There are, sad, reasons why I coined the term Gigorexia Nervosa which I defined as an obsession with seeing giants and just making up tall tales where there are none to be seen.
In this case, during our debate Gary Wayne made a very specific claim, “Saul was selected as king because he was, at least, a head taller than everybody—that’s what the Bible says.”
Think for a moment, or look it up now, what the Bible does and does not say in this regard. The claim was that what “the Bible says” is that “Saul was selected as king because he was, at least, a head taller than everybody.”
Well, I chimed in thusly, “It doesn’t say he was selected because he was taller, it says he was selected and points out that he was tall, there’s no statement that he’s selected because of his height, that’s not there.”
Wayne replied, “They wanted to have a king like the other nations, right?”
Now, this is accurate so I noted, “Because the other nations had kings and they didn’t so they wanted a king.”
He replied, “They wanted to have a king like other nations and he was a head taller, right? Okay so, they didn’t call him a giant though. They did not. But, they wanted to have a king like the other ones not only in a monarchy but somebody who was a warrior-like, which Saul, was a warrior-king. Just as David was, but they were happy to have somebody that was, you know, a little taller so that he would lead them, but they didn’t call him a giant.”
He replied, “They wanted to have a king like other nations and he was a head taller, right? Okay so, they didn’t call him a giant though. They did not. But, they wanted to have a king like the other ones not only in a monarchy but somebody who was a warrior-like, which Saul, was a warrior-king. Just as David was, but they were happy to have somebody that was, you know, a little taller so that he would lead them, but they didn’t call him a giant.”
Note that what we didn’t get from that counter-argument is that “the Bible says” that “Saul was selected as king because he was, at least, a head taller than everybody.” Rather, when called on it we got the watered down version, “he was a head taller…who was a warrior-like…a little taller.”
This is refocusing on what the text actually stated and is where our focus should remain—or, quickly return.
Now, if “They wanted to have a king like other nations… a head taller” that implies, and asserts, that the other nations had such tall kings—with “tall” being a subjective term—but we’ve no such data. Thus, his premise is faulty.
But let’s grant it: other nations had kings that were a head taller than the subjective average, what of it?
But perhaps we should first ask exactly which “other nations,” plural, had kings that were, “a head taller?”
Well, to Gary Wayne subjectively unusual height (even if slightly unusual?) has something to do with Nephilim—even though he admits he doesn’t know how “big” they were—with “big” being a subjective term—and yet, still insists of calling them “giants”—with “giants” being a subjective term—so that he ponders how “giants” returned after the flood even whilst admitting the last of the Nephilim died in the flood.
Now, if “Saul was selected as king because he was, at least, a head taller than everybody—that’s what the Bible says” but the case is that he was a “warrior-like…warrior-king” why was David not a head taller than the average Israelite (who in those days was 5.0-5.3 ft.), nor Solomon nor, apparently, any other Israelite king?
That “they didn’t call him a giant…they didn’t call him a giant” is interesting because if they did then what word/term or phrase would they have used?
I don’t mean which modern vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage English word we would use but they would use?
“Nephilim” doesn’t mean nor imply subjectively unusual height.
“Rephaim” doesn’t mean nor imply subjectively unusual height.
“Gibborim,” if you’re reading the LXX, doesn’t mean nor imply subjectively unusual height.
So, they would have said what’s translated as “tall” or “great height”—with both of those being subjective, of course.
But still, we’ve no indication that such was an issue at all.
We know why it was specified that Saul was taller than average but there’s no reason to think that “Saul was selected as king because he was, at least, a head taller than everybody” and can certainly and specifically know that “that’s” not “what the Bible says.”
One of my concerns about such assertions is that if I had not been there to counter-argue, then some would have uncritically, without double checking, simply believed that the Bible says something that it never does.
I give Gary Wayne lots of credit for being willing to debate since, as far as I know, he’s the only pop-researchers of Nephilology, giantology, etc., who was willing to do so.
TJ Steadman was willing as well but he’s not very pop—and he made the same argument as Wayne so if you want to see the relevant texts regarding this issue, I quoted them in the article TJ Steadman on Saul as a king like unto the “Giant” Rephaim kings.
Now, ask yourself why if, say, you get on YouTube and search for “Christian debate” you’ll encounter Christians debating many, many, many subjects except that the only one, as far as I know, featuring a pop-researchers of Nephilology, giantology, etc. will be Wayne.
Where are the ones, the many, featuring pop-researchers whose entire “ministries,” livelihood, and popularity, are based on Nephilology, giantology, etc. defending their views, having them challenged—not just their lectures, videos, and interviews were they are merely given to assert whatever they want in an unchallenged matter?
I can only tell you from experience of having contacted such pop-researchers that they want nothing to do with it and if they discern that you may want to challenge them they, suddenly, just stop replying.
This has to change.
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