The following discussion ensued when a certain Scott French replied to the question: Are the Nephilim created by the Seraphin angels? by noting
The fallen ones were created by Satan the serpent race mentioned in Genesis 3:1
I, Ken Ammi, replied
What makes you assert that—especially as opposed to what Gen 6 states?
Scott French
Genesis 6 says sons of God…this means that God created this that mated with women. The only other race around at that same time was the serpent race mentioned in genesis 3:1. What do you think it says in genesis 6
Ken Ammi
I see. Well, I’m unaware of a “serpent race” but the “races” that were around were the human race, the Angelic race, the Cherubim race, and the Seraphim race—maybe the Ophanim race: depends on how we count “races.”
Scott French
Cherubim are Satan the serpent race
Ken Ammi
How could it be that “Cherubim are Satan” since the “im” is male plural in Hebrew so how could multiple Cherubim all be one being, Satan.
Satan is a Cherub.
As for, “Cherubim are…the serpent race” would could that be since there’s literally nothing serpentine about them?
Scott French
Satan is not a single person but a race of people/cherubim’s= serpent race
Ken Ammi
I’ve familiarized myself with over two millennia of relevant data and am unaware of any such thing as “Satan is not a single person but a race.”
As for, “cherubim’s= serpent race” I’m unsure we can really have a discussion if I already asked you, “As for, ‘Cherubim are…the serpent race’ would [I meant to write, “how”] could that be since there’s literally nothing serpentine about them?” but rather than reply, you just double down on an assertion.
Scott French
Relevant data to you but not the truth…let’s try and start simple…all that I say comes from the Bible only. Adam didn’t live to be 930 years old but his name did that long…how can I get you to accept this truth?
Ken Ammi
To get me to accept that supposed truth please rewrite it since I’ve no idea what, “Adam didn’t live to be 930 years old but his name did that long” means.
Scott French
Adam was not just an individual person that lived to be 930 years old when he died. Adam along with every other name in genesis up to Abraham were groups of people living together as a nation. So when it says he dies at 930 years this means there were no more children born to carry out the Adam name so it dies.
Ken Ammi
But friend, that’s incoherent by definition since that he had many sons and daughters means that they lived on: such is the only reason we’re here to discuss it since all humans are Adamites.
Also, since what you asserted hasn’t even been stated by anyone else in human history, as far as I know, then you’re either the greatest biblical scholar in human history or are mistaken.
Scott French
You are correct my friend as we are all Adamites. Chapter 5 is talking about there generations. Cain, Able, and Seth are not the 1st born of an Adam… like I said earlier we were told to be fruitful and multiply from the beginning and we meet Cain and Able after we left the garden. Seth was the 1st born of an Adam 130 years after the 1st Adam was made to take a wife and leave behind all his brothers and sisters and Aunts and Uncles and start his own new nation apart from the rest. Only 105 after Seth left Enos left behind with his wife all the people living together under Seth’s name and started his own nation. The Seth that left the Adam’s nation is not the same Seth that had Enos. These are there generations. Try not to think of them as individuals as they are it is more than that. Your generation would start right after you have your 1st kid and as long as they continue to reproduce your name would continue…if at any point they can’t continue with children then it would stop and your name would die. I encourage you to start again and write stuff down like a chart and hopefully you will see what was shown to me.
Ken Ammi
I don’t have a problem with, “Cain, Able, and Seth are not the 1st born of an Adam” (and noted as much in my five volume book series, “Cain As Serpent Seed of Satan”) but who was, “the 1st Adam”? I ask because I’m only aware of one person (yes, an individual) named that, back then, and there’s zero indication he, “was made to…leave behind all his brothers and sisters and Aunts and Uncles” since he didn’t have any.
You’re using a very unique definition of, “generation” since I could say that my, “generation” began with the actual Biblical man Adam or that I’m of the “Baby Boomer” generation (or to whichever I may pertain).
But I lost track of what this has to do with, “Are the Nephilim created by the Seraphin angels?”
Scott French
I like where your heads at. But Seth and Cain were the 1st to leave behind everyone…not an Adam. The reason Cain’s name is not where Seth’s is in genesis 5:3 is because Cain’s father was not an Adam but instead the same serpent race we met in genesis 3:1. This is because genesis 4:1 the word conceived is the 2nd part of the definition not the 1st. As soon as you learn that these names until Abraham are more than individuals but nations of people living together then you will understand that there was more than one Adam made and for each an Eve given so when they mated there children could reproduce without mixing DNA. You will also see that there is a reason for the list of names from Cains line of descendants and that is because the last 4 were on the ark with Noah and along with 2 other nations from Seth’s, Methuselah and Lamech. So 20 people on the ark because of Genesis 6:19. This is also why there were giants afterwards because these that were on the ark were the 1st Nephilim. 1/2 human 1/2 serpents. These same serpents “cherubim” are the ones who “came down” and mated again with humans to produce more hybrid giants to try and take out mankind. This is why the flood happened.
Ken Ammi
I’m unaware that Seth left everyone behind but I know that Cain did.
Cain is in Adam’s lineage by definition due to Gen 4:1 but thereafter, and that Cain did abscond and started his own side-lineage, in manner of speaking, is why he’s not in the lineage that is meant to ultimately result in Jesus.
As for, “Cain’s father was not an Adam but instead the same serpent race” well, I just directed you to Gen 4:1 that debunks that assertion and you can’t get around that fact by appearing to whatever you mean by, “word conceived is the 2nd part of the definition not the 1st” and, again, I wrote five books debunking denials that Adam was Cains’ dad so I’m aware of the failed arguments.
As for, “than one Adam made and for each an Eve” well, that’s just made up stuff.
You claim, “20 people on the ark” but Genesis 7:7 states, “Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him went into the ark” and 1 Peter 3:20 states, “eight persons, were brought safely through water” and 2 Peter 2:5 states, “Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others.”
So, when you are very, very specifically contradicted by three texts, please, pleaser give up on your made up story.
You say, “there were giants afterwards” but “afterwards” of when?
As for, “serpents ‘cherubim’” the only correlation between Cherubim and “serpents” is that one single Cherub is symbolically referred to as “serpent” (as well as “dragon”).
Thus, there’s literally zero indication that Cherubim “‘came down’ and mated again with humans to produce more hybrid giants to try and take out mankind” rather, it was Angels.
But, if, “This is why the flood happened” very well then, at least you agree that there were no such thing as post-flood Nephilim—or, are you saying that’s why the flood happened but God failed, He missed a loophole, so the flood was much of a waste since it happened all again (with zero examples) post-flood?
Scott French
Look I’m just trying to show you what they showed me and it seems like you are listening but have your doubts and that’s good, I want to be challenged to be sure I’m correct and I enjoy the conversation …I can also say that I have never read the entire bible but once believed the same things you are repeating to me.
You still believe, like I once was thought at church, that Adam had Seth at 130 years old and that is simply not the truth. We were thought wrong so it’s harder for us to let go. I think we both agree that Cain, Able, then Seth are not the 1st 3 children born from Adam and Eve. They were reproducing and having children way before then. I was shown that in Job 1:1 where Job lived and that land was Uz. I was also told that this land could be found in genesis 10:23 and that is because it was more than just an individual person but an entire nation of people (mostly related) living together. These are there generations. There is not a single human, not even Adam that live over 930 years or even Methuselah. What genesis 5 is saying is, 130 years after the 1st Adam was made a child named Seth took a wife and started his own new nation separate from all the other people that were living together under the Adam name. Probably because of what happened with Cain and Able. The Adam’s and Eve’s…yes more than one…continued to have children until 930 years after the 1st sets of Adams and Eve’s were made. These last children did not have any offspring thus the name Adam dies. It’s also confirming the fact that we die because we ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge.
Just because Cain left the presence of God should not be a reason for a separate linage if he was born from an Adam then his name would be where Seth’s is in genesis 5:3. I must take you back to genesis 4:1 like you said but are mistaken. I can know my wife (be married) and still not be the father of a child that she has and this is what happened with Cain. The word conceived in this verse 4:1 is the 2nd part of the definition not the 1st which means it doesn’t mean to become pregnant…we already know this is how a child comes into the world. It means to form a plan in the mind. This is what the serpent race did to produce Cain. Also in 4:1 Eve says I have gotten a man from the Lord. The reason why she says this…again not because he’s the 1st child ever born but because he looks different from all the other children born before him…1/2 human 1/2 serpent…1st Nephilim. God didn’t put a mark on Cain…he was already different/marked.
There has been a lot of things in the Bible that didn’t make sense to me growing up but I just accepted what the church told me. One of those questions I had was, if Adam and Eve were the only 2 humans then there kids would have to reproduce. I have seen what happens when children or relatives mate with each other and the outcome is not good and this is fact, so what is the correct answer. You will get all kind of answers and I’m sure you have yours, kinda like we were closer to God back then so our DNA was ok to do this…just something that is not documented to fit our narrative.
The ark is another great story that I had many questions for but the answers that I got were not expected. If at any point you start to understand that these early people were nations of people living together then the more this will help you make sense of what I’m saying. You referred to genesis 7:7 as well 1st and 2nd Peter to prove your case of how many people were on the ark but will you listen to what was told to me? Genesis 6:19 says that 2 of every sort of all flesh male and female must be kept alive in the ark. I made a chart with all this new information I received and when I did it showed that not only were Noah, Shem, Han, and Japheth nations around at the time of the flood so were Lamech and Methuselah’s. And when I counted the number of children from Seth’s line and read the Bible genesis 4:19 starts to break down these last 4 nations talents and that is because these last 4 nations are around still at the time of the flood and according to genesis 6:19 had to be picked up. So let’s take a look at Peter. 3:20 is saying when the ark was being made only 8 souls were saved from the water. But we need to go back to 3:19 to find the ; witch is a continuation of the sentence. By which also Jesus went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Noah and his sons didn’t need there souls saved they were already chosen by God to continue the human race so I think there place with God was safe…it was the fallen ones that God chained up in darkness, that Jesus was able to go down and save eight souls. Just because these words are together in verse 3:20 doesn’t confirm only 8 were on the ark. 2nd Peter 2:5 says and spared not the old world, but saved Noah the 8 person. This again is not saying there were 8 people on the ark but according the the math the 8th Noah would have been the 8 male born in that nation kinda like Noah jr then Noah jr jr lol. The 8th one was the one the started the ark.
Genesis 6:4 says that there were Nephilim (Hebrew word “fallen ones” “to cause to fall”)in those days and also after. I am telling you that Cain was the 1st Nephilim . So the “angels” that you refer to are actually the same serpent race in genesis 3:1. They mated again with more women and produced an offspring that God didn’t want here because it would destroy humans. The reason there are Nephilim after the flood is because 8 people from Cains line were on the ark and continued after the flood.
sorry so long thanks for listening and God bless
Ken Ammi
Wait, when you say, “what they showed me” who are the, “they”? Also, if what, “they” showed you goes against the Bible then you need to rebuke them.
If you, “have never read the entire bible” then please listen to someone who has and has done extensive research—over two millennia worth of data—on these specific issues.
Now, since you admitted that you, “never read the entire bible”: do you know why you were taught, “Adam had Seth at 130 years old”? It’s because God’s Holy, inspired, and preserved Word states, “When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.” But, you said, “that is simply not the truth” so you’re wrong.
I’m willing to grant that, “Cain, Able, then Seth are not the 1st 3 children born from Adam and Eve” but they might have been.
As for, “Just because Cain left the presence of God should not be a reason for a separate linage if he was born from an Adam” but I already told you why that was. Biblical lineages aren’t just mathematical equations, and one of the main interests is to plot the one that led to Jesus.
You can conceptually argue, “I can know my wife (be married) and still not be the father of a child that she has” but you then just invent, “this is what happened with Cain” without any indication of even a need to invent something like that.
So, you’re arguing that what Gen 4:1 is telling us is that after Adam already knew Eve, he knew Eve so that’s incoherent since, again, he already knew her.
As for, “serpent race did to produce Cain” that is such a tragically incoherent assertion that it has been historically virtually unknown and, again, I wrote five entire books debunking that fantasy.
As for, “Eve says I have gotten a man from the Lord” yes, I am aware of that particular rendering but it matters not since my wife, whom I impregnated, could say the very same thing in terms of the blessing that it was or that it was with the help of, etc. But the Lord in context is God and not the non-lord serpent.
Also, there’s literally zero indication of an, “1/2 human 1/2 serpent” since serpent is just an a.k.a. for Satan and can’t be the “1st Nephilim” since Nephilim weren’t, “1/2 human 1/2 serpent” but were 1/2 human 1/2 Angel.
You also said, “God didn’t put a mark on Cain” but God’s Holy, inspired, preserved Word notes, “the Lord put a mark on Cain” so you’re wrong.
I can see why, “There has been a lot of things in the Bible that didn’t make sense to me growing up” since you, “never read the entire bible” and are teaching people on the WORLD WIDE web that it doesn’t say things that it does say: do you realize how accountable you are for that, for potentially teaching people all over the planet your falsehoods? Please repent.
Indeed, “if Adam and Eve were the only 2 humans then there kids would have to reproduce” but you are ignoring God’s word and are being illogical and ill-bio-logical when you say, “I have seen what happens when children or relatives mate with each other and the outcome is not good.” Friend, that it MILLENNIA after the creation, that is MILLENNIA after genetic mutations have accumulated and accumulated and accumulated to the point that it’s a problem: and God commanded against it so that it would not become a problem. God created “good” and “very good” genetics and entropized over time. It’s anachronistic to take what’s said about the original creation and shortly thereafter and apply it to MILLENNIA later.
So, it’s not just, “we were closer to God back then so our DNA was ok to do this…just something that is not documented to fit our narrative” since it is documented when, guess what, you read the whole Bible and apply what it tells us—and what we have learned about genetic entropy.
You said, “Genesis 6:19 says that 2 of every sort of all flesh male and female” but it’s not that simple since Gen 7 adds specificity, “Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate, and seven pairs of the birds…Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, two and two, male and female…” So your chart and counting are wrong.
Indeed, “Noah and his sons” and their wives, “didn’t need there souls saved” which his why Jesus, “preached unto the spirits in prison.” So there were 8 in the ark as I noted via two texts.
It’s also incoherent that, “‘angels’ that you refer to are actually the same serpent race” since there’s literally nothing serpentine about Angels and, again, the serpent was symbolic of the Cherub, Satan.
You demand, “there are Nephilim after the flood” but there’s no such thing.
So, whoever, “they” are who show you such things are wrong.
Shalom!
Scott French
Ok so you are under some misinformation and part might be my fault. You think that this information that I came up with is my own or reading someone else’s information lol. You also think just because I haven’t sat down and read the whole Bible front to back that I don’t know any of it, and even bigger lol. I have listened to what people have said about the Bible at 1st Baptist church in Roanoke, VA till about 16–17 when I left my home state. I listened and believed everything that was thought to me but must admit in the back of my empty mind I had questions that didn’t add up but would only discuss with my mother who has read the whole Bible front to back as to not offend any of my teachers.
A bit about me…I accepted Jesus as my savior and keep that promise still today. As for my empty mind, I am apart of a small percentage of people that do not have any audio or video in my mind at all…zero. It’s called aphantasia. I found out myself when I was in my 30’s helping my kid with spelling and was shocked to find out that y’all had this ability to not only see things in your minds eye but hear conversations in your head🤯. Also I’ve discovered that its level of activity is different with each person a little. Mine doesn’t work at all and I might even have a reason for that. I have only escaped death 4 times in my life. The 1st is when me and my brother were about 8 and 9 years old and played with football I went to get and he though a rock and hit me in the back of the head and busted open. I still blame him for this lack of memory I have lol. The 2nd time I was drinking to much with friends and hit a pole going up a mountain rd, after the hit I was going down the mountain but hit a tree the size of my fist right in the middle and kept me there. 3rd was at gun point trying to help people rebuild after Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. Kid put a gun to my head and asked for the keys to my truck. Told him they were in it and he left. Last one almost got me, being a electrician by trade I was helping out another contractor when I didn’t check a locked breaker 277 volts. As I grabbed the wire it grabbed me back pulling my feet off the scissor lift. Gravity saved me that day, my weight was enough only 175 to pull against the current that had a hold of me. I remember being in the darkness again and just said let go, let go, please let go and it did.
Now that I am 45 a couple years back my wife who is not a believer at all had a lot of death around her and a long with her friends didn’t know why all this stuff was happening. I just wanted to write a book much like yourself and one that in my mind if I did a good enough job could get published but mainly for my friends and family to read. It was going to be the truth on why we were here and what are purpose is. Of course with my religious background I was going to use the Bible as reference. As I started writing everything was going ok until something happened. I voice came into my head and it wasn’t mine saying the truth I’m looking for is already been written and I have a copy. Clearly this caught my way off guard but it continued. It made me go back to the Bible and showed me things that I would never have dreamed about because ohh yeah I don’t dream ether. This would occur not only when I was writing my book but every day it could conversate with me. Telling me truth in all cases about anything. I believe this to be from the holy spirt and not demonic because of the last thing that was communicated to me and that was to quite smoking for 100 days and read the whole Bible…both I have failed to do. I am aware that what I am saying is blasphemy but I cannot continue to hid the truth. But am aware that I’m not trying to rewrite the Bible it was told to me it works and leads to salvation and that is the only thing that matters. But the truth is there and that is what they showed me and I’m just trying to pass on what the truth is. Somehow I’m am going about it the wrong way but don’t know the correct way to get this new truth out. I don’t want you to think I’m a crazy person that loves Satan or anything like that just want people to see the truth
Ken Ammi
Please stop wasting time with filler-arguments. You appealed to a mysterious they, “what they showed me,” etc. and please don’t play mind reader about, “You also think just because I haven’t sat down and read the whole Bible front to back that I don’t know any of it” since that’s ridiculous.
You don’t seem interested in discussing the issues anymore so I will just say that the, “voice” mislead you since I’ve been able to show your many misunderstandings of what’s actually in the Bible. So, rebuke that voice and repent.
Scott French
The holy spirt showed me this and I will not rebuke any of it because it is the word of God. I know a lot about the Bible but do I know everything that was written…no haven’t read the whole thing yet. I will discuss any issue with you and as for the Nephilim I have already told you they are the fallen ones that were created with the serpent race mating with women again just like with Cain.
Ken Ammi
I’ve had many experiences like this with people who teach false thins—and you’re doing it on the WORLD WIDE web, mind you.
You assert, I request backing for your assertions, I show you how you’re mistaken, you realize you’ve no backing for your assertions and can’t refute the corrections, so you pull the gnostic card about how you had secret, special, private revelation directly from the Holy Spirt.
In fact, I have encountered this SO MUCH that one of my five volume book series, “Cain As Serpent Seed of Satan” is subtitled, “Cain as Serpent Seed of Satan, vol. V: Considering Mysticism and Occultism: from Jewish to Gnostic” since SO many people are like you.
Well, it wasn’t the Holy Spirit, it was another spirit, it was a spirit you need to rebuke.
Yes, you, “told” about, “the fallen ones that were created with the serpent race mating with women again just like with Cain” but that’s 100% unbiblical.
Scott French
You can write as many books as you want but you are in error not me. I will continue to show the truth however I choose. It’s ok to be wrong as long as it lead to your salvation that is the only thing. God bless
Ken Ammi
But friend, I would not have posted a comment in the first place if you were showing the truth. You could lean the Biblical view on such issues but you’re holding to man-made traditions instead and refuse correction even whilst ignoring points and questions that are inconvenient to your man-made traditions.
Please reconsider.
Shalom!
Scott French
But I am showing you biblical truth you just don’t want to hear about it because you are holding on to man-made beliefs. I will ignore no points or questions you have but you must 1st state one.
Ken Ammi
The test is simple: you’ve been shown to be forced to manipulate texts in order to push your views.
Scott French
What test are you talking about…Not my views but Gods. Now you never did answer my previous question…when you read the Bible is your conclusion that Jesus Christ is the son of God?
Ken Ammi
But that’s not the case since the test is simple: you’ve been shown to be forced to manipulate texts in order to push your views.
Yes, of course He’s the Son of God.
Scott French
Still not sure what test your talking about but be safe and God bless
Ken Ammi
The test as to who’s correct: me or you.
Shalom.
That brought the discussion to an end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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