Atheist: have you seen, touched, tasted, or heard the laws of logic?, 6

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The following discussion took placed due to my video Atheist vs Christian on the laws of logic Bible Thumping Wingnut Show—find all segments of this discussion here.

The following discussion took placed due to my video Atheist vs Christian on the laws of logic Bible Thumping Wingnut Show—find all segments of this discussion here.

For some Atheist related info, see my books (on which I am offering a money saving deal:
Pop-Atheist Bible Expositors
Reasons for Being an Atheist: A Comprehensive Guide

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Osama BinLaden, which may perhaps possibly be a pseudonym, commented
U literally agreed with me that morality is subjective. And like I said before and u even tried to explain- this doesn’t make it arbitrary or meaningless. U were arguing that it becomes objective when people agree- no it doesn’t. Something is subjective regardless of the amount of people that hold the same position. However- if what u were trying to say is that we should treat it objectively- then yes- I agree with this. Not everyone’s opinions are equal- people can believe things for bad reasons and if we want to build a society where most people are happy and safe- then we have to establish ground rules.
I already explained this- it’s the subjective opinion that death is bad- that’s why morality is subjective. I made this extremely clear that I acknowledged this, hence why morality is subjective which again- u even agreed to before.
Ugh, I thought I explained this pretty well. Some atheists will elude to morality being objective if u establish ground rules such as human flourishing being good and unnecessary suffering being bad. However I believe this is a little cheek because we have subjectively chosen this. Hence the basis for morality is subjective which if u remember- U AGREED TO!
Some atheists r pro life, some r pro choice. Death is not bad in every case. I’m sure u can think of many examples urself.
I’m repeating myself but yes- ‘We’ being everyone- or near enough everyone. U ask most people what their view on suffering is they will say they don’t like it. If we all agree on this we can work together on ways to avoid it.
If we somehow subjectively change our mind that suffering is good- then we do- however I don’t really see us doing that unless one day stabbing people in the face actually starts to feel good and benefits them in some way.
U really need to not take weeks to reply because we end up repeating everything- or at least reread the conversations before.
And correct- there is no transcendent judgement. This is wishful thinking. I’m sorry that some people get away with bad things but that doesn’t mean a magic judge is going to punish them anyway. People do get away with bad things. That’s why it is our responsibility to ensure justice takes place and not wait for some inactive god to do something.
OMG! No it does not. If something is objectively true it is true regardless of human opinion. If everyone believed the world was flat- the world wouldn’t actually be flat.
Now if something is a subjective opinion such as vanilla tastes better than chocolate- that will remain a subjective opinion even if the whole world prefers vanilla to chocolate. Vanilla doesn’t become truly better than chocolate just because everyone prefers it. This is really basic stuff.
Again- u keep mentioning that god’s moral law is built into us- I would disagree and say evolution provides a much better answer. We have an innate urge to attach and mother’s one to nurture. We r a social, empathetic animals- who r smart enough to reason that our chances of surviving are a lot higher when we work together rather than killing one another.
If god had written his code on everyone- like i said before and again u fail to address and simply just assert- we would not disagree on so much. People shouldn’t argue on which god is the real one- it shouldn’t be down to where u r born. People shouldn’t disagree on things like abortion or homosexual rights. God did a pretty slack job if he did I’ll tell u that.
Yes, we do change our minds all the time. Only more proof that morality is subjective. As i said weeks ago- I am arguing for the existence of subjective morality and non existence of objective morality which u conceded already. Slavery was okay a few hundred years ago. We got rid of that. Women didn’t have rights- now they do. We r learning more and more everyday on how to build a better society and we r still learning. Rules r constantly changing with more experiences. Which is better because if we kept ur bible as our objective morality- it would be worse than what the middle east is right now. Cutting of hands of thieves, stoning adulterers- ect. At least with a moral code such as humanism we can revise such atrocities.
No, there is no religion, especially christianity, to thank. The church held all the money and education systems- it was the only place that offered education- but u can’t tell me that without religion we wouldn’t have gotten to where we r now. We may have even gotten further if it wasn’t for religion holding science back today and even back then with Galileo and his heliocentric model. Or the push back on evolution and stem cell research which is one of our biggest hopes of curing all types of illnesses. Religion played it’s part back in the day- but we no longer need it. It’s no more than a burden to us anymore- get rid of it.

Ken Ammi
I am going to again attempt to focus on one issue since this is again getting out of hand.
Now, yes “morality” proper is subjective but “universal morality,” “absolute morality,” “objective morality,” “ethics,” the “ethos” is not.
So, the main point is that you affirm that “morality is subjective” but you condemn in objective terms and so are inconsistently acting as if morality is objective. I affirm that morality proper is subjective but I condemn in terms of universal/absolute/objective morality aka ethics/ethos so that I consistent.
You do the same with death in stating “death is bad” and also stating, “Death is not bad in every case” so that if death is not bad in every case then you cannot say that death is bad since that would imply an absolute and you reject absolutes in implying that death is only subjectively bad—when you decide to claim that it is bad as opposed to when you decide to claim that it is not. Plus, on Atheism and evolution death is good because it rids us of the less fit, or the worthless eaters, etc.
On suffering, my point has been that we may all agree that we “don’t like” suffering but then your non sequitur is that since we agree on this therefore “we can work together on ways to avoid it” but some will say that since people do not like suffering then we can use suffering to control people: and Atheism and evolution have nothing to say about that whatsoever.
Also, to claim that there is no transcendent judgement is wishful thinking.
Friend, since I am on the other side of this discussion then you cannot fool me by telling me that I “fail to address” something that I addressed. You merely assert that “If god had written his code on everyone…we would not disagree on so much” to which I previously commented, “there is a law against murder but people still chose to murder. Likewise, God’s law is within us but people still chose to disobey.”
Then, the claim that “which god” people think “is the real one” comes “down to where u r born” is a logical genetic fallacy.
Atheism played it’s part back in the day (when it racked up the world’s biggest murder count in human history in merely a few decades) and we no longer need it. It’s no more than a burden to us anymore- get rid of it.


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