Discussion with Atheist on morality vs. ethics, 4/9

dan barker, charles darwin, morality, ethics.jpg

Continuing a discussion took place due to my video Atheist defines morality “I want what I want…it’s good because it’s what I want.” See all portions of this discussion here.


Continuing a discussion took place due to my video Atheist defines morality “I want what I want…it’s good because it’s what I want.” See all portions of this discussion here.

While you are at it, see my book Pop-Atheist Bible Expositors starring Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Dan Barker, and Neil deGrasse Tyson and also my book Reasons for Being An Atheist: A Comprehensive Guide.

eddy eldridge
“many scientists are becoming celebs now a days” Because of personality, not by invention, nor discovery, nor by being the brightest in their field.
“One reason that Miller and Urey did not become rich and famous for “proving abiogenesis” is that they proved no such thing.” Do you actually know what they did or are you assuming they didn’t prove it simply because they’re not as famous as you think they should be?
“if there is actual evidence within it please quote it.” We know the processes of assorted matter coming together, naturally. I’ve listed the steps already, if you want to know the details, use google. I’m not leaving half a college course in a youtube reply. We know Earth held suitable conditions for each step. With zero evidence of an intelligent guiding force to take over for a natural process, the natural process remains. To disprove abiogenesis at this point, you must first prove an intelligent force exists and then prove it had anything to do with the formation of life on earth.
“You do not seem to understand that when,” So because there were multiple forms of slavery, does that mean the bad ones the bible allows don’t exist? Or that they’re less bad? That if you’re born from a slave, you’re a slave for life is somehow acceptable in ANY context? Like a typical Christian, you avoid directly addressing the clearly bad stuff and sugar coat the more favorable but still bad stuff.
“why harm is condemnable” You’re seriously asking this? You’re seriously asking why “harm” is bad? I honestly don’t know how much simpler I can make this! Its such a simple concept! But the idea that causing any sort of harm is bad for ANY reason other than your god told you so is truly incomprehensible for you, isn’t it?
“If we evolved to be innately hostile to our own kind…” which is an unjustified preference for members of your own species.” What the [****] does it matter if its unjustified!? We did it, it was favorable to our survival, the practice carried on, now here we are. Evolution isn’t sentient, so why would it care about something being justified?
“And you do so because Atheism is thought restricting and will only allow you to come to such conclusions but the universe does not owe you the reality you want.” You think I like the idea of a finite life in a cold universe where the grandest actions of my species will ultimately amount to nothing and free will is an illusion? I came to that conclusion the same way I became an atheist: evidence. I don’t believe those things because I’m an atheist, I believe those thing AND don’t believe in your god because I’m RATIONAL!
“that is not evidence or proof but you are merely asserting a statement of your “faith”” Feel free to prove a soul exists or that our brain has little influence on our mind. Biology and psychology is more than enough proof for my case. Again, google exists. Feel free to look it up, if you think you can handle it.
“you are condemning living in a fantasy but what is it about your worldview that demands that such a conclusion is imperative, that we should not live in a fantasy?” Because you can’t make proper decisions when operating under incorrect information. You also agree living in a fantasy is wrong, but you just don’t yet realize you’re doing it.
“the typical Atheist/evolutionist “faith” based answer to why people are theists is that it developed as a Darwinian survival mechanism” I have NEVER heard a single person, atheist or otherwise say that.
“theism is the very best Darwinian survival mechanism that has ever accidentally come about.”
And then we came up with something better: science and rationality. That’s why theism is dying off. Because a world of information is at our fingertips. Its harder to take advantage of peoples’ ignorance.
“”just tossed his opinion out there, just like everyone else”?” What makes you think I did? I can just as easily say my opinions are absolutes. You still haven’t proven your god is even real, but you expect me to accept that his opinion is somehow anything other than what all opinions are: subjective?
“and may the fittest win, right?” I’ve said, VERY clearly, MULTIPLE times, YES! Yet you keep bringing it up as some sort of “gotcha.” Isn’t your god supposed to win in the long run because he’s the fittest?
“just because you do not like the fact that there is a difference between mores and ethos and that one is subjective and the other objective does not make it so.” There is no underlying objectivity to morals, either. You want there to be on some level, any level, no matter how deep you need to dig, you want there to be some solid grain of “rightness” to be out there, somewhere. There isn’t.
“Just ask social Darwinists and/or eugenicists or the secular cultures that think that death is the best solution to all problems: baby=death, elderly=death, Down Syndrome=death—problems solved!” Cute strawman. Here’s mine: Theists think the solution to all problems is prayer. Whatever happens after is as God willed it.
“why simply invent the idea that duration of existence is any sort of standard?” Any better ideas? That don’t involve merely laying groundwork for a second life that you have no proof exists? A second life that exists infinite in duration?
“Friend, you are merely making up all sorts of things because your worldview provides you nothing but an empty void” Close: my worldview provides something real to fill that void with. I still acknowledge the void. You pretend there isn’t one, because God’s filling it.
“when you are made to face that fact you just throw out anything that comes to mind but it is all mere authoritative assertions.” Totally unlike you, right? Tell me more about the mores and ethos. Or would that count as asserting?
“The undebatable historical fact is that your worldview also allows you to authoritatively assert the exact opposite” And where are those dictators now? They did what they thought was right, so did we. Lucifer did what he thought was right, so did God. In both cases, the winner was determined by strength, rather than morality.
“So, first you claim to somehow know that I think that I am special and when you find out that the exact opposite is the fact you do not back away from your demonstrable error but push on.” You don’t think you’re more highly evolved than other animals? You don’t think God created the universe for humans? You don’t think he’s got his eye out for your best interest? I DID explain why you do think you’re special. But of course you’d ignore that part.
“you believe that nothing caused nothing to explode,” Oh, wow, not a single creationist knows how the Big Bang works. Here’s a hint: its nothing like that.
“you are an accident, you are temporary and very, very, very soon you, everything you have ever though, everything you have ever done, everyone you have ever known will come to literally a meaningless nothing—your worldview guarantees you as much.” Any evidence to the contrary? No? Then what’s your point? That my worldview is depressing and so people shouldn’t believe its true?
“With threats?” it is not surprising that someone who hold to a literally meaningless worldview which only guarantees suffering and death would focus on that.” No, I just pointed out the part theists like to ignore. That your all loving god is willing to torture people eternally just because they don’t worship him. You wouldn’t give anyone else a pass on that.
“sin violates His very nature and essence” Then where did it come from? Did your god not create everything in the universe? And if he doesn’t like sin, why not wipe it out himself? Why threaten the people he claims to love “get rid of it yourself or burn for eternity?”
Looking forward to your next reply, where you avoid addressing my inconvenient points.

dan barker, charles darwin, morality, ethics.jpg

Ken Ammi
Well friend, at least for me, this is getting unmanageably verbose. Let us bottom line what was supposed to be our focus: I demonstrated that A and B are different: one being tentative, the other absolute, etc.
What Atheism has left you with, as you admitted, is the inability to even claim that slavery (or anything else for that matter) is actually, really, ontologically, absolutely, always call it what you will: evil, unethical, wrong, bad, etc.
It has only left you with, as you admitted, merely the ability to assert personal preferences de jour.
You can say the words evil, unethical, wrong, bad, etc. but, as you admitted, that is merely your opinion and actually says nothing about the thing itself but only what you think about the thing.
Also, Atheism has left you with the conclusion that you say that something is evil, unethical, wrong, bad, etc. based on the reactions of chemicals which collide within your brain due to haphazard, blind, random, goalless evolution.

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