To a Facebook post by The Metal Bible Podcast, a certain Andrew Nusz commented as follows in order to protect others in the comments section from the issues I was raising
don’t waste your time. This one’s like a nagging bot. Pastes the same stuff to everyone they disagree with but never has alternatives to engage the conversation. Saying it’s not a biblical doctrine without giving evidence… Guess what? I CAN GIVE EVIDENCE. Justin Martyr and Irenaeus both have stuff to say on this. But here’s one other thing. Does doctrine trump the Bible?
True Freethinker
Then it’s simple: please elucidate how the Nephilim made it past the flood, as a starting point.
Andrew Nusz
First, the Bible isn’t an exhaustive book of events, neither is Genesis 6 but has been proven what it means by extra biblical material the authors clearly interacted with as well as Peter and Jude. And yet, none of this material is IN the Bible. So trying to prove this point would be meaningless. Instead, focus on what the Bible points to and says.
In Numbers it says the Anakim were descendants of Nephilim, great and tall. Genesis 6 says the same thing. Dr Judd Burton, a professor of anthropology, and other things, plus Douglas Van Dorn show that when Israel goes against the people of Bashan, associated with Mount Hermon. There’s a reason Gog’s bed measurements are important.
It’s the same exact measurements given in rituals done in ziggurat temples. The bed is the same dimension where the god would come down and have sex with the temple priestess in a ritual ceremony. Gog is shown to be a violent beast of a giant who’s lord of this evil place. Throughout history of the bible and outside, this place is marked as the gateway to the netherworld, hades, etc.
And Gog was lord of this region. Throughout bible history, scholars recognize Gog as more than mortal but supernatural. You can’t just go, the Bible doesn’t mention specific details so therefore it doesn’t exist or never happened. That gives way to extremely bad theology, open to major secular professors proving the Bible is filled with errors (this being one of them).
You’re asking to prove something the Bible doesn’t explain but shows in way of narrative. It’s like demanding proof Nephilim were hybrid by way of explaining how sex works between elohim and human.
Explain the virgin birth of Jesus. Explain salvation. You can’t but it’s explicitly part of the narrative. So is Nephilim because it says so. Arguing the how is meaningless. I’m done
True Freethinker
Friend, I’m afraid that you’ve taken on the fallacious MO of pop-Nephilologists (and some scholarly ones) but as to not merely assert, I will elucidate.
I very specifically simplified it to, “please elucidate how the Nephilim made it past the flood, as a starting point” but you ignored that.
Be careful when you generically refer to, “extra biblical material” since that ranges very, very wildly in dating and genre.
And merely implying that it it’s “extra biblical” then it must be true or if it’s “extra biblical” and interacted with by biblical writers ergo the entire text is true is fallacious. Example, Paul quotes Greek poets but no one assumes that their poetry is all true.
As for, “focus on what the Bible points to and says” indeed, I’ve been doing that all along so take it slowly and I will show you your generic MO.
“In Numbers it says” is tragically generically vague. You tell me that an entire books says but some key questions are: who said it, why was it said, what was the reaction to it, was it true, etc.
So, when you authoritatively demand, “Anakim were descendants of Nephilim” you first need to check the LXX for that one verse, you then need to consider that you’re relying on unreliable guys, then that you’re believing their “evil report,” and ignoring that God rebuked them, plus the issue of, “how the Nephilim made it past the flood” and many, many more problems that the one single verse on which you rely creates.
You asserted, “Anakim were descendants of Nephilim…tall. Genesis 6 says the same thing” but that’s simply fallacious since it says no such things.
Burton and Van Down teach un-biblical Nephilology. I was emailing back and forth with Burton but the very second that I merely asked him if I could ask a challenging question he literally ghosted me. That’s how these guys keep giving off the air of being know-it-alls: they will not appear on any platform where they might be challenged, they hide away in the safe spaces.
You may want to read the relevant parts of the article, “Derek Gilbert on how ‘Giants in the Bible are Weird… and Important’”: https://truefreethinker.com/derek-gilbert-on-how-giants-in-the-bible-are-weird-and-important
Also see, “My review of Zachary Garris’ review of Douglas Van Dorn’s book ‘Giants Sons of the Gods’”: https://truefreethinker.com/my-review-of-zachary-garris-review-of-douglas-van-dorns-book-giants-sons-of-the-gods
It had disappeared off of my site due to a backup issue so I just reposted it just for you.
It’s not “Gog’s bed” but Og’s (just a slight typo) and I’m well aware since I wrote an entire book just about Og, “The King, Og of Bashan, is Dead: The Man, the Myth, the Legend—of a Nephilim Giant?” but you made a category error that violates the law of identity since our context is Nephilim but he was a Repha, not a Nephil.
Now, when you assert that Og , “is shown to be a violent beast of a giant who’s lord of this evil place” I know that you’re appealing to folklore from centuries after the Torah. Plus, you’re not just actually incorporating Pagan mythology into biblical theology.
As least you admit that, “Bible doesn’t explain” “how the Nephilim made it past the flood” and it doesn’t because they didn’t which is the part you’re jumping right over. When you read what the Bible does tell us about that issue you’ll realize that you making up stuff to fill in gaps is unnecessary since there are no gaps:
1) God didn’t fail when He sought to be rid of them via the flood.
2) The flood wasn’t much of a waste.
3) That THE one and only post-flood reference to Nephilim comes from an “evil report by unreliable guys whom God rebuked are GIGANTIC red flags.
4) The many, many, many, many problems with that one single verse can’t just be conveniently ignored.
5) The Bible isn’t mistaken the FIVE times it tell us who survived the flood without list Nephilim even one single time.
6) There’s not even a hint at a return of them, ever.
7) Nor any need to invent such a thing.
That brought the discussion to and end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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