Nephilim discussion with some jerks on Goliath being a quasi-divine giants, 4 of 9

Continuing a discussion that took place during a live chat to a video by Rob Rowe, with whom I have had a discussion (see this video).

 

Picking up where we left off in the previous segment.

 

Ken Ammi @Evan J. Fish

Well, as I noted: I am not assuming, I literally spoke for 15 minutes on that alone during an opening statement to a debate.

They made 4 claims about which the whole entire Bible knows nothing at all.

 

Evan J. Fish

length of time talking about a thing doesn’t make me believe you any more or less, nor should it. And I can see how their evil was mistrusting God and his promises, and I need not add any more to them

 

That is a bit amusing. The only thing “length of time” denotes is just how many problems there are with the evil report.

 

Ken Ammi

Num 13 contains two report: the first is accepted as is, the second contradicts the first, embellishes it, was labeled evil, & is not supported by any other text or even verse.

 

Chaos Kampf

Except Deut 1:28

 

This has come up before so now, let us read that beginning with v. 27, “ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the LORD hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us. Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there.”

Moses is relating that about which they complained, “murmured” and notes their disloyal faithlessness, “the LORD hated us, he hath brought…to destroy us.” He then emphasizes the discouraging nature of the rebuked spies, and relays their assertions, “The” generic, “people is greater and taller” hyperbolically, “cities…walled up to heaven” and having seen Anakim: such is why I noted that even when Moses relays the evil report, he utterly ignore the assertion about Nephilim. He noted Amorites and Anakim but treats Nephilim as they deserve to be treated: ignored post-flood since they no longer existed.

 

Evan J. Fish

it’s not contradicted in any other verse either, saying there were not giants or things in the land. The evil was in not trusting God after everything He had already done (and that was more than enoug

 

Chaos Kampf

In fact he confirms their height in Deut 2:10 by comparing them to the height of the Emites. Moses confirms the report lol

 

Again, and again, I am discussing “Nephilim” but people want to keep referring to “giants.” This leads them to think, or so it seems to me, that any and all references in their English version to “giants” is a reference to Nephilim but that is only the case in two cases, every other time it refers to Repha/Rephaim (and it never implies anything about height: usual or unusual).

Thus, the issue is post-flood Nephilim and Chaos is obsessing about “their height” but who is “their”: Nephilim, “giants” or whom? Well, Deut 2:10 reads, “Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims” thus, no reference to Nephilim and Emim and Anakim being “tall.”

 

Ken Ammi

The 1st/as is report notes whom they saw: Anakim, Amalekites, Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, Canaanites. The evil report embellished that by adding Nephilim.

 

Chaos Kampf

There is no proof of that

 

Such is what happens when people do not bother interacting with the narrative of Numbers 13 but only focus on v. 33—and thus, do so uncritically.

 

Chaos Kampf

You are literally making things up. That can’t be defended exegetically.

 

Ken Ammi

The narrative specifies where those people groups lived, the evil report inserts Nephilim but cannot specify where they were: missing data point.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

You’re confused about why it was called ‘evil’

 

ChristThinker @Chaos Kampf

Control yourself among the Nephilim deniers lol

 

The issue of me being a “Nephilim denier” will come up again—it is just another misguided assertion, of course.

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

How so?

 

Chaos Kampf

Oh dear you are a terrible exegete.

 

That was a world-class textbook classic case of projection.

 

Ken Ammi

The 1st report spoke well of the land, the evil report contradicted that.

 

Ken Ammi

The spies supposedly saw the most awe inspiring beings on the planet but when they get back to camp the very 2st thing they mention is fruit. The evil report even fails the common sense test.

 

Ken Ammi

The 2nd thing they talk about is the land–not the most awe inspiring beings on the planet, really?

 

Chaos Kampf

LOL Your making an argument based on the order in which they report things?

 

Well, sure: it is called chronology and assists in informing us of the context.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

But the men who had gone up with him said, “We can’t attack those people; they are stronger than we are.” – Numbers 13:31 This was the bad report. that they couldn’t take them.

 

Ken Ammi

The 3rd thing is that the peoples are “strong” (no, not even “tall.”

 

Brendan O’Brien

Ken Ammi – that’s not the only passage references post-flood Nephilim seed

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

We are told they presented an evil report AFTER that. Yet, of course their faithlessness and disloyalty was part of the problem.

 

ChristThinker @Ken Ammi

The bad part of the report was denying that they could take the land. Not the giants part.

 

Chaos Kampf

32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size.

 

Ken Ammi @Brendan O’Brien

Where are others?

 

Chaos Kampf

33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

 

This is fascinating since all along I have been saying the evil report is all there is, I am told there are more, I ask where, and Chaos goes right back to the evil report—since that is all there is.

 

Ken Ammi @ChristThinker

We are told they presented an evil report AFTER that. Yet, of course their faithlessness and disloyalty was part of the problem.

 

Chaos Kampf

Amos 2:9 implies strength and tall are used in conjunction when talking about giant clans, so your contentions are irrelevant, and are just non-sequiturs.

 

This is directing me to yet another texts that does not mention Nephilim along with a statement about “giant clans”—which biblically means “Rephaim clans.”

 

Ken Ammi

We are often told about the peoples who lived outside of the land: not a single word about Nephilim, ever.

 

Ken Ammi

We are often told about the peoples who lived inside of the land: not a single word about Nephilim, ever.

 

ChristThinker @Ken Ammi

Care to elaborate? I don’t see how that changes anything.

 

That is odd: I’ve been elaborating all along.

 

Ken Ammi

We are often told about battles: not a single word about Nephilim, ever.

 

Ken Ammi

We are often told about hand-to-hand: not a single word about Nephilim, ever.

 

Rev. Elation @Ken Ammi

verse 32 is about verse 31 dude they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “… All the people we saw there are of great size. – Numbers 13:32

 

Ken Ammi

We are often told about the eschaton: not a single word about Nephilim, ever.

 

Ken Ammi @ChristThinker

They made 4 claims about which the whole entire rest of the Bible knows nothing.

 

ChristThinker

David and Goliath is a pretty good example of a Nephilim battle

 

Ken Ammi @Rev. Elation

Within the evil report they made 4 claims about which the whole entire rest of the Bible knows nothing.

 

Clearly, I am attempting to get people to actually engage the actual issue yet, none will take up the actual issue.

 

Ken Ammi @ChristThinker

How so?

 

We will pick up from here in the next segment.

 

For more details, see my books about Angles, demons, Nephilim, “giants,” etc.

 

 

 

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