Considering that we got into a variety of issues such as the text of Genesis 6, Nephilim, Angels, Demons, Giants, etc. we did not just generalize but dug deep into details and challenged each other’s views on this or that point which made for a great discussion and hopefully worth hearing. This was based on my book “On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?” which you can find here.
I really enjoyed this discussion since I knew that Doug understands these issues very well, has researched them very much, and so we could easily understand each other as well as challenge each other towards a better and more accurate comprehension.
We noted that one fascinating thing about the key text which is Genesis 6 is that its key portion is merely a few verses and yet, the pack a solid punch. You instantly have to deal with the sons of God, Nephilim, “giants,” what led to the flood, etc., etc., etc.
One thing I will note is that, as noted, while Doug is well aware of these issues we do differ on one important aspect. My view is that the issue of Nephilim were strictly a pre-flood phenomenon and he holds to pre and post flood Nephilim.
I came away more convinced of the inherit weakness of the view that there were (or still are) post-flood Nephilim. Clearly, Doug’s argument was exclusively based on “giants.” For some strange reason people see a flying object that appears to be high tech and instantly jump to the conclusion that therefore, aliens. Likewise, in this field of research people see the term “giant” and instantly jump to the conclusion that therefore, Nephilim.
I noted that I do not think the term “giant(s)” even belongs in the English Bible since it is generic and is used as a translation of various Hebrew words. I also noted that the term giants is not in Genesis 6 and so there is no reason to think that the Nephilim were giants (whatever that means: it only means taller than average). Doug noted that we are told that they were “of great stature” but when I asked where he referred to Numbers 13—about which we had a whole discussion.
Yet no, Numbers 13 does not tell us that the Nephilim were “of great stature” because that text, even if taken at face value, refers to the Anakim. Now, the Anakim are therein said to come from the Nephilim. That is said to be so by the spies who presented a “bad” report, by the way, a report which Caleb, Moses and God do not affirm: they affirm the Anakim in the land but each states nothing of the Nephilim (Joshua 14, Numbers 14 and Deuteronomy 1).
So, at this point the logic is Anakim giants therefore Nephilim giants. This may be somewhat logical and yet the point remains: we are not told anything about the Nephilim’s height but only the Anakim. Also, we are told that they were so tall as to make the Hebrews seem like grasshoppers. Some think this means that we can conduct a calculation so that as a grasshopper is to an average human so was an average Hebrew (males of those days being 5.5 ft) to an Anakim. Of course, if we can figure out the height of the Anakim this way then we also know how tall God is. Wait, what?! Well, Isaiah 40:22 tells us that God looks down on the Earth and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers to Him. Thus, these texts are implying that we can conduct a ratio based analysis of height or are implying metaphor.
Well, we know that the Anakim were named after Anak and that Anak’s dad is Arba but that is about as far as we can trace their geneology (as far as I can tell in any case).
Doug claimed that the various clans of giants were all Nephilim since Deuteronomy 2 refers to “The Emim” being “tall as the Anakim…the Moabites call them Emim…the Ammonites call them Zamzummim,” etc. Sure, but we are never told that, for example, we Hebrews call them Nephilim but others call them….
So yes, the various clans of people who the Bible calls “tall” or “very tall” but not “giant” (whatever that means) and they all either derive from the same basic people group or are basically the same people group but we are never told that they are related to the Nephilim—except within the “bad” report of the spies which Caleb, Moses and God do not seem to affirm.
Lastly, I will note that Doug takes the view that not all of the fallen Angels were incarcerated. However, Jude and 2 Peter tell us that the fallen Angels were incarcerated—period. They do not say that only some of them where and there is not logical or theo-logical reason to invent the idea that some were but some were not even though all committed the same crime.
In other words, in order to hold to a pre and post flood Nephilim view one must, by necessity, base one’s views on assertions or assumptions since, in fact, the Bible knows nothing of post-flood Nephilim, no return of Nephilim, no further fall of Angles, etc.
In any case, have a listen and enjoy a wild ride through a detailed discussion wherein we respectfully sharpen iron with iron. The only comments I am not reproducing are the ones simply complimenting the show.
Hey Doug! I am currently teaching this topic for my church. The Sethite view is so blatantly wrong its funny. Some people just won’t suspend their disbelief. The big question for me at first was, which fallen angels were these? Was it the angels that were cast out in Rev 12 or was there a second fall? I think the scripture tells us there was a second fall. Rev 12 says that those angels that were cast out with Lucifer were cast down to EARTH. Jude seams to tells us that other angels “abandoned” their proper dwelling and did not “keep their positions”. 2 Pet tells us that those angels were sent to hell kept in chains. Jubilees 5 says they were kept separate. So Im lead to believe there was a second fall. Thoughts?
Hi Ed, im not Doug but i think the same than you. I beleve the group of angels who fell for the lust of womens were a second fall, but most likely deceved by Satan who tried to stop the messianic prophecy of genesis 3. So this second group of fallen angels fell for the lust of womens but in the same time accomplish the will of Satan to corrupt the seed (DNA) of human womens from where the messiah was supposed to come to crush the head of the snake devil. Thoses angels are not in hell (sheol) (where unsaved humans are) but in the tartarus. It look like the tartarus is a permanent prison for angels. By the moment they are send there they have no more freedom (others demons still have some freedom to do their dirty work on the earth) and they are waiting for their final judgment in chain and darkness. This punishment is so terrible that I beleve its the reason why the angels never try to have sex with womens again after the flood. Hope it help. (sorry for my bad English, im a french)
Your English is very good (and it is my second language as well). As per the comment above as well: there is a difference between falling and being cast out. Yet, in any case: Revelation 12 has the Angles cast out after Jesus’ ascension. Keep in mind that Tartarus is a prison for Angels but not permanent since, even within Jude and 2 Peter’s context, they are released from there when they are judged so my view is that they are released (Revelation 9), war against Michael (Revelation 12) and are later ultimately judged. I agree that “This punishment is so terrible” which is why there was no such thing as a second fall of Angels.
I also generally noted:
Perhaps Doug and I should do a show on the serpent seed issue, I am currently publishing a series on that: https://truefreethinker.com/articles/new-book-cain-serpent-seed-satan-vol-iRevelation 12 places the casting out of those Angels to sometime after Jesus’ ascension. Thus, my view is that they fall (Genesis
6), they are incarcerated (Jude and 2 Peter 2), they are released (Revelation 9), they join Satan’s war against Michael and are cast out (Revelation 12).
Doug, you need to ask the Lord God to open your eyes because you are leading others astray with this false weak position, a man with the education such as you, have as much evidence as the theory of evolution, if you can get what your teaching from twisting the words there you should be promoting what makes sense and what is clear there is far greater support for the sethite view than the twisted weak view of fallen angels which is not even in the book of Genesis, btw you are in a new video called the ” nephilim lie” and you are mentioned amongst several others as a false teacher which you are
Angel’s have the ability to shape shift. They were not created through the dust of the earth, therefore they are not limited to the entanglements of fallen earth dwellers.
Many claim that Angel have the ability to shape shift but the Bible never states anything like that.
Is this guy even a christian Doug? You dont even give one hint that he is in your introduction and nor does he, since when is a freethinker known to be a christian but on the contrary, if I remember correctly a freethinker and a true one at that is someone who is opposed to accepted opinion especially those of religious belief and was known in the 60’s as those who were against orthodoxy, and I know as my dad formed a rock band in the 60’s called the freethinkers, thankfully there are more of us christians who know enough of Gods word to not fall for your false teachings….. youtube doug hamp rapture confusionist
Are you a Christian? I have heard you defend your opinion but not Scripture.
Am I a christian?? Hmm let me check my drivers lisence?? Just a minute ahhh….?? Ah ya Im afraid so, I think I realize the issue now Doug as you refuse to acknowledge my question but once again for good measure as we all get to see I have said this to you now about 8 times and Im sure every can read , please respond to what hebrews 1 vs 5 means? this is a SCRIPTURE ALERT , WARNING, WARNING…. SCRIPTURE ALERT, NOT OPINION SCRIPTURE ALERT WARNING!!! BTW have you check out this guys website that you are debating he has a satanic symbol as his moniker and you mention nothing about his relationship with God nor does he, whats up with that?? truefreethinker.com check for yourself
I will leave you and Doug to deal with the issues between yourselves. Yes, I am a Christian and would not recommend basing comments on “I remember correctly.” A good shortcut to understanding why I use the term free thinker is here: https://truefreethinker.com/articles/reply-atheist-terms-freethought-and-atheism
YOUTUBE…… THE NEW AGE NEPHILIM LIE
Says the man who can’t defend the Sethite view.
Check out my serpent seed book (this is vol. I): https://truefreethinker.com/articles/new-book-cain-serpent-seed-satan-vol-i
Actually I interpret Genesis 6 to mean they survived the Flood. It says “The Nef’lim were in the land in those days and also afterward.” Also, later on in the rest of the Bible, it mentions King Og with large dimensions of a bed… and Goliath was huge.
Indeed, it is common to interpret “also afterward” that way. Yet, one can just as easily, and more in keeping with immediate as well as greater context, to take is to mean “in those days” with a timeline beginning point which verse 1 has as “when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them” which could be as early as when Adam and Eve’s offspring first started having offspring, and “also after that” being just that: after that beginning point and yet, still pre-flood.
When we get into the issue of “giants” (whatever that means) we are all but forced to conclude and thus correlated “giant” with Nephilim but the Bible never draws any such conclusion nor offers any such correlation (remember that Numbers 13 is about the Anakim being tall, not the Nephilim: and even if someone wants to relate the two the fact is that, for example, I am taller than my parents).
If we claim that Og was unusually tall we must admit that the Bible does not state that but only that his bed was large so that one has to admit that they are claiming Og was unusually tall based on the size of his bed. As for Goliath, stating he “was huge” is generic: comparing Hebrew and Greek manuscripts he was from close to 7 feet to close to 10.
youtube, ” the new age nephilim lie”
Well, you keep attacking but with what evidence? Any Bible verses to share which demonstrate your case? Any? At this point you are just trolling.
this is not new age, it’s old age ! The body of the giants nephilims are found everywhere around the world in “the mud fossils”. Their enormous body were petrified in an instant during the cataclysm of the great flood. This is not a lie, its history. Do your research …
Are you for real or what?? All I do is point out bible verses and you keep ignoring them because you dont have an answer for them because it debuncts your ridiculous greek mythology, I pointed out 21 statements that you haven’t answered one for yet, see if you can respond to this one verse which I have pointed out to you at least 5 times, Hebrews 1 v5, unto which of the angels hath God said at anytime this day thou art my son and I hath begotten thee
hebrews 1 vs 5 hebrews 1 vs 5 hebrews 1 vs 5 hebrews 1 vs 5 hebrews 1 vs 5
peterthepiper, you debate things of lesser importance. If you are a real christian you should focus on preaching the gospel to the lost souls and build up the church of christ with “love ” and “respect” for your brothers in the faith. Dough is an honnest teacher, he teach the way he understand the scriptures. You have the right to disagree with some of his interpretations, but please stop this useless drama ! It show serious immaturity.
and by the way, there is often a part of true in the mythology. The story just get transform with times .. For exemple, there is a story of a great flood in most of the civilisations of the world, this show that the essence of the story is true even if each story is a little different. Titan were real before the flood and if you dare spending just 10% of the time I spend inspecting the mud fossils you will change your mind.
Peterthepiper what’s your point with hebrew 1 vs 5. ??
I should be focusing on the lost….. what are you doing here??, and how would you know if I don’t, I do all the time, I don’t see your gospel preaching message, the gospel is for the lost not the church, this is a matter of doctrine whether you see it or not and saying I disagree does nothing to get people to think of the matter this is heretical and God has given us all we need in his word and when heresy is present it does not go lightly just a Jesus did in the temple, we are to expose false teachings and ” doctrines of demons” and if you don’t think this isn’t just that then what is? please tell us… if demons having sex with humans and creating monsters, the book of enoch is a false gospel and has the Nephilim to be 450 ft tall and Doug uses that as support for his theory and that is acceptable??Doug refuses to answer , We all know when you know the truth you welcome scrutiny as it is an opportunity to prove it, the number one reason this is disturbing is because it means to us sincere Christians who are looking to be fed truth cant trust some pastors because they are twisting the scriptures to fit there ideas because they become popular and sell books etc and more importantly the Nephilim theory lets humans off the hook for sin and evil as it teaches that God flooded the earth because of them and not us and Gods word clearly says man 10xs in Gen 6, all false doctrines are taught on controversy and what is not clear and this is both of those, if Doug claims to have some authority on this topic then let him answer the 21 reasons I gave that he hasn’t answered and put me to rest, if I put up a video of such controversy I couldn’t wait to respond because when its the truth you love it so, the Nephilim theory is just that and should not be taught in the body of Christ for ant reason as it is not in the word of God but only corrupted bible versions
ok let me see, you are in a christian in legalist sect, if if me or Dough don’t understand the bible 100% THE SAME WAY THAN YOU DO, WE ARE ALL FALSE TEACHER AND HERETICS ?? have you lost your mind ? wetever if you interpret genesis 6 being giants or not, is not an issue that compromise your salvation. To be save you need to repent from your sins and beleve in the sacrifice of christ on the cross, That’s all. We should not divide the church because of secondary doctrine like the giants, this is the work of the devil.
Genesis 6:4King James Version (KJV)4 There were “giants” in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown” I think the word giant mean literal giant no ? its crystal clear, if you dont see it its because you dont want to see it because it doesn’t fit you theologie… but its cleary in the bible.
normally I come on you tube to share an exchange peacefully with bothers and sisters in christ, or to help the pagan unbelever to find Jesus. not for long useless debate on secondary doctrines like your are doing.
I am saying what the bible is clear about not unclear, please do not put me into your understanding of what secondary issues are, I have no problem with the word giants as it refers to their stature not size, this is a topic of the study of Gods word as a whole not just a few verses and if one looks at it that way you dont have a limited viewpoint such as yours because the conscience God gave us tells us that DEMONS CANNOT HAVE SEX with humans let alone reproduce and the nephilim theoy is NOT a secondary issue it is doctrinal, just because it isn’t to you or Doug is not a sign that isn’t, 1 timothy 4 vs 1, b) that in latter times some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, if a christian teaching that humans can have sex with demons is not just that then by all means tell me what is!! This is heretical on all fronts, is greek mthyology and satanic and there are many solid christian teachers that think so as well this myth is unclear in Gods word and refutes the cross because it tells us that God punished the world because of the nephilim and not us, doug refuses to answer my point about hebrews 1 vs 5 because it 100% clearly debuncts the nephilim theory, Doug does not believe in the prerapture of the church and I am not arguing that because there is apparent support for both viewpoints and I get that this is not it , why would anyone teach something that has such little if nothing but theory than what is clear as it says 10xs in 7 verses man in Genesis, ” VS 1, And it came to pass when MEN,, the daughters of MEN, my spirit shall not strive with MAN, the same became MIGHTY MEN, and GOD SAID i WILL DESTROY MAN,and it repenteth the Lord that he made MAN, and GOD saw the wickedness of MAN, even after all is said and done in this chapter God says….I will destroy MAN whom I have created not the nephilim, the nephilim is not Gods creation, God is taking ownership here of his creation and besides even satan himself is not allowed to do anything God will not allow, ie; God had to give him permission to harm Job and his family and yet Doug is teaching that satans subbordinates could help themselves to the women, absolute bunk ! This heretical
Whatever you say bud, ” I think the word giant mean literal giant no?” How is that crystal clear to you, you don’t know yourself, I suggest you study this topic with the Holy spirits leading and see what your conclusion is later as you are arguing with me with what you think but don’t know, the giants are NOT physical giants it was their stature
first, you wont admit it but, yes, you divide the holy church of christ for doctrines of lesser importance. It,s because of inflexible christian like you that there is hundreds of protestant denominations around the world ! it’s a shame. Every denomination think that they all understand it better than the other !There a lot more importants points to debate than the nephilim, even if its good to know the truth in every subject of the bible. You should rather debate primary doctrine like expiation at the cross with muslim, salvation through faith with catholic roman, the existence of God with atheist and so on … attacking Doug and me on the nephilim is a wait of your precious time. If you dont want to see it in the bible its your choice, even if its clear, but please leave us alone.
now, I still want to give you a last short answer. In fact, its you who twist the word of God to fit your personal opinion. When the bible talk about giant its always literal giants, not only Stature (you change the meaning) The giants of Canaan were real giants and much taller when Joshua enter the promise land. Goliath was also a real giant and taller whem David kill him. THis is why they were so scary !
yes fallen angels, are not supposed to have sex with womens, but for some reasons we dont know it happen before the flood. They coulnt do that unless this particular generation at the time of Noah give them the permission to do so. But sadly they did ! and it mess up all God creation. The nephilim were part of mankind of that time, so when God said he will destroy mans that also included thems the nephilims. According to the apostle Peter the fallens angels who did that were punish pretty badly to make sure something like that will never happen again in the futur. these evil angels were send in the Tartarus (prison)in chain and darkness until the final judgement. read again peter 2:4.
1 last thing, in the book of Job angels are called the sons of God, (Jo 1:6, 2:1, 38:7) so you need to understand hebrew chapter 1 in this perspective. Hebrew chapter 1 cannot means that the angels are not sons of God since it clear in the book of Job. The point he make in the book of Hebrew is that Jesus is the only begotten son and much superior to angels. Jesus is the only son of the father who was never created and who ever co existed with him from all eternity past. Its like if you want that he is the son above other sons, the king above others kings and the lord above other lords. You cannot isolate hebrew 5 outside other verses on the subject
That was three comments in a row to which he added another reply
Peter, try ti understand genesis 6 to the light of genesis 3. After the fall, God said to satan (the snake) that from the seed of the woman will come one day someone who will crush his head. So this is why Satan send some if his fallens angels to have sex with human womens to corrupt the seed (gene/DNA) of the womens so the messiah wont be able to come ! This make perfect sense !
You should take a look to the you tube channel of age of disclosure, he show petritied bodys of giants from all around the world ! Of course we have to stay critics, what he present is not 100% accurate, but there is way too much mud fossils of giants to denied their existence any longer.
The holy church… are you a catholic perhaps? I have heard the arguments many many times and have exhausted this topic extensively in my own time and you are not saying anything I haven’t heard or what Doug is saying here, you have been told what the Word of God says as a whole by my thoughts and Dougs interpretation, you will have to allow the Holy spirit to guide you, if the nephilim makes sense to you I have nothing more to say that will have any merit, if you look at the comments I have posted at least 20 reasons that Doug cant/wont answer that contradict that theory and could easily come up with more but it is futile
Catholic mean universal, so yes im part of the universal church of Jesus-Christ. But im not roman catholic. Yes his church is holy because he cleanse our sins away at the cross…
Peter, Honestly I dont care if you dont want to beleve in literal interpretation of genesis 6 about the giants/nephilims. What make me angry is when you call “false teacher ” other bible scholars who have solid biblical support to teach it. Learn to respect the opinions of others when its not about the primary fundamental doctrines of salvation. Otherwise you create division and give a bad testimony to others unbelevers who could read your comments. You think peoples are going to be interested to become Christians when we cannot even agree with each others on somethings silly like the giants ? think about it before you start new debate again. You are not advancing the cause of Christ doing that.
Well said, I hear ya loud and clear and can respect that, my point of view comes from the love of Gods word enough to know heresy when I hear it though, you dont think so I can see that, How do you think satan works?? Red suit and pitchfork?? Whether or not Doug is a christian is not my call but we can make judgements in comparison with Gods word, this teaching is heretical and he uses gnostic gospels to support his theory and this very man in the video is not a christian either why would a christian pastor want to use gnostic gospels and non christians to support his point of view?? That is heretical call me what you like have you heard Doug’s responses to hebrews 1 vs 5?? Nope end of story
Common Peter, its sure that Doug is a save Christian. Jesus and the apostles never said that you need to understand everything perfectly in the words of God to be save. What you need to understand and beleve in is the sacrifice of christ at the cross as a subtitute for your sins. Even if me and Doug were wrong about the giants, but I dont think so, we are saved because of our faith in Christ… not because of our understanding of the nephilims. were is your discernement brother ?
remember the criminal who was crucified on the side of our lord ? (luke 23:43) at very last moment of his life he put his faith in Jesus as his messiah and jésus told him : Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise ” now, this man didnt’ have the chance to go down the cross and study the bible. Hs simple act of faith in christ was enough to save his soul… always remember that : the way you understand genesis 6 is not going to change anything in the salvation of anyone !
concerning Hebew 1vs 5. I give you an answer already and John Meyer also (in another comment below) but you just dont want to listen.
Your preachin to the choir
im not preaching to the choir. I was talking to “you”
Im not talking to YOU !! Im talking to Doug he cant answer hebrews 1 5
if you really want to know the truth and what Gods word clearly says look up ” THE NEW AGE NEPHILIM LIE” and you will see it is obvious what Gods word says as a whole, not twisted cherry picking versus to make a weak/evolution theory
Fair -Time- Grind
Can you do me a favor and stop spamming with the comments ‘it’s kind of adolescent you already posted like 7 times give it a break or just leave it be sheesh.
Answer the question doug !!, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN HEBREWS 1 vs 5 ??, ” for unto which of the angels has he said at ANYTIME thou art my son this day have I begotten thee”? How can the ” sons of God be fallen angels when it says they dont marry which Genesis says they took wives and It clearly says that the angels are not called sons of any sort or NEVER have been called such
Jesus said: ” The angels IN HEAVEN don’t marry ” – Look at the Hebrew word Benai Elohim (or something like that) which is used to describe angels in Job.
Peterthepiper Is your contention with the term begotten or angel or son?
It seems to me the context has to do with kingship. It is not saying sons of God aren’t angels. The whole context is dealing with the supremacy of Christ. Hebrews 1:5 is a poor eisgetical argument against the sons of God being angels.
On the contrary… there is no angel argument in Genesis 6 it isn’t there, it says sons of God and giants, angels are not in the hebrew or greek but in the corrupt LXX. and now the perverted bibles
1. How can angels have sex? they must have a penis and reproductive organs
2.Where were the men when the women were being raped( or did they buy them drinks first?)
3.Why did they wait until Noahs day around 1400 bc instead of right away?
4.They took wives, Gods word says they dont marry
5.There is no mention of angels having sex with humans anywhere in the bible
6.What happened to them? did they drown in the flood? apparently angels are spirits and can fly remember
7.There is no mention of the prodigy afterward except the word giants appearing in numbers 13 which is only how they appeared
8.the book of Jude says they are in everlasting chains, did they get a jail free card for the weekend?
9.The word of God says the giants already existed even before the sexual union of the 2
10. Genesis 6 say’s 10xs the word MAN, IN 7 verses and his days shall be 120 yrs, how can that be angels
11.Why did God punish the earth and man yet not the angels or did they have life jackets on in the Ark?
12.Doug claims the sons of God are angels and hebrews 1 vs 5 says,, for unto which of the angels did he say thou art my son this day have I begotten thee!!
13.Doug claims Goliath was the nephilim because he was huge yet his parents aren’t mentioned nor any of his giant relatives as such ( apparently the friendly giants ! lol)
14. the nephilim prodigy died with a shepherd boy with a stone in one throw!!
15.In the last days of Noah is an analogy of how the rapture will take place not the return of the nephilim
16.why wouldn’t they kill or corrupt Noah and his family too apparently they had sex with everyone else
17.Why would God allow demons to be called the sons of God when they are now in their fallen state? He wouldn’t
18.Since when do bible SCHOLARS use gnostic gospel and outside resources for support? They dont
19. why isn’t Doug debatting anyone of a similar education background? Because its not worthy
20. why wouldn’t an all loving God warn us about such a corrupt being coming to take over
21 ONE MORE FOR GOOD MEASURE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY……..iT BLASPHEMES THE CROSS AS God came and died on the cross for the sin of man and if the nephilim is why were are so corrupt then we could have an excuse to blame God when we stand before him and we all know that is not acceptable
Once again – when you came on my show you had nothing to say. Come on again if you would like and then you can enlighten us once again.
Peterthepiper You neglected to answer my question. What is your argument with Hebrews 1:5? The context is kingship and the supremacy of Christ.
Once again you refuse to answer the question because you cant, the number one thing God hates Doug is P R I D E !
according to Doug it was just common law though, there were no rings involved!
Peterthepiper I believe I have answered your question. You have not answered mine. In what context are you using Hebrews 1:5? Are you looking at the cross references? They deal with kingship and the supremacy of Christ. Show me how you are using this verse for your argument.
Thanks for proving my point Doug, why would you want me to come on your show again if you think I have nothing to say ?? So you can try and mock me…. yup, you cant answer a simple question why would I waste my time, the only reason I was embarrassed last debate was because a friend of mine showed up while I was recording and I thought it was tacky that she was now in the background, it had nothing to do with not being prepared I only quoted scripture and because I said that was my opinion of it you constantly say my view is just opinion and not fact when you are the one presenting theory, yes you are prepared more with non biblical answers I will give you that but you cant answer hebrews 1 vs 5 because you know darn well it proves you wrong, I will contiNually debate you on line as it is more civil, you obviously have more time, once again…… HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN HEBREWS 1 VS 5 ! Come on pastor you can do it
Peterthepiper Can you answer my question please?
the nephilim lie…. Genesis 6 Doug hamp teaches that the sons of God are angels and had sex with humans, hebrews 1 vs5…. ‘ for unto which of the angels had he said at anytime, thou art my son and this day have I begotten thee……. That verse clearly says that at no time have any angels been given a name where they are called sons……. therefore the sons of God in Genesis cannot be angels
Peterthepiper Angel /Sethite view aside, the writer of Hebrews is quoting psalm 2:7 it is referring to kingship. To say it is saying sons of God are not angels is neglecting every old testament passage. To do so is negligent and erroneous. That’s cherry picking a verse out of context. The fact that the writer of Hebrews is quoting psalm 2:7 is to remind us of the supremacy of Christ and his kingship not anything else. The context of the first few chapters of Hebrews is this very idea. To use it to defend your view strips it of the overarching theme.
horsefeathers !! Dont put words in my mouth you are assuming I have the limited understanding of Gods word as you do and I am afraid I dont, you can say all you want about the context pretext yadda yadda yadda, lets just go with face value shall we…. it clearly says angels have never been given the title of sons !! Period, If I have to explain more on that than we have nothing to discuss you have your view and I have mine my question is to Doug and he knows it and is why he he hasn’t responded because he knows that verse says exactly that, secondly you have asked me what I meant by that twice as you didn’t understand and now that I point it out all of a sudden you know all about it, hmmm,,,,,goodbye!
Peterthepiper Then we have nothing more to discuss. If you can’t see that the writer of Hebrews is giving commentary on other writings then what’s the point.
HOW IS 21 STATEMENTS NOTHING TO SAY
Josephus the book of jubilees the book of enoch… all false non canonised books that false teachers use because they cant support there theory with just the bible.
I think we already had a debate and you had nothing to say. You only had opinion; no substance. Then you asked me to take down the video because you looked foolish. Why do you keep doing this?
Hi Doug. how do you figure me constanlty quoting Gods word just opinion and you use other resources other than the bible as support for an extremely weak theory that no one would get from reading Genesis other than twisitng other passages because it popular today to sell books and videos
You have a selective memory. I quoted great amounts of Scripture. You simply told us you don’t think angels and women can have relations. Did you quote Scripture? No, you quoted your own opinion and that was it. I was clear that I use the extra biblical resources as commentary. I do not rest my argument on them…they are secondly sources which demonstrate that the unanimous opinion back then was the angelic view. Once again, bring some real evidence, please.
Goliath was 9 ft 9- 6 cubits and a span, and he had parents and if he was the nephilim why weren’t his parents and lineage known but only him, and also if he was the nephilim prodigy isn’t it funny that he was taken out with a small stone from a little unsuspecting guy, the NEPHILIM THEORY IS FALSE TEACHING and blasphemous as it contardicts why God destroyed the world as it says that God destroyed the world because of man who is flesh and a life span of 120 yrs
Anyone who practices any sort of hermenutics can see that it is not saying they were giants in numbers 13, 33, it is a description of how they appeared and if that is to you then you need to come up with a theory that the Israelites were grasshoppers! The word nephilim is only from the false writings assembled known as bibles today from the Alexandrian texts and not Antioch
How do you explain hebrews 1.5
What exactly is your question? How does that passage pertain to the subject at hand?
All those who know the truth welcome scrutiny! and besides this is cyber world if you cant handle critisism maybe you should pick a topic that is’nt considered heretical amongst most christians( not professing or youtubers,
Once again Doug answer the question…. Hebrews 1. 5 ‘ Unto which of any of the angels hath God said at anytime thou art my son and this day hath I begotten thee….
My name is Ed, perhaps Doug will answer your question but I still don’t know why you’re asking your question. Heb 1:5 is addressing the fact that the angels are lower than Jesus. How does this apply to the Nephilim?
As a christian today it has become difficult to find a place where you can get solid biblical teaching from a NON CORRUPTED TEXT, THE LXX. aka Alexandrian new age bibles. and so the internet has become a place where you can at least choose what you prefer and it is frustrating when people have an extensive background with W.H.Y about Gods word when face value and common sense is not applied .Doug will often refer to ” what the hebrew or greek originally means etc” and causes doubt and that we cant rely on what is written because we cant read either, meaning we having mistranslated bibles or texts( which all are other than from Antioch) and will then explain that word doesn’t mean this or that,ie; ” the word Adam, the word nephilim, and that is because he is reading from an Alexandrian text and a corrupted LXX.himself why? Because it sells that is why, it sounds cool, it is fitting with a corrupt society, it makes great movies, the nephilim heresy was not worthy of mention as that word did not exist until the corrupted bibles came along in the 20th century, for 350 yrs of trusted bible it only read sons of God and giants NOT nephilim which does not translate” fallen angels” but only fallen, he uses the corrupted text and LXX. willing because it supports this doctrine of demons( and if this isn’t then what is?) Pastors have a responsibility to teach the truth not theories, even if this theory had truth in it it is not clear and does NOT have support of Gods word as a whole, angels leaving their first estate is NOT them becoming demons or bad angels, it is referring to them no longer being in Gods presence hence the word ESTATE you know home?? It is one heck of a stretch to teach this as solid when Genesis 6 says 10xs in 7 vs man, even after the apparent sexual union God still calls them men after, why didn’t he punish the angels and spare us?? Once again if this is enough to teach as gospel then you could teach the Israelites were grasshoppers and everyone in the NBA are the nephilim, the biggest issue is the battle for Gods word and the only bible that exis’st today without a copyright and is being wanned out of the church… THE KING JAMES
Ah ok. Now I think I know where you’re coming from. Let me just say this and hopefully its helpful. In regards to the different translations I would agree that some are way out there in left field. Too liberal in their license. No argument there. Here’s the way I see it. The Bible tells us over and over again that only those who truly seek will find. To find faith requires some skin in the game if you will. God wants those who earnestly seek with all of their heart. So trusting in this I think the truth of any matter can be found by those who honestly look for it. Even if someone in earnestly looking while reading a lesser translation can find God. Why? Because God is God and he will lead that person to the truth. With regards to the Nephilim, Giants or Fallen. This is a hard topic to accept at first take. It doesn’t fit our contemporary narrative. It sounds like fairytale fodder. But when you seek out other ancient writings that back it up you’ve got to take a second look. And there are many many ancient writers that support this history. Jasher, Jubilees, Enoch, Philo, Josephus, Baruch etc etc. They all agree that what Doug has taught was true. I mean think about it. If God tells Lucifer that one of Eve’s offspring will crush his head….if you were Lucifer wouldn’t you want to corrupt that seed?
watch the video, the new age nephilim lie, the truth shall set you free
4 minutes into the video and I had to turn it off. I don’t need the books of Enoch and Jasher to prove my position on the giants. It’s absolutely clear in the scriptures.
Wow and your a pastor, that video is debuncting those books not supporting them, watch the whole video, if not then we have nothing to debate, cheers
Peter my brother, you can’t have it both ways. I told you that I don’t need those books to prove the point of the giants. It’s all in the Bible. If anything, the extra-biblical texts only support what the Bible already says.
And that is as far as it went.
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