The following discussion took place due to the video, Days of Noah 33: The giant Nephilim – King Og of Bashan.
I, Ken Ammi, commented:
Friend, there are at least five things wrong with the statement “Days of Noah 33: The giant Nephilim – King Og of Bashan”:
1) It is fallacious to refer to the “Days of Noah” within the context of Nephilim since Jesus’ reference to the days of Noah is clearly just about people going about as business as usual while being unaware of coming judgement. And you can know that by reading the whole statement Jesus made and also the one He made in Luke 17 about how “it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
2) If you are referring to “giant Nephilim” because some English versions render the word “Nephilim” as “giants” so you are really saying “Nephilim Nephilim.”
3) But, if you are employing the un-defined subjective term giants to imply something about unusual height then such does not apply to Nephilim since we have no reliable physical description of them. Also, “giant” only implies something about unusual height as of modern times since the root of Nephilim—whether the Hebrew naphal, Aramaic naphiyla, or even Greek gigas (gigantes)—do not imply anything about unusual height.
4) “…Nephilim – King Og of Bashan” is erroneous since he was a Repha, not a Nephil.
5) Nor could Og have been a Nephilim since post-flood Nephilim is not a biblical teaching.
The video maker, who goes by the pseudonym The Protoevangelium and the days of Noah, replied:
Appreciate your input. I will provide my responses according to your numbers:
1) I agree with your synopsis of the days of Noah and the days of Lot in luke 17…however, I think there is deeper symbolism. Jesus was clearly aware of the genetic contamination before the flood, so for Him to refer to that era makes one wonder if He hasn’t concealed some deeper meaning…as He commonly did. I believe that He May have been giving a clue to the fact that there was dna corruption before the flood and there will be again when He returns. That’s my opinion.
2) the term “giant nephilim” May be redundant but it’s an eye catching title for those who do not know that nephilim are giants. By the way, I am not a Hebrew scholar and have never claimed to be.
3)I’m not sure how to answer this one? Even though we don’t know their exact sizes I believe there is enough evidence to suggest the nephilim were hybrid giants.
4)I believe that the raphaim are a type of nephilim as are the zanzummim, and the emims, and the anakims etc…their were many different giant Canaanite tribes which were all related…and in my opinion all fall under the generic category as “nephilim”.
5) I disagree that postflood nephilim is not a biblical concept. I believe that the Canaanite tribes that reference people like Og who was a “remnant of the giants” means that he was genetically related to the giants before the flood. This is why genesis 6 says there were nephilim on the earth…and also after that when the sons of god came into the daughters of men. “And also After that” meaning after that time period which was the era of the flood.
Much obliged, friend. I am pleased that you admit–;o)—that the only manner whereby to derive anything from Jesus specific points about the days of Noah and Lot within His own context is to “think there is deeper symbolism.”
But you bypassed the days of Lot when you write “Jesus was clearly aware of the genetic contamination before the flood, so for Him to refer to that era…” but you cannot build a case of that since, again, he also referenced the days of Lot and did so for the very same reason, within the very same context: unawareness and/or lack of concern for a coming judgment.
Did the flood have anything to do with Nephilim?
I also agree that terms such as “giant nephilim” are mere click-bait. But you first note that is “May be redundant” (actually, it is redundant) but then refer to “those who do not know that nephilim are giants” but again, you just wrote “those who do not know that nephilim are nephilim” or if not: what do you mean by the vague, generic, subjective, and un-defined English term “giants”?
We have no reliable physical description of Nephilim whatsoever so we not only “don’t know their exact sizes,” we do not even know if they were even one inch taller than average.
You “believe” Raphaim are a type of Nephilim but why? There is no such reliable statement in the entire Bible.
You are close but not close enough: Rephaim, Zanzummim, Emim, and Anakim are not Nephilim tribes rather, Zanzummim, Emim, and Anakim are Rephaim tribes. You may not realize it but you are quite right when you write of them being “giant Canaanite tribes” since biblically, when you use the term “giant” within that context, you are really saying “Rephaim Canaanite tribes” which is accurate.
Again, when you write of “Og who was a ‘remnant of the giants’ means that he was genetically related to the giants before the flood” you must keep in mind that the term giant there is Repha and until you can demonstrate that Repahim are related to Nephilim you cannot refer to him as being a Nephil.
Lastly, you say “on the earth…and also after that when the sons of god came into the daughters of men. ‘And also After that’ meaning after that time period which was the era of the flood” but why only quote those four words and stop only to add a commentary “which was the era of the flood” rather than just quoting the text referring to the flood?
Because it does not. That is v. 4 and the flood is not even mentioned until the very first time until v. 17. Yet, v. 4 tells you exactly to what days it is referring and that was “when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them” and when was that? Well, v. 1 tells us “when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them”—which could have been as early as when Adam and Eve’s children started having children. Yet, in any case, that is still all pre-flood.
A certain Jason Eachus chimed in with:
All of this should be taught in all Christian churches ….
The truth must be available.
If I may, all of this should be BIBLICALLY and ACCURATELY taught in all Christian churches.
A certain Shane Barnabi chimed in with:
Noah was a giant and had the bloodline,of the Anunnaki/Elohim…FRAGMENT OF THE BOOK OF NOAH
- And after some days my son Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became
pregnant by him and bore a son. 2. And his body was white as snow and red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair of his head †and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful†. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. 3. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and †conversed with† the Lord of righteousness. 4. And his father Lamech was afraid of him and fled, and came to his father Methuselah. 5. And he said unto him: ‘I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. 6. And it seems to me that he is not sprung from me but from the angels, and I fear that in his days a wonder may be wrought on the earth. 7. And now, my father, I am here to petition thee and implore thee that thou mayest go to Enoch, our father, and learn from him the truth, for his dwelling-place is amongst the angels.’ 8. And when Methuselah heard the words of his son, he came to me to the ends of the earth; for he had heard that I was there, and he cried aloud, and I heard his voice and I came to him. And 1 said unto him: ‘Behold, here am I, my son,
Makes me think this is true because, they chose Noah as the soul survivor of the seed…I’m just adding this, not because I believe it, but because it’s a possibility, right now there is no definitive proof of anything…but maybe if we all share our thoughts and research maybe we can figure it out.
Indeed, I am aware that down through the years many people wrote tall tales: what of it?
The Protoevangelium and the days of Noah:
I did read this once a few years back. It definitely brought confusion because I felt that the evidence including the Bible pointed to Noah being a pure adamite and NOT of the nephilim seed… which is why God spared Noah. This would contradict that which raises questions of its authenticity? But ultimately you are right in that… there is much that we still do not fully know.
In short, any and all concepts of post-flood Nephilim contradict the Bible.
A certain John H Baldwin chimed in with:
The Nephilim were the race of Giants that were on earth before the flood. The Repha were the race of giants that were conceived in the cities of the plains after the flood. That was the reason why Yahshua gave the two examples. The Nephilim in ” Days of Noah” was the reason for the flood.
The Repha in the days of Lot was the reason for the destruction of the cities of the plains. Sodom and Gomorrah were two of the four cities destroyed. Zoar the fifth city that Lot and his two daughters ran to was spared from destruction because Lot was afraid to go to the Mountains because he knew the Repha was living there.
The reason the two angels were sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plains had nothing to do with Lot, it had to do with destroying the Repha living there before they could consolidate another race of giants on earth as had been done before the flood. That is why Yahshua mentioned both examples, one before and one after the flood. One in the time of Noah and one in the time of Lot.
If the two Angel had not destroyed the cities of the plains, the Rapha living in the land of Canaan would have been too numerous in the earth for the Hebrew Israelite to deal with and defeat. Thus, altering Yah’s plan to settle the Nation of Israel in the land of Canaan which he had promised to the seed of Abraham.
The people living in the land of Israel now are not the seed of Abraham. They are descendants of Gomer, who was the son of Japheth Genesis 10:3. Although they say they Jews, they are not, Revelation 2:9 and 3:9. They are gentiles, Jewish converts, descendants of Japheth, living in the tents of Shem, Genesis 9:25-27.
The real Jews of the tribe of Judah are still in the land of their captivity. Where they have been enslaved, oppressed, and are still scattered among the gentile nations, Leviticus 26:33.
Be aware that when you refer to both Nephilim and Rephaim as giants (whatever that means) you are using a word that was taken from the Greek LXX but those two very different words cannot mean the same thing and they do not: “giants” is not a translation but a sloppy rendering.
Indeed, Nephilim lived before the flood, Rephaim lived after the flood–and there is no relation between them.
There is no indication that Rephaim were the reason for the destruction of the cities of the plains nor indication that Lot was afraid to go to the Mountains because he knew the Rephaim was there.
But when you say “The reason the two angels were sent to destroy…had to do with destroying the Repha” then they failed since Rephaim lived long after that event.
There is also no indication that Rephaim sought to “consolidate another race of giants on earth as had been done before the flood.”
Thus, since Nephilim and Rephaim have utterly nothing to do with each other, it is not why “Yahshua mentioned both examples”: He is very clear that His reason, His context, was examples of judgments whilst those to be judge where unaware.
John H Baldwin:
You know, some people have no clue what they’re saying and in their ignorance, they tend to make fools of themselves, like you’re doing. During their visit with Abraham, the three men warned him that God’s judgment was about to fall upon Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18:20–21; 19:12–13)
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. These passages are telling you that the same circumstances that occurred in the days of Noah reoccurred in the days of Lot. If you do not understand what happened to cause the flood in Noah’s day then how would you be expected to understand why the four cities of the plains were destroyed or why Lot was afraid to run to the mountains preferring to go to the fifth and the smaller City of Zoar instead. I know it never crossed your mind what the two incidences had in common. That is why you are ignorant and void of understanding.
Friend, I am unsure why you decided to go full blown worldly: if you cannot handle such discussions in a graceful manner then please cease from replying let you fall into the condemnation of “whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22). You also play mind-reader which is putting yourself in the place of God—please repent.
Fortunately, Jesus Himself told us what the two incidences had in common: He specifically offered them both as example of people being unaware of coming judgment.
John H Baldwin:
The wicked are always offended by the truth, that is why Yahshua, was stoned and hung on a tree. The people of his day just like today are offended by the truth because the truth does not fit their traditions. If the truth offends you then so be that.
I have no idea what you are talking about, friend, I am discussing these issues and if you do not like being corrected then maybe stop posting online.
John H Baldwin:
LOL don’t you think I know that you have no idea what I am talking about. It is way over your head.
I am unsure why you are being a worldly jerk but feel free to check out the many books I have written about these issues, I will be glad to cut you a deal on the price: https://truefreethinker.com/no-end-books-publications
John H Baldwin:
LOL. If you’re unsure, maybe it’s because I am not the jerk.
But the evidence is that it is you stating things such as “you have no idea what I am talking about. It is way over your head.”
John H Baldwin:
And you still don’t, it still is but keep selling those books.
Unsure what you mean about book. But if you have read any on these subjects then please substantiate your claims rather than playing the gnostic who knows the truth but keeps it secret.
Well, that ended it since no one replied anymore.
Why oh why is it that I get treated the worse by Atheists and post-flood Nephilim believers (perhaps because both of them are believing in falsehoods).
For more details, see my relevant books.
A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.