Nephilim discussion with some jerks on Goliath being a quasi-divine giants, 8 of 9

Continuing a discussion that took place during a live chat to a video by Rob Rowe, with whom I have had a discussion (see this video).

Picking up where we left off in the previous segment.

Kile myers
Hell is just another word used for the “underworld.” Hell isn’t the lake of fire

Ken Ammi @Kile myers
Tartarus would have been understood by his Greek audience as correlating to the Abyss.

Kile myers
“Hades” in some translations

Ken Ammi@Kile myers
It drives me nuts that the words “heaven” and “hell” have been used to render VARIOUS Hebrew and Greek words.

Ken Mc Cracken
Well there are problems with that interpretation in Genesis 6 itself as I mentioned earlier. Again left their estate is subject to interpretation.

Brendan O’Brien
Different words are used but the Bible delineates between a general underworld wherein fallen angelic spirits pass in and out and Tartarus where the originally offending angels are banished

Kile myers
Heaven and Hell are fine to use, it’s when we mash them all into one meaning

Brendan O’Brien
One is named in revelation

Ken Ammi @Ken Mc Cracken
Just as a historical fact: the Angel view is the original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jews and Christians alike–I wrote a whole book just chronicling that.

Kile myers
I realized Hell and the lake of fire aren’t the same when I read in revelation thst hell is cast into the lake of fire

Ken Ammi @Kile myers
Indeed. I wrote a book titled, “What Does the Bible Say About Heaven and Hell? A Styled Superumology and Infernology” just to dig into that.
In any case, 2 Peter 2 provides a chronology of examples of judgment and places the sin of Angels to pre-Sodom days which fits the Gen 6 timeline.

Ken Mc Cracken
Yes it’s a difficult passage in Genesis 6 but there are many indications in Genesis 6 itself that it’s about humans and not hybrid products.

Kile myers
All passages referring to giants seem to just be talking about either armies that are much bigger than Israel’s or just really big people

Ken Ammi
One issue is that Angels are also called man/men and that the Bible’s focus always and instantly returns to humans no matter where else it temporarily went.

Kile myers
The word angel has multiple meanings

Ken Ammi
Just keep in mind that “big” just like “tall” or “great stature” is compared to the average Israelite male who in those days was 5.0-5.3 ft.

Brendan O’Brien @Ken Mc Cracken
Read in its entirety and from my understanding of primary sources it is difficult to escape the reference to human and angelic offspring for which the angels were banished to Tartarus

Ken Ammi
Such is why context is king ;o)

Kile myers
The second person of the Holy Trinity The Son of God is called “The Angel of the LORD” in the old testament in places

Ken Ammi
There is only a one time fall/sin of Angles in the Bible so if Gen 6 is not it then, pray tell, when was it?

Brendan O’Brien @Ken Ammi
I believe the reference to Goliath in the dead sea scrolls puts him at around 7’5″; it should be remembered that the Philistines were non-semitic in origin

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi
which of your little brochures talk about David’s might men and their mandate to destroy the last of the giants?

Ken Ammi
In the LXX & Dead Sea Scrolls (& in Josephus) he’s just shy of 7 ft., in the later manuscript, the Masoretic, he’s just shy of 10 ft.

Ken Mc Cracken
Brendan that may be correct. It seems to me there are indications in Genesis 6 that this is not the problem but human sin and wickedness is.

Kile myers
People like the big show from wwe or most basketball players would of been considered giants like goliath back then

Ken Ammi
Indeed, whatever the Angels and Nephilim did, it effected humans and the focus in on humans thereafter.

Brendan O’Brien @Ken Mc Cracken
I would say it’s no mutually exclusive

Ken Ammi
Indeed & the tallest NBA player doesn’t quite make it to 8 ft–reliably, Goliath was just shy of 7 ft.

Ken Mc Cracken
Satan was fallen before Genesis 6 Ken. Revelation describes a war in heaven implying rebellion insurrectuin primarily.

Rev. Elation
hahaha @ken saying “reliably”

Brendan O’Brien @Ken Ammi & @Ken Mc Cracken
I had posed this much earlier but do both of you believe the nacash of Genesis was the later Satan encountered by Christ in the desert?

Kile myers
Lucifer moat likely fell either sometime after Adam and Eve or before. it would make sense if Lucifer was booted after the garden

Ken Ammi
I have been prevented from posting by one of the moderators until now.

Ken Ammi
Guess what, I got this message, “You have been placed in timeout by the owner of this video or a moderator.”

Chaos Kampf
wasn’t me

Chaos Kampf
I enjoy your nonsense

Ken Ammi @Ken Mc Cracken
I think Satan’s fall is recorded in Gen 3, the Angels’ in Gen 6. Satan is not an Angel, he’s a Cherub. Rev 12 has the war in heaven AFTER Jesus’ ascension.

Kile myers
Cherubs are angels lol, they are the highest rank of the angelic beings

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi
doesn’t know Revelation is apocalyptic

Ken Ammi
That’s a category error.

Brendan O’Brien
Yes, part of the divine counsel

Chaos Kampf
No it isn’t a category error.

A certain No More Sea commented the following @Kile myers
there appears at a deeper look there are distinctions as Heiser makes between angels and cherubim.

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi
you as an author is category error. probably more contemporary text evidences you ignore.

Ken Ammi
By definition: Angles, Cherubim & Seraphim are different categories of being with different job titles, different job functions and don’t look like each other.

Brendan O’Brien @Ken Ammi
Yes, they are all referred to as Elohim

No More Sea @Ken Ammi
there may be some overlap in cherubim and seraphim. One is Mesopotamian and the other Egyptian. They come from different cultures within ANE but have similar functions at times.

Chaos Kampf
William Barrick gives critics the idea of Goliath having been 6’9. In Targum Jonathan he’s described as 9’9. The writer of the Septuagint was most likely demythologizing Goliath.

Interestingly, I base my view that Goliath was just shy of 7 ft. on the earliest and majority evidence, Chaos appeals to the Targum Jonathan which dates to, get this, the 600s AD and attempts to mythologizing the Septuagint since Chaos wants “giants” to be very “tall.”

We will pick up from here in the next segment.

For more details, see my books about Angles, demons, Nephilim, “giants,” etc.

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