Are the fallen angels in 2 Peter 2:4 that are in chains of darkness the Watchers or Nephilim, and how do they compare to Satan and his angels that fell? was a question to which a certain Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk replied and which led to the following discussion
Hi friend, First of all the watchers is non other then the same fallen angels that fell with Satan-they disguise themselves and called them even elders-when they deceived Cain’s descendants, when they tricked Jared- father of Enoch that was taken up, that was just a lie invented so Satan can hide his involvement- I did a study on this in my space- unlearn the lies of religion-The lie of the watchers exposed. Now, those that was bound up is both- those who slept with the woman and their off spring and this was after the flood, Satan ask for a 10th of the angels to be left with him because how will he mislead the people if he is all by himself.
So the Father allowed the 10th of the spirits to stay with him and the rest was bound up-Ref book of Jubelees, The secrets of Enoch: 10, 3rd book of Adam and Eve,
I, Ken Ammi, replied
Well, “Watchers” is just a general 2nd Temple Era aka for Malakim/Angels thus yes, it include, “the same fallen angels that fell” but it wasn’t “with Satan” since he, a Cherub not an Angel, fell first (Gen 3 timeline) and they thereafter (Gen 6 timeline).
No indication “they disguise themselves” nor that they exclusively mated with “Cain’s descendants.”
Jude and 2 Peter 2 tell us about that “those who slept with the woman” but nothing about “their off spring” nor that it “was after the flood” even if it was.
1/3 were cast down by Satan and we can’t know if that’s “a 10th.”
1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah, see my book, “In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.”
Also, see my book, “The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts.”
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B071NW4F4W/allbooks
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
hi friend there was no second lot that was cast out of heaven there was only one war-and they all were cast down. that second incident was to sow confusion, this revelation I got on the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to understand everything from the beginning- those book , well some of them is vital to the understanding of the old testament. You see Genesis is not complete in the bible that we know, a lot of information is missing, but it is all part and parcel to sow confusion and to make these new age which is actually old age religions believable. And ye the book of Enoch has been changed so much and all those sinful put in to make astronomy and hell real, but if you know the laws of the Father, you would know the difference from stuff that was added or left out- they corrupted those books just as they did the bible.
Ken Ammi
Indeed, “there was no second lot that was cast out of heaven.”
But as for, “there was only one war-and they all were cast down” well, the, “war,” as per Rev 12, is a post-Jesus’ ascension event.
I’m unaware to what you’re referring by, “second incident.”
As for, “Genesis is not complete in the bible that we know, a lot of information is missing” a lot is missing from every single book ever written by anyone, by definition.
You asserted, “they corrupted…the bible” but who are, “they” and what makes you assert that?
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
I am referring to Satan’s seed- the explanation would be because of the translating from one language to another that’s why there are differences but people that time where very intelligent, but we just have to look at Daniel 7, he talks about the little horn that would come to change times and the laws, but they did a lot more than that- the pope changed the 10 Commandment, the Sabbath day and the Father’s calender, The Vatican’s library sit with a lot of books that would give us lots of proof of the old days. But what I find interesting is the spreading of the lie that those lost books is not scriptural but they give us a more clear understanding of what happened-after the fall, before and after the flood, the book of Enoch of course have been corrupted. But I think I understand now why Satan would want to hide that, cause we are in the last days and it becomes “like in the days of Noah” by having the people in the dark about their doings- people can easily be dooped with the aliens and other strange beings,making their lie more believable,
Ken Ammi
Satan’s seed refers to those who commit ungodly actions, the great news is that they can repent.
How do you know what’s in the Vatican’s library?
It’s been the “last days” for two millennia already.
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
He’s seed is also a literal seed, not only those who choose not to do what is right, I believe looking at their history of being in charge of information, they have all the necessary scrolls that is so called lost because of the huge fire that burned the library in Alexandrea, yes last days but people did not look or understand the prophecies cause there is certain things that must happen first, just like now they already preaching the end is here and “Jesus is coming and there is a lot of prophecies not being fulfilled yet.
Ken Ammi
I’m unsure what makes you think that, “He’s seed is also a literal” because, “their history of being in charge of information.”
I don’t follow, “yes last days but…certain things that must happen first”: first of when?
Okay so, you don’t know what’s in the Vatican’s library.
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
No, I just know they have a lot of information stored up there, that would make things very clear for us in many ways.
Ken Ammi
Okay then, so we’re back to “But as for, ‘there was only one war-and they all were cast down’ well, the, ‘war,’ as per Rev 12, is a post-Jesus’ ascension event” and “I’m unaware to what you’re referring by, ‘second incident’” and so are you since you appealed to sources but now you note that you don’t know if those sources contain the data you turned to them for containing.
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
the first time they were thrown out was before the creation of the world, and that is explained in the first book of Adam and Eve, in the book of Enoch, where it explains about the fallen angels that taught the people forbidden knowledge, and slept with the women, Satan’s name is mentioned but not as Satan but as Gad’re’al. And he tried to hide it and make as if that angel was insignificant, and make another angel the look like he is the chief that decided to rebel. So as the angel told Adam, if he would have stayed longer, Satan would have corrupted all angels-that’ how powerful his power of deception was. So, the angels that was fighting Satan and his followers saw the repercussions of disobedience, so why would they want to sin after what they have seen happened and loose their light as punishment for being separated from the Almighty’s glory? That is why the influence of sin was removed from them. Therefore the second incident of the “watchers” is a fabricated incident to take the focus away from Satan.
Ken Ammi
Friend, you don’t seem to be interacting with my comments but are just bypassing them to keep asserting things.
For example, “the first time they were thrown out was before the creation of the world” for which there’s literally zero Biblical indication.
And you surely know that since you appeal to folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah.
The First Book of Adam and Eve claims that when God created Adam, He commanded the Angels to worship Adam so that book is trash.
1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore, see my book, “In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.”
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
My friend, every book was corrupted but that does not mean some is “trash” like you said, if you know the attributes of the Father, you would know how to judge the books according to scripture and his attributes, Satan was not gonna leave the truth laying around, and yes for the most part of Enoch- it is trash cause you can clearly see the “hell” agenda being forced to be believed and the “heavens and the souls” the “folklore” like you describe have the missing parts that should be in the old testament, and why that was also removed? to hide the truth about the beginning, how people spread, Adam and Eve were in the garden for a hundred years before the fall, Satan and his fallen angels sleeping with the women, the earlier life of Noah-his birth, Abraham’s birth and history before Isaac, the full story of Isaac and Esau, the fact that after the flood they discovered cities that was of before, the timeline of before and after the flood, just so many things that was kept from us to have a better picture of what happened- why because to push their new age religions and alien agendas.
Ken Ammi
What makes you think that book was “corrupted”?
Since I know “the attributes of the Father” then I “know how to judge” a book that claims He commanded Angels to worship a human.
Well, sure, you can refer to “for the most part of [1] Enoch” as “trash” but I referred to The First Book of Adam and Eve as such.
So now you claim that God failed since there are things that should have been in the OT but He couldn’t get them therein and you figured out those things that He missed.
But it worse than that, you claim it was in the OT but was “removed”—for which you have zero evidence, of course—so now God couldn’t manage to keep His revealed inspired word in the canon and mere humans defeated God.
Bottom line, you are relying on folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah that make non-sense of theology proper and contradict the Bible. So, why do you do that? There’s literally zero indication that those late-comers provided us any reliable data.
I’m unsure how you so very specifically know “Adam and Eve were in the garden for a hundred years before the fall.”
There’s literally zero indication of “Satan…sleeping with the women.”
There’s also zero (non-late-comer sci-fi folklore) indication that “Noah-his birth” had anything to do with Angels.
So, when you wrote your concluding list it shows me more and more that you are unable to discern God’s Holy Word from whatever it is: historical fiction, folklore, frauds, delusions, etc.
You seem to just read anything written by anyone at any time in any place of any genre and then mash it all together.
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
To be straight with you, if you believe in a trinity of 3 in one, there is no point trying to make you see, because you are still covered with the veil. I’m under the instruction and guidance of the Holy Spirit, so what Satan distorted and hid away- I am being shown it. You telling me I believe in folklore, but fist look at yourself Sir, believing you have a spirit, your going to heaven or hell when you die, “Jesus” died on a cross, keeping easter, christmas, halloween etc, drinking blood and agreeing the Messiah was a sinner, is that not believing in frauds and fiction, delusions?
Ken Ammi
I should have guessed. Whenever a Christian makes assertion and I ask them to back those assertions but they realize that they can’t, they pull the gnostic card: they have received personal, private revelation and so as a convenient side product, anyone who disagrees with them is actually disagreeing with the Holy Spirit and they think they are so enlightened that they can’t even reveal the self-made cult’s secrets to those who aren’t initiated.
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
my friend that’s the truth unfortunately, the veil has to be lifted, and I can’t do it for you, as long as you look at these things with a human eye-well you will never get to understand the deeper secrets of the Kingdom. the truth is really plain and simple to see, but you have to start by going through the right channel, there is no short cuts to enlightenment. PS: I’m not a Christian there is a big difference,so please don’t judge me under the same comb. And it’s not a gnostic card that I pull, those books are not lies, they are riddled with lies just like the bible, but you need the Holy Spirit to show you but like I said the veil has to be lifted otherwise it’s useless.
Ken Ammi
That perfectly supports my point with the single exception that you’re not a Christian.
Now, since you already moved the goalpost from the context of this thread and have now moved it again by merely asserting, “riddled with lies just like the bible”: 1) how do you know they are lies, 2) what are the lies, and 3) what, on your worldview, is wrong with lying?
Also, what non-biblical “Holy Spirit”?
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
lying is one of the things the Father detest’s and believe me, I abhor it aswell- it was removed from the 10 commandments and replaced with false witness. Lies- meaning scripture has been changed and been replaced with lies to fit the belief system which is other commands, feast days, rituals, time keeping,sabbath day, calling amen, lead us into temptation is wrong, there is so many things, please feel free to scroll through my page- unlearn the lies of religion- I have already done study and revelation on some things, your welcome to have a look, and see, I just don’t make a statement without proof- that is biblical proof.
Ken Ammi
I asked, “what, on your worldview, is wrong with lying?” you denied being a Christian and stated, “lying is one of the things the Father detest’s” but what “Father”? And you didn’t reply to, “Also, what non-biblical ‘Holy Spirit’?”
Also, when you say, “I abhor it aswell” that doesn’t answer, “what, on your worldview, is wrong with lying?” since all you told me is your emotively subjective personal preference du jour based on hidden assumptions.
You generically asserted, “it was removed from the 10 commandments and replaced with false witness” but removed from what and when and how so?
Cara Paulsen-Van Niekerk
my friend, my world view? what good has lies brought the people? Do you liked being lied to? I’m not a Christian because the system don’t follow the biblical commands and laws, and if you really wanted to know or understand my reason for believing different, I suggest you have a look at my page-unlearn the lies of religion- with all the respect I don’t have the time to try and make the picture clear for you or make you understand, cause clearly you believe in something else/or you look at this trying to understand spiritual things with a worldly view-it will never work. The events of the world is rolling towards the final event, and in all seriousness, my focus is now on other things.
Ken Ammi
Well, they say that good lawyers only asks question for which they already know the answers so I do that sometimes for the sake of confirmation.
In this case, you have a whole page about “the lies of religion” but your proved that it’s whole premise is faulty or rather, being without a premise but only an vague emotively subjective assertion.
So, towards what final event?
That brought the discussion to and end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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