At the Quora site, someone asked What happened to the children of the Nephilim?
A certain Donald Fernandes (“Diploma Comparative Religion Studies (1977)”) replied:
I have stressed in many of my posts that the Nephilims were not angels or giants or divine beings. They were the ‘’black faced ones’’ or the ‘’watchers’’ or the ‘’fallen ones’’.
They were the dark complexioned people who migrated from the Indus Valley to the plains of Mesopotamia and started what we know as the Sumerian Civilization.
They were dark complexioned unlike the fair skinned Semitic tribes. But there was something more to the Nephilims: they were very intelligent; they had excellent knowledge of science and technology. They were great architects and civil engineers. They were also mathematicians and metallurgists. They were educators.
They needed labor for their ambitious projects and the pastoral Semitic people provided it. The Semitic people admired them and literally considered them as divine beings and men of renown and giants in knowledge. They were not physical giants.
The Nephilims were ruling the Semitic people. The dark complexioned Nephilims were attracted by the fair Semitic girls and they married as many as they wanted. Children were born to them. They were multi-colored and their population grew. After some time, the Semitic tribes could not endure the genetic insult and the presence of the multi-colored race. So they decided to revolt.
In that great war, the Nephilims and their descendants were almost wiped out. Read the the poem, ’’The Lamentations of Ur’’. It describes how things happened. Today the Samaritans are believed to be the children of the Nephilims. The Ethiopians, the Eritreans and the Tuaregs are also considered to be linked to the Sumerian people.
I, Ken Ammi, replied:
Indeed, Nephilim “were not angels or giants or divine beings” but where the offspring of Angels and so were half-“divine beings” and as for “giants” well, it depends on what one means by that multi-usage word (but if someone is thinking it refers to being subjectively unusually tall then we have no reliable physical description of them).
Now, you say they “were not angels” but say “They were…watchers’’ or the ‘’fallen ones’’” and Watcher is just a Second Temple Era manner whereby to refer to Angles, “fallen ones” in this case.
Now, I’ve no idea how you claim to know the color of their faces nor the other very detailed things you assert about them.
I have stressed that the Nephilims called themselves the ‘’black faced ones’’ because their complexion was very dark. The Semitic people also called them the dark faced ones. I got many of my answers from the Book of Genesis. It says that ‘’the daughters of men were fair’’.
In contrasts the Nephilims or the Anunnaki were dark. Sumerian literature refers to the Sumerian people as the ‘’black faced ones’’. The Sumerians are the migrants from the Indus Valley who discovered the ‘’brick’’ culture and brought it to Mesopotamia. The Indus people are described by the fair complexioned Vedic Aryans in the Rig Veda as ‘’Black faced demons or Ogres’’.
You can read the Rig Veda and see it for yourself. There are numerous references. The Aryans destroyed the Indus civilization. The survivors came to Mesopotamia.
Well friend, of course you “stressed that the Nephilims called themselves the ‘black faced ones’ because their complexion was very dark” but I had noted, “no idea how you claim to know the color of their faces nor the other very detailed things you assert about them” so you say “The Semitic people also called them the dark faced ones” but whence did you get that idea?
“fair” does not refer to color in Gen 6 but to beautiful, the Hebrew is “tob” as in good, pleasant, agreeable, etc.
It seems that you are just reading Nephilim into any and every text that refers to someone who is somehow odd.
I am sorry, ‘fair’ is a fair word for a fair complexion. The King James Version clearly says that the daughters of men were ‘’beautiful’’ and the NIV also says they were ‘’beautiful’’, but I say that they were fair in complexion because, they could also be ‘’dark’’ and beautiful but that would not have been acceptable for the Hebrews who were of the fair complexioned Semitic race. In some Bibles they use the word ‘’fair’’. I use the word ‘’fair’’ because it could also include beauty, but that would make little difference.
The important point is the Sumerians or the Nephilims were dark complexioned in contrast to the fair Semitic people(beauty is only an option). The Nephilims insisted on being called the ‘’black’ faced ones. If they say that then I cannot call them fair complexioned. They must be dark. This is not my imagination. It is plain logic. The people of the Indus Valley were also ‘’black’’ faced based on the evidence in the Rig Veda. The Indus people and the Sumerians were one and the same. Both were dark complexioned.
But you see, the natural reading is that they found them attractive, fair. Now, you say they found them attractive because they were fair skinned but in order to do that you have to then invent a story to wrap around it such as that “‘dark’ and beautiful but that would not have been acceptable for the Hebrews who were of the fair complexioned Semitic race” even though the Hebrews included quite a mixture of genetics from various nationalities.
Recall that I noted, “you ‘stressed that the Nephilims called themselves the ‘black faced ones’ because their complexion was very dark’ but I had noted, ‘no idea how you claim to know the color of their faces nor the other very detailed things you assert about them’ so you say ‘The Semitic people also called them the dark faced ones’ but whence did you get that idea?”
Well, this time you merely just keep repeating your assertion, “The Nephilims insisted on being called the ‘’black’ faced ones” where, how do you know that?
“They must be dark” what make you think that?
Hi Ken, we are dealing with events that are 5000 years old. I will explain why I call them the ‘’Black faced ones’’. The Sumerians or the Nephilims were not indigenous people. They were migrants from the Indus civilization and spoke the same language. The Vedic scripture called the Rig Veda calls the Indus people literally ‘’black faced devils’’.
A group of the Indus people(survivors) migrated to Mesopotamia. Do you think their complexion would have changed? Has any European become black in color during the last 100,000 years. None! If I say I am dark complexioned can anyone counter and tell me, you are white. I am dark and I am stating it.
There is no more to it. Sumerian literature frequently refers to the Sumerian people as the ‘’black faced ones,’’ (Please refer to Sumerian literature) because they were dark complexioned. The Cretans and the Egyptians were not fair, they were dark. Please see the Cretan frescoes. A rotten European archaeologist told the workers to paint the subjects white to make them look like Europeans. You can see that too. You can also see the steles in the Egyptian Museum of Antiquities in Cairo, all the subjects are brown. They did not paint themselves white or pink, because they just could not.
They were brown. But when the Sumerians came into contact with the fair skinned indigenous Semitic people who were not brown or black(all Semites are fair), the dark complexioned Sumerians could not but admire the fair Semitic girls and they married them. The Sumerians were the ‘’Sons of God’’ because of their knowledge. The fair Semitic people were laborers who came to work at the building sites(Babel). One group of Semites led by their patriarch Abram also came to the ‘’Ur’’ of the Chaldees to do business and find work for his people.
This group was called the ‘’Habirus’’, who later became Hebrews. They were essentially cattle raiders, thieves and highway robbers, until the Hebrew God chose them as his own people. Slavery was rife at that time and black slaves from Africa were imported to the Levante. So people knew what was a dark complexion and what was not. I cannot do better than this.
I appreciate the elucidation but will note that you base that on assertions at key points.
Examples, “why I call them the ‘Black faced ones’” but what you call them is not the issue, the issue is that you claimed, “Nephilims called themselves the ‘black faced ones’” so I was asking where they did so: can you provide a quotation and citation?
“Sumerians or the Nephilims” but what makes you think that Sumerians were Nephilim?
“They were migrants from the Indus civilization” but what makes you think that?
Thus, “the Rig Veda calls the Indus people literally ‘black faced devils’” but, again, why think that those people were Nephilim?
As for “Do you think their complexion would have changed?” not the individuals but we know very well of a parent who is “Black” having a “White” child or visa versa: when the “Black” parent marries a “White” spouse or visa versa.
“Sumerian literature frequently refers to the Sumerian people as the ‘black faced ones’” but, again, why think they were Nephilim?
Note that you then go from claiming that Sumerian people were Nephilim to that “The Sumerians were the ‘Sons of God’” who were the Nephilim’s dads.
BTW: form what I heard, the Sphinx’s nose was blown off by a cannon shot because it looked too “African” (“Black”) for the “Whites” who encountered it.
I appreciate your doubts. The first point is whether the Sumerians, the black faced ones, the Indus people, the Nephilims and the Sons of God are the same or not. The answer is an emphatic YES. Now where is the proof?
The names, the Nephilims or the Sons of God or Giants occur in the Book of Genesis, the Torah. Christianity did not exist then hence I do not refer to the Bible. The Sumerian literature clearly identifies the Sumerians as calling themselves as the Black faced ones. The Book of Genesis also points out that the men(Sumerians) migrated from the East and settled down in a plain in the Land Shinar. The word Sumer means a land far away in the east.
So the black faced ones came from the East, but from where? Given the period, there is only one possibility – the Indus Civilization – a Brick Culture. The men brought this brick culture to Mesopotamia to Sumer and built cities and the tower of Babel. If the Sumerians were dark complexioned then surely the people in their land of origin would have the same complexion.
The Sumerians not only brought the brick culture they also brought architecture, civil engineering, mathematics, law, medicine, literature, poetry, metallurgy, physics, geometry and trigonometry, writing, documenting, primary education for children and many others. This period is around C. 4500 BCE to C. 3500 BCE. Samuel Noah Kramer, the pre-eminent Sumeriologist, calls Sumer ‘’The Cradle of Civilization’’ and they were dark complexioned. The Book of Genesis calls the Sumerians the Nephilims, Giants(in knowledge), Sons of God, Men of Renown for obvious reasons. The Sumerians were non-violent and a people with a very fine sense of diplomacy.
The Semitic people were fair complexioned but illiterate. They were mostly camel drivers, shepherds looking after sheep, goats and donkeys and were migrants with cattle stock. Abraham, the patriarch was a Semite who came to the Ur of Chaldees seeking a fortune. He belonged to the tribe of the Habirus or Hebrews who were essentially shepherds but on some occasions resorted to engage in thieving and high way robbery.
During the construction of the Tower of Babel, many Semites worked as laborers under the Sumerians. The Book of Genesis says the daughters of men(Semitic) were beautiful. Beauty is a degree of physical attraction. Some Christian Bible use the word ‘’fair’ and that refers to complexion in general and in contrast to the dark complexioned Nephilims who married many of the Semitic, fair, complexioned girls and produced a new race, This made the Hebrew god YAWEH very angry.
If you read the Rig Veda and Sumerian literature you will certainly get your answers from two different cultures.
Friend, you keep making un-evidenced assertions. For example, you say “The names, the Nephilims or the Sons of God or Giants occur in the Book of Genesis, the Torah” but:
1) It’s not “Nephilims or the Sons of God or Giants” since the sons of God fathered the Nephilim (and “Giants” simply renders “Nephilim”).
2) You claim that but don’t provide quotations or citations—but it’s not true, anyhow.
I have no idea what that “Christianity did not exist then” has to do with anything.
So, we are back to you repeating that Sumerians were “calling themselves as the Black faced ones” but don’t say why we should think that Sumerians were Nephilim.
Yes, “The Book of Genesis also points out that the men” but you artificially insert “(Sumerians)” so once again, you are beginning with asserted conclusions rather than arguing to them.
So, from Sumer and before that from the Indus Civilization, their “Brick Culture” and Mesopotamia: what has any of that to do with Nephilim? You merely assert, “The Book of Genesis calls the Sumerians the Nephilims, Giants(in knowledge), Sons of God, Men of Renown for obvious reasons” but your only (pseudo) obvious reason has to do with supposed skin color.
Yes sir, we are dealing with events that are more than 5000 years old, a period even historians are afraid to make any statements.
But that does not prevent us from giving a possible solution. I am not the expert. But the closest we can come to the truth is by what is most possible in given circumstances. We should never go to the level of gods and angels, because they are fictitious and meant for the gullible.
Everything is going on at the human plane. If the Sumerians and the Nephilims were dark complexioned what is the problem! Whatever I have quoted are from books on archaeology and ancient history. Please read some books on Sumerian literature, you may find many things that I have said in my discussion.
The period we are discussing is the arrival of the migrant people from the East who brought the brick culture and the science of building cities and towers. Until then there was nothing in Mesopotamia and Palestine. No white people created any kind of civilization in the history of mankind. All of them were brown – the Minoans, the Indus people, the Egyptians and the Sumerians. Why this is so I do not know. Beyond this I cannot argue.
Well friend, you clearly do not understand that you keep making one assertion after another one and cannot provide any evidence for your assertions at all.
But now, you say “gods and angels…are fictitious” which is a positive affirmation that you must prove.
As I said earlier, the events in the Book of Genesis are almost 5000 years old and you are asking for evidence. Some people say whatever that comes to their mind. I have tried to explain everything in human terms. Whatever I have said is in books. Please read books like ‘’Inanna the Queen of Heaven’’, and ‘’Sumer, the Cradle of Civilization’’.
Till date very few archaeologists or historians have been able to provide data on a scale you want. Mostly, it is speculations. As for the gods and angels, please read some books by Erik Von Daniken. A lot of people get carried away by the stories of the Nephilims and the Anunnaki. There is nothing spectacular in these stories.
Friend, you made assertions, I keep asking for evidence, and now you admit you have none: it’s that simple.
If “Inanna the Queen of Heaven” and “Sumer, the Cradle of Civilization” and Erik Von Daniken said that Nephilim had dark skin then you would have quoted them long ago.
In case you’re interested, see my books: https://truefreethinker.com/no-end-books-publications
What Does the Bible Say About Giants and Nephilim? A Styled Giantology and Nephilology
Nephilim and Giants in Bible Commentaries: From the 1500s to the 2000s
Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010
The Apocryphal Nephilim and Giants: Encountering Nephilim, and Giants in Extra-Biblical Texts
The Scholarly Academic Nephilim and Giants: What do Scholarly Academics Say About Nephilim Giants?
The Pastoral Nephilim and Giants: What Do Pastors Teach and Preach?
Nephilim and Giants as per Pop-Researchers: A comprehensive consideration of the claims of I.D.E. Thomas, Chuck Missler, Dante Fortson, Derek Gilbert, Brian Godawa, Patrick Heron, Thomas Horn, Ken Johnson, L.A. Marzulli, Josh Peck, CK Quarterman, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba, Gary Wayne, Jim Wilhelmsen, et al.
Nephilim and Giants: Believe It or Not! Ancient and Neo-Theo-Sci-Fi Tall Tales
On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not? A survey of early Jewish and Christian commentaries including noted on giants and the Nephilim
The Paranormal in Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries: Over a Millennia’s Worth of Comments on Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Satan, the Devil, Demons, the Serpent and the Dragon
And that, as they say, was that.
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