A certain Pilgrims Grey Chronicles posted some audio by pop-Nephilologists L.A. Marzulli to a Facebook page along with the statement
Agreed.
In fact, I mentioned his book in our latest podcast, which deals with the subject of us of them walking among us. It will blow your mind…
And the funny thing is, he was absolutely skeptical about all of that at first, until he dug into it.
I, True Freethinker, replied
Actually, there’s literally zero indication of “Six-Fingered Nephilim”: extra digits is only stated about one single person in the whole Bible and he was a Repha, not a Nephil. I’ve familiarized myself with over two millennia worth of relevant data that I used to write my dozen, or so, research-based Nephilology books: how about we do a show together to sharpen iron with iron?
Pilgrims Grey Chronicles
That’s fair as far as strict wording goes. The Bible does not say, “The Nephilim had six fingers.” The explicit six-finger/six-toe description is attached to a giant from Gath who is described as being descended from Rapha, or connected to the Rephaim line.
But I think the broader point still stands.
The question is not whether every giant-clan term is identical in every usage. The question is whether the Rephaim, Anakim, Zamzummim, Emim, and related giant clans are part of the same broader post-Flood giant tradition that traces back to the same kind of forbidden corruption described in Genesis 6.
Numbers 13:33 directly links the Anakim to the Nephilim tradition:
“We saw the Nephilim there, the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim…”
Now, yes, people debate whether that is the frightened report of the spies, hyperbole, or a literal genealogical statement. Fair enough. But the text itself preserves the association between Anakim and Nephilim.
Then Deuteronomy connects the Anakim and other giant clans to the Rephaim category. Deuteronomy 2 says the Emim were regarded as Rephaim, the Zamzummim were regarded as Rephaim, and the Anakim were also reckoned as Rephaim. Og of Bashan is also called one of the remnant of the Rephaim.
So while “Nephilim” and “Rephaim” are not always interchangeable terms, they do appear to belong to the same larger biblical giant-clan framework.
That is why I don’t think it is unreasonable for people to speak in shorthand and connect the six-fingered giant of Gath to the broader Nephilim/Rephaim problem. The precise term in that passage is Rephaim/Rapha, not Nephilim. But the broader theological issue is still hybridized giant clans connected to the rebellion of non-human sons of God and their corruption of mankind.
So I would phrase it carefully:
The Bible does not explicitly say the original Nephilim had six fingers.
But the Bible does describe a six-fingered/six-toed giant from a Rephaim line, and the Rephaim are part of the broader post-Flood giant-clan tradition that many researchers connect back to the Genesis 6 incursion.
That is the distinction I would make.
And yes, I’d be open to a respectful discussion sometime. Iron sharpening iron is exactly how we clarify these things.
True Freethinker
Appreciate the detailed interaction.
It’s impossible that “the broader point still stands” since LA merely asserted to know a physical feature of Nephilim by appealing to one single Repha so it’s a category error and also the dirty little secret is that since we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim then their height is a non-issue and that alone debunks 99% of un-biblical Nephilology—the modern branch of which is just un-biblical neo-theo sci-fi tall-tales.
As for “a giant from Gath” forget that useless modern English term and just say to what you’re referring: as you actually did ;o) so that’s “Rapha”: it was one of Goliath’s sons—nothing to do with Nephilim.
As for “giant clans” I should ask: what’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles? What’s your usage? Do those two usages agree?
As for those “clans”: “Rephaim, Anakim, Zamzummim, Emim” is a list of one since the latter two are just aka for Rephaim and Anakim were like a clan of that tribe (which you went on to touch upon)—and I’ll have to see what you mean by “giants” to see what you’re claiming about them.
When you attempt to “traces back to the same kind of forbidden corruption described in Genesis 6” you commit a few fundamental errors—and are also being myopic.
Whenever you appeal to Num 13:33 you needed to mention that you’re relying on:
1. One single unreliable sentence
2. From strictly non-LXX versions (since that version’s version of that verse doesn’t even mention Anakim)
3. Of an unreliable “evil report”
4. By 10 unreliable guys
5. Whom God rebuked—to death
6. Who made five mere assertions unbacked by even one single other verse in the whole Bible
7. Who contradicted Moses, Cable, Joshua, God, and the rest of the whole entire Bible
8. Then post-flood Nephilologists have to invent un-biblical fantasy tall-tales about how Nephilim got past the flood, past God.
I could go on but see my post “Chapter sample: On the Post Flood Nephilim Proposal”:
Thus, asserting that it, “links the Anakim to the Nephilim tradition” is siding with one version and siding with guys whom God rebuked rather than with the God who rebuked them.
And, you assert that, “the text itself preserves the association between Anakim and Nephilim” because weren’t very familiar with the textual issue.
It’s not “‘Nephilim’ and ‘Rephaim’ are not always interchangeable terms” it’s that it’s not the case even one single time, even in your myopic reading of Num 13:33—it doesn’t exist.
Thus, it doesn’t, “appear to belong to the same larger biblical giant-clan framework.”
Thus, it’s not reasonable, “for people to speak in shorthand and connect the six-fingered giant of Gath to the broader Nephilim/Rephaim problem” since, “Nephilim/Rephaim” is a man-made un-biblical fantasy tall-tale and it’s incoherent to take one single statement about one single person and apply it to whoever many Nephilim existed centuries prior.
It’s not, “the broader theological issue is still hybridized giant clans connected to the rebellion of non-human sons of God and their corruption of mankind” since that’s only about Nephilim and they, of course, didn’t make it past the flood in may way, shape, or form.
“The Bible does not” at all, ever, explicitly nor implicitly, “say the original Nephilim had six fingers” nor anything reliable about any physical features of them.
Yes, “a,” single, “six-fingered/six-toed giant from a Rephaim line” but no, no indication whatsoever of, “Rephaim are part of the broader post-Flood giant-clan tradition” regardless of whatever unnumbered, unnamed, unquoted, and uncited, “researchers” say.
When we sharpen iron with iron, someone tends to get cut.
Well, that ended it since no more interaction was forthcoming—nor was doing a show together.
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