Concluding my discussion with a certain Brett T., about whom I wrote in my book “Cain as Serpent Seed of Satan, vol. III” which is subtitled “Considering the Claims of Various Promulgators of this Theory” and one such person is—find my whole serpent seed book series here and the three segments of this discussion here.
My books that are also relevant to this issue, on which I am offering a deal, are:
“On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?” subtitle “A survey of early Jewish and Christian commentaries including noted on giants and the Nephilim”
“What Does the Bible Say About Angels? A Styled Angelology”
“What Does the Bible Say About Demons? A Styled Demonology”
“The Paranormal in Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries” which is subtitled “Over a Millennia’s Worth of Comments on Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Satan, the Devil, Demons, the Serpent and the Dragon.”
“The bottom line I was attempting to reach is that it is enough that we have Satan after us, and demons after us, and our evil desires leading us astray: we do not need to invent the genetic component of the serpent seed to explain anything.
So, overall I have no doubt whatsoever that the evil forces of the spirit realm are out to influence us: I was never denying that but merely questioning what they actually do or try to do. And as a side note yet, Jesus dealt with demon possessed people but pay attention to the fact that of the things described as to what the demons were doing in there enticement to sin was not one of them.”
Brett (FYI: in all his statements which follow, ellipses were in original):
“I don’t honestly think any human being is ‘inventing’ this whole Serpent seed concept. I am sure you know that thoroughbred horses are preferred to race than mixed blood horses; ancient empires often preferred the pure blood sons of a king/pharaoh, etc. over others. What I am simply saying is that, regardless of political correctness, today, the blood can make a difference, sometimes. Of course, it doesn’t make a difference all the time, or isn’t the ENTIRE factor of human thought and action, but one can not just toss it aside, because it’s something which does not sound politically correct (or humanistic).
Take the case of Judas. I found this interesting: Judas was, in some circles, considered to possibly be of Edomite blood, or at least wasn’t Galilean, unlike the rest of Jesus’ disciples (I can forward you articles which say this, if you want). Now, Judas saw everything 24/7, of the works of Jesus, and how Jesus was so good, how he preformed miracles, etc. However, even though, like almost everybody else, he had all of the evidence right in front of him; yet something in his mind helped him to decide to betray the son of God! Wow. What was behind his actions? If it’s only behavior, theoretically, he should have been right by Jesus’ side… for all time.
The Edomites (the blood of Esau), was mixed with other non-Israeli peoples (throughout time), and Esau, himself, had some issues to begin with. So, his descendants having these same issues? … possibly.
Jesus obviously exorcized these people, so any possession must not have for the betterment of the person, or else they would have probably not flocked to Jesus for help! Right?
Your reply sounded similar to a thought I had recently. I was thinking about how much sickness there is in the world, from cancer, to disease, to all other things by which a person could get sick. And, then I hear about parasites and disgusting things which can get into the food we eat and affect us from the inside, and think: wow, we got enough ways to get sick, and now we can get sick with eating food that’s not cooked perfectly, or may be catching parasites and other nasty internal organisms. Why also have THESE problems to face, and concerns about being sick, I thought? ‘It is enough’ that we have all of the other diseases around us…
Again, human interpretations of this cursed world. Who am I to question the world the way it is? There are tapeworms and other nasty things we have to be concerned about, along with any outer pathogens and sicknesses out there. That’s just the way it is. Also, if people could have some negative results from a particular parent passing on blood, then that’s the way this cursed world is, as well (in my book).
Sorry to say…”
“Ok, I understand your thoughts now too—as disturbing as that is ;o)
Error begets error and the problem is that you have turned the serpent seed theory into a worldview and theology so that now you not only interpret the whole Bible but all of history via that view.
What you wrote is an example of both, allow me to demonstrate.
We both already know that the politically correct issue is actually a non-issue for me so we can put that one away for good.
To you, ‘the case of Judas’ has to do with that ‘in some circles’ he is ‘considered to possibly be of Edomite blood, or at least wasn’t Galilean.’ So it is about genealogy, blood, seed, etc. Yes, beyond ‘all of the evidence right in front of him…something in his mind helped him to decide to betray the son of God!’ So, ‘What was behind his actions?’ well, we agree that there is not just one and only one motivator for our actions yet, you are failing to consider that which the Bible tells us about ‘What was behind his actions?’ which is that ‘Satan entered Judas’ (Luke 22:3)—which, by the way, is the only time we are told about such a thing happening.
So you are opting to trace down ‘endless genealogies’ (1 Timothy 1:4) in order to explain it rather than just allowing the Bible to explain it to you.
Within the context of ‘blood’ you note that ‘Esau, himself, had some issues to begin with’ but you do not say what those issues were. You ask ‘So, his descendants having these same issues? … possibly’ well, I do not know to what you are referring but it has nothing to do with blood. You are failing to consider that Esau was not only Jacob’s brother but his twin: they have the very same blood.
So, you are opting to appeal to blood to explain Esau’s ‘some issues’ rather than just allowing the Bible to explain it to you.
As for the fact that ‘Jesus obviously exorcized these people’ indeed, possession was not for their betterment, only exorcism was. Now, you rightly note ‘Jesus also healed people who were possessed’ and we are told what some of those demons were doing to them or having them do and sin is never mentioned. What is mentioned is being dumb, deaf, throwing oneself into fire, seizures, etc. You state, ‘remember the swine in the water incident’ and Legion was not said to have been sinning but harming himself (unless you count being violent against other people).
In any case, since these are cases of possession they have nothing to do with serpent seed—this only went to my point about how the Bible does not tell us that demons cause us to or influence us to sin: which does not mean that they do not but only that we are not told as much (Satan’s actions are a separate issue, as well as rare).
I am afraid that I have never cared to debate metaphors. In short, to reiterate my point, ‘we have Satan after us, and demons after us, and our evil desires leading us astray: we do not need to invent the genetic component of the serpent seed to explain anything’ and since we have no revealed indication that there is anything else then we should not invent something else.
So, is there a race of people who are part Satanic genetics? No, the way this cursed world is explains enough and we do not need to invent this as a supposed explanation.
I am not aware that anyone can email me via CreateSpace. The Aussie contacted me via my Facebook fan page and the do-it-myself print his book, or whatever, contracted me via my website.”
“Well, with all due respect, my question to you is: why is it disturbing for you to understand my thoughts, as well? I’m not upset, but just honestly wondering. I believe (and this may be just me) that I can learn from everybody I come across… you include. Everyone is my superior in at least 1 way… so I look to you, not only to debate stuff, but to also learn stuff.
As far as what you said, my question honestly seems to be to you: why are you so hesitant to actually look to one’s genetics as a part of the influences being behind the ways they think? With all due respect, it seems similar to one showing Dracula the cross, here. It seems like you cannot face any of the possibility of genetics being behind one’s decision making. Why? What’s so difficult about this possibility?
If you believe that fallen angels (in Gen. 6) could mate with humans, and have children (the Anakin, Refaim, etc.), then what’s so difficult about the possibility that the Serpent (or Nahash) is in reality another fallen angel on earth, with those same functionalities?
It’s not Satan having children (from what I’ve found), it’s the Serpent having children. These are two different situiations. Satan is a spiritual being (a Cherubim), the Serpent is a fallen angel (a Seraphim). Satan possessed the Serpent, and told him what to say (like in a typical possession), which helped to undermine Eve.
It seems, according to you: a thoroughbred horse or dog, in no way, matters to people (or should)… but it so often does! According to you, it seems: a son of Michael Jordan, theoretically, should have absolutely no genetics behind his advanced abilities to play basketball… but a lot of people think he should be good, even his father. So, he plays, and plays well!
I know it’s not that way in every case, of course, as far as in genetics – but why deny what you see every day around you? Why deny that some people might just be good (or bad) at things, based on their genetic blood? If genetics can help give people and animals “a step up” over their neighbors in good ways, then who’s to say that it cannot help give people ‘a step down’ in negative ways, as well?
You’ve heard of a ‘bad seed!’ Why automatically deny the possibility? I could have been a really good musician if I started young, and stuck with it. I know I could have. My brother and father were great musicians (my brother even played with Wayne Newton, in Las Vegas). It’s in my blood it seems. My son has relatives on his mother’s side who act and work in the movies, and now he is a production assistant in some major movies (with Clint Eastwood’s new movie as an example). Again, it seems to be in his blood, as well. Why is this so hard for you to face the possibility?
As far as Esau: you do know that Esau was said to have Canaanite wives, mixing with surrounding pagan nations (unlike Jacob). So, there: you now have corrupt blood with Esau’s Edomites being passed down through the women in his life. The Canaanites obviously mixed with the Anakim, and had corrupted their bloodlines over time. So, could these corrupted bloodline elements could have been something behind Judas’ thoughts, maybe… if he was Edomite?
There is not necessarily a ‘race’ of people with blood of the Serpent, per se; as you might think of a race being Caucasian or Mongol. It can be present here and there, in many different people, now a days. Bloodlines have been mixed quite a bit, now a days. Who knows who it infiltrated, over time? Jesus even said ‘by their fruits ye shall know them.’ I guess that’s the only way for them to be exposed, for sure.
How can you believe in other fallen angels having Anakim and Refaim offspring, when you cannot even entertain the possibility of the Serpent being an angel, too? How can you believe in the Anakim and Refaim, then… for they are mixed blood (by which God hates)? Why would God not want people to mix with these angels, or their offspring, if there was absolutely no way (as you seem to believe) that any mixed blood could infect a person, or their thoughts? Come on.
Please don’t tell me this angelic blood they passed had absolutely no influence on the ways their offspring would be, or behave! God doesn’t contradict Himself: He didn’t want these two bloodlines to mix for a reason. It has to matter, or nothing I said, above, would actually be something we see around us, or understand.
🙂 tty soon. Nothing offensive implied.”
“Friend, the ‘;o)’ implies playful joshing. Also, just to save you some time: I do not get offended so that is a non-issue for me.
I agree in that I too have learned all sorts of things from my vast reading of SSS theorists: the good, the bad and the ugly.
I never denied that genetics are a part of the influences behind thinking and acting. I deny the claim that any humans have ever had Satanic/serpentine genetics. In fact, proving such would be very simple: DNA tests.
Ironing out some details.
Yes, I hold to the Angel view of the Genesis 6 affair but not that their offspring were Anakin, Refaim, etc.
I hold that the serpent is Satan and so there is no correlation between the ‘Serpent (or Nahash)’ and ‘another fallen angel’ since Satan is not a fallen Angel, he is a fallen Cherub and these are different categories of being, different titled, different job function and, here is the key, they look different from each other. Now, yes Satan is a ‘spiritual’ being but is not a ‘spirit’ being.
As far as I can tell, claiming that ‘the Serpent is a fallen angel’ is something you made up (or else, send along a citation, please, and same with the claim that ‘Satan possessed the Serpent’) and that such a ‘fallen angel’ is ‘a Seraphim’ gets you into the same problem as the Cherubim: these are all different kinds of beings, they are not all Angels since only Angels are Angels.
Again, since the SSS theory has become your interpretive lens then you appeal to blood/genetics rather than what the Bible tells you which you ignore: Satan entered Judas.
Please be careful how you mix and match your metaphors because Jesus never said ‘by their fruits ye shall know them’ within the context of generics, bloodlines, or serpentine people but about His followers.
I have noticed that you tend to argue about how I can believe A but not B or why I do not even bother considering B. Again, I never said that I believe in ‘fallen angels having Anakim and Refaim offspring’ but that they did have offspring. I have no problem going on to ‘entertain the possibility of the Serpent being an angel, too’ but having entertained it, I reject it since there is no evidence for it and no reason to conclude that besides that you literally had to invent that out of thin air in order to puff up your theory.
As to why God would not want His people to mix with others, He tells us many, many times: it is because such mixing brings along with it a mixing of customs and practices (see Deuteronomy 7, Numbers 25, Joshua 23, 1 Kings 11, Ezra 9 and additionally Exodus 34, and 2 Corinthians 6) so that it is not genetics but beliefs, cultures, and rituals. What you will have to do is to admit that God told us the reason but that you cannot accept God’s word for it because it is inconvenient to your theory.
I have no problem thinking that ‘angelic blood’ did influence their offspring to some extent yet, that blood is dead and gone and the serpentine blood never was.”
And that, as they say, was that.
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