Discussion: gap theory, serpent seed, Angels, spirit bodies, etc. 13 of 15

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Continuing a discussion I had with someone on the gap theory, serpent seed, Angels, “spirit bodies,” and much more along the way (which when all are posted you will be able to find here).

For some related info, see my books (on which I am offering a money saving deal:

Continuing a discussion I had with someone on the gap theory, serpent seed, Angels, “spirit bodies,” and much more along the way (which when all are posted you will be able to find here).

For some related info, see my books (on which I am offering a money saving deal:
What Does the Bible Say About Angels – A Styled Angelology
What Does the Bible Say About Demons – A Styled Demonology
The Paranormal in Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries: Over a Millennia’s Worth of Comments on Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Satan, the Devil, Demons, the Serpent and the Dragon

Also, my Cain as Serpent Seed of Satan series.

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My reply:

I pray I find you well.

By asking “Doe God have a image or bodily form in Heaven???” I suspect that you have something up your sleeve. Actually, that you have something else up your sleeve since I have already addressed this many times. So again, Jesus said that God is a spirit and spirits do not flesh and bone. Yet, a Trinitarian has to ask what do you mean by “Doe[s] God…” since Jesus acquired a body when he incarnated and thereafter eternally inhabits it.
So, does God have an image or bodily form in heaven: Jesus does, post-incarnation. So yes, Jesus is “the image of the invisible God” and became “the image” by being born, incarnating. If God already had an image or bodily form then Jesus would not have needed to do that.
Speaking of Trinitarian theology: do you think that in heaven you would see three human shaped persons—one being the Father, one being the Son and one being the Holy Spirit?

We are not told that “Angels [were] made in the image of God”: perhaps they were yet, in keeping with understanding “image” to mean communicable (as opposed to incommunicable) attributes (as I have mentioned before) then perhaps Angles were not made in God’s image.
But why not think that “God wasn’t talking to himself when he said Let Us, make MAN in our image in our likeness”? Trinitarian theology would have no problem with this as it would be the three persons having a discussion. The other option is that God was speaking to the Angles, He told the Angels “let us” as is now the Angels played a part in creating us—which is not the case since, as you quoted it, “by him were all things created…all things were created by him…” it does not say “by him and Angels…all things were created by him and Angels.”

You claimed that Hebrews 2:14 “states that Christ also became flesh and blood as did the children and we see in scripture that angels fell and they are the sons of God then they are the children of God.”
Consider the chapter’s context thusly:
1 “we…we…we” humans.
2 refers to “the word spoken by angels” which pertained to our, human, “transgression and disobedience” and “recompence of reward.”
3 “we…we…us” humans.
5 “unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come.”
6 “man…man…him” humans.
7 “madest him a little lower than the angels…him…him” humans and Jesus.
8 “his…him…him…him” Jesus.
9 “Jesus.”
10 “him…bringing many sons unto glory” Jesus and refers to humans as “sons.”
11 “he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified…he is not ashamed to call them brethren” refers to humans as “brethren.”
12 “my brethren, in the midst of the church” humans.
13 “him…I and the children which God hath given me” Jesus and refers to humans as “children.”
14 “the children” referring to humans “are partakers of flesh and blood, he” Jesus “also himself likewise took part of the same”: we are flesh and blood and so Jesus took on, incarnated in flesh and blood.
15 “them” humans.
16 “he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham” you clearly should not have quoted this as it states the opposite of your claim.
17 “made like unto his brethren” not Angles but humans “the sins of the people.”
18 “them that are tempted” referring to humans being tempted.

When you write, “If Christ had an image then then God has an image before incarnate into flesh…” you seem to fail noticing the fact that you got that from the text (that you quoted) which states that He “is the image of the invisible God…” how and why? Because “it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell” at the incarnation. So, you are putting the image cart before the incarnation horse.

When you assert that “it is clear that since the angels fell before creation of this erets” you are doing just that: stating as assertion. On the other hand, I provided you evidence that the fall of Angels is recorded in the post-creation Genesis 6 and that Jude, Peter and Revelation 12 comment on it.
But note that you claim that Satan is an Angel, you claim that Angels were created before the creation of this erets but then you claim that God will redeem the Angels, since they are His children but that He will “destroy death which is satan.” Firstly, I am unsure where you get the idea that death is Satan (he has the “power of death” Hebrews 4:14) and secondly, if your claims are accurate then Satan will also be redeemed I mean, why not?

You claim “A ghost has an image, a likeness, a spiritual body” and Jesus claims “a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have”: since you contradict Jesus, I am sure you will understand that I will side with Him. But you may be attempting to distinguish between image, likeness and spiritual body versus flesh and bone in which case I would remind you that post-resurrection Jesus’ inhabited a spiritual body which also consisted of glorified flesh and bones.
Also, you are assuming that ghosts exist: for all you know, that was Jesus’ way of letting them know that there is no such thing such as that: “a ghost does not have flesh and bones” therefore, they do not exist—but this was just food for thought.

Yes, “our spiritual bodies will be better than the bodies we now inhabit” and I have only ever argued against a “spirit” body while I affirmed a “spiritual” body. So, since I have stated this many times I am unsure why you go on and on about it even to the point of telling me “Ken, these bodies of flesh is temporary.”

So, you do well in stating “The body we will have in heaven will be a body like Jesus’ resurrection body” and note that you ended that sentence with a citation “vv. 48, 49” but then you merely assert that “man was in another form an dimension before incarnate into flesh” and you can tell that it is an assertion because you did not end it with a citation: you did not because you could not and you could not because that is not biblical—and you know it which is why you could not quote or cite the Bible.

And a bottom line is that yes, of course, “Scripture clearly talks about earthbody and heavenly bodies” and it does so in that order: first the earthly body and then the heavenly body. What you have invented is “The first heavenly now flesh” (and whatever you meant by “and the last first”). You invented that we had heavenly bodies, then we had earthly bodies and then we will have heavenly bodies again: this is what is not biblical.

The problem is not that you were jumping around to just add verses that clearly state your point but that they do no such thing.

The reply to me reads:

I agree spirits have not flesh and bone.

That is this dimension that has flesh and bone. Jesus is not flesh and blood in Heaven. Flesh and blood can not enter into Heaven. It has to change like Enoch did. Like Moses and Elijah on the mount. What ever body that was, was their spirit body. I agree with you spirits don’t have a flesh body. They have a spirit body as I stated above this sentence. The apostles seen them on the mount in their spirit bodies or form. You are putting words into what I write that is not true. I will again clarify it: God incarnated himself into an image of himself in Heaven on earth and cloaked or covered with flesh became flesh ever how you want to say it. When you die you lose the flesh and that is your spirit body you have not flesh and bones, not flesh and blood. You say post incarnation but he had that image preincarnation for he said let us make man in our image in our likeness so how my man can you say that it is post. You can’t make an image of your self if there is no image in the first place. So yes God has an image and so do the angels. Could the invisible God be visible to the ones in heaven but invisible to the ones on earth? All I know brother is that scripture says he has a image and man would be made in that image and the us part is the angels and that Jesus is the image of God and we are the image of us the sons of God in Heaven and Jesus redeems us back and the predestioned ones are his elect that did not fall with the 1/3

You wrote: If God already had an image or bodily form then Jesus would not have needed to do that.

He made himself and others lower than the angels to teach us that satans way is wrong that God wanted a family and that sin is wrong and sin equals death and that he don’t want to destroy them so he can down with the hardships of life and we with families and work to survive how we love our family and shows us that satan only wants to destroy their lives and their souls and God shows that thru Jesus we can be saved and not destroyed the second death.

you wrote: Speaking of Trinitarian theology: do you think that in heaven you would see three human shaped persons—one being the Father, one being the Son and one being the Holy Spirit?

Water can be a solid, a liquid or a gas but it is still water. I am a husband, a parent, a nurse. Same person but three different offices. Scripture says when Moses asked who shall I say that sends me and God says I am that I am. That should suffice you.
Ken you wrote: We are not told that “Angels [were] made in the image of God”: perhaps they were yet, in keeping with understanding “image” to mean communicable (as opposed to incommunicable) attributes (as I have mentioned before) then perhaps Angles were not made in God’s image.

Communicable- what do you mean as in voice or commune with???
Ok, What is the image of Christ? Man. What image is the angels? Man
Was God talking to himself when he said let us make man in our image
So we know what the image of man is
You have to decide was God talking to himself or the sons of God

You have to decide did God choose to redeem his sons which are the Angels or did he replenish the earth for a new creation called humans and deal with satan and the 1/3 later when this creation called humans comes to a close. That he knew this creation would fall and that’s why he is called the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. I believe he is saving his sons.

Glad you can say they have a spiritual body but is that no the same thing? I never said God or the angels have a flesh and bone or flesh and blood body. not once. I said in heave they have a spirit body or spiritual body and that all whom are born from above and come thru the bag of waters in the womb take on an incarnate flesh body and when they die they lose the flesh and have spirit or spiritual bodies again.

you wrote: Trinitarian theology would have no problem with this as it would be the three persons having a discussion. The other option is that God was speaking to the Angles, He told the Angels “let us” as is now the Angels played a part in creating us—which is not the case since, as you quoted it, “by him were all things created…all things were created by him…” it does not say “by him and Angels…all things were created by him and Angels.”

So do you believe God is 3 separate persons and not one?
3 Gods?
All things are made by God.
If I say to you let’s make a ditch here and I get into the excavator and dig it then I did the work but included them in the statement. Lets go shopping and I alone pay for the clothes. ect… You kinda do that when you have a family or friends and not be a tyrant.

You stated I claim. I quoted scripture is all I done. I need to correct you on that. Now interpret whom the son’s of God are or children are – is up to you.
You claimed that Hebrews 2:14 “states that Christ also became flesh and blood as did the children and we see in scripture that angels fell and they are the sons of God then they are the children of God.”
All of it is true. How you see the verses is up to you but the verses are biblical.

Consider the chapter’s context thusly:
1 “we…we…we” humans. My Answer: Paul is saying that we need to pay more attention to the things that the prophets have written. This “let them slip”, in the Greek is like letting a liquid to leak out of an open container. If you are taking a verse here, and a word there, and a phrase somewhere else, and not taking heed to God’s Word as a whole, and becoming more involved in the worldly things than what you have learned from His Word is going to leak out of your memory. You are going to lose it. God’s Word will seem less and less like a reality to you, and become more like a religion. It will become just a religious form that you will follow.

2 refers to “the word spoken by angels” which pertained to our, human, “transgression and disobedience” and “recompence of reward.” My Answer If the word spoken by angels was true, and if you earnestly pay attention to the Word, in time you will be corrected for every transgression and disobedience that you have committed. Paul is saying that every time that God corrects you, it is proof that the Word of God is true. Each correction that you receive is additional proof that God does keep His Word. God Word states what the just reward will be for a certain act committed. God will keep His Word, and when you sin, God will correct you and you can count on it.

3 “we…we…us” humans. My Answer: Today most people are indifferent to true “salvation”, because they have changed the Word and let it slip from the manuscripts until their idea of God’s Word has become nothing more than their traditions. They have become indifferent by their exchanging man’s ideas and doctrines, for those instructions recorded in God’s Word.

Ken you left out 4.

Hebrews 2:4 “God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to His own will?”

It is according to God’s own will what gifts that you receive, and what signs and wonders are made understandable to you. Those that God had chosen before the foundations of this earth age, were elected for a purpose. The gifts that you receive are according to the destiny that God has for you in this earth age of the flesh, and they were destined from that first earth age. All souls will live in both the first and second earth age, however some souls will not be allowed into the eternal age. However to this time, there has not been one soul destroyed yet, not even Satan and his fallen angels. But when the Millennium age is over, then Satan and all those that follow Him will “go into the lake of fire and perish”.

5 “unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come.” My Answer: This “world to come” is right here on earth, but it will be a new rejuvenated earth age. God did not put the control of destiny of the new age under any angel, but He put it under the control of His Son, Jesus Christ.

6 “man…man…him” humans. My answer: The one that testified was David, and it is recorded in Psalm 8:4 “What is man, that Thou art mindful of Him? And the son of man, that Thou visitest Him?” What is there in flesh man that causes Almighty God to have any interest in Him? Why is it that God would crown the “Son of man” with honor?

7 “madest him a little lower than the angels…him…him” humans and Jesus. My Answer: The subject here is Jesus Christ, and this verse is a continuation of Psalm 8:4.
Psalm 8:5 “For Thou hast made him a little lower then the angels, And hast crowned him with glory and honour.” When Christ came in the flesh He was made a little lower then the angels for that short period of time until he went to the cross and died. This was because the angels were in a spiritual body, and Christ was in the flesh body. The question is, why was God so mindful of man that He would take his own Son and make him lower then the angels? Though man in the flesh is corrupt and sin, Christ did not sin while He was in the flesh. Why put Your Son in that lower state of the a Human Body when he did not have to? The answer is Ken that God will never ask you to do anything or put you through anything that He has not done Himself. God expects all souls from the first earth age to go through it, and enter this age through the womb of woman, to be born of the water that is of the birthing process. Many of the angels refused to do this, and that is what we read about at the end of Hebrews, and when we read the book of Jude.

The difference between Jesus Christ and man, is that though He was a little lower the angels in the flesh body, He was still perfect. That was necessary for Jesus Christ to become the perfect sacrifice, once and for all times.

Hebrews 2:8 “Thou hast put all things in subjection under His feet.” For in that He put all in subjection under Him, He left nothing that is not put under Him. But now we see not yet all things put under Him.

This time has not yet happened, for the time Jesus “will put all things in subjection under His feet” will come at the end of this earth age. That time is at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, when all flesh will be done away with. Then Christ will return to earth with a shout, and the kingdom of Jesus Christ will begin. However, now we are still in the time of Satan’s darkness, and it is important to make sure that the knowledge that we do have will not leave us. Many things that are going to happen prophetically we will see, and yet the full knowledge of it will not come until after the end of this flesh age or at death.

By the way, Do you believe in a pre mid or post Trib? Just curious.

Let me break here and say. I am human, I was a spiritual being prior to incarnate and will be a spirit being again. Right now I am flesh so yes it is talking to me
as human so that I made be spiritual AGAIN…… ;o)

I think this should suffice.

You wrote: When you write, “If Christ had an image then then God has an image before incarnate into flesh…” you seem to fail noticing the fact that you got that from the text (that you quoted) which states that He “is the image of the invisible God…” how and why? Because “it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell” at the incarnation. So, you are putting the image cart before the incarnation horse.

So Ken are you saying that God is invisible to the Angels and all the host of Heaven? That he had no form? So did God who wanted a family and Created the Son’s of God the Angels stay invisible to them and he was just a voice like the great OZ in the wizard of Oz then and why would an invisible God talk to himself. If you want to have a family and want companionship and to be loved not feared you are gonna be seen with all your Glory and splendor and love and mercy. You are not gonna be invisible. He is invisible to us because of sin and we are flesh right now. Adam and Eve knew God. He walked with them in the Garden. So if he was invisible who walked with Adam and Eve if Christ had no form prior to incarnate into baby Jesus. Also who was Melchizedek. Was he not God? It was when sin came and they knew good and evil that God withdrew from Adam and Eve.

Did you ever think of these things???

If I got a woman pregnant and never let my son see me and only talked to him over a phone what kind of parent would I be? Why would God need a throne? Why would he ride in a Vehicle as in Ezekiel Chapter one? Why is there praises to someone unseen. This is where you need to connect we we we… humans. Christ was right that if I tell you of heavenly things how will you understand? For this reason he put blinders on them.

God is seen in heaven by his spirit creations and on earth as Melchizedek and as Emmanuel Jesus the Christ.
And what is wrong with using a quote? Have you ever looked up a verse or a quote to see if you are correct? There you have it. The truth is the truth no matter where it comes from brother.
Peace.
John 14:9
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”

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