Discussion on when Stephen Hawking found God

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The following discussion took place due to the video Stephen Hawking has found God!!!

oker59 commented

No, you say god exists; the onus of proof is on you, not the atheist. You’re a sick warped mind.

My reply, Ken Ammi

The following discussion took place due to the video Stephen Hawking has found God!!!

oker59 commented

No, you say god exists; the onus of proof is on you, not the atheist. You’re a sick warped mind.

My reply, Ken Ammi

Friend, “You’re a sick warped mind” is a subjective emotional outburst, please engage in reasoned discourse. Please 1) justify your demand for proof. Also, tell us what such proof would look like: what would count as such proof. Lastly, to what denomination of Atheism do you adhere?

oker59

I already justified why the onus of proof of the existence of god belongs to the god-believers.
You do know what deductive proof is, right? Also, because you’re talking about something that exists in this universe, you’re hypothesis needs to be based on some confirmable observation/experiment.
Interesting that you ask what denomination of Atheism I belong to! I like to call myself a Jacob Bronowski “Scientific Humanist.”

Ken Ammi

Friend, to review: I asked you to “justify your demand for proof” so a reply of “I already justified why the onus of proof of the existence of god belongs to the god-believers” is no reply but merely a repetition and you failed to justify your demand for evidence. But you do at least being to “tell us what such proof would look like” which is “deductive proof” (even if requested without a premise or elucidating why this sort and not others).

However, you assert that I am “talking about something that exists in this universe” which is the exact opposite of that which I am talking about. For example, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” our universe is a time, space, matter continuum so read it again this way “In the beginning [time], God created the heavens [space] and the earth [matter].”

Also, since God precedes time, space and matter He is not subject to the universe, does not have to exist in this universe but transcends it. I do not mean to sidetrack but may I ask: what is your view on abortion?

Real Gagne chimed in with

I’m not an atheist. I took theology and found that a lot of the bible stories don’t add up. Then I took recorded history at the same time and found that again the bible stories don’t match up with time. So it left me to ask the question “who created god?”, since some say he/she/it is above time, space and matter. Guess what? they come up with the most ridiculous answers as they go along…..eg: “god has always been and always will be”. That’s as good as no answer at all.

Ken Ammi

Well, asserting that a lot of the Bible stories “don’t add up” to what you were being taught as dogma de jour is well, just that. Good question but what makes you think that God required creation?
Just because you subjectively decided that “god has always been and always will be” is ridiculous is well, just that. We know that the universe is a time, space, matter continuum and the Bible begins with “In the beginning [time], God created the heavens [space] and the earth [matter]” and since God created it then He preexisted it and since he preexisted time, space and matter then He is not subject to them and thus, is timeless or eternal, spaceless or without extension in the special dimensions and immaterial or spirit (or, mind).

Mel K commented

Most scientists are atheists

Ken Ammi

That is what I call a half thought. It is “Something, something, something, therefore most scientists are atheists” or “Most scientists are atheists therefore something, something, something”? Where do the somethings go, what are they, where is the research study which proved that Most scientists are Atheists, and what does it matter?

Yes, you will note that most of them did not reply after their talking points were challenged.

D mo noted

A religious guy with a little basic knowledge of science using that primitive bull[****] religion to debunk one of the greatest minds of our time shame on you forever live the great Stephen Hawkings.

Ken Ammi

Friend, please mind your manners. Now, “A religious guy with a little basic knowledge of science using that primitive…religion to debunk one of the greatest minds of our time” is that which in logic is known as an ad hominem and/or genetic fallacy. Also, what scientific work did Hawking do on the issue of God? None.

Thus, you are committing the same fallacy that many pop-scientists do: you think that because he was “one of the greatest minds” only on certain issues, then that automatically qualifies him as “one of the greatest minds” on all issues. The fact is that my debunking of him was on the issue of God and not cosmogony, cosmology or astronomy.

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D mo

Ken Ammi God Is A Primitive evolving idea that exist in books

Ken Ammi

Since you just made a positive affirmation, please provide your evidence of that “God Is A Primitive evolving idea that exist in books.”

FEisBS commented

Theists claim that god exists, not only that, they say they KNOW God exists. Blind faith is only acceptable when it comes to religion.

Ken Ammi

Atheist claim that God does not exist, not only that, they say they KNOW God does not exist. Blind faith is only acceptable when it comes to Atheism (and keep in mind that according to the IRS, Michael Newdow, Atheist “churches,” etc. Atheism is a religion).

FEisBS

Ken Ammi No you are wrong , Richard Dawkins says he is only 99.9% certain God does not exist…….Atheists don’t know for sure.

Ken Ammi

Friend, let us get technical: there are two major denominations of Atheism and the adherents of one of them (known as strong Atheism, positive Atheism, explicit Atheism or critical Atheism) claim to know that God does not exist (by “faith” and without evidence), I know that “Atheists don’t know for sure” but many of them claim to know for sure and I have a list of these along with quotes: https://truefreethinker.com/articles/atheists-who-positively-affirm-god%E2%80%99s-non-existencewithout-evidence-course

Barefoot Everywhere World Awakening commented

Before you call a man an idiot with an inflated ego, you should look at yourself. You seem to think that you are a wiser form of our species, but I do not know you, I only go by your words.
As Buddha one said ” You should not speak of someone unless you have something good to say”.
Moving away from your unkind words that don’t seem very Christian like, or are they?

Buddha also said that If there is a God, God’s are beyond all comprehension and should not be so important in you life unless you are trying to achieve some kind of waited for happiness in some kind of heaven after a life of suffering. It is wiser to understand one’s self through meditation and to practice compassion. Since life is sorrow it is better to try to ease the conditions that create suffering in this life now than wait for some reward for all your pain. Did you know that Buddha lived 500 years before Christ and that most of what is said to be Christian was tough much earlier by Buddha.

There are records of Christ’s visits to the mystery schools of the east under the name of Isa, which he is called in the Quran. Buddhist philosophy has no God and works hand in hand with modern physics. There is a video here on YouTube called When Science Meets Buddhism. Maybe you should watch it. It’s funny that you call Professor Hawking an idiot since he has in a very short time rediscovered some of the ancient mysteries lost in time. What have you accomplished?

Ken Ammi

Friend, did the Buddha say that before you tell someone “Before you call a man an idiot with an inflated ego” you should know whether or not they ever called a man an idiot with an inflated ego? Since I did not such thing then your entire comment is misguided and you passed an unrighteous judgement against me: you seem to think that you are a wiser form of our species, but I do not know you, I only go by your words.

As Buddha one said “You should not speak of someone unless you have something good to say.” Moving away from your unkind words that don’t seem very Buddhist-like, or are they?

If Buddha also said that if there is a God, God is beyond all comprehension and should not be so important in your life then he was mistaken.

It is wiser to understand one’s self through true Biblical meditation and to practice compassion by first recognizing that Jesus was compassionate to us.

Okay, so you see what I am doing but I discern that you have a deep desire to end sorrow but then you must end your desire as well so that you cannot end sorrow.

Did you know that most of what you know about Buddha (if any such person ever even lived) comes from after the time of Christ and was clearly spiked with new claims made to appear more Jesus-like?
Researchers have gone to various supposed mystery schools where Jesus supposedly studied and the people there had no idea what the researchers were going on about as they know nothing of Jesus having been there.

Now, if you insist on commending me because I “call Professor Hawking an idiot” then you must actually quote me stating as much or else recognize and admit your error. If you do not do one of those two options then you will be utterly discredited by your words. What have you accomplished?

So, not very much back and forth with the commentators but some good examples of polemics.

Then there was this exchange as Cynthia Ayers

Carl here. Clickbait. Stephen Hawking has found God. Then you go on to say he doesn’t believe in God? So which is it? I really don’t want an answer just think about it.

Ken Ammi

Cynthia/Carl, he found God without realizing it. But when you ask “which is it?” you are appealing to logic so, how does your worldview provide you a premised to adhere to (and demand adherence to) logic?

Cynthia Ayers

Carl here. For I am 61 years of age, and I have Walk The Walk and I have found the world wanting.

Ken Ammi

It appears that you have no reply.

Cynthia Ayers

Carl here. Ken I wasn’t looking for an answer or a reply to my remark okay thank you.

Ken Ammi

Very well then. Based on the lack of substance of your comment I can understand why you are unable to engage the issue. I suppose the lesson learned is do not play hit-and-run-toll commentator, do not spit in someone’s face and then run off when they ask you why you did it.

Cynthia Ayers

Carl here. What do you want? I’m referring to the subject of Stephen Hawking, the narrator says Stephen Hawking has found God, then later the narrator says that he did not. You want to make something more out of my comment? I don’t need, or ask for any response from anybody.

Ken Ammi

Well, you decides to post a shot taking comment so what I want is for you to understand that what was meant is that he found God without realizing it and that since you are appealing to logic so, how does your worldview provide you a premised to adhere to (and demand adherence to) logic?

And that was that as Cynthia/Carl did not reply again.

Now, D mo also made a comment denying God’s existence so I decided to post that particular discussion at Atheist states, “Listen up everybody there it is NO GOD.”

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