“RAPE: BIBLE STUDY!” discussion with Atheists

To the YouTube video by GMan titled “RAPE: BIBLE STUDY!” I wrote:

I wrote a detailed series on this issue as a reply to the misunderstandings of it posted on the evilbible.com site: truefreethinker.com – Atheism, the Bible, Rape, EvilBible.com and Dan Barker, part 1 of 6 | True Freethinker

A certain “Moe the Pagan” wrote:

To the YouTube video by GMan titled “RAPE: BIBLE STUDY!” I wrote:

I wrote a detailed series on this issue as a reply to the misunderstandings of it posted on the evilbible.com site: truefreethinker.com – Atheism, the Bible, Rape, EvilBible.com and Dan Barker, part 1 of 6 | True Freethinker

A certain “Moe the Pagan” wrote:

Thank you, but if you know GMan, he doesn’t think evilbible.com – Evil Bible .com – Fighting Against Immorality in Religion is a good web site. Then again he thinks Peter Pan is named after the god Pan. We’re not talking an intellectually honest person here.

Meanwhile, a certain “Cdesign Proponentsists” chimed in with:

Disgusting that the bible says that i can rape a virgin and pay off the father and now she is my wife.

My reply:

Wow, whereabouts does the Bible say that?

Cdesign Proponentsists

Google it.

Ken Ammi

Am I to conclude that you have a strong opinion that is not backed by evidence?

Cdesign Proponentsists

avoid then

Well, you can see that this was not going well. Well, “Tyler Durden” chimed in with the answer—and a sidebar:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29. Suck it 🙂

Ken Ammi

Thank you for doing that which Cdesign Proponentsists was unable. Now, what about Deuteronomy 22:28-29, how is that relevant?

Tyler Durden

Those are the verses you asked for, the ones that say you can rape an unmarried girl, pay her father, and make her your wife. The bickering between you two where you were both incapable of a quick Google search to find them was childish and distracting everyone from the interesting things I was saying, so I put a stop to it. Now go play with your ancient book full of murder and rape while the adults continue our conversations elsewhere.

Ken Ammi

Sorry friend, I thought that you would be generally aware of the discussions within this comments section. Thus, I assumed that you would see that I am the one who posted a link to my extremely detailed article about everything that evilbible stated about rape and so, I do not need to do a quick Google search regarding texts with which I am very familiar.

Now, you seem to presuppose that there is something wrong with rape but why is it wrong, bad, evil, immoral, unethical, or whoever you would characterize it.

Now to the text you cited: you are reading the concept of rape into a text which does not reference it (I am assuming that you know how to apply principles of hermeneutics, research ancient languages, etc.). You see that chapter is laying out various scenarios and for rape you want to read verse 25 which makes it clear that the biblical view on rape is that it is a crime punishable by the death penalty upon the rapist.

Cdesign Proponentsists

i failed to do nothing. I knew your response would be idiocy.

Ken Ammi

Well friend, stating “avoid then” is failing to back claims with evidence. As of yet my only responses have been to ask you, et al. for evidence. Now, if you have some please reply in a substantive manner so that we may engage in reasoned discourse.

Cdesign Proponentsists

+Ken Ammi sad that you would follow a book that allows rape, slavery and mass genocide

Ken Ammi

+Cdesign Proponentsists Friend, clearly you are condemning rape, slavery and mass genocide but upon what premise do you do so? Please recognize that if you have no premise then your condemnation is merely emotive and thus, meaningless.

Tyler Durden

+Ken Ammi If you prefer to defend the book full of murder and rape you go right ahead, as long as your storybook isn’t impacting the real world I don’t really care what’s in it all that much. I prefer well written mythologies that have complex character arcs and not as much invading other nations and taking people as slaves to rape.

Ken Ammi

Friend, so as to not accuse you I will simply ask: are you unwilling or incapable of actually discussing this issue in a reasonable manner? Are you unwilling or incapable of understanding the text?
Now, clearly you are condemning rape and slavery but upon what premise do you do so? Please recognize that if you have no premise then your condemnation is merely emotive and thus, meaningless.

Tyler Durden

Oh I understand the text quite well. I have several justifications for condemning rape, slavery and mass genocide, but I’ll leave you with the basic principles of humanism, the tennants of LaVeyan Satanism, the framework of societal ethics for every First World nation on the planet, and the Platinum Rule. Have fun with those.

Ken Ammi

Well, I am afraid that you do not understand the text especially as you, et al., avoid the text’s actual reference to an actual rape and the actual criminal punishment which results. Now, via your supposed justifications for condemnation (including LaVeyan Satanism which approves of murder) are you thereby asserting that ethics are absolute?

Cdesign Proponentsists

nice ad hominem

Ken Ammi

Friend, that is a conclusion: please show your work when you accuse someone. Also, by the way, you imply that you are holding me to standards of logic, truth and ethics but upon what premise do you do so?

Cdesign Proponentsists

the same as you, it’s no different for you.

Ken Ammi

Oh, so you are a Christian then: that is surprising to learn.

Cdesign Proponentsists

nope, you have nothing special you have the same starting point.

Ken Ammi

Friend, that is what I am asking: what is your starting point?

Cdesign Proponentsists

the same as yours

Ken Ammi

Well, we have already been down that road and it ends in a dead-end for you. It is clear that you recognize that your worldview offers no premise for truth, logic and ethics and yet, you continue demanding that people adhere to truth, logic and ethics. Your worldview leaves you without the ability to even condemn anything at all—and the implied truth and ethics which comes with doing so. Even though you cannot premise these, you still act and speak as if you can but that is because you were created in God’s image and thus, carry within you His law in your heart—as the Bible puts it.

Cdesign Proponentsists

that is just an assertion that you can’t back up. Please demonstrate it to be the case.

Ken Ammi

Well, interestingly that has been my ongoing point to you: you are merely making assertions and when I repeatedly ask for your premises you generically and erroneously claim that they are the same as mine. However, your worldview is not my own so your assertion is not the case at the outset. Thus, you have proven my point yourself regarding that “your worldview offers no premise for truth, logic and ethics…”

Cdesign Proponentsists

avoiding now, lol.

Ken Ammi

I know that you are avoiding yet, let us review: I asked, time and again, “what is your starting point?” you claimed, time and again, “the same as yours.” Now, I noted that “you recognize that your worldview offers no premise for truth, logic and ethics…you were created in God’s image and thus, carry within you His law in your heart—as the Bible puts it.” You asked me to “demonstrate it to be the case” but then since you claimed, time and again, that your starting point is the same as mine then, by definition, you agree with me. Why are you asking me to demonstrate that with which you already agree?

Cdesign Proponentsists

you can continue to avoid if you like.

Ken Ammi

My sentiments exactly, friend. Now, since we both know what you are avoiding, what is it that I am supposed to be avoiding?

Cdesign Proponentsists

yawn

Ken Ammi

Well, friend you have gone from one liners to one word. Look, I understand that it can be frustrating to recognize that your worldview fails before it even begins but the best course of action is to reconsider this fact (as you clearly have) and dump it.

Cdesign Proponentsists

yawn… smh.

Ken Ammi

Well, at least we see that when you are confronted with the utter failure of your worldview you mock and continue on as if nothing happened, “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened”―Winston Churchill

Cdesign Proponentsists

My worldview is fine it’s realistic unlike yours

Ken Ammi

I am afraid that you are stuck in a circle. When you saw that your worldview failed to even provide premise for truth, logic and ethics you claim that your premise is the same as mine. I proved that such is not the case and now you that they our worldviews are different. Now, how do you know that your worldview is realistic, how do you know that mine is not and how does any of this matter to an accidentally and temporarily existing hairless ape whose thoughts are random bio-chemical neural reactions which pooled together by accident?

Cdesign Proponentsists

yawn… you have no argument, just give it up.

Ken Ammi

Why are you so unwilling to answer simple questions?

Cdesign Proponentsists

still no argument, lol

Ken Ammi

Friend, as I have done here with you I obviously give people tons of time and opportunity to engage in reasoned discourse. It is quite evidence that you are simply unfamiliar with how such issues are discussed. Also, the focus of your problem is your worldview which fails before it begins which is why you have yet to begin engaging the issue.

Tyler Durden

You can be as afraid as you like, unfortunately for you I am able to recognize that there are several different ways that the Bible deals with rape depending on the circumstance of the rape, who was raped, and if YHWH commanded it.
Now as to your blatant lie about LaVeyan Satanism, our unholy book explicitly forbids rape and murder _*_in all circumstances. Unlike yours. I can cite you the page number if you need to look them up. If you’re going to do something as unbelievably moronic as say LaVeyan Satanism approves of murder you better cite chapter and verse, because your god told you *”Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness”, remember?

Ken Ammi

Well friend, I provided you specific biblical citations to which you reply with vague assertions without quotations nor citations—and then ask me for cite chapter and verse to the satanic bible, which is rather ironic.
Now, you seem to be condemning rape yet, upon what premise do you do so?

Please read the chapter “On the Choice of a Human Sacrifice” you will note the interplay of symbol and actual as “you have every right to (symbolically) destroy them” and/but “if your curse provokes their actual annihilation, rejoice.” Also, you may be aware that LaVey placed a destruction curse upon Sam Brody, LaVey’s girlfriend Jayne Mansfield’s attorney. This resulted in, both, Brody and Mansfield dying a brutal death in a car “accident.”

Tyler Durden

You do know that magic and curses are not real, right? The reason I asked you to cite the Satanic Bible was that you blatantly lied about it’s contence and said that it approves of murder. Your inability to understand metaphor and hyperbole when the Satanic Bible discusses imaginary things like magical curses does not excuse your slander. I thought Satan was the Father of Lies? Seems like Christians have to lie about the opposition quite often to preserve their fairytale.

Ken Ammi

Well friend you asked me to provide a citation and I did so along with quotations. You clearly see that I was right and so you now illogically move the goalpost by telling me that it is your subjective-personal interpretation that the statements are “metaphor and hyperbole.” You may be aware that when LaVey’s girlfriend Jane Mansfield’s son was mauled by a lion LaVey gathered up his group and petitioned their “brother Satan” as a personal being for healing. He also thinks that he caused her death by accidentally cutting a photo of her across her neck. His statements and actions, not mine. Now, you are clearly implying absolute standards of truth, logic and ethics but upon what premise do you do so?

Tyler Durden

There’s no moving of the goalposts, the introduction to the Satanic Bible clearly states that magic and demons are used as metaphor. Your failure to comprehend what has been plainly stated is not my problem and is still not an excuse for your dishonesty and slander.
My absolute standard for truth is Yog-Sothoth, the All-In-One, the Gate, who encompasses all time and space and comprises all knowledge. You have to borrow from my worldview to even receive revalations from your pretend deity, and as we know that all gods humans worship are merely extensions of Yog-Sothoth that enable it to interact with the space and time it contains if you deny this you are denying the truth in your unrighteousness.

Ken Ammi

Well friend, if he were still amongst us I would tell you to take it up with LaVey himself as to why his book “clearly states that magic and demons are used as metaphor” but then the petitions his “brother Satan” as a personal being—his words and actions, not mine. Now, you asked for a citation and quotation, I provided both and your subjective interpretation is just that. By the way, how do you metaphorically cause someone’s death?
So do you claim that H.P. Lovecraft was divinely inspired? So, do you attend a Yog-Sothothian congregation?

And that, as they say, was that.

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