The following discussion came about when a certain Pierre Vigoureux commented as follows in answer to the question Can atheism be proven with logic and evidence, even though it is not based on them?
No.
Atheism is not a belief nor a belief system.
It can’t be proved or disproved.
Atheism is always based on the absence of evidence and the presence of logic.
Always.
The newborn baby is an atheist. He can’t believe in God.
The adult atheist is either that way because he never changed, or because he changes his mind because of the absence of evidence and the presence of logic.
The absence of evidence for every god that has been ever imagined.
The evidence that all the other gods, except for the most fundamental god hypothesis, are just imagined.
The presence of logic that says the absence of evidence is proof enough – when the hypothesis is more than just the fundamental one. The believer in one culture’s sun god will not be a believer in another cultures moon goddess.
The absence of logic to just “believe in something” – when all but the most fundamental god principle are just imagined.
You ask a stupid and ignorant question, that starts out with a completely false assumption.
The newborn baby, who is an atheist by definition, starts out with the logic of the absence of evidence.
Ken Ammi
As Richard Dawkins has noted (who is about a gazillion times more well known for his Atheist missionary endeavors that you): there is an Atheistic world-view, of course.
As for, “Atheism is always based on the absence of evidence and the presence of logic” that’s a shockingly myopic merely asserted positive affirmation.
Well, okay then: all it requires to be an Atheist is to possess the level of rational, logic, scientific understanding, philosophical thought that can be mustered by a baby—granted.
But let’s cut to the chase since you go on and on about evidence: the very first step in systematic critical thinking is for you to first justify your demand for evidence, on your world-view.
Pierre Vigoureux
As Richard Dawkins has noted
Richard Dawkins is a biologist. He is neither a prophet or a priest of the “atheist religion”. Atheism is not a religion. The only reason you mention his name is because he tries to explain to ignorant people – like you – how “evolution” works.
Atheist missionary endeavors
He is not a missionary of any religion, and neither am I.
there is an Atheistic world-view
No there isn’t. Atheism is not a belief or a belief system. Use a dictionary for the definition.
As for, “Atheism is always based on the absence of evidence and the presence of logic” that’s
The truth, not a view. Use a dictionary to learn what the definition of atheism is. The absence of evidence of anything like gods or godhood makes atheism the default position – both for newborn infants and for adults.
all it requires to be an Atheist is to possess the level of rational, logic, scientific understanding, philosophical thought that can be mustered by a baby
I never said that, or anything like that. Atheism is the default position of both the ignorant and stupid – like you – and the informed and intelligent – like me. If you believe in “anything like gods or godhood” you diverge from the default position – and now have a belief system involving gods and godhood.
since you go on and on about evidence
I only need to say the word once. Stupid and ignorant people may need constant repetition to learn something.
the very first step in systematic critical thinking is for you to first justify your demand for evidence
The “system” and the “world view” HAS to start with evidence. To assume something out of faith, out of inheritance from your culture or your parental influence, is to not be critical in any way.
You are confused.
We all start out as atheists, with the default position of ignorance.
We are told about gods and godhood. Each culture and each person will have a different world-view that is told to them.
The critical world-view is to not just accept what we are told.
Some of us can even invent gods and godhood for others to accept.
The critical world-view is to not just believe because we want to believe. The critical world-view denies the relevance of faith or inherited prejudice.
The critical world-view demands evidence to criticise. Both for and against gods and godhood.
And there is no evidence FOR and plenty of evidence AGAINST.
Ken Ammi
I was just noting that an Atheist who is about a gazillion times better know for his Atheist missionary endeavors than you made that statement. So, when others agree with Atheists about Atheism take it up with Atheists first: contact Dawkins and let me know how he replies to you debunking of him.
But, of course, Atheism isn’t a worldview because thus saith Dawkins rather, it’s a worldview because that’s what it is: it’s thought restricting and only allows you to think about things in a certain way dictated by dogmatheism—lest you be excommunicated.
Now, for some reason you moved the goalpost to, “Atheism is not a religion” but, of course, there are many Atheists who have been claiming that it is for a long time: again, take it up with them.
Unlike you, I don’t look up a word in “a” singular, “dictionary for the” singular, “definition” that’s tragically myopic.
You seem to be unaware of basic level linguistics and the history of Atheism, even neo-Atheism, such as that a word can have various meanings/definitions and even more usages and that these can change with time. For example, the positive affirmation of God’s non-existence denomination of Atheism was the original neo-one and thus, the original neo-defintion.
Thus, when you say, “The” merely asserted, “absence of evidence…makes atheism the default position” you betray your lack of knowledge of the linguistics and history of Atheism.
You don’t need to say “all it requires to be an Atheist is to possess the level of rational, logic, scientific understanding, philosophical thought that can be mustered by a baby”: it’s implied—at last if you actually think about that you said.
Now, you’re very, very good at being an arrogant jerk so no more proof is needed for that thus, let’s focus on “the very first step in systematic critical thinking is for you to first justify your demand for evidence” since your reply merely doubled down by piling one assertion atop another since, “The ‘system’ and the ‘world view’ HAS to start with evidence” is a merely assertion.
1) thank for admitting there’s no evidence to back Atheism.
2) what, on your worldview, is the universal imperative for having to start a system and worldview with evidence?
That “We are told about gods and godhood. Each culture and each person will have a different world-view that is told to them” is not only a genetic logical fallacy (is there anything wrong with committing logical fallacies, on your worldview) but applies to Atheist as well: We are told about no gods and no godhood. Each culture and each person will have a different world-view that is told to them.
What, on your worldview, is the universal imperative to adhere to “The” singular, “critical world-view? And, of course, I will not just accept what you told me.
Indeed, “Some of us can even invent gods and godhood for others to accept” such as the Atheist god and the many gods of Atheism: the individual Atheists who inevitably merely assert that they are THE authority.
Again, what, on your worldview, is the universal imperative “demands evidence”?
As for, “there is no evidence FOR and plenty of evidence AGAINST” those are mere assertions.
FYI: feel free to drop all of this besides taking the very first critical thinking step which is to justify your demand for evidence, on your worldview.
That brought the discussion to an end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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