Catholic Apologetics Fail, 1 of 7

Front cover - Catholic_0.jpg

The following discussion took place due to a video titled, “Roman Catholicism: Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia.” Once all segments are posted, you will find them all here.

A Catholic who goes by R. Zell commented and it led to what is really an exposure of the Catholic apologists’ failed tactics.

Zell began by commenting (noted that Zell tended to place a lot of links to videos in the comments which I am not including so as to not essentially advertise):

The following discussion took place due to a video titled, “Roman Catholicism: Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia.” Once all segments are posted, you will find them all here.

A Catholic who goes by R. Zell commented and it led to what is really an exposure of the Catholic apologists’ failed tactics.

Zell began by commenting (noted that Zell tended to place a lot of links to videos in the comments which I am not including so as to not essentially advertise):
Here is the only verse I need to make the case of why Christ left us the ordinary way to come to salvation thru the Church we call Catholic:
Ephesians 3:10 NASB
so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
I suggest you read the whole Chapter 3.

Ken Ammi
Just to double check: are you aware that “catholic” means “universal” and not “The Roman Catholic Church” and that “church” refers to all believers and not “The Roman Catholic Church”?

R. Zell
Yes, I am aware that Catholic means universal and I do not agree with your assertion that the Church we call Catholic is not the Catholic Church found in Rome.
Every single Church established by the full Authority of the Apostles to establish the Church is One Church. That Church eventually ended up in Rome. The heart of the pagan Roman Empire. Wherever the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven are, that is where that Church we meet in Acts 2 is.
All Believers of what? All Arian Believers? All Gnostic Believers? All Sabellian Believers? All Nestorian Believers? All heretics believe in their churches. But not all churches are Apostolic.
Tell me your denomination or cult and I will tell you who invented it and when.
Who started your religion

Ken Ammi
Well, it is rather odd to claim that “the Catholic Church found in Rome” the “One Church” is the one we meet in Acts 2, or anywhere else in the NT, since the whole NT knows nothing of a church wherein there is a Pope, a priesthood, some of the Catholic sacraments, etc. But if the Catholic Church found in Rome possessed the oral tradition from the Apostles I would like to be directed to a statement by the Apostle preserved by Catholicism that is not in the NT.

R. Zell
Ken Ammi Hi Ken. Its not odd at all to claim that the Church in Rome is the same as the one in all of the Acts of the Apostles. I have a video comeing out by Monday or Tuesday (I’m traveling right now) showing the Universality of the Church. Surfice it to say for now that In Acts 15 we see the power of the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven exercised by the Apostles along with the elders and the entire church, hand down a ruling BINDING the entire Apostolic Church, as well a LOOSING the requirement that the Gentile Converts were to undergo circumcison and follow the ceremonial Mosaic Law. That Church is ONE: Yes or No? As it ever crossed your mind what the Apostles would have done if an individual or a church would have decided they disagreed with the Apostles and thus the HOly SPIRIT. See Matthew 18:15-20. Now Pope means Papa. The Coptic Church has a Pope as well. Have you asked that question to them? There were Bishops in the Church (See Acts 1 and Pauls epistles). We do find a priesthood in the infant church that was developing as the church was growing, example: Stephen, Phillip, etc. The Oral Tradition known as the Apostolic Tradition, was indeed used in the Early Church. Paul states several sayings of Jesus not found in the 4 gospels. The Gnostics were refuted by Iraneaus and Ignatius using the Apostolic Tradition. Atanasius refuted the Arian Heretics using the Apostolic Tradition to refute them and 318 Bishops of the Church and their legates all agreed with the Apostolic Tradition. THe Indcaration, Hypostatic Union, the Blessed Trinity are all examples of the Apostolic Tradition. I do have part 1 of the video I mentioned above. Would you like to watch and listen to it and tell me what you do not agree with. Of course I would expect you to use logiic and reason when addressing the video. I always assume Christian Charity when debating. Hopefully you do as well. Acts 15 – The Universality of the Church we call Catholic –

Ken Ammi
Friend, I understand the Catholic modus operandi: you know that key Catholic doctrine is not in the Bible (the ones I noted and transubstantiation, etc.) so you seek to get around it by claiming that since you have authority then you can invent any historically unknown doctrine and claim they are legit.
Perhaps I should ask: if you possess the not in the NT oral tradition from the Apostles can you quote to me one single word spoken by an Apostle that is preserved by Catholicism and is not found in the NT?
Yes, “That” NT “Church is ONE” and yes, the church is one which means that the church is the remnant of true believers which are found in Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, etc.
You ask if it ever crossed my mind what the Apostles would have done if an individual or a church would have decided they disagreed with the Apostles and thus the Holy Spirit. Yes, it crossed my mind and the minds of the reformers who recognized that Catholicism disagreed with the Apostles and thus the Holy Spirit on various issues.
Yes, there were Bishops in the Church but no, we find no priesthood in the infant church whatsoever. Keep in mind that just calling oneself “Bishop” does not mean one is legit (although one might be) and simply writing “Stephen, Phillip, etc.” does not mean they were priests (unless you want to rightly claim that we are all a “holy priesthood…a royal priesthood” which was ironically written by the alleged first Pope—1 Peter 2:5, 9).
You may be interested in my book “In Consideration of Catholic Doctrines, Traditions and Dogmas.”
But, perhaps we can set all of the above aside for a moment as I am curious about something: is believing in the Assumption of Mary, for example, necessary for salvation?

We will continue from here in the next segment. In the meanwhile, for info see my book In Consideration of Catholic Doctrines, Traditions and Dogmas (on which I am offering a money saving deal).

Front cover - Catholic_0.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help. Here is my donate page.

Due to robo-spaming, I had to close the comment sections. However, you can comment on my Facebook page and/or on my Google+ page. You can also use the “Share / Save” button below this post.