Such was a question posted to the Quora site which launched the following.
Keith Harris commented
Yes. Nephilim in the Bible just means “giants.”
Fun Fact: Hebrew words ending in “im” are PLURAL. So the correct way to ask this question is “Was Goliath a Nephil?”
There are many who believe that the Nephilim are “the fallen ones” a race of giants who lived before the Flood who were part human and part demon (Genesis 6:1–4). But this interpretation fails to consider that the same word is used again later in the Book of Numbers to refer to the descendants of Anak (Numbers 13:32, 33).
So taking the Brown-Driver-Briggs lexicon of the meaning of “nephilim” as giants then Goliath fits that definition. However, Goliath is NOT half human, half demon.
Jason Kelley replied
Sorry Keith your mistaken. it means “Fallen Ones” and these half-breeds were of great stature, “Men of legend”. We cant make the bible what we want it to be just because we don’t like the meaning. I did my thesis on just this subject when in seminary.
I heard all kinds of laughable explanations, rather then taking it as it reads. It is the opening narrative for why God had to destroy the earth with a great flood. They are NOT the descendants of Seth, or any other crazy notion that makes people feel better. They are what it says.
We also know that there was a war in heaven. Satan and a 1/3 of the Angels were kicked out heaven when they lost and sent here. Satan is still carrying on that war, seeking to destroy God’s creation by “devouring” whom he can.
Keith Harris
It’s unfortunate that you did a thesis this subject. In my opinion, there are far better subjects to tackle. I’m sorry to tell you that you happen to fall on the side of the majority and your findings are NOT groundbreaking or new at all! They simply align with human fables and your preconceived ideas.
Did you consider WHY the word occurs again many centuries later in the days of Moses? If so, explain it.
Did you realize that Genesis actually says that the “sons of God” were MARRYING the “daughters of men”? Where else in Scripture do we see angels (or demons) MARRYING humans??? Nowhere! In fact, it says the exact opposite!!!
Marriage is a HUMAN activity. The Bible NEVER says that the “sons of God” were having casual SEX with the “daughters of men” as many religious pundits teach.
The exact meaning of the word “Nephil” is uncertain. Some say it means “the fallen ones” others think it means “those who cause others to fall” but NONE indicate that they are half breeds of demons and humans.
Finally the phrase “men of renown” is a phrase that appears again in Numbers 16:1–3 and is applied to Korah, Dathan, and Abiram who were seeking to be leaders instead of Moses. Clearly they were MEN (not half breeds of demons and humans). And you know what happened to them: God caused the earth to swallow them alive!
In short, “men of renown” is a Bible phrase that means “mortals who seek to exalt themselves before men.” And in both cases God eliminated them from the face of the Earth!
I, Ken Ammi, chimed in with
Most interesting!
If “The Book of Revelation is not written in chronological order” how do you know that “The war in Heaven happened well before the Flood”?
Just because, in general, “The Book of Revelation is not written in chronological order” does not mean that it’s 100% anachronistic.
Rev 12 seems to be quite chronological with causes being followed by effects and with the war being post-resurrection of Jesus.
I’m not aware of anyone in history how claimed that “all that demons or angels had sexual intercourse with women.”
I have never done any thesis at all.
Yes, I’ve considered “WHY the word occurs again many centuries later in the days of Moses” and it’s laid out quite clearly in the narrative of Num chap. 13. Ten unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishers whom God rebuked for what they said within an evil report made up a “Don’t go in the woods!” type of fear-mongering scare-tactic tall tale when they, itinerate tent dwellers, were facing having to fight various people groups living in fortified cities.
Nowhere else “in Scripture do we see angels ([not] or demons) MARRYING humans” and that’s irrelevant since just because it didn’t happen more than once doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen once.
It never happened again since, as per Jude and 2 Peter 2, the Angels who did that were incarcerated and there’s only a one time sin/fall of Angels in the Bible.
“Marriage is a HUMAN activity” which is why Angles who did so are considered sinners, having “left their first estate,” in order to do so: as Jude put it.
“The exact meaning of the word ‘Nephil’ is” fall/fallen/to cause to fall, etc. but a word need to “indicate” their ontology, their parentage does that.
That “men of renown” is applied to others is as irrelevant as that Nephilim are called gibborim/mighty: as are Angels, some of David’s soldiers, Boaz, God, etc.
Thus, beyond that, your assertion that “‘men of renown’…means ‘mortals…’” is fallacious.
Keith Harris
We know that the war in Heaven happened well before the Flood because of Revelation 12:9
“And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.”
Revelation 12:9 NASB1995
“The Serpent of Old” was already in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 3 deceiving the woman. This shows that the war in Heaven took place sometime before the Fall of man.
Ken Ammi
Appreciate the interaction, friend, I love discussing such stuff.
Please be careful about taking texts out of context to make pretexts for prooftexts—especially based on one single verse.
The chronology is:
“She was pregnant”
“Dragon…swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth”
“dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth”
“She gave birth to a male child…[who] was caught up to God”
“war arose in heaven”
“dragon…was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him”
Etc.
Thus, pregnant woman (who she is, is another issue) Satan casting Angels to Earth, Jesus’ birth and ascension, then (in the past or yet to be) war in heaven, Satan cast to Earth, etc.
Keith Harris
Your confusion is understandable because the Book of Revelation is not always in chronological order. However, I gave you the one Scripture that ties everything together.
Even if you don’t know who the woman represents, the fact that Revelation identifies “the dragon” as the “ancient serpent who deceives the world” suggests that Satan was on Earth deceiving Adam and Eve because he had already been cast out of Heaven.
Obviously most Christians don’t make this connection and therefore do not understand that the war in heaven is an event that happened before the Fall of man.
Ken Ammi
Friend, I already noted that noting “the Book of Revelation is not always in chronological order” is not a relevant statement to make within this context.
Indeed, Satan had already fallen, as I will term it (Luke 10:18), from heaven but you merely assert that he fell due to the war but the Bible states no such thing.
He fell (his sinful act is recorded in Gen 3), he cast Angels to Earth (their sinful act is recorded in Gen 6), but it’s after Jesus’ resurrection that they fight the war and he’s permanently cast to the Earth (before he was still able to come before God: Job chaps. 1-2, etc.).
Keith Harris
“[The angels’] sinful act is recorded in Genesis 6.” No sir. The sons of God are NOT angels. I’ve already presented Scriptural evidence that “the sons of God” are the descendants of Seth. You’ve rejected that evidence and that’s your prerogative.
I grant you that after the cross Satan lost access to Heaven. But this fact does not change the fact that the war in Heaven took place before the Fall of Man.
Ken Ammi
Who are the sons of God in Job 38:7?
Why only exclusively male Sethites and only exclusively females Cainites?
As per Rev 12’s chronology, the war in heaven took place or will take place after Jesus’ resurrection.
Keith Harris
Who are the sons of God in Job 38:7? They are the “Adams” of the unfallen worlds that God created. Yes, God has many other worlds besides this one and they did not sin like Adam did.
Why only exclusively male Sethites and only exclusively females Cainites? – The descendants of Seth were the ones who kept the worship of the true God alive. After Abel died, Seth replaced him as the family guardian of truth.
Cain went his own way and did not follow God at all. This created a clear division: those who follow God (the descendants of Seth) and those who do not (the descendants of Cain).
Over time, the descendants of Seth, who are human like you and I, began to notice that the daughters of Cain were hot. This is NOT a farfetched concept at all. The women of the world tend to be more attractive than the women in church.
So, unfortunately, they acted on their lust and began to MARRY them. Whenever you’re unequally yoked with unbelievers, bad things tend to happen as Scripture has proven time and time again.
Ken Ammi
Whereabouts did you get the idea that “They are the ‘Adams’ of the unfallen worlds” and how could they see Earth being created from those various worlds?
So you’ve no reply to “Why only exclusively male Sethites and only exclusively females Cainites?”
I’m unsure how you can so simply praise Sethites (whom, after all, you blame for the flood) and all Cainites simply because you know of one wrong thing that Cain did.
Agree, “This is NOT a farfetched concept at all” but it’s a very, very late dated view which contradicts the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jews and Christians alike.
Yes, “Whenever you’re unequally yoked with unbelievers, bad things tend to happen as Scripture has proven time and time again” but there’s no indication there was any such commandment against it back then and also, why does that not cause floods today?
That was the end of that since no more replies where forthcoming.
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