Such was a question posted to the Quora site and led to the following discussion when a certain Glenn Brotherton replied thusly
The Nephilim did not survive the Flood.
Most Bible commentators have been misinterpreting the Scriptures again and again….such as Numbers chapters 13 and 14 in this matter of the “Nephilim” meaning ‘those that cause others to fall’ or “fellers” from the Hebrew word. ( Other edited Bibles have the word “giants.”)
How so?
The “Nephilim” (some Bible versions say “giants”) at Genesis 6:1–4, were freakish hybrid-offspring of angels that ‘materialized physically’ and had sex with human women. These new extraordinary creatures existed throughout the ‘120 years’ up to the global Flood. They were notorious and were the basis of many later legends of Babylonian, Greek, Hindu, Roman, Norse, Viking and Anglo-Saxon ‘demigods’ as ‘super-heroes,’…good and bad. (Genesis 6:3–4) But, they were all killed off and swept away by the global flood. However, their spirit-fathers (angelic sons of God) de-materialized, …and returned to the spirit realm where they were immediately arrested and imprisoned in a spiritual dungeon according to 1 Peter 3:18-20; and 2 Peter 2:4, also Jude 1:6. ( For those people that deny the “sons of God” in Genesis chapter 6, verse 1–4 were spirit beings, that materialized as physical men and later returned to the spirit realm as angels, …do they also deny that God’s firstborn son as “the Word” in heaven later became flesh on earth born thru a human mother Mary? [ John 1:14.] Later, Jesus gave his life as a ransom as if a Passover Lamb, [John 1:29] but he was resurrected as a spirit-being again.! > 1 Peter 3:18; Acts 2:32-36.)
The report to Moses of the “Nephilim” of the Israelites spying 40 days inside the Promised Land was an exaggeration by faithless, cowardly men of Irsael who doubted both their leader Moses and their God Yahweh. The spies lied in saying that the tall tribe of Rephaim were the giant “Nephilim,” … and they grossly distorted the comparison by saying that the Israelites were merely the size of “grasshoppers.” Compare Numbers 13:30-33, with 14:36-37.
The false report of “40 days” by the 10 faithless fearful spies out-numbered the other report by the 2 loyal spies > Joshua and Caleb. So, the nation over-reacted and shouted insults to God thru his representative Moses, even though they recently crossed the Red Sea by a miraculous rescue from the attack by the Egyptian army. Next, because of the 40 day negative report, God punished that whole negative generation with “40 years” of wandering in the Sinai wilderness until the faithless generation died off, … except Joshua and Caleb. However, the children of the faithless generation inherited the Promised Land. > Numbers 14:26-33.
Therefore, NO, … the Nephilim did not survive the Flood of Noah’s days. The report by the spies was a false exaggeration by faithless Israelites, even though they were eyewitnesses to the miraculous victory back then when the elite Egyptian Army drowned in the Red Sea. Exodus chapters 14 & 15.
Ken Ammi
Indeed, “Nephilim did not survive the Flood.”
There’s no indication that Angels are “spirit” nor that they “de-materialized, or ‘re-verted.’”
Indeed, Num 13:33 is utterly unreliable—and since that’s the only physical description we have of Nephilim then, well, we’ve no reliable physical description of them at all.
Glenn Brotherton
Hi Ken,
Apparently, you did not examine the proof texts I mentioned > Jude 1:6; 1 Peter 3:18–20; and 2 Peter 2:4.
Ken Ammi
Friend, I’ve included those texts in my books on these issues but am unsure what they have to do with my comment: please elucidate. FYI: https://truefreethinker.com/no-end-books-publications
Glenn Brotherton
Why did you write that angels are not spirits?
God is a Spirit, and angels are “sons of God.” > Job 1:6; & 2:1–7 and 38:4–7.
Ken Ammi
I wrote that Angels are not spirits because Angels are not spirits: they are described as looking like human males, performing physical actions, and with zero indication that such isn’t their ontology.
God is a Spirit, and born again Humans are “sons of God”—and humans have spirits but are embodied spirits, not spirits proper.
Glenn Brotherton
Have we overlooked Genesis 6:1–4.?
Ken Ammi
No, why?
Glenn Brotherton
No, Genesis 6:1–4 was in my original answer, paragraph 2.
Ken Ammi
What about it?
Dylan Ruble
The Scriptures directy say the fallen angels became spirits after the flood lol. So yes there is direct indication they were spirits and it also literally says they could no longer have human form but only affects the minds of man as evil spirits and demons when trapped into tartarus so yes, de materialized literally point blank lol. Gotta keep reading man. The nephilim were the demigods offspring of the annunaki and they were all men. Like Hercules. Women were gifted magic or sorcery by female angels bc the fallen angels took wives for themselves and were disgusting as the bible says literally. They fallen angels are the annunaki, gods first children. Anu. God. Annunaki gods children. They left heaven came to earth and were giants, could shape shift into human and animal, and they mated and created horrible abominations. Maybe minotaur etc. Half human half animal. It says these fallen angels were worshiped like gods, hence all the Greek and Roman and Norse statues etc. Enki & Enlil, Horus and Set, Cain and Abel, Zeus and Chronos, Thor & Loki. Same story. Tiamat & Marduk/Mardon are descendents of Noah as the biblical genealogy incurs. To simple say someone was exaggerating and chalk it up as that is unwise in my opin ion. The book does not imply or say they were exaggerating in any form, that’s man’s foolish ass umpt ions. It says what it says about them. They made men look like grasshoppers. The Scriptures say not all of the angels died in the flood and not all were trapped in tartarus. These giants were Noah’s offspring. Noah had 3 sons, 1 bloodline was really good, the one that bred Abraham and Jesus. The middle sons offspring died off and the 3rd had the evil side of the world, all the primordial serpent gods, nimrod, etc.
Ken Ammi
I’ve published in books, written in articles, and stated on videos that, “fallen angels became spirits” so I’m unsure about what you’re “lol.”
But that, “they were spirits” is anachronistic since “they were spirits” post-flood and that’s just the fallen ones.
As for, “it also literally says they could no longer have human” please provide quotations and citations.
The fallen Angels’ bodies are in Tartarus but their spirits roam the Earth and are what we call demons or unclean spirits, by any other name.
You noted, “Women were gifted magic or sorcery by female angels bc the fallen angels took wives for themselves and were disgusting as the bible says literally” so please provide quotations and citations.
As for, “fallen angels are the annunaki…left heaven came to earth and were giants, could shape shift into human and animal, and they mated and created horrible abominations” what indication is there of any of that?
The only one who referred to “exaggerating” is you but we can know the “evil report” is inaccurate due to it’s contents and due to that it implies that God failed thus, there are no “ass umpt ions” about it.
I’m unsure why you’re referring to people as “It” but the 10 unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishers whom God rebuked made up a fear mongering scare tactic: why do you side with them rather than with the God who rebuked them?
You claimed, “The Scriptures say not all of the angels died in the flood and not all were trapped in tartarus” but it doesn’t say that any of them died and of course it was only the sinful ones who were incarcerated.
As for, “These giants were Noah’s offspring”: the key questions are:
What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?
What’s your usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?
Do those two usages agree?
Profile photo for Dylan Ruble
I will give the direct scripture and verses later but it seems as if you dont really know much about etymology or the study of other ancient cultures like the akkadians, sumerians, Babylonia, etc. Bc its blatantly obvious the nephilim survived the flood, 1 because they are literally mentioned after the flood and 2 because of the bloodline of Noah. 1 good bloodline aka bloodline of Abraham and Jesus. 1 bad bloodline aka ham kush into mardon/marduk, nimrod, enki etc. Which are considered history in the epic of gilgamesh, the oldest story ever recorded by carbondating. Enki and enlil were giants, as well as tiamat who is also the bloodline of Noah. Pan, baal, tammuz, enkidu, even Tiamat, the Starbucks logo primordial evil slayer are the bloodline of noah. Hence the abyss. Or all the movies like the cracken, pirates of carribean, odysseus, etc or anything with sex symbology dealing with seamen and a primordial serpent or other form. Taimat slayed her partner. Like Kale. Or the woman in game of thrones vs John snow. Fire vs ice. Fire dragon goddess slays ice rival, but in Hollywood they tend to reverse the roles a bunch to confuse the masses. I suggest you look into the bloodline of Noah heavily. Study nimrod amd the ziggarut of eridu aka tower of babel, and the tablets which connect history with the bible such as the Enuma Elish, a massive connection. I also suggest you read your Bible again bc its blatantly obvious in exodus, the land of Canaan is literally a land of giants thats why God sent an angel to usher them through that land to protect them lol. The entire story is about the israelites main purpose is to destroy the remaining giants not humans lol. King og, Goliath, the annakim, etc. Exodus 23:20. I could go on forever about these bloodlines, their names in English today and their names in their respective languages but we both know that would take a book lol. Sorry for butchering this entire entry, I’m in the military and writing this in a troop truck lmfao. Very bumpy and my adrenaline spiked heavy rn. Anyways, please look into the bloodline of Noah, and what the scriptures are saying, it’s a terrible idea to see a passage that says the nephilim survived and then as a foolish human you decide that that was a lie or exaggeration. You don’t get to decide that or put that down, it was written for a reason and many passages literally go along with the fact that giants survived the flood through the bloodline of Noah and the purpose of the exodus agter crossing was for the israelites to wipe out the remaining giants. Take this into consideration. Usually they teach Joshua was the leader of these raids of where giants were spotted but this isn’t the case. Gen 15:18-21 promises abrahams descendants the land that’s literally claimed from the giants. The Rephaim being one of those lands that translates directly to old race of giants, you csn find this on the Hebrew and English lexicon websites. This literally tells us that later on when the israelites go into Canaan, they will be going to a land of giants. The men who appeared to Abraham were angels and this is directly confirmed in scripture as well. [****] it I’ll list the verses for you, keep in mind and angel and the angel of the lord are different. Gen 12 (mostly verse 7), Gen 15:1, Gen 15: 18-21 (srry for repeat), Gen 18:2–3, Gen 18:22, (also tske note how many men csme to Abram, Abraham, 3. You must realize now, 1 of them was god) also Hhhh th3 breath of life, Gen 19:1, Gen 22:12, (notice the switch, speaking about God, to speaking as If he is god), Exodus 14:19-20, (notice who marched, who led, a big deal in ancient times, tis The Angel Of The Lord, an importsnt term to note and many verses deal with this title), Exodus 23:21-22, Psalm 75:1 related to exodus 23:21, Proverbs 18:10 related to the previous 2 cited verses, The Two Powers In Heaven is the name of this work, predating the new testament by 200 years. Please take into consideration that this war wasn’t a war amongst people but people.vs giants truly. Oh and the reason I lol is because you’re literal first sentence says there is no proof angels became spirits or de materaliaze, and now your saying you’ve written books on angels being spirits lol. Angels could come into human form, appear in all shapes and sizes it says so these spirits were giants but also appeared as man , just like immortals or any Greek movie where Zeus is an old man guiding a young warrior.
Dylan Ruble
Please let me know what you think about the Enuma Elis and the Bloodline or Noah birthing evil andgiants again in the world as well as the israelites battle in Canaan to wipe out the giants with the angel of the lords protection. Sorry for getting Fiesty, military got my heart rate and blood pumpin all the time lmfao. You do seem very knowledgeable and allow me some time to find the versus about what I mentioned in my first comment. There’s like 40 verses I need to link lol. Gotta find them again.
Ken Ammi
Please mind your manners.
Fascinatingly, I’ve asked those key questions to dozens and dozens (and dozens [and dozens]) of people who go on and on (and on [and on]) about “giants” and literally zero have replied.
Since you assert, “its blatantly obvious the nephilim survived the flood” then you contradicted the Bible five times (does that matter to you?) and you imply that God failed: He meant to be rid of them via the flood but couldn’t get the job done, He must have missed a loophole that you found, the flood was much of a waste, etc. See, fallacious Nephilology negatively effects theology proper. Also, post-flood Nephilologists have to just invent un-biblical tall-tales about how they made it past the flood.
As for, “they are literally mentioned after the flood” well, that’s incoherent since I can mention George Washington right now but that doesn’t mean he’s alive.
You’re replying exclusively on one sentence in an “evil report” by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.
Since you didn’t reply to the key questions, when you keep on referring to “giants” then I have to merely guess as to what you’re referring such as, “Enki and enlil were giants, as well as tiamat.” But what would their presumed subjectively unusual height (which means that the answer to the third key question is “No”) have to do with Nephilim?
What about “nimrod”?
You also jump from the specific ancient Hebrew term “Nephilim” to the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” so it’s even harder to follow such as in the case of “Canaan is literally a land of giants.”
Now, you asserted that Nephilim included, “King og, Goliath, the annakim” but they were all Rephaim.
You say, “it’s a terrible idea to see a passage that says the nephilim survived and then as a foolish human you decide that that was a lie or exaggeration” but no passage says the Nephilim survived—that contradicts the Bible five times—and the one and only sentence from you can infer that is a literal tall-tale by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.
Likewise, you say, “many passages literally go along with the fact that giants survived the flood through the bloodline of Noah” but there’s literally no such passage.
But then again, you’re generically referring to “giants” so it’s hard to know what you’re saying so let me try it this way:
“israelites to wipe out the remaining giants” no if referring to Nephilim, yes if referring to Rephaim.
“Joshua was the leader of these raids of where giants were” no if referring to Nephilim, yes if referring to Rephaim.
“land that’s literally claimed from the giants” no if referring to Nephilim, yes if referring to Rephaim.
If we get to those key questions, you’ll realize that biblically contextually, “The Rephaim being one of those lands that translates directly to old race of giants” reads as, “The Rephaim being one of those lands that translates directly to old race of Rephaim.”
As for, “Hebrew and English lexicon websites” or, see my book, “Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010”
“they will be going to a land of giants” no if referring to Nephilim, yes if referring to Rephaim.
“war amongst people but people.vs giants truly” no if referring to Nephilim, yes if referring to Rephaim.
“no proof angels became spirits or de materaliaze” you merely followed that up with another mere assert, “Angels could come into human form, appear in all shapes and sizes” and claim “it says” so please quote and cite.
As for, “these spirits were giants” I have no idea what that means.
“israelites battle in Canaan to wipe out the giants” no if referring to Nephilim, yes if referring to Rephaim.
That brought the discussion to and end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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