Contra circumcision arguments rear their ugly heads—again

Every now and then comes a wave of contra circumcision arguments which are answered, go away, and yet, only to return time and again.

In this case, I was watching a live stream of the video titled, “Author Bruce de Torres discusses his book God, School, 9/11 and JFK…” when a certain “nivad17” commented this in the live chat:

Trauma Based Mind Control, goes all the way back to the beginning of human history, circumcision rites, whole congregation gathered together to watch slaughter and sacrifices, etc.

And posted another comment straight away which read:

causes disassociative consciousness

I, Ken Ammi, replied:

Non sequitur to jump from circumcision to slaughter and sacrifices

nivad17:

how so?

Ken Ammi:

Because circumcision is in another category than slaughter and sacrifices

nivad17:

how so?

Ken Ammi:

Circumcision is not slaughter and sacrifices

nivad17:

but it is trauma and induces disassociative consciousness

Ken Ammi:

But that’s not what you said and so not that to which I was replying.

nivad17:

but that IS what i said

Ken Ammi

Whereabouts?

NOTE: Now, given the nature of a live chat—the rapidity with which it moves along being based on how many people are posting comments—I made a slight mistake here and did not scroll up in the discussion in order to double check nivad17’s original comment. Thus, lesson learned.

In any case, nivad17:

two different examples of ancient rites that are trauma based

Ken Ammi

Now you’re just serving some under cooked red herring.

NOTE: That was mostly based on my slight mistake but still, correlating circumcision rites with watching slaughter and sacrifices even if in terms of “Trauma Based Mind Control” is still a stretch—to say the least.

In any case, I followed up with:

If I may: are you male and circumcised?

NOTE: I was going to ask if he, assuming that nivad17 is a “he” suffered from “disassociative consciousness” due to circumcision but, alas, we never got that far.

nivad17:

i’m not trying to be a troll, i am genuinely not following why you think i introduced a non-sequitr and a red herring

Ken Ammi:

No worries and I’m not either. Let’s move to: are you male and circumcised?

nivad17:

so a non-sequitr is something that does not follow from logic, correct? i don’t understand where the non-sequitr was in the comment in question.

it would be helpful to me to understand this before moving on

Ken Ammi:

A non-sequitur is a conclusion that doesn’t follow from the premise. Perhaps you can categorize circumcision as traumatic but then again, so is childbirth.

nivad17:

(i am thinking of leviticus) the sacrifices themselves were not trauma, it was food production, but the fact that the levitical priests gathered the whole congregation to watch (women and children) as well, is what i am calling trauma based

Ken Ammi:

Then go ahead and say that childbirth is trauma based.

nivad17:

i am not following. childbirth is definitely traumatic, but it is not an unnecessary action done to someone else with the purpose of inducing trauma

Ken Ammi:

Ah, so your hidden assumption is that circumcision is done “with the purpose of inducing trauma” so that’s a faulty premise.

And you might as well say that men get women pregnant with the purpose of inducing the trauma of childbirth.

nivad17:

yes that is assumption and premise i was operating under.

Ken Ammi:

Indeed and since that’s just a prejudicial assertion it was, after all, as I noted: a non-sequitur.

nivad17:

if that is not correct, then what is the purpose?

Ken Ammi:

Since [you] appealed to the Torah, I figured you’d know. Now, will you say that about men impregnating women?

nivad17:

an assumption i formulated that included studies outside the Torah. but anyhow, what is the true purpose?

Ken Ammi:

Indeed, yours was a mere assumption. It is a sign that the child is being declared a part of God’s chosen people, a member of the congregation, etc.

NOTE: At this point, the video was about to end and so I left nivad17 with:

Got nothin’ but love for you, appreciate the interaction.

NOTE: nivad17’s reference to “included studies outside the Torah” pertains to that other cultures also practiced circumcision and did so for their own purposes: perhaps even as a means of “Trauma Based Mind Control” so as to cause “disassociative consciousness,” such is why I was arguing my side of the argument based on my point of view as a Messianic Jew.

For more details, see my relevant books.

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