The following discussion commenced when someone asked this question on the Quora site Why isn’t the word “Nephilim” translated directly in most Bible translations, and what risks are involved in trying to translate it?
Adam Reisman (B.A. in Linguistics, University of Southern California) replied
Because there’s no English word for this concept. In fact it’s actual meaning is unclear.
For some reason it got associated with giants even though the root of the word means “fallen”. In fact, there are multiple sources in the 3rd and 2nd Centuries BCE that translate it as giants. I also read a commentary that it might be related to the Aramaic causative very n’fila (נְפִילָא) which means “to cause [someone or something else] to fall and is also associated with the constellation Orion.
Linguistically, I think leaving it untranslated is probably the safest thing to do since… It’s meaning is unclear.
Sydney Fāṭima Goldstein replied
*its meaning is unclear. What does it most likely mean, and where in the Bible is it?
Adam Reisman
We have no idea what it likely means. The root is related to the Hebrew verb “to fall”. It appears in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:32–33.
Sydney Fāṭima Goldstein
Toda. So according to chabad.org, the word from Numbers might indeed be giants. In Genesis, it seems like a group of folk (giants?) that God would later destroy with the Flood (?).
Adam Reisman
My answer is linguistic, not belief-based.
Sydney Fāṭima Goldstein
I know. Matters not what We believe, but what the Torah says, which is a matter of linguistics.
Adam Reisman
That doesn’t make any sense. The Torah only mentions the word nephilim 3 times, all in the same context, so we don’t know what that word means. The Torah is no help here.
I, Ken Ammi, chimed in thusly
“For some reason it got associated with giants” only begs these questions: what’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s your usage? Do those two usages agree?
It’s impossible that “In fact, there are multiple sources in the 3rd and 2nd Centuries BCE that translate it as giants” since “giants” is a modern English word that didn’t even exist in the 3rd and 2nd Centuries and it’s “BC” not “BCE.”
“The Torah only mentions the word nephilim 3 times” but not “all in the same context”:
The first time is the reliable record in Genesis 6:4 and it’s about when they came to be, their parentage, that they were mighty and renown that by implication that they didn’t make it past the flood.
The second and third are in the unreliable “evil report” in Numbers 13:32–33 which is just a fantasy tall-tale by 10 guys whom God rebuked and it’s about a mere and impossible assertion that they lived in the post-flood Canaan.
You might be interested in my linguistics book “Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010.”
Adam Reisman
I don’t understand what your point is about the English language. It got translated to the Greek word for Giants first. And thereafter to all other languages.
Ken Ammi
It’s not the case that “It got translated to the Greek word for Giants first” nor is that possible since “Giants” is an English word that didn’t exist in BC days when “It got translated.”
Stating “the word from Numbers might indeed be giants” does the same as what Adam’s statements did: merely begs the questions what’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s your usage? Do those two usages agree?
Adam Reisman
I can barely follow what you’re saying and I can’t answer your question.
The word is Nephilim (נפילים) and in the Septuagint it was translated into Greek as gigantes (γίγαντες). This is the first point in time as far as we know that the word was translated this way.
It didn’t get translated into the word giants. It got translated into the Greek word gigantes. Does that help any?
Ken Ammi
That’s an improvement since you first noted “It got translated to the Greek word for Giants first” but now you corrected that with “in the Septuagint it was translated into Greek as gigantes (γίγαντες).”
Yet, that’s still lacking since you didn’t note what gigantes means.
It’s also myopic, in a manner of speaking since Nephilim and also gibborim and also Rephaim were translated (actually rendered) in the Septuagint as gigantes.
The questions were:
How do modern English Bibles use the word “giants”: what do they mean when they use it?
How do you use the word “giants”: what do you mean when they use it?
Are the way the Bibles and you use it the same?
Adam Reisman
I’m more lost than ever. LOL. An improvement of what? The Septuagint is the first known translation from Hebrew into Greek. So what’s the big deal about that? it doesn’t change anything about what I said.
As for the rest, I’m still not understanding your issue. There aren’t any Greek translations that translate the word any other way except as Giants (gigantes). This word means really big people.
I don’t know why they translate it that way. I don’t believe the word means “giants”, if that’s what you’re getting at.
Ken Ammi
As for, “An improvement of what?” well, reread it since I wrote, “That’s an improvement since…” and the stuff after, “since” is the what which you seek.
I’m surprised that you, a “B.A. in Linguistics,” merely assert, “Giants (gigantes). This word means really big people”:
“Giants…means really big people”: 1) “really big” is just as vague, generic, subjective, and multi-usage as “giants” and 2) since it’s a multi-usage term it also metaphorical (such as “Elon Musk is a giant of high tech” which tells us nothing about his size). So, your subjective usage of “giants” is something vaguely generic about subjectively unusual height of some unknown level above the parochial average (and yes, that is how useless the common parlance usage of that modern English word is).
“gigantes…means really big people”: no, it means “earth-born.”
You may want to consult my linguistics book “Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010.”
Adam Reisman
The word has always denoted size. And now I’m done with this conversation and it’s [sic.] rudeness.. Have a nice day, Ken.
Ken Ammi
How can you, a, “B.A. in Linguistics,” seriously assert that, “The word”—any word actually—“always denoted” one single thing?
Such just isn’t the tentative nature of language.
Also, note my qualifying term, “usage” while you moved the goalpost to, “denoted.”
But we can now answer my third question since you answered the second and you don’t know the first.
Your usage doesn’t agree with the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles since therein that it merely renders (doesn’t even translate) Nephilim in 2 verses or Repha/im in 98% of all others and so never even hints at anything to do with any sort of height whatsoever.
Thus, it doesn’t denote that which you merely asserted as a positive affirmation
As a, “B.A. in Linguistics” I thought you’d be very interested in such issues.
I’m also unsure why you opted to commit the fallacy of an appeal to emotion as an excuse.
BTW: if he’s done with the conversation due to, “it’s [sic.] rudeness” wouldn’t a solution be that you stop being rude?
Well, that was the end of it since no more replies were forthcoming and it seems that’s what you get for and from a B.A. in Linguistics from the University of Southern California.
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