The statement by the Atheist came about due to the following discussion to the question, “Do atheists separate themselves from other atheists in their forms of atheism as far as motive is concerned?” that was posted to the Quora site.
A certain, “Francis, Raised as a Christian, experimented, and ended an atheist” replied:
Atheists are no more one unified body who believe the same thing than Christians are. There are, however, some common types.
Most atheists just want to be left alone and get on with our lives without being hassled by people claiming to be on a mission from god. We don’t particularly care about the nuances of why we don’t believe.
Some atheists think that theology is one of the best parlour games ever invented. We enjoy teasing out the differences between atheists and agnostics even if they don’t actually mean much.
Some atheists reject and oppose the specific religion they grew up in. Nietzche, for example, was a “Catholic Atheist”; he was an atheist – but agreed with the Catholic church on just about everything other than the existence of God (which is pretty big, admittedly) and where Catholic philosophy says “The world would be this way without God” Nietzche agreed and said that’s how the world is.
I, Ken Ammi, replied:
I’d say that one thing that unifies Atheists is that Atheism is primarily an anti-Christian support group. They have two main denominations and various sects—based on certain commonalities, of course. Likewise, the three main Christian groups—Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Protestantism—all agree on the Nicene Creed, as an example of across the board agreement on main issues.
I’m unsure to what research study you are referring for your assertion about what “Most atheists…want” but the activist ones are utterly obsessed with hassling people by comporting themselves as Atheist missionaries.
Now, of course, that “The world would be this way without God” is utterly incoherent since without God there would be not world.
Francis:
I’m unsure to what research study you are referring for your assertion about what “Most atheists…want” but the activist ones are utterly obsessed with hassling people by comporting themselves as Atheist missionaries.
I’m unsure what research study you are referring to – but I’ve yet to be woken up by an atheist knocking on my door to share the good news that there is no god. I’ve yet to be yelled at by an atheist street stall or atheist street preacher. I’ve yet to see an atheist tell people they deserve to be tortured forever because of their beliefs.
In my experience even the most ardent “activist atheists” are no more obsessed with hassling people than your average run of the mill church going Christian. I would be interested to see your evidence of the existence of atheist street stalls and atheist street preachers – or atheists going on tour to spread the word.
Ken Ammi
No worries, you referenced that which, “Most atheists…want” but that was just a wild guess—I’m sure I generalize from time to time as well and also, like you, based on my personal experiences.
Fascinatingly, you admit that (at least some) Atheists assert, “that there is no god” so that is one of the denominations of Atheism—the one that makes positive affirmations that are unproven.
But oh, I’ve been yelled at by Atheist cyber preacher plenty of times—my website it saturated with examples of my discussion with them.
I see your point about “tortured forever” since Atheists set the serial and mass murdering world’s record in mere decades and opted to believe that they were not transcendently accountable. They enjoyed doing that they did and simply got away with it—this is part of why evil, pain, and suffering are some of the best reasons for rejecting Atheism.
Now, I don’t mind setting all of that aside so as to just deal with the issue of that on Atheism truth/reality/facts are accidental, as is our ability to discern them, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to them, nor to demand/expect others to do so either ergo, why get bent out of shape if, say, someone misrepresents Atheism or believes in things that are even demonstrably untrue/unreal/un-factual?
Francis
You aren’t Humpty-Dumpty. Words don’t mean what you want them to just because you pay them extra.
1: Atheism does not have denominations with a non-trivial size. (You could argue the Satanic Temple and a couple of other tiny organisations). A denomination isn’t just a belief, it’s an organised group.
2: You have not been yelled at by atheists on your website unless they’ve uploaded an audio file. Words have meanings. You might have been flamed for all the arrant nonsense. I’m talking about yelled at in real life. How many times have you seen an atheist on the street corner with a microphone, amplifier, and speaker? Because for me it’s never. While it happened almost every week from a Christian down my high street.
2b: They aren’t “atheist cyber preachers” unless you want to count every single Christian who ever tweeted anything about Christianity even if they would never have the nerve to do it fave to face as a preacher which is … an unusual definition of words.
3: Hitler professed to be a Roman Catholic (what he was in his heart isn’t very relevant) and the Wehrmacht had “Gott mit uns” on their belt buckles. The continual either ignorant or dishonest attempts by Christians to deny what the Nazis believed and professed to believe is tedious.
4: Torture forever is the doctrine of hell. Most Christians openly worship a being who set up and rules a system where people are tortured forever. And Christian writers and preachers at least as far back as Tertullian and continuing through Aquinas into the present day have openly claimed that one of the greatest pleasures of heaven will be watching the suffering of the damned in hell. If evil, pain, and suffering are a reason to reject atheism it is because large branches of Christianity embrace all three and call them good.
5: Atheism is where you get if you actually think that facts matter. Which is a big part of why the overwhelming majority of those who honestly and passionately study the world and the way the physical world works for a living (scientists) are atheists.
But as you say there is no universal imperative to adhere to the observable facts of the world – which is why not everyone is an atheist. There is also no universal imperative to have conversations on Quora and if you keep ignoring the observable facts you may be blocked.
Ken Ammi
Indeed, words don’t mean what you want and the history of Atheism informs us of various meanings and usages.
So, if “Atheism does not have denominations” then since you positively affirm God’s non-existence then you must prove it.
Pretending to know the private details of my life is utterly embarrassing as I have, in fact, been yelled at in person, in real-life (and you may be aware that one can YELL VIA TYPING just like that or like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
So please, don’t waste time pretending to know what you could not possibly know (no wonder you’re an Atheist) and playing mind reader such as when you refer to my “arrant” nonsense as if you can read my mind, heart, motivations, feelings, etc.
It is also fascinating how utterly myopic and subjective you are that if you have not experienced it then no one must have either.
No, “atheist cyber preachers” does not refer to “Christian who ever tweeted anything about Christianity”: that is utterly incoherent.
What does it matter if “Hitler professed to be a Roman Catholic”? Also, are you saying that if I wear a National Rodeo Association belt buckle then that means I’m a bull rider?
But friend, you are only constantly merely jumping to asserted conclusions since, for example, you write, “worship a being who set up and rules a system where people are tortured forever” but don’t bother elucidating why you seem to imply that something is wrong with that—on your worldview.
As for “evil, pain, and suffering are a reason to reject atheism it is because large branches of Christianity embrace all three and call them good” that’s merely a tu quoque logical fallacy (not that logical fallacies matter on Atheism).
The scientific method is premise on biblical theology.
The point about “if you actually think that facts matter” is part of what I’m getting at since on Atheism facts are accidental, as is our ability to discern them, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to them, not to demand that others do so. Thus, you just dug your own grave.
And you actually admit that with “there is no universal imperative to adhere to the observable facts of the world” so you just obliterated everything you have written.
But then you contradict your own moment of clarity by writing about that you will run away and censor me (block me) if I (allegedly) “keep ignoring the observable facts” so you are now speaking incoherently and are contradicting your own worldview which is cognitively dissident (not that being cognitively dissident matters on Atheism).
Well, that ended it since Francis never replied again—and I do find that Atheists generally don’t when they get too close to exposing their hidden assumptions which turn out to be a bottomless pit of subjective assertions.
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