The question Who are the Nephilim mentioned in the Bible that God wiped out during the flood? led to the following discussion when a certain Milan Woodson, “Ordained minister since 1989,” replied
The Nephilim were hybrid sons of angels that had materialized as humans that mated with women on earth. These Nephilim grew as unusually tall, huge and strong men. They were notorious for there feats of strength and violence. Their violence is partly what increased the violence amongst humans at that time before the global flood. The flood wiped out all the Nephilim.
I, Ken Ammi, replied
There’s no indication at all that, “angels…materialized as humans” nor that, “Nephilim grew as unusually tall, huge” nor that, “They were notorious for there feats of strength and violence.” But yes, “The flood wiped out all the Nephilim” which is why there’s never been any such thing as post-flood Nephilim.
Milan Woodson
Angels are sons of God who existed when God founded the earth, long before mankind was created.
“Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?…when…all the sons of God began shouting in applause? Job 38:4, 7
These same sons of God began noticing nearly perfect beautiful women on earth. Human men were already quite familiar with the daughters of men since the beginning since they were their mothers, aunts, cousins, sisters and wives. So the angelic sons of God started taking notice of the beauty of women in a desirable way, which they previously had not done.
“the sons of God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking” Ge 6:2a
This desire motivated them to take women as wives to mate with and bear offspring. The only way for this to happen is if angels transformed into human form, as physical men are. Angels do have such ability as described throughout the Bible.
“and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.” Ge 6:2b
The Nephilim were unusually tall and strong as the Hebrews knew from the stories past down to them from their ancestors, from Noah, his wife and his sons and their wives. They also had the account in Genesis chapter one as a reference. But this was an exaggeration and a lie out of fear, since all Nephilim drowned in the great flood. But their description reveals that the Nephilim we’re usually tall, mighty and strong.
“The Nephilim…the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.” Ge 6:4
“the people that dwell in the land are strong, and the fortified cities are very great…the people are stronger than we are.” Nu 13:28, 31
“all the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size…the Nephilim” Nu 13:32
Ken Ammi
Friend, I appreciate the detailed reply.
FYI: I literally wrote the book on Angels, “What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology.”
Now, you are quoting and applying scripture but note that you then just assert, “The only way for this to happen is if angels transformed into human form, as physical men are. Angels do have such ability as described throughout the Bible” but the problem is that you stop there and don’t provide quotations or citations for that.
You wrote a very cryptic paragraph since I’m unsure what you mean by, “The Nephilim were unusually tall and strong as the Hebrews knew from the stories past down to them from their ancestors, from Noah, his wife and his sons and their wives” for which there’s zero evidence.
“They also had the account in Genesis chapter one as a reference. But this was an exaggeration and a lie out of fear” but that chapter doesn’t state anything about Nephilim at all.”
“since all Nephilim drowned in the great flood. But their description reveals that the Nephilim we’re usually tall, mighty and strong” yet, Nephilim didn’t make it past the flood but we’re never reliably told whether they were “unusually tall” or not: we just don’t know.
Recall that I noted:
There’s no indication at all that, “angels…materialized as humans” nor that, “Nephilim grew as unusually tall, huge” nor that, “They were notorious for there feats of strength and violence.” But yes, “The flood wiped out all the Nephilim” which is why there’s never been any such thing as post-flood Nephilim.
Milan Woodson
“There’s also no indication “Falen angels…materialized.”
Yes there is. In order to impregnate a woman they had to have had been in physical form as men.
“There’s no indication “angels are spirit creatures”
Yes there is, read the Bible.
“And he came riding upon a cherub and came flying, and he came darting upon the wings of a spirit.” Ps 18:10
“Making his angels spirits” Ps 104:4
“because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens” Col 1:16
“every creature that is in heaven” Re 5:13
Angels also can transform into human form and back to angelic form.
“When he raised his eyes, then he looked and there three men…At this point the men turned from there and got on their way to Sod′om…Now the two angels arrived at Sod′om by evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sod′om” Ge 18:2, 22; 19:1
“The angel of the true God…vanished from his sight.” Jg 6:20, 21
“I’m unsure whence you got the idea that “They naturally look like the body silhouette of a man but shine with the brilliance of a star…a human of fire or plasma.”
I get my information from the scriptures. I don’t know where you get your notions from. They are not human, but the human form, specifically the male form, exemplifies their natural form. But, angels also have wings.
“when I founded the earth…the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause” Job 38:4, 7
“there was the likeness of four living creatures, and this was how they looked: they had the likeness of earthling man.” Eze 1:5
“he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire” Heb 1:7
“stars mean the angels” Re 1:20
There are more Scriptures that reveal this. I just provided a few for you to read.
Ken Ammi
Note the disconnect, you know that, “In order to impregnate a woman they had to have had been in physical form as men” so you invent, “Falen angels…materialized” but the biblically verifiable facts are that Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology. Thus, there’s no need to invent an un-biblical story about that, “Falen angels…materialized.”
For some reason you moved the goalpost when I commented, “There’s no indication ‘angels are spirit creatures’” but you replied about, “a cherub.”
Also, note that it matters since you committed a few logical fallacies, but please read various versions of that verse which actually follow the context and right have “winds” rather than “spirit”: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%2018:10
Likewise with Ps 104:4, you don’t seem to be reading for context but are just searching for a single word and are then just copying and pasting. That Psalm’s context is obviously constant correlations to natural phenomena thus, it should read “winds” rather than “spirits”: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%20104:4
Col 1:16 and Re 5:13 clearly have nothing to do with this.
You also invented, “Angels also can transform into human form and back to angelic form” which you then read into texts that say no such thing: again, you’re making up pseudo-data points that are also unnecessary. You began with the wrong premise so you feel the need to inset an assertion where none is needed.
See, “there three men” but you invent they transformed back and forth even though there’s zero indication of that.
“angel…vanished” didn’t change form: they can be visible or invisible, appear or disappear but you insert that they’re not material and must materialize into a text that states no such thing.
Indeed, “the male form, exemplifies their natural form” which is what I’ve been saying and you argue against me when I say it so you’re arguing against yourself.
When you insist, without any indication, “angels also have wings” you are making a category error that violates the law of identify since you appear to be referring to non-Angels in order to wrongly assert Angels have wings.
You appear to think that the celestial balls of gas we call “stars” are Angels but if so, that’s shockingly incoherent. Indeed, “stars mean the angels” in the text you’re reading, not in the universe.
You don’t seem to be aware that Heb 1:7 is quoting Psalm 104:4 so that was already dealt with.
And overall, none of this changes the biblically verifiable facts are that Angels are always described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and without indication that such isn’t their ontology.
That brought the discussion to and end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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