Nephilim discussion with some jerks on Goliath being a quasi-divine giants, 5 of 9

Continuing a discussion that took place during a live chat to a video by Rob Rowe, with whom I have had a discussion (see this video).

 

Picking up where we left off in the previous segment.

 

Ken Ammi

The debate in which I presented a 15 min opening on the evil report is here: https://truefreethinker.com/video-tj-steadman-vs-ken-ammi-nephilim-debate

 

Chaos Kampf

Because Goliath is a descendant of the Anakim, who are identified as Nephilim. End of story.

 

It is fascinating that to Chaos, that is the end of the story since that is actually were I began and they only identification of Anakim with Nephilim is, you guessed it, in the false evil report.

 

Chaos Kampf

The psychologizing and mental gymnastics are unbelievable. Heiser himself has already responded to these kinds of objections; they fail on exegetical and linguistic grounds.

 

I will end up comment on the Heiser issues as well.

 

Ken Ammi @ChristThinker

Double how so?

 

Brendan O’Brien @Ken Ammi

See Deuteronomy 2 and Num 13:32-33

 

Ken Ammi @Brendan O’Brien

Note that Moses utterly ignores the claim about Nephilim in Deut 1. What about Deut 2?

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

So the men Moses had sent to explore the land, who returned and made the whole community grumble against him by spreading a bad report about it— – Numbers 14:36 SAME REPORT SAME PEEPS

 

Ken Ammi

FYI: “Rebuttal to Dr. Michael Heiser’s ‘All I Want for Christmas is Another Flawed Nephilim Rebuttal'”: https://www.academia.edu/44935973/Rebuttal_to_Dr_Michael_Heiser_s_All_I_Want_for_Christmas_is_Another_Flawed_Nephilim_Rebuttal_

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

Indeed, God rebuked them.

 

Chaos Kampf

Moses doesn’t ignore it lmao. He acknowledges and tells the Israelites their cowards, and says to have faith in God. Notice how he doesn’t actually correct them on the supposed lie?

 

1) It was not a formal debate, 2) God rebuked them, 3) he utterly ignores their main point—I would imagine he just considered it utterly meaninglessly made up stuff and was more interested about the real-life on the ground issues such as having to deal with actual (100%) human Anakim.

 

Chaos Kampf

If the Israelites were still believing in the lie at that point, it’s strange that Moses wouldn’t think to correct them about it, especially after what happened to the previous reporters.

 

We know not if “the Israelites were still believing in the lie at that point” or whether Moses was just relating part of their recent history. But what is fascinating is that post-flood Nephilim believers are still believing in the lie today, all of these millennia later.

And that act of siding with unfaithful disloyal spies who attempted to get God’s people to doubt Him and disobey Him seems to have spiritual warfare implications since those who are really into post-flood Nephilim seem to instantly ruin their witness by being instantly worldly jerks.

This has been my ongoing experience with very, very, many, many of them: I am treated the worse online by Atheists and post-flood Nephilim believers.

 

ChristThinker @Ken Ammi

Sorry I misspoke. Apologies.

 

Ken Mc Cracken

I do think Michael Heiser has some good insights but I have some problems with some of his views.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

even the fact that you use the kjv term “evil” shows your level of theological knowledge and linguistic error. you use the term emotionally instead of seeing what was happening.

 

Ken Ammi @ChristThinker

No worries. This is why such iron sharpening iron discussions are important.

 

ChristThinker

I misremembered the Samuel passage lol

 

Ken Ammi @Ken Mc Cracken

I always say that just because he is credentialed and experienced and insightful–and a cool dude–does not make him infallible.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

do you get the point? the bad report was saying ‘we can’t win’ and why bad? cuz God says go. they just killed off all these giants on the way, it was faithless.

 

ChristThinker

I would still challenge the idea that it was the giant part of the report that was evil. The texts never seem to suggest that.

 

Chaos Kampf

It’s moronic. It’s literally eisegesis.

 

Projecting again.

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

Not sure to what you’re referring since we were discussing the specific Hebrew term/concept Nephilim but you referred to the vague, generic, subjective & undefined English term giants.

 

Brendan O’Brien

The evil is the lack of faith in God’s plan – which is what caused the desert wanderings after the Exodus

 

Chaos Kampf

Gigantes is pretty unambiguous.

 

Ken Ammi @Brendan O’Brien

That’s the premise but the content is that they made 4 claims about which the whole entire rest of the Bible knows nothing at all.

 

Chaos Kampf

At least as far as the Greek goes.

 

Chaos Kampf

Gigantes in Greek myths were usually very tall.

 

Gigantes literally, exclusively, and simply means “earth-born.” That it is applies to “very tall” people/beings in Greek myth is irrelevant.

 

Ken Mc Cracken

I agree Ken. I find he does have some good insights. I find the view of human angelic offspring problematic and replacingd fallen angels with the souls of deceased offspring as unclean spirits odd.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

dude. not all nephites were giants. they werent all huge. or the others who had this same genetic material. and , English words are ok for English people. maybe you prefer ‘short challenged

 

I took a moment to reply to someone discussing fallen Angels and demons.

 

Ken Ammi @Ken Mc Cracken

For a biblical view of what demons are, search online for “Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?”

 

Kile myers

There being giants are clear, those giants being half angel mutants is not biblical

 

Ken Ammi

Oh, by “giants” you mean “huge” of course, both of those words are subjective. The issue has been that they made 4 claims about which the whole entire rest of the Bible knows nothing at all.

 

Brendan O’Brien

I would trust the judgement of someone who is versed in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

Dunning Kruger much?

 

I am not aware of that person but discerned that the Rev. was going the way of Chaos so that I would soon have to ignore the Rev. as well—sadly.

 

Brendan O’Brien

The Gigantomachy is possibly a corrupted version of biblical events

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

If you are going to go the way of Chaos Kampf and don’t want to actually discuss the issues, just say so.

 

Chaos Kampf

Lol yes Ken is a living example of the Dunning Kruger effect. The Messianic Jew version of Aron Ra.

 

FYI: Aron Ra is a militant Atheist.

 

Ken Mc Cracken

I’ll have a look Ken. Heiser overemphasises angels in Genesis 6 when the whole emphasis is really on the wickedness of man there.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

if you really don’t know about all the info, then you shouldn’t embarrass yourself by claiming you know the things that you don’t know. you just look petty. and ignorant. it’s a bad look.

 

Chaos Kampf

I actually do discuss the issues, I bring up verses and you ignore them.

 

Interestingly, I commented on every verse—even by proxy after I stopped replying to Chaos and others brought up the same ones.

 

Brendan O’Brien

The sons of gods and men reference is tough to interpret any other way but the way Heiser does

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

I can see we are almost done here, how sad. Look at the chat: I presented MANY evidences & have asked for data when I’m told I’m missing some.

 

Chaos Kampf

Your methodology is crank, stupid, unfalsifiable, unverifiable, laced with red herrings, non-sequirturs and eisgetical fallacies.

 

We will pick up from here in the next segment.

 

For more details, see my books about Angles, demons, Nephilim, “giants,” etc.

 

 

 

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