Hereinafter continues a series depicting discussion I had—or, attempted to have—with various Atheist about a video titled, “Biblical views on slavery with and Old an New Testament Scholar”—when all segments are posted, you will be able to find them all here.
You will note that the Atheists were quick to jump to their typical brimstone and fire condemnation modus operandi. However, once I sought to pick the scab of the conclusions with which they began, which exposed the mere assertions upon which they were jumping to conclusions, they typically called me names and utterly refused to engage in issues that are inconvenient to their worldviews.
Picking up where we left off in the previous segment, a certain spacedoohicky chimed in or actually did not chime in but decided to troll—meaning making un-contextual comments:
The golden rule was used by ancient Egyptians nearly 500 years before the old testament started to develop. And Confucius had it in his own writings.
But, friend, that is a half statement: what you said ergo what?
spacedoohicky:In reference to John saying someone plagiarized the golden rule. I say it doesn’t matter because there is a precedent of independent development of the golden rule. The ancient Egyptians developed it first.
And Confucius had no contact with Jews, or their media historically yet he still developed the golden rule independently. It’s even possible the ancient Jews plagiarized it from the Egyptians given the prior development, and proximity. It can be said at least that the golden rule has not, and never will belong to Jews.
Christians also claim ownership of it. It doesn’t belong to them either. I suppose I would go so far to say it doesn’t belong to anyone. At least not in the sense that plagiarism is a valid accusation. Or it could be said it belongs to everyone, and therefore no one.
Friend, I am not aware of the claim that “the golden rule…belong[s] to Jews.”
Yet, it does belong to someone: many cultures have hit upon it since we are made in God’s image and ethics (defined as the ethos) proceeds forth from God’s very nature and essence and is thus reflected in or expressed by us. Be aware that some cultures had a negative golden rule: http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/golden-rules%E2%80%94plural-golden-rule-vs-fools-gold-rule
As for “plagiarism is a valid accusation” which it may be but are you implying absolute ethics and if so upon what premise?
So my comment has disappeared. I’ll reiterate. Everyone was dirty back then. The Romans also had shared baths like the Jews.
It’s not about morals. It’s about how people in the past were ignorant. Everybody that learns about microorganisms takes showers, brushes their teeth, and sanitizes. It doesn’t matter who. Chinese, Jews, and Europeans all practice similar hygiene because of the germ theory of disease.
But back in the distant past those people didn’t know about the germ theory of disease. Why is Yahweh incapable of telling the ancient Jews about germs? The same came be asked of any other religion back then.
I don’t know if your story about persecution really means anything. Most ancient peoples took baths. They were all relatively clean. historylearningsite dot co dot uk/a-history-of-medicine/history-hygiene-timeline/ Just replace the dots with a period to use the url. But they didn’t know about germs. So they didn’t uniformly practice cleanliness. Many people probably died from minor wounds because they didn’t know about germs.
Friend, you are at the point of plowing on based on your prejudice and ignoring you were corrected by facts.
You utterly ignore the actually important point which is the how-to of staying clean and healthy. If doctors in the late 1800s AD would have listened to the Torah they would not have gone from dissecting a corpse to delivering a baby without washing up.
The Torah is saturated with details about dealing with corpses, blood, infections, etc. and you are not purposefully ignoring these facts just to continue pushing a false narrative.
And this is not merely about taking baths but also about mixing together various substances in order to concoct cleaning/disinfecting solutions.
But you really want to ignore these historically verifiable facts by merely saying “But they didn’t know about germs”? That’s like saying: sure, people stayed alive by drinking water BUT THEY DIDN’T KNOW IT’S H2O!
The Romans, and Greeks had similar practices, and understandings. Of course I wouldn’t ignore that because it was so common. But they couldn’t save a person that had already had tetanus, or gangrene. This is precisely the result of what they didn’t know, and didn’t understand. It only took a few decades to resolve tetanus, and gangrene after the discovery of germs. Even up until the development of germ theory the Bible had nothing to say about it.
To you’re H2O analogy it’s more like how the ancients knew that water turned to ice, and that keeping food cold kept it fresh, but did not understand enough to produce refrigeration. Being that they didn’t have an understanding of chemicals of course they couldn’t grasp the concept of refrigerant.
The point is that the ancients of every civilization had a very primitive form of science. Why was it ubiquitously primitive? It certainly was in spite of the god described by early Jews. Heck even the Roman gods are guilty of the same. We see that in the Roman’s early version of advanced plumbing which used pipes lined with poisonous led.
The Roman’s had the right idea by inventing plumbing, but screwed up by using led because they just didn’t know how bad it was even though miners died from sickness while collecting the poisonous metal.
Friend, you are still moving the goalpost—which is the one and only thing I have experience with Atheists (plural) in this comments section).
Your premise now is something to the likes of that, sure, Jews had very regimented manners whereby to avoid infections, including mixing curative substances, taking preventative measures, etc., etc., etc., but-but-but: they were unable to cure any and all diseases, infections, etc.
Now, you blame that on God not telling them about germ theory but we know of germ theory and cannot cure any and all diseases, infections, etc. so there goes that premise.
You are going on about refrigeration and are missing the point of the metaphor.
You say it was “ubiquitously primitive” but are just painting with a broom. Again, if doctors in the 1800s AD (circa 5.5 MILLENNIA after the Torah was written) would have followed its guidance about such thing they would have had much lesser death rates—as would have the common person who hardly bathed, stepped all over animal and human fecal matter barefoot on city streets, etc.
And there are many reasons why many cultures came to many of the same conclusions, speaking vaguely of course, which is that we are all made in God’s image and were not accidented into being.
In the next segment, we will continue from here since this discussion continued.
Learn more about Atheism from my various books about that worldview.
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