Following the Islamic terrorist attacks upon France, I posted an image which included the following statement from celebrity Atheist Richard Dawkins:
There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death.
I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.
—“Scandal and schism leave Christians praying for a ‘new Reformation’,” Times Online, April 2, 2010 AD.
In order to note how some people miss them point, and some may do so on purpose, I will related some back and forth I had on Facebook when I received the following reply from someone named Faisal Wo Bas:
No but you have xtians involved in state terrorism and perpetrating genocides…the systematic slaughter of 500,000 iraqi children speaks volumes about your hypocrisy. [ellipses in original]
Now, he is not altogether off of target as Dawkins did mention Christians. The issue I had in mind would be put something to the likes of the following in computer IT terms: “IF Islamic terrorism is mentioned THEN ignore it and talk about the Bible and Christians.”
I replied thusly:
The level of brainwashing by religious and media propaganda never ceases to fascinate me. In the face of daily Muslim terrorism all around the world, you attack Christians but so you have been trained as the memo seems to read, “When Muslim terrorism is mentions, always and without fail bring up the Bible and Christians so as to avoid discussing Muslim terrorism.” The Encyclopedia of Wars (New York: Facts on File, 2005) was compiled by nine history professors who specifically conducted research for the text for a decade in order to chronicle 1,763 wars. The survey of wars covers a time span from 8000 BC to 2003 AD. From over 10,000 years of war 123 wars, which is 6.98 percent, are considered to have been religious wars. Moreover, half of those involved Islam.
When in a relatively short span of time one religion racks up half of all religious wars ever fought I would think that the reply would not be to say, “But, but, but, like, the Christians also and stuff.”
My Facebook resident Atheist troll, Neil Yoder, replied with:
^^argues by making a completely unsupported claim the opposing view has been “trained” and attempts to cite a completely nonexistent “memo”… [tongue emoticon] [ellipses in original]
I am not sure what “^^” but this Atheist tends to fill in the gaps in his ability to argue cogently by inserting various figures, emoticons, etc. In any case, I replied to him thusly:
Please actually read comments before emotively butting in with contrarianism. The Encyclopedia of Wars is not unsupported, it is a scholarly work.
Well, Faisal Wo Bas replied with:
True Freethinker, thats a dumb answer. You are quoting a reactionary atheist to support the view that Christians don’t do x or y. My point is that Christians are involved in worse atrocities compared to individuals committing crimes. Xtian Americans and other terrorists have participated directly and indirectly in some of the worst genocides and state terrorism in history. And i did give the example of the American state terrorism and genocide against Iraqi children. It was supported by many xtians American. [here, he inserted a link to a video titled, “Madeleine Albright says 500,000 dead Iraqi…”]
Your reply about The Encyclopedia of Wars is irrelevant really.
Now, I decided to elucidate the issue to him as it is not what someone who does something calls themselves but whether that which they do is supported or condemned by that which they call themselves. For example, once can call oneself a vegan and then eat meat on a daily basis so the issue is that veganism would condemn that which they do and so they are not a true vegan (BTW: this also shows that the “No true Scotsman fallacy” is, itself, a fallacy as no true vegan eats meat and that is a fact).
Exactly what reactionary Atheist did I quote?
You seem to be missing something as the issue not who does what but why they do it. However, I noted that you keep on proving me right by acting upon brainwashing by religious and media propaganda which in the face of daily Muslim terrorism all around the world have people so well trained that they instantly go on the attack against whom? Against Christians.
Faisal replied thusly:
“Daily Muslim terrorism” is incomparable to daily American xtian terrorism around the world. There are countless example, at least, Muslims don’t have 700 military bases overseas, unlike the peace loving Americans.
Quoting a reactionary atheist like Dawkins to tell us that a Christian like George Bush doesn’t blow up buildings? Well he did perpetrate a genocide. Its even worse.
Fine, the reactionary Atheist which I quoted was Dawkins, I thought that he was referring to something within my subsequent comments.
So, now I decided to go to the very bottom line and you will see that I got nowhere which is generally what you will get when you go for bottom lines rather than endlessly chasing people into rabbit holes:
Do you think that those Muslim terrorists are, in fact, Muslims who follow Islam, adhere to the Qur’an, consider Muhammad to be the final prophet and worship Allah?
Do you see the reason for asking this key question? For one, if he does think so that would equal him sawing off the very branch upon which he is sitting as via logical consistency he would have to admit that if those Muslim terrorists are not actually Muslim then those “xtians” to whom he refers are not actually “xtians.” Conversely, if he agrees that they are Muslims then well, he has to deal with that inconvenient fact and then the discussion would lead to whether their actions are supported or condemned by Muhammad, the Qur’an, Allah, etc.
Here is Faisal’s reply to this specific and focused question:
Yet you never ask this question when American terrorists perpetrate all kinds of evil, like the xtian Geroge Bush. Double standards, racism or silence of the devil?
Do you see how it works? He ignores the question and attempts to get me to rabbit trail off into aruing about “American terrorists,” “Geroge Bush, “racism,” etc.
At times such as these, it is a good idea to remain focused:
How on Earth do you know what I ask or do not ask?
Now, do you think that those Muslim terrorists are, in fact, Muslims who follow Islam, adhere to the Qur’an, consider Muhammad to be the final prophet and worship Allah?
Well, I never heard from Faisal and so I posted this:
I am often very sad to be right. In this case Faisal Wo Bas is exactly that which I thought: brainwashed by religious and media propaganda to the point of realizing that he has painted himself into a corner and replying not by backing off from the corner but simply going away after being incapable of answering a simple question. So terribly sad.
Meanwhile, back at the Atheist ranch; Neil Yoder chimed in by simply posting a link to the CNN report on the Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting. Not only does this miss the point entirely but the report, Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting: 3 killed – CNN.com, does not even mention Christians or Christianity. This is the very same CNN who was desperate to find a nearby Planned Parenthood when Muslim terrorists murdered 14 people at a Christmas party in California: apparently, Planned Parenthood shooting means right winger, right winger means conservative, conservative means Republican, Republican means Christian and thus, Christians, the Bible, God, Jesus, etc. can be blamed for Muslim terrorism…or, something.
Well, what could I do but ask the key question:
Do you think that those Muslim terrorists are, in fact, Muslims who follow Islam, adhere to the Qur’an, consider Muhammad to be the final prophet and worship Allah?
And well, that was the end of that as no reply was forthcoming.