Discussion on that “error correcting codes show a flaw in the creator”

universe_0.gif

The following discussion took place within the context of my video Dr. Sylvester James Gates making Neil DeGrasse Tyson desperate to hold on to Atheism.

A certain “Phantasy Photography” commented:

The following discussion took place within the context of my video Dr. Sylvester James Gates making Neil DeGrasse Tyson desperate to hold on to Atheism.

A certain “Phantasy Photography” commented:

The concept of believing in an entity such as god is an interesting one. Given the nature of the world I do believe in creation and evolution. We as humans are creators and we create many things but at the same time we ourselves could be a creation. Our creations can evolve so why can’t anyone else’s? Furthermore even though I do believe a creator to exist, I do know for a fact that if there’s a creator more intelligent than us then that person would not want to be worshiped.

Now given the size of our universe I know there will be some advanced civilization who can essentially ‘hack’ into the fabric of our universe and are aware of this code. Some of them might’ve created life on other planets and use that life as slaves. Even if you don’t think our reality can be hacked you must be aware that the potential of life in the universe is very high given the scale. We as humans have machines and can access genetic code, is it such a far stretch to assume other civilizations can create their own slave labor to worship them as Gods?

All in all, the creator of this ‘reality’ or universe would be a highly intelligent being that would not require any sort of religion to glorify it and if at all possible sometime in the past a being came here and asked the inhabitants to worship it then I reckon it was not the ‘prime’ creator of this reality but one of it’s creations that was more advanced than us looking for slave labor or to feed off of us. Our world seems to have many layers but just keep in mind that there’s a hierarchical system in place to keep our understanding at a certain level and just because our mathematics seem to make sense to our current understanding does mean it dictates everything in this reality.

I, Ken Ammi, replied:

Just curious, how do you “know for a fact that if there’s a creator more intelligent than us then that person would not want to be worshiped”?

Also, it is a non sequitur to jump from the premise of “given the size of our universe” to the conclusion “I know” which is a positing affirmation “there will be some advanced civilization…”

And as for “if at all possible sometime in the past a being came here and asked the inhabitants to worship it then I reckon it was not the ‘prime’ creator of this reality but one of it’s creations” that’s been done: you are just repeating Gnostic claims (ironically, one of those religious views that you reject).

Phantasy Photography:

True, I don’t know. For all I know there could be intelligences way smarter than us that have a negative polarity. Also we like to think of intelligence as it relates to ours which can be very far from the the truth.

All I know is that our own intelligence is heavily influenced by our mammalian brains and most of the time we’re slaves to such desires of that brain. So yes, I was incorrect with saying “I know” but then again we only know what we perceive. As for the non sequitur conclusion it wasn’t written to be fool proof thus anyone is free to interpret whatever I said as they see fit.

If anyone would like to follow up then I would say I came to that conclusion based on probability and if you’re still not satisfied do a search on the probability of there being life on other planets in our universe. I’m going to repeat a lot of what was already said in this world and I don’t have the hubris to say otherwise. If I did state gnostic claims from just a little thought into something then maybe I have a gnostic brain looool anyway the thought that sharing ideas with an established institution or belief makes us for it, is one that blinds us from seeing the bigger picture.

That’s what our brain does, people see a swastika and immediately think nazi. The existence of a creator actually has nothing to do with religion and there’s far more we don’t know than we do know so no matter what you believe it’s a still a belief.

Ken Ammi:

I appreciate your candor and am enjoying this discussion, friend. Well, this brings us to the mind vs. brain distinction (about which anyone who exercises with weights can tell you). We have a physical “mammalian brain” and a non-physical mind. Life, the universe and everything is based on preexisting information, the only known source of information is mind, and this mind is that which we call God.

Also “we only know what we perceive” depending on what you mean by “perceive” since surely all of us have stories of knowing something without knowing how we knew it—imperceptible perception, perhaps ;o)
As for “the probability of there being life on other planets in our universe” well, that is an epistemic issue much like that “we like to think of intelligence as it relates to ours” so that such supposed life is based on ours (although it seems quite certain that it would have to be carbon based, at least). There is also a chance that you are a brain in a vat and that we live in a simulation. However, it would not be engaging in hubris to deny life elsewhere since such is the evidence we have thus far.

As for having a “gnostic brain” I would wonder what your worldview is because if it is Atheistically evolutionary then what you have is a temporary and accidental brain which haphazardly evolved for survival (for some unknown reasons) and not necessarily for ascertaining empirical truth, your brain contains a random mixture of chemicals and what you call your thoughts are just byproducts of neural reactions.

So, I do wonder how your worldview provides you a premise for the existence of truth, logic and ethics and moreover, how it makes ascertaining these and holding others to them an imperative.

And that was the end his he/she and/or it never replied.

However, Jason Barr jumped in with:

The point is that error correcting codes show a flaw in the creator. That is self-evident. A perfect being doesn’t make errors. If he created beings that made errors then that itself is an error on the behalf of the creator. Perfection only begets perfection.

Ken Ammi:

Well, you seem to be employing and demanding adherence to truth, logic and ethics without a premise which makes your attempts at logic meaningless. And even if your attempts at logic are viable your conclusion is still a non sequitur due to myopia.

For example, perhaps a creator would have allowed a random number generator styled option in the code and would have accounted for that in coming along with an error correcting code. You are referring to making errors but it could be a case of allowing for error to be made by others and coming along to restore the code to what is was meant to be all along.

In other words, the creator could have purposefully created beings and allowed them to make errors as a teaching moment, etc.

A certain “Abhishek Joshi” commented:

The Thing Is If This is True That We Are living In The Simulations….Chances Are The One Who Created This Simulation Doesn’t Even Know That We have found The Evidence that we live In a simulation..Purpose Of Simulation Is to Fast Forward a Situation And seeing the result…in Our Case its Most likely that variable that they changed about our world is Extra terrestrial…Like they Wanted To know How life Would Be if There were no aliens…Soo we want to exit this simulation Then…we need to keep this silence so there would be no affect on future and they’ll never know that we found out something like this…of course when the’ll see the results its most likely that they’ll find out something is wrong..but we have soo much time to figure something out…. [all ellipses in original]

Ken Ammi:

Most interesting. However, “Chances Are” is subjective so that your jumps to conclusion are just that. Our universe is a time, space, matter continuum (whether it is a simulation or not) “In the beginning [time], God created the heavens [space] and the earth [matter]”—seems that someone told us about His creation long ago.

Abhishek Joshi:

Yeah Thats Why I said That If This Is True And if We Are Living In A Simulation..And Yeah Heavens and Earth Were Described By God AKA The one Who Created This Simulation…And The Most Intresting Fact is That If Humans created this Simulation And we take GOD as Our Creator AKA One Who Created This Simulation Then We Are Ancestors Of GOD..And I Just Love That Line…Like I’m The Frikin ancestor Of GOD..That line Kicks Some Asss…

Ken Ammi:

Well, all of that strikes me as incoherent. As for being “Ancestors Of GOD” well, through Jesus we can “become children of God”: John 1:12 “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.”

And that was the end of that one as they never replied again.

For some related info, see my books (on which I am offering a money saving deal:
Pop-Atheist Bible Expositors (featuring Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Dan Barker and Neil deGrasse Tyson)
Reasons for Being an Atheist: A Comprehensive Guide

universe_0.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help. Here is my donate page.

Due to robo-spaming, I had to close the comment sections. However, you can comment on my Facebook page and/or on my Google+ page. You can also use the “Share / Save” button below this post.