that Solomon would build He again commanded that images be made. In this case of cherubim, from heaven above and oxen, lions, lilies, palm trees and pomegranates, things on the earth:

He made pomegranates in two rows encircling each network to decorate the capitals on top of the pillars. He did the same for each capital. The capitals on top of the pillars in the portico were in the shape of lilies, four cubits high. On the capitals of both pillars, above the bowl-shaped part next to the network, were the two hundred pomegranates in rows all around….The capitals on top were in the shape of lilies. And so the work on the pillars was completed (1st Kings 7:18-20, 22).

templeofsolomon-2949599

templeofsolomonpillar-3763743

Regarding the sea cast of metal we learn,

The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths (see 1st Kings 7:25-26; 2nd Chronicles 4:5).

On the panels between the uprights were lions, bulls and cherubim-and on the uprights as well. Above and below the lions and bulls were wreaths of hammered work….He engraved cherubim, lions and palm trees on the surfaces of the supports and on the panels, in every available space, with wreaths all around (1st Kings 7:29, 36).

In the inner sanctuary he made a pair of cherubim of olive wood…He placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple, with their wings spread out…On the walls all around the temple, in both the inner and outer rooms, he carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers….He made the curtain of blue, purple and crimson yarn and fine linen, with cherubim worked into it….The priests then brought the ark of the LORD’s covenant to its place in the inner sanctuary of the temple, the Most Holy Place, and put it beneath the wings of the cherubim. The cherubim spread their wings over the place of the ark and covered the ark and its carrying poles” (1st Kings 6:23-29; 2nd Chronicles 3:14, 5:7-8).

He made interwoven chains and put them on top of the pillars. He also made a hundred pomegranates and attached them to the chains….the four hundred pomegranates for the two sets of network (two rows of pomegranates for each network, decorating the bowl-shaped capitals on top of the pillars) (2nd Chronicles 3:16, 4:13).

Negative Commandments, Do not Worship Images:
The negative commandments we find regarding images are the ones against bowing down, serving or worshipping them. Possibly the clearest explanation of this point in the scripture is found in a commandment God gave to Moses and its eventual corruption.

The LORD said to Moses, ‘Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.’ So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived” (Numbers 21:8-9 also see John 3:14-15).

Years later we find out what the Israelites ended up doing with the serpent Moses made,

in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign…He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan (2nd Kings 18:1, 4).

nehushtan-2311719

Burned incense means that they were worshipping it as an idol. They were worshipping the image and so Hezekiah names it, Nehushtan which means “a thing of brass” to show how ridiculous they were to worship a man made sculpture. The image was not the problem, it is the worship of it that is the breaking of God’s commandment.

‹ On the Treatment of Images, part I of II up

Origin of Watchers –apkallu role reversal

We continue considering a paper written by Estonia’s University of Tartu’s Amar Annus, “On the Origin of Watchers: A Comparative Study of the Antediluvian Wisdom in Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions,” Journal for the study of the Pseudepigrapha, Vol 19.4 (2010 AD): 277-320 (find my series here).

apkallus-6270884

As we shall see, the apkallu are sometimes referred to as sages and sometimes as witches. Here are some descriptions:

…the apkallus had strong ties to Mesopotamian demonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witchcraft…The apkallus themselves were sometimes viewed negatively as malicious creatures within the Mesopotamian tradition itself…apkallus are occasionally depicted as malevolent beings in Mesopotamian literature…practiced witchcraft…wicked acts…The apkallus occur at least twice in the anti-witchcraft series Maqlu as witches [such as in Maqlû III 61-76].

As a side note: the Maqlu notes that “knots are untied to undo and…counteract the witchcraft.” Knots continue to be used in witchcraft and played a role in the West Memphis Three (WM3) murder case related to Damien Echols, et al. see here.

Conversely to the manner in which they are depicted in an evil light, “The apkallus figure prominently in Mesopotamian ritual and magical texts as protective spirits…In magic [they, as sages] perform purifying and exorcising functions.” Now, “In the Babylonian Creation Epic, some of these beings are counted among evil creations of Tiamat, who are combated by Marduk” and sometimes, “monsters become positive after they are defeated in battle.”
This styled moral relativism or exchange of functions was commented upon by Anthony Green in his “Beneficent Spirits and Malevolent Demons: The Iconography of Good and Evil in Ancient Assyria and Babylonia,” Visible Religion: Annual for Religious Iconography, 1984, 3: 80-105 wherein he notes:

…we should guard against a rigid division, in considering Mesopotamian spirits, between the good and the evil: at times, perhaps, the beneficence or malevolence of individual spirits depended more upon their works at any given time than upon their essential natures. The Seven Gods might at one time be perceived as on the side of good, at another as deadly evil.

Noting such beings being conceived of as moving from a faithful to a fallen state, Amar Annus notes a few texts.
The Dead Sea Scroll 4Q530 Book of Giants (about which I wrote as Dead Sea Scrolls Book of Giants, the Bible & the Book of Enoch) contains a parable, mirrored from Ezekiel 31, with the Watchers as “‘gardeners’ (gnnyn) at work, nurturing and protecting the trees (2 ii 7).”
The apocryphal Book of Jubilees 4:15 and 5:6 notes that God originally sent Angels to earth, “in order to instruct human beings and to act (with) justice and righteousness upon earth.”

There are “ritual texts of ancient Mesopotamia” of which one is plays the main role in Frans Wiggermann’s, Mesopotamian Protective Spirits: The Ritual Texts, Text I of which is an Akkadian text according to which Sebettu, Lugalgirra, “armed ones,” Meslamtaea and Narudda “are strongly associated with netherworld, and therefore they are of half-demonic nature, capable of both good and evil.”

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Twitter: #AmarAnnus, #Watchers, #Nephilim
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How a Rabbi deceives Jews so as to combat Christians

We continue, from part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6, part 7, part 8, part 9, part 10, considering pop-research on the issue of the historical Jesus and Jesus mythicism with regards to some Atheists who have taken to the utterly radical view that Jesus never even existed. I have been considering Michael Paulkovich and Raphael Lataster and, in this case, I got into a comment section discussion within an article written by YouTube celebrity Atheist AaronRa that was simply titled “Jesus never existed” November 3, 2015 AD.

See my article Historical Jesus – two centuries worth of citations wherein I chronicled 205 texts that reference Jesus dating from pre 70 AD to 200-250 AD.

Note that Rabbi Stuart Federow’s purpose is to “give materials to Jews with which they can respond to the efforts of Christian missionaries” (FYI: sic. on everything the Rabbi wrote). This means he has a bias as, by the way and of course, do we all. Now, his bias goes beyond merely providing data but “shows the errors of Christiantiy.” Again, that is his bias and he is very honest about it. The issue is that having previously admitted to being perfectly aware that, “There is a difference simply because there are different halachic rulings from different rabbis” and that “In the article I wrote, I cited Plenty of rabbis’ Responsas that said” only “what I concluded” as in only that which we wanted to conclude whilst offering no other points of view.
The issue is that he now admits a much more serious bias which is that “For my purpose, there is only one viewpoint.” Well, if there are more than one then choosing one side and, worse yet, pretending that there is only one side, promulgating that there is only one crosses the line from bias to deception.

Note that he noted that “many rabbis write articles and make statements on this issue, without really studying all of the sources” and, apparently, he has studied all of the sources but keeps those which are inconvenient to him hidden away and only promulgates those which make his point. Now, who is worse, a Rabbi that write articles and make statements on this issue, without really studying all of the sources or one that write articles and make statements on this issue, having studying all of the sources and manipulating those sources towards deceptive ends?

In fact, he is even more honest and blunt when stating, “From my perspective this is a war for souls. And i will use whatever i can to win that fight.” I appreciate his concern for souls—apparently those of Gentiles or just those of Christian missionaries or just those of Christian missionaries who claim to be Jews are lost—yet, he is acting deceitfully even whilst condemning “Paul’s dictum to be deceitful” (which is untrue and with which I will deal below in the next segment).
This is why my reply was that which it was, as seen in the previous segment as I appealed to him thusly, in part

I foresee the problem being that a Christian missionary or layperson could easily find information which contradicts your ‘one viewpoint,’ such as just about any Jewish encyclopedia, and that could result in the Jew coming across as not very well informed. It could even lead to Jew to think that they have been misled by the Rabbis to whom they look for guidance.

The issue of there being various Rabbinic opinions is a very important one as Rabbi Stuart Federow employs this claim in order to give himself permission to choose one side. In other words, he appeals to relativism: when there is more than one opinion then simply choose the one which appeals to you. Yet, such is not the case and in the many statements I have read on “Who is a Jew?” there is generally an obvious distinction between scholarly answers versus those based on emotion, personal opinion, bias and polemics.

Let us consider the Rabbi’s statements before I prove that which I just stated as someone can make a very good arguments and still be in error.

As a starting point, he notes “the ruse that one can be a Jew and a Christian at the same time.” He states that it is a ruse because it is a “lie is made, in order to obtain converts.” His points about there not being an “organization for ex-catholics called, ‘Baptist Catholics’” or “Muslims With No Mohammad But Rather With Jesus” is faulty as he, himself, notes that in the one case he is referring to hypothetical people who “are also now Baptists” but “claim they remain catholics.” In the other case, he refers to Muslim who “becomes a christian” but claims that “they can still be muslims.”

What of a Jew in the Tanakh manner of describing who is a Jew who then becomes a Rabbinic Jew; are they still a Jew? What of a Rabbinic Jew who becomes a Reform Jew, a Reconstructionist Jew, a Buddhist Jew, an Atheist or Agnostic Jew, etc., etc., etc., are they still a Jew? Yet, the issue is not to ask an agenda driven bias deceitful Rabbi how he would answer these but to note that he is committing a category mistake.

VIDEO: Lawrence Krauss & Richard Dawkins vs. Julie Andrews

Christianity ————-

Atheism

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World Religions and Cults

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Science

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Movies & TV Shows

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Fringe-ology

(Transhumanism, Aliens/UFOs, Occult, Conspiracies) ————-

Misc. and Resources

(Nazis, Communism, Crusades, Morality / Ethics, Abortion, Rape, Homosexuality / Trans, Audio, Books, Debates, Videos, etc.)

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Troll FAIL on historical Jesus myth

At my Facebook page, someone posted a link to Premier Christianity’s 40% of People Doubt Jesus was a Real Person: Here’s How to Change Their Mind along with this quote:

“It’s relatively simple to make the case for the historicity of Jesus. Firstly, it’s what the vast majority of scholars of the ancient world believe (i.e. the ones who actually research these things, rather than the opinion of an Oxford biologist). We not only have the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ life, but his death by crucifixion is one of the most widely attested events in the ancient world, written about by contemporary historians such as Josephus and Tacitus.”

I have dealt with such topics in my section of articles about Jesus especially with Historical Jesus – Two Centuries Worth of Citations which is based on my very own research.

Well, it got a few comments from two personages that ranged from virtually incoherent to downright FAILED attempts at trolling.

The first person, to whom I will refer as Personage one wrote:

Anthropomorphic beings.
An example of something anthropomorphic are the pictures of God that depict Him with human male characteristics without indication or evidence that his appearance is that of an evolutionarily current human.

This is actually biblically accurate except that it utterly misses the point of the article which is about the historically verifiable Jesus who came in human form.
Personage two replied with:

hehe, they like to tell the truth and lie at the same time, depending on the audience. Who is created in who’s image? In the Zohar, man banished God from the garden.

This is generic enough to be meaningless as what is the “truth” and what is the “lie” is left unstated. They them make a historically HUGE jump from Genesis to the much, much, much latter Rabbinic Jewish folklore mysticism Zohar. To this, Personage one simply replied with “Spot on” and that was the end of them and Personage three chimed in with “What you say is true” and was never heard from again.

Now, the focus will be Personage two who followed up with (and note that, as per above also, they do not begin their sentences with capital letters; I am only mentioning this so it does not seem as if I am quoting them half sentence):

even only a short glimpse into the ancient mysteries will prove to any quasi-intelligent person that the historical jesus is only a political manipulation of the truth of the metaphysical Christ within all.

Now, of course, biblically there is no such thing as a “metaphysical Christ” within the context of “ancient mysteries” and certainly not a real, actual, historical, biblical Jesus “within all” but only within those who accept Him as Messiah.

I replied thusly:

Friend, you will find that if you ignore popular level claims and demand primary source material which is supposed to back your claims there either are none or they actually borrowed from Jesus as they date to after His time. Here is a short debate on the topic:

The reply to me was:

lol your argument is circular

This is a great example of that which Augustine of Hippo wrote in, “City of God,” Book 5, Chap. 26, “…it is very easy for a man to seem to himself to have answered arguments, when he has only been unwilling to be silent” which is a quote that is applicable to 99% of instances in which I deal with 99% of Atheists.
Thy wrote a follow up comment right away which reads:

seems you don’t want your mind changed mr true freethinker

Well, you can tell right away that this person is not interested in engaging in reasoned discourse and yet, I made an attempt by replying with:

“your argument is circular” is a conclusion: where is the rest of your argument? Seems you don’t want your mind changed.

That seems clear enough as they had merely made an assertion without, as it were, showing their work. They replies thusly:

thanks for further proving my point. Yes, you are right that it was a conclusion but the second part of your comment is childish and also wrong. I don’t care if my mind got changed in the process of searching for truth. In fact, it had, many times. That is not an issue. “Seems you don’t want your mind changed” was also a conclusion, because you were not at all curious when presented an alternative to your beliefs, thus proving that you are not interested in challenging them. That’s just boring. Both my comments were conclusions, as I am not interested in trying to change your mind. My initial comment was meant to spark some curiosity but still I see none, hence the conclusion. Bear in mind, though, that the opposite of curiosity is ignorance.

I bid you farewell, for I will not be replying to this any longer.

This is a troll hit and run tactic: they make baseless statements that lack reason, logic and evidence and when challenged they thump their chest and go away.

Here was my reply, the final one, as no one has replied to anything anymore:

Friend, how did I prove your point as your point is one that requires historical evidence and you have provided nothing but assertions? You are also mistaken as to why, in your estimation, I was not curious. In fact, I have been so curious on such issues that I have read about them and written about them. Thus, I knew to ask you for primary source information which you have failed to provide. If you are only interested in in spark some curiosity please place the cards on the table and do not merely imply that you have cards and put them well, somewhere but cannot find them.

And with that, you seem to scurry off in order to do this to another person and another and another and yet, at least you know that you were asked for evidence and simply failed. What a shame.

And this is why people had to wait until circa two millennia after His life, death and resurrection to even imagine making such a radical claim as that Jesus never existed as a historical person. They needed society to become nice and dumbed down to the point that people react emotionally to intellectual issue which leads to a deconstruction of history based on feelings.