Find all segments of this debate here.
TheAtheistChef then trails off into a well-within-the-box-Atheist-groupthink-talking point-de jour when he merely assert that “pagans arent doing anything right NOW” which is simply inaccurate and that, here we go, “Pagans arent the one in charge and trying to abandon scientific method in favor of their religious beliefs.”
This, in part, depends on how one defines Pagan as it can 1) refer to ritualistic Earth worship. Also, some Christians would argue that 2) there are only two theologies when it all comes down to it: Christianity and Paganism. Yet, moreover, I have often argued that 3) Atheism is Neo-Pagan as they replace awe in God with awe in nature (see Romans Ch. 1 and my writing on this point here).
So, are Pagans the ones in charge and trying to abandon scientific method in favor of their religious beliefs? Well, the scientific method was invented by Bible believers so his assertion is dead in the water before it even gets going—no abiogenesis for that assertion.
As per above let us again ask if Pagans the ones in charge and trying to abandon scientific method in favor of their religious beliefs: 1) “ritualistic Earth worship” need not only be thought of as Druids gathered around Stonehenge but about Pagan Earth-Gaia worship in the form of “Earth Day,” climate change mania, etc. (recall that in the 70s it was the Earth Freezing or Cooling mania, then came Global Warming mania and now the generic Climate Change mania). 2) “only two theologies” would mean that anyone at all seeking to undermine the true scientific method would be Paganizing in a sort of way.
3) “Atheism is Neo-Pagan” and is why people believe that time’did’it, matter’did’it, change’did’it, accidents’did’it, nothing caused nothing to explode for no reason and made everything without meaning, lightning struck a swamp and life came about from non-life (puff that up with whatever terms make your imagination soar such as “prebiotic sea,” deep ocean vents, the backs of crystals, etc., etc., etc.) which are things about which the scientific method can result in nothing since they are worldview philosophies and not science.
Not only did TheAtheistChef trail off into science, which was never an issue, but they turn his attention from the Jews in the Old Testament and references, “christian[s]…killing for sacrifices” which has also not been an issue and in fact, is not one: just when did or do “Christian[s]…killing for sacrifices”?
Next, he makes a Logic 101 and Law 101 level mistake by confusing, equating and correlating “killing” and “murder.” He desperately searches the Bible for any “HINT” that God is contradicting Himself, herein within the context of sacrificial “killing” and then proclaims just that: God contradicts Himself regarding sacrificial “killing.” Well, as we have seen, TheAtheistChef is simply misunderstanding basic concepts and narratives.
In this case, he does not distinguish between “killing” the legal and moral taking of a life (such as due to self-defense, just wars, etc.) and “murder” the illegal and immoral taking of life (such as during a robbery, abortion, etc.). Thus, it is not in the least bit contradictory for God to command “killing” in the form of capital punishment / the death penalty and also condemn “murder.” But TheAtheistChef committed a category mistake and thus, concludes contradiction where there are none.
He then states that “I can easily condemn the evil acts perpetrated by any religion and be justified.” Yes he can “an easily condemn” anything yet, as I aforementioned anyone can say anything: the issue is can he justify his statement via appeal to anything more than an assertion which is piled upon another and another ad infinitum? Just because he makes a statement does not mean that he has provided a viable premise upon which to make it, upon which to base his condemnation.
He all but admits this, in a round about manner, in admitting that his view is that “we dont have access to some sort of Objective morality” which proves my point to him, in the first place, about how “…Atheism has left you unable to condemn anything at all on any basis but whatever unfounded assertion strikes you at any given time—and that makes for no condemnation at all.”
Thus, he agrees that he has to “RELY on those electro-chemical processes residing in biochemical bodies” which haphazardly evolved. Of course, since my biochemistry differs from his, it is no wonder that we disagree.
And yet, on the other hand we do agree after all because, in reality, we are both made in God’s image and have His “Objective morality” written in our hearts.
He again falls in to relativism—of course as a natural result of believing that “we dont have access to some sort of Objective morality”—so “we have to use that to figure out our morality” and so does ISIS. They too set up goals for themselves and the world around them, and societal health as they see it (constantly keep in mind that this is in keeping with denying “Objective morality”).
Lastly, TheAtheistChef piled error upon error as he “refuse[s] to follow by a system that is inconsistent, self-contradictory” which it is not as I have proved to him. Also, he states that it “has currently so far, NOT BEEN WORKING.” Well, I am ultimately unsure of that to which he is referring exactly but we have been discussing the Bible. Well, the fact is that the majority of the planet’s population consists of Christians thus, it is working just fine. Moreover, even on an evolutionary worldview philosophy one could conclude, without evidence, that theism developed as a Darwinian survival mechanism and since Christians are the majority this proves that Christians is the most successful Darwinian survival mechanism and Atheists should convert.
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