The Grace Digital Network YouTube channel posted a video titled Before the Flood: WHAT WAS THE WORLD LIKE BEFORE THE FLOOD which led to the following discussion after a certain (YT user name) @dragonhawkeclouse2264 noted
In the passage you quoted from Job, it doesNOT say angels…..you ADDED that word in there to be able to claim that the “sons of god” were angels
There is far more reason to believe that they were humans, NOT angels……you are twisting passages……and if you have to twist passages, what does that say about your beliefs
TRASH
@kenammi355
Job 38:7 makes it clear that “sons of God” can refer to non-human beings and the LXX has that as “Angelos.”
@dragonhawkeclouse2264
i don’t really care what a greek or latin translation of the text says. There is nothing in the book of Job that says that they are angels
it references their existence before the foundations of the earth, and if you know judaism, judaism says that the souls of Israel existed before such
so, fail
@kenammi355
Friend, you jumped right past the context to complain about Greek and Latin. So let’s back up: you say, “There is nothing in the book of Job that says that they are angels” but I noted, “Job 38:7 makes it clear that ‘sons of God’ can refer to non-human beings” so: who are they? I’m going to guess that by “Judaism” you really mean “Rabbinic Judaism” and if that’s the case then I’m unsure what Rabbinic Judaism has to do with a pre-Rabbinic Judaism text.
Also, Jude and 2 Peter 2 combined refer to a sin of Angels, place that sin to pre-flood days and correlate it to sexual sin which occurred after the Angels, “left their first estate,” after which they were incarcerated, and there’s only a one-time fall/sin of Angels in the Bible.
The original, traditional, and majority view among the earliest Jewish and Christians commentators, starting in BC days, was the “Angel view” as I proved in my book, “On the Genesis 6 Affair’s Sons of God: Angels or Not?: A Survey of Early Jewish and Christian Commentaries Including Notes on Giants and the Nephilim.”
@dragonhawkeclouse2264
I will be honest here, i didn’t remember everything i said here….and from looking at the post that you are responding to…..Judaism-what?……Judaism is NOT mentioned ANYWHERE in that comment…..once again you are twisting things to try to make things fit what you want…..you deemed Judaism, not me…..i don’t know why you deemed it to be Judaism, but, oh well
i disagree with Judaism and christianity in MANY places…..and, how am i complaining about the greek and latin?…..i do think that they are inferior…..but, i said nothing about that
i go with the Hebrew, as, the Hebrew is the oldest we have
if we are going to critique the idea of rabbis having anything to say about a pre-rabbinic text, that is all well and good…..the sons of elohim then are other gods, the sons of EL, not angels……Yahweh is one of the sons of EL…….Yahweh was later conflated to be EL….but Yahweh was originally one of the sons of EL
And if you are going to disregard what Rabbis say about Job, why are you going to give any credit to what Jude says, or what Peter says?
I would suggest you look up Dan McClellan, his channel, and an additional channel, Data over Dogma
If you are wanting to go with an Enochian type trandition, that is fine…..i merely present that other doctrines should not be used to support such ideas, when the other doctrines do NOT outrightly and directly say the same things
how about you try dealing with my critique, rather than trying to dismiss it with FALSE claims of rabbinic this and that crap
@kenammi355
Well, one great thing about comment section threads is that you don’t have to remember anything, you just have to read and you wrote, “if you know judaism, judaism says that the souls of Israel existed before such.”
Thus, maybe don’t be so very, very quick to make enemies and make demonstrably false accusations such as, “you are twisting things…”
As for, “how am i complaining about the greek and latin?” well, you said, “i don’t really care what a greek or latin translation of the text says” so, again, stop turning this into you moving the goalpost anywhere and everywhere and please focus on the issue.
You merely assert, “Yahweh is one of the sons of EL…….Yahweh was later conflated to be EL….but Yahweh was originally one of the sons of EL” which is merely a linguistic hop, skip, and jump devoid of substance.
I never claim that I “disregard what Rabbis say about Job” but only pointed out your generic statement.
Now, since you, “i go with the Hebrew, as, the Hebrew is the oldest we have” well, the Hebrew the Hebrews were reading and writing in the first few centuries BC concluded in the Angel view.
How about you try dealing with my critique, rather than trying to dismiss it with emotively moving the goalpost based on faulty memory?
That brought the discussion to and end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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