The question What is the difference in the mention of demons and fallen angels between the New Testament and the Old Testament? was answered by a certain Janet Morrison with whom I subsequently interacted on the Quora site. She has been a long time interlocutor of mine and so I’ll be featuring some of our discussions: see here for them all.
Her reply was
In the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian bible, There is the book of Enoch #1. Not # 2 nor 3 which are not recognized by rabbinical scholars.
The book of Enoch expands on the time of Genesis 6 when there where Nephilim on the earth in those days. When fallen angels took human women as wives. They produced giant offspring called the Nephilim who were part human and part fallen angel. The word Nephilim means Fallen.
The book of Enoch 1 states that when a Nephilim died, their human body died, but their fallen angel part lived on as a disembodied evil spirit.
Peter wrote that the angels who left their habitation are chained in Tartarus. The book of Enoch states that the good angels were shocked at the level of the severity of the punishment the fallen angels who sinned this particular way received.
So not all fallen angels are chained in Tartarus. The book of Daniel talks of good angels fighting with bad angels in the spiritual realm. And that these battles affected earthly territories. So it does not appear that all fallen angels were punished by being chained in Tartarus.
In the book of Job, the Bene ha Elohim / sons of God, gather to give account of what they have been doing, to God, and Satan is amoung them. Satan said he had been walking up and down upon the earth.
The word Bene ha Elohim means the sons of God. Technically, the word angel actually means a messenger of God. But angels have come to mean all celestial creatures – in common usage. Although there are many different types of celestial beings like cherubim and seraphim etc.
The bible states the Bene ha Elohim, the sons of God saw that the daughters of Adam were fair, so they took whatever one they wanted as their wives. Their offspring were the Nephilim. They were the Gibbor: the mighty men of reknown. Think of Goliath who was 9’8” and who had 6 fingers and 6 toes. Think of Nimrod who was a Gibbor. Think of Og, the king of Bashan, who had an iron bed 13 feet long.
So who were the Titans?
Steve Quayle has a book called True Legends that you might find interesting.
I, Ken Ammi, replied
That 1 Enoch is in the Ethiopian canon doesn’t make that one canon uniquely correct but rather, uniquely incorrect since 1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from millennia after the Torah (see my book, “In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch”) in fact, that cannon also contains a text titled, “The Life of Adam and Eve” which claims that when God created Adam, God commanded the Angels to worship Adam.
But, of course, I’ve already told you that.
“The book of Enoch expands on the time of Genesis 6” by making up a bunch of tall-tales. It has Nephilim as being MILES tall which is great folklore but poor reality.
But, of course, I’ve already told you that.
You say, “produced giant offspring called the Nephilim” but you’re unfamiliar with the linguistics since biblically contextually, “produced giant offspring called the Nephilim” means, “produced Nephilim offspring called the Nephilim” and that’s also incoherently anachronistic since Hebrew came first so, if anything, it should have been, “produced Nephilim offspring called the giants in only some modern English versions.”
But, of course, I’ve already told you that.
I’ve already ask you this many times but you never answer since you’re unfamiliar with the relevant linguistics: What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s your usage? Do those two usages agree?
That, “when a Nephilim died, their human body died, but their fallen angel part lived on as a disembodied evil spirit” is just folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah. For a biblical view, please see my article, “Demons Ex Machina: What are Demons?”
But, of course, I’ve already told you that.
You merely assert, “not all fallen angels are chained in Tartarus” but you contradicted Peter and Jude since they wrote, “God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into [Tartarus] and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment” and “the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day” and not: only some.
Will you repent?
There’s not a single word in, “The book of Daniel” that, “talks of good angels fighting with bad angels.”
You refer to, “the Nephilim” and then incoherently jump to something about height and about two Rephaim and Nimrod who has nothing to do with any of this? So, that’s a category error that violates the law of identity.
But, of course, I’ve already told you that.
Why did you myopically merely assert, “Goliath who was 9’8” and who had 6 fingers and 6 toes” when there’s literally zero indication that he had extra digests and the Masoretic text has him at just shy of 10 ft. Yet, the earlier LXX and the earlier Dead Sea Scrolls and the earlier Flavius Josephus all have him at just shy of 7 ft. (compared to the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3 ft. in those days) so that’s the preponderance of the earliest data.
But, of course, I’ve already told you that. [since she posts the same misinfo on a regular basis and I keep correcting her]
And, “Think of Og, the king of Bashan, who had an iron bed 13 feet long” think what about a “bed”?
As for, “Think of Nimrod who was a Gibbor” so what, so is God?
Steve Quayle is a plagiarist and evolutionist who makes a living by selling un-biblical tall-tales to Christians. If he’s one of your trusted sources then no wonder you spread un-biblical tall-tales around the WORLD WIDE web and refuse correction: do you have any idea how accountable you are for that?
Please repent.
Janet Morrison
You are hilarious Ken. Stay biblical
Ken Ammi
It’s tragic that you’ve reached the point that you laugh at the fact that 99% of what you write can be very easily biblically debunked and you just don’t care: please repent, you’re now purposefully misleading people.
A certain Paul Manning chimed in with
The book of Enoch is a salacious novel, not scripture. The writer does not ‘expand on’ Genesis 6 but uses a popular misinterpretation to create a plot.
The sons of God in that context are not angels of God.
Janet Morrison
The book of Enoch 2 and 3 are not recognized by Rabbinical Judaism. I am talking about Enoch 1, which is in the Ethiopian bible and which is quoted word for word in the book of Jude.
Paul Manning
Peter and Jude had major problems with those stories circulating among their congregations, causing them to ‘speak evil of dignitaries’.
Using quotes from it is not to endorse it.
Ken Ammi
I’ve told her many, many, many, many, many times that 1 Enoch is Bible contradicting folklore from centuries, if not millennia, after the Torah, see my book, “In Consideration of the Book(s) of Enoch.”
Also, she might as well endorse Greek poets since Paul quotes them.
Janet Morrison
I know sone bible schools teach that sons of God taking the daughters of Adam as wives were just the sons of Seth taking daughters that were not from Seth. But the bible dies not say that. And why would humans marrying humans create giants like the Rephaim men of terror? Or the giant Anakim/ the long necked ones? Or giant Zamzumin, the sight of whom made the heart faint? Or giant Emin, the terrible ones?
Why would humans marrying humans produce these giants with six finders and six toes?
Paul Manning
Read the account. The giants were already there.
Ken Ammi
I’ve also told her many, many, many times that she’s unfamiliar with the linguistics such as that, for example, she refers to the English word “giants,” waters down that term, and so she chases it around a Hebrew, and incoherently connected contextually unconnected things.
I’ve asked her this many, many, many times but she can’t answer: What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s your usage? Do those two usages agree?
As an example of her watering down, you doesn’t know (even though I’ve explained it to her many, many, many times) that Rephaim have zero relation to Nephilim, that Zamzummim is just an aka for Rephaim and that Anaim and Emmim were just clans of the Rephaim tribe.
As for, “Why would humans marrying humans produce these giants with six finders and six toes” well, she’s relying on that undefined English word again and there’s only one single person in the whole Bible with extra digits and he was a 100% human Repha—and I’ve also told her that many, many, many times.
Paul Manning
There are modern day giants (Hong man Choi). Where did they come from?
Janet Morrison
Jesus said in a Mathew 24 that it would be as in the days of Noah. That means there will be the Return of the Nephilim prior to Christ’s return.
Paul Manning
Neat sidestep.
Ken Ammi
Note how you merely cited a whole chapter and then merely asserted your fantasy imagination.
Consider Jesus’ fuller statement, Jesus’ words, His emphasis, His points, His context, were:
“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.”
But He kept speaking directly with:
“Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed” (Luke 17).
Thus, this was about examples of being unaware/unconcerned about coming judgment.
That brought the discussion to an end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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