I cannot make this up: an Atheist calling him/her/itself “Tom Foolish” commented on my video Bart Ehrman on the historical Jesus contra Jesus mythicism and so the following discussion ensued.
No way Jesus could have existed!!. Not unless God is Crazy!!. God, this paragon of wisdom, couldn’t figure a better way to forgive our sins than to result to ancient, barbaric ways of Human Sacrifices??!!. God so Loved the world, and is an all loving, all merciful, all kind…
So you love some one and you want to forgive them, that you orchestrate the killing of your own Son to demonstrate your love for this individual!!. How is your Son dieing related to forgiving??. Even if it was in a court of law where your brother is willing to serve time for you or carry the death sentence for you, any court of law that would allow such a thing is crazy!!. You either pardon the prisoner or convict them!!. You can’t kill their brother in their place and claim to serve Justice!!. Crazy!!.
You alluded without Jesus or God we wouldn’t know right/wrong or ethics. When Jesus allegedly roamed the earth, slavery was a way of life!!. he never explicitly or vehemently opposed it. In fact he advised the salves to obey their earthly masters with fear and trembling!!. Slave owners in the US used the bible to justify slavery!!. We abolished slavery, gave women freedom and their rights!!. Just like we are slowly accepting gay rights!!. Common sense can clearly show you our morality and ethics is something achieved through reasoning and consensus!!. Thanks to governments that are secular and insist on a wall of separation between faiths and state humanity have advanced!!. Our Morality stem from the Golden rule!!. DO OTHERS AS YOU LIKE THEM DO YOU. And our big brains as primates!!. Which we use for reasoning!!.
I, Ken Ammi, replied
Friend, since you made the positive affirmation that “No way Jesus could have existed!!” you must now prove it.
But you do go on to say “Not unless…” but then you made a bunch of statements that began with conclusions based on hidden assumptions so you must back up so as to begin at the beginning: how does your worldview provide you a premise for truth, logic, and ethics, 2) for adhering to these, and 3) for demanding that others do likewise?
Please spare me that Dr Frank Turek nonsense of “how does your worldview provide you premise for truth, logic and ethics” It’s nonsense!!. Through secular reasoning and consensus we established women rights and women equality to men. Something your bible, (Word of God thus God himself), clearly places women second to men!!. Children rights!!. And now the “contentious” gay rights!!. All came about through secular reasoning and consensus!!. It’s an insult to our intelligence to say that without this celestial tyrant dictating to us what is right or wrong we wouldn’t know right or wrong!!. Our intelligence can tell us this dictator of yours is IMMORAL to allow Hitler do what he did, yet this God had all the means necessary to intervene but didn’t!!. So he got all the time to intervene the tower of Babylon, (What a stupid senseless intervention that was!!), But not NAZI Germany??!!. And without this God i wouldn’t tell whether what NAZIs did was right or wrong??. BULL[****]!!.
A lion’s territory take over is an immoral blood bath from humans point of view. Coz the male(s) once they concur a territory and inherit a pride of lionesses. All the babies fathered by the former Lion(s) are killed. From a human perspective that would be immoral!!. Yet a lion doesn’t see that!!. Why??. Our big brains!!. we can reason and bend the dictates of “SURVIVAL FOR THE FITTEST”!!. eg wear a condom during Sex!!. Coz of our highly evolved organ between our ears!!. If the truth ethics and logic comes from the “Moral law giver”, So he denied lions this moral law coz of what exactly??. He ran out of the moral laws??.
Friend, please mind your manners. I discern a desperation to avoid issues that are inconvenient to your worldview. Since you have no such premises, you have disqualified yourself from condemning anything.
It’s not “my world view!!.”. What is true is universal!!. And we have brains capable of discerning what is true and changing our minds based on Logical and evidential arguments!!. Which you clearly lack and thus result to personal attacks!!. On that note, i don’t think it is healthy to engage any further with deluded people. Goodbye.
Friend, I have interacted with thousands of Atheist for over a decade straight and it is like clockwork: you seem desperation to avoid issues that are inconvenient to your worldview, you have no such premises, you are not going deep enough to even recognize this, and now you want to run away—and I have not personally attacked, I have merely identified that which you seen to avoid and you do not seem to like that fact.
I will ask you to consider the deeper issue, the missing piece: yes, “we have brains capable of discerning what is true and changing our minds based on Logical and evidential arguments” now, note your qualifier “capable of” but that we are capable of doing something does not mean that on your worldview it is an imperative to discern what is (accidentally) true and change our (accidentally) minds based on (accidentally) Logical and evidential arguments—that is merely a personal preference and one that is based on hidden assumption. I am attempting to get you to explore the hidden assumption since thus far you have merely emotively jumped to an asserted conclusion.
Well, so much for Mr. Foolish and no more replies were forthcoming.
See my books on historical Jesus issues and Atheism.
A plea: I have to pay for server usage and have made all content on this website free and always will. I support my family on one income and do research, writing, videos, etc. as a hobby. If you can even spare $1.00 as a donation, please do so: it may not seem like much but if each person reading this would do so, even every now and then, it would add up and really, really help out. Here is my donate/paypal page.
and/or on the “Share/Save” button below the tags.