The Israel Institute of Biblical Studies Facebook/Meta page posted Unraveling the Mystery of the Nephilim: Giants or Fallen Angels? wherein the following statement was made:
“The Bible whispers of the Nephilim—beings of incredible strength who roamed the Earth before the great flood. Were they fallen angels cast down from the heavens, or legendary warriors whose feats echo through time? The true nature of the Nephilim is shrouded in mystery, but their story continues to captivate us. What aspect of their story intrigues you the most? Share your thoughts in the comments below!
A certain Maritta Hakola shared this comment
Someone on the Ark must have carried the genom..
I, True Freethinker, replied
You contradicted the Bible five times (Genesis 7:7, 23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5) does that matter to you?
And what makes you think that God failed, that He missed the loophole you figured out, and that the flood was much of a waste?
Maritta Hakola
You are attacking..not having a conversation. I’m not here to win an argument. Stop throwing up your angry bile on people. If and when you are able to have a proper conversation like a human being we can talk.
True Freethinker
Your emotively subjective mis-interpretation of my words on a screen is a personal problem. Are you able to engage the issue or not? You don’t seem to like the implications of your mere assertion so rather than taking it out on me for pointing them out, change your demonstrably mistaken view.
Tracey Williams chimed in with
Maritta Hakola, Not necessarily, some Hebrew scholars consider the use of the Hebrew imperfect in this clause (Genesis 6:4) to allow for repetition: it could be read “whenever” the sons of the gods went into the daughters of men, they bore them children.
True Freethinker
But that whenever was all pre-flood since 1) the flood wasn’t much of a waste, 2) there’s zero reliable indication of post-flood Nephilim, 3) those Angels were incarcerated and 4) there’s only a one time fall of Angels in the Bible.
Tracey Williams
Genesis 6:4 intentionally informs readers that the Nephilim were on the earth before the flood “and also afterward.” The phrase anticipates Numbers 13:33, which states very clearly that the large descendants of Anak “came from the Nephilim.” The Anakim were also one of the giant clans described in the conquest narratives of Deuteronomy and Joshua.
I’m aware that tradition talks of a primeval fall that involved one third of the angelic realm, but that’s not found in Scripture. The closest you’ll get is Revelation 12, but that context is the birth and ascension of the Messiah that caused war in heaven.
Again, I’ve not made a dogmatic statement regarding “whenever,” just pointing out that some scholars consider the use of the Hebrew imperfect allows for repetition. The only other explanation would be that the flood wasn’t a worldwide event and was restricted to the known world in the table of nations. It’s interesting to consider the possibilities.
I do know that the Bible is about theological messaging and not an historical record, so once the sin of the watchers was explained, additional polemic evidence against the Mesopotamian stories wouldn’t be necessary.
True Freethinker
Notice that you were forced to artificially insert “the flood” into God’s Word but could only quote God’s Word as stating “and also afterward.”
What makes you read the flood into a statement that says nothing about it?
In fact, the flood’s not mention for the very first time until a full 13 verses later so you’re cheating, you’re reading ahead and then doing a u-turn to anachronistically insert the flood where it doesn’t belong.
Worse yet, by doing that un-hermeneutical thing, that eisegesis, you’re missing that v. 4 is telling you exactly to what days it’s referring: please re-read it without prejudice.
Note how generic you were in telling me that a book, chapter, and verse say something, “Numbers 13:33,” while ignoring key reading comprehension questions such as who said it, why was it said, what was the reaction to it, was it accurate, etc., etc., etc.
Plus, for some odd reason you didn’t include v. 32 which tells you that you’re about to read an “evil report” and it’s that report by 10 unreliable guys whom God rebuked that, “states very clearly” the literally impossible tall-tale about post-flood Nephilim.
Also, why didn’t you mention that you’re not only relying exclusively on one single verse but one single verse from exclusively non-LXX versions?
When you say, “Anakim were also one of the giant clans” I’m going to guess that you’re no familiar enough with this topic to realize that you’re correct by accident since biblically contextually, “Anakim were also one of the giant clans” means, “Anakim were also one of the Rephaim clans” and so they were, they were a subgroup/clan of the Rephaim tribe.
So yes, Rephaim/Anakim were “described in the conquest narratives of Deuteronomy and Joshua” but not Nephilim—likely why when Moses relates the Num 13 events in Deut 1, he utterly ignores Nephilim—why didn’t you mention that?
Indeed, “primeval fall that involved one third of the angelic realm…not found in Scripture.”
“the Hebrew imperfect allows for repetition” which ends at the flood: if, that is, you’re the least bit concerned about logic, bio-logic, and theo-logic.
The scope of the flood is irrelevant to Nephilology since they either didn’t make it past the flood because it was global or because they lived in the flooded region: either way, they didn’t make it past the flood in any way, shape, or form.
“the Bible is about theological messaging and” also, “an historical record.”
Your entire theory is based on considering 10 unreliable guys whom God rebuked to be infallible but they’re the very ones who invented the un-biblical tall-tale on which you rely.
That brought the discussion to an end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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