Not surprisingly, I tend to get some rather odd emails and this one is an example—so, here it is.
A person wrote the following to me:
I am not a strong reader of the bible. I go through stages. But I was wondering first about what god says about the universe? You answer that, but to me the real question I am seeking answers for is how God instructs man to interact with and within the larger Universe as it relates to earth, sea and sky. My interest is in what I perceive as Christians behaving as though we have no say in protecting our world and reaching out from the earth. We were
told about the earth, sea, creatures in what feels like only a small piece of what creation is.
Here is my reply, for what it is worth:
Most interesting point friend. I am unsure if by “interact with and within the larger Universe as it relates to earth, sea and sky” and “protecting our world and reaching out from the earth” you are referring to stewardship over the Earth or something else?
The reply was:
Let’s just look up into the night sky first, then beyond…. We can see the edges of the universe, the known universe. It seems an all knowing entity might have mentioned to us along the way how all of that is to be used by us just as we were told of our place on the earth.
I guess I am getting at this: Are the teachings of the bible limited or shaped only by the understanding of man at the time of the writing? Were the authors really just men describing a limited experience of the universe as the bible seems to intimate.
Here is my reply, in turn:
Friend, I would note that by stating what “It seems an all knowing entity might have” done you are doing theology. In other words, it is to say that “if, then” and to do so according to your rules such as that “It seems an all knowing entity might have” and since it appears that an all knowing did not do that which you think it might have done then perhaps it is not an all knowing or simply is not at all. Thus, I am not sure why I should think that “It seems an all knowing entity might have mention” how the entire universe “is to be used by us.” Yet, the fact that we live in the universe means that in some way the whole universe affects the milky way galaxy, in turn it affects our solar system, in turn it affects our Sun, in turn it affects the Earth, in turn it affects us human, etc. As to a more general question about whether “the teachings of the bible” are “limited or shaped only by the understanding of man at the time of the writing” I would say that within the context of your point about the universe we should take a look at the Bible’s very first verse. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.” Now, we now, today, finally know that the universe is a time, space, matter continuum so let us read that again. “In the beginning [time], God created the heavens [space] and the Earth [matter].” Thus, we have an up to date scientific cosmology from one single verse. Moreover, since time, space and matter began to exist then that which caused them must be timeless or eternal, space-less or without extension in space or without being restricted to locality and thus be omnipresent and immaterial or spirit so let us read that again. “In the beginning, God [was already there and brought time into being and so is timeless] created the heavens [and thus, is outside of or beyond the constraints of spatial dimensions] and the Earth [is thus, immaterial].” Yet, there is more to glean from this one single verse so let us read it again. “In the beginning, God created [volitionally brought about a planned design via inconceivable power and is thus, omnipotent] the heavens and the Earth.”
I hope this helps to at least scratch the surface.
This next part I will post as I received a reply since the person took my comments and commented upon them so that mine will be in regular format and theirs I will underline:
Hello again friend, I have been enjoying the interaction. Rule #1 for determining the meaning of a word, phrase, term, etc. is that the context determines the meaning. The first instance of “heavens” is the initial creation as a whole, followed by references to the solar system: Sun, Moon, etc. The other usage of “heavens” you quoted narrows the focus to the Earth and provides its own context which is “a local space defining where birds fly.”
Still sounds like a description based in lack of knowledge verses all knowing.
We could get into other issues such as that Genesis predicts a law of thermodynamics, etc. yet, I would say that the whole issue is that of course focus is given to the Earth as that is our home: the one designed for us and the one we use in order to feed and clothe ourselves.
Man has always looked up to the stars in wonder. Seems there would be an answer for it’s use under man by God.Now, if you “accept a creator” who/what is that creator? It cannot be God since you state that we humans created God, “God must be an emanation / image by man” so then we are God’s God which means that God is not God but we are: am I reading you correctly?
I said or meant, God is an emanation / image by man. Man forms the image based on what he knows at the time. God is a guess about a creator. That does not deny a creator. It does suggest the words of the bible are inspired by man thru a GUESS of what God is or might say. Written around the experience of man communing with each other. I was thinking more in terms of a creator in Jewish mysticism along the lines of Ayn Sof, infinitely undescribable, no thing verses currently interpreted some thing, Now, how does man explain that in early times? Our interpretation of God feels manmade not God made.I am not a regular student of this conversation, but I feel strongly that the image of God created by man has evolved once in time and that was with Jesus. Since then God has not evolved among the masses as our knowledge of the universe has. Is it because of God’s silence or man not utilizing free will to discover more about God or himself? Christian faith seems stuck, constantly relying on interpretations from a different age.
As for “What is God without man?” well I perceive all but one theology to fail at this point with some presuming that God must have lacked something which is why He had to create beings with whom to have a relationship. However, this is precisely where Trinitarian theology shows its truth: “What is God without man?” without man God is God, God is outside/transcends/is beyond time, space and matter and it thus eternal. The Triune God has eternally enjoyed relationships within the godhead: relationships that are diverse since there are three persons and yet conflict free since there is only one God.
Even this sounds like what I am saying : God is outside/transcends/is beyond time, space and matter and it thus eternal. If God is all of this then it seems to say that GOD is no thing we can describe. Man’s religion demonstrates he is not up to the task of continuing to learn, understand and evolve our belief in GOD. God is a guess about a creator. A Guess where we safely invite ourselves in, on our terms. A creature comfort.
I am not saying it could not be different and it probably is among different cultures.On this view, God creates humanity so as to share His eternal relationship and love and not in order to experience something He did not have before.
Sorry, I am not as well versed as you… my questioning is based a lot in trying to explain a seeming hypocrisy in Western Christian (religious) behavior through time.
Shusaku Endo on Jesus: “”Regarding those who deserted him, those who betrayed him, not a word of resentment came to his lips…he prayed for nothing but their salvation. That’s the whole life of Jesus. It stands out clean and simple, like a single Chinese ideograph brushed on a blank sheet of paper. It was so clean and simple that no one could make sense of it, and not one could produce its like.” from the book, A Life of Jesus
Well, it ended with my following reply and I never heard from them again:
To reiterated with added details: the contexts of Genesis move from the general creation of the universe, the narrows to the solar system with references to the Sun and Moon, then narrows the Earth and then narrows to Eden and its garden. It is not a luck guess or accident that the Bible correctly describes cosmogony and also cosmology (as well as predicting that the universe expands, that within a closed system energy is not created or destroyed, etc.).
How does an infinitely indescribable, no thing result in your certainty that your brain even functions in a manner whereby it can ascertain empirical truth? In other words, what guarantee do you have, if you do have one, that this no thing resulted in the prerequisite for intelligibility? Is there truth? Is it absolute? How do we discern it?
Now, I would say that if you find the actual absolute truth you would do well to get “stuck” to it. Thus, if the “Christian faith seems stuck” then it is stuck to a model which accurately accounts for humanity’s propensity towards great acts of beauty and horror: as we are made in God’s image but experienced a fall into sin. Thus, we are “constantly relying on interpretations from a different age” which are as relevant today as they were then.
Criticizing any theology for the fact that it does not claim that God told us how to use the entire universe (again, whatever that means) is simply illegitimate.
Lastly, in referring to your condemnation of “seeming hypocrisy in Western Christian (religious) behavior through time” you are appealing to standard of truth and ethics but upon what premise do you do so? How does an infinitely indescribable, no thing result in result in such absolutes?
You see, I can condemn hypocrisy and do so based upon those “interpretations from a different age” which are still accurate and useful this very day.
So, there it is.
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