The question Are atheists sure their atheism is not a religion? Otherwise, why would they feel the need to proclaim their atheism? led to the following discussion after a certain Jonathan Willis replied
Newsflash !!!! Contrary to what the writer of this question says or thinks ,Athists unlike Christians don’t proclaim Atheism at all. But Christians constantly proclaim their belief in a God they can’t prove exists,in a desperate attempt to get more people to believe in him , and that Athists are wrong not to believe in the same God they do,even though as. Christians they’re no more successful in life because they believe in him than they would be if they didn’t believe in him. And despite christians claim that when they die they’re going somewhere special, the truth they can’t face is that when they die they’re going into a wooden box and then either into a furnace or a 6ft deep hole just like atheists do as the place they think they go just like the one they claim atheists will go to if they don’t start to believe in God doesn’t exist except in their heads
Ken Ammi
Fascinating, I’ve oft noted that Atheism is an anti-Christian support group and you piled more evidence atop that.
The question was, “Are atheists sure their atheism is not a religion? Otherwise, why would they feel the need to proclaim their atheism?” but you incoherently moved the goalpost to a rant against Christianity.
As for, “Athists…don’t proclaim Atheism at all” friend, you must live under a rock—with another rock on top of it: there are TONS of Atheist missionaries all over the place. Just set up an account pretending to be a Christian and interact with some Atheists, you’ll see my point in circa 1 nano second.
As for, “can’t prove exists” well, the very first step is for you to justify demanding proof (not evidence?) on your worldview—if, that is, you believe in systematic critical thinking.
As for, “when they die they’re going into a wooden box and then either into a furnace or a 6ft deep hole just like atheists do” well, that’s what happens to the body, it’s also you asserting a positive affirmation, and it’s one of Atheism’s consoling delusions.
At least you informed us of to which Atheist denomination you adhere, the positive affirmation of God’s non-existence mere assertion of a positive affirmation demonization, “God doesn’t exist.”
As for, “…except in their heads” well, that’s just another merely asserted positive affirmation.
Jonathan Willis
You never see atheists shoving their none belief down peoples throats in the high street the way you do Christians shoving the bible down peoples do you…..no but you can regularly see Christians doing it desperately trying to get people to think the way they do about a God they cannot prove exists.
The point of our going into a wooden box and into a 6ft hole or furnace when we die whether Christians or atheists is a point of fact that anyone with a brain can prove can you prove them wrong . Do you know of anyone who’s body has physically gone somewhere else or can you prove heaven exists and people go there as opposed to being buried in a grave or put in a furnace when they die.which apart from. In some Christians who firmly believe heaven actually exists heads you can’t prove can you
Ken Ammi
So, it’s accurate that you moved the goalpost to rant against Christians.
Is there anything wrong with logical fallacies such as moving the goalpost, on your worldview?
Now, you asserted, “Athists…don’t proclaim Atheism at all” but backed up so as to add an arbitrary qualifier, “shoving their none belief down peoples throats in the high street” and also turned that into a besmirchment of Christians.
Now, what, on your worldview, would be wrong with what you caricature as, “shoving their none belief down peoples throats in the high street…shoving the bible down peoples.”
Also, I noted, “the very first step is for you to justify demanding proof (not evidence?) on your worldview—if, that is, you believe in systematic critical thinking.” So, it seems that you’re not interested in systematic critical thinking since you merely doubled down with, “God they cannot prove exists” and added “can prove can you prove…can you prove…can’t prove.” So, you’re getting ahead of yourself.
Now, I understand why you reject systematic critical thinking since there’s no universal imperative to adhere to systematic critical thinking, on your worldview. And, obviously, none to provide proof (not evidence?) either. So, if you were interested in systematic critical thinking you would realize you can no longer complain about (supposedly) not being provided proof.
Yet, as I noted, you make a knowledge claim in terms of a merely jumped to mere assertion of a mere positive affirmation based on mere hidden assumption, “God doesn’t exist.”
Jonathan Willis
I’ve yet to see an Atheist standing up in any High Street shoving their lack of belief in God and trying to people to think they way they do have you seen them doing it, but you regularly see Christians doing it, because they cannot accept or 4 some reason believe that its perfectly possible to live a happy, successful life without believing in a God you can’t prove exists.and that’s despite the fact that most of the most successful people in the world don’t believe in God. And 4 some reason Christians think that when they die something magical happens and they don’t actually die get buried or cremated, they get eternal life.
Christian or atheists what’s meant to happen in your life happens, praying doesn’t change that, but Christians think things happen because they’ve prayed about it ,they refuse to acknowledge that it would have happened anyway, seriously ill people only survive because of prayer apparently, not because of the skill of drs or becauseyou werent meant to doe yet & if you die its because God intended you to.
Ken Ammi
I see you base your view upon what you subjectively see or don’t see—or cover your eyes and then assert what you see and don’t see. Firstly, take a look around then maybe consider that Atheists set the world’s mass and serial murdering records in mere decades even when competing, as it were, against “religions” that had been around for millennia: that’s beyond “Atheist standing up in any High Street shoving their lack of belief in God,” that’s just wiping out accidentally existing apes and there’s literally nothing wrong with it on Atheism.
In fact, there’s also nothing wrong with what “you regularly see Christians doing.”
But it’s already been clear that you invented some dogmathism and can’t step an inch beyond it since you conveniently ignore what I say and just keep doubling, tripling, quadrupling, etc. down on assertions such as, “a God you can’t prove exists” which, again, is an issue that only comes upon AFTER you justify demanding proof, on your worldview.
Jonathan Willis replied to your comment on an answer to: “Are atheists sure their atheism is not a religion? Otherwise, why would they feel the need to proclaim their atheism?”
I don’t ignore what you say ,l just don’t happen to agree with you,if you want to believe God actually exists and answers prayers and your life is totally guided by him and you do whet he says rather than what you want to do that’s your choice,me l will live in the real world where things happen or don’t happen because they’re meant to happen 4 goodcor 4 bad ,not because l prayed about it or didn’t . My life hasn’t done whet it did regardless of whether I believed in God or not,and if there is a god who decides our lives then why are their atheists out there more successful in life than most Christians are.youd have thought it would be the other way round wouldn’t you.
Oh and BTW Christians murder people too, for example HITLER, MUSSOLINI, who were both Christians and othersxtoo through the centuries have done & still do
Ken Ammi
Friend, it’s bad enough you’re literally incapable of engaging taking step number one, do you really have to attempt to talk me into believing that you’re not doing what you’re doing? Of course you ignore what I say and part of the proof is that this discussion goes around and around and around and around in the tiny circle of waiting for you to do that.
Ever stop and ponder why you’re literally incapable? You and the literally hundreds of Atheists with whom I’ve had the same discussion.
Now, you refer to the “real world” but on your worldview that world is accidental, as is your ability to discern it, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand that others do so.
Now, how could it be that in that accidental world “things happen or don’t happen because they’re meant to happen” since there’s no objective meaning therein?
As for, “4 goodcor 4 bad” there’s no such objective thing in such an accidental world, there’s only emotively subjective interpretations of accidents and likewise with “successful.”
As for, “Christians murder people too” that’s a tu quoque fallacy (not that logical fallacies matter, on your worldview) but you must be the reason why the word “gullible” isn’t even in the dictionary when you say “HITLER, MUSSOLINI…were both Christians.”
Seriously, don’t you ever think about what you say, or ponder your worldview’s implications, or engage in critical thinking before just parroting Atheism 101 talking points?
Jonathan Willis
To start with I’m not your friend, 2ndly you can preach what you like and say you can prove God exists the facts remain the same Christians try to get people to believe in a god they themselves can’t actually physically prove exists but insist does because a book called the bible says he does & thry believe what that book says & stall when ever they’re asked 4 proof by telling people to prove he doesn’t. The fact is Atheist can’t prove he doesn’t any more than Christians can prove he does ,but I’ve never seen anyone stand on a street corner trying to claim he doesn’t the way I have Christians claiming he does. Why can’t Christians just shut up & respect people’s right to decide whether to believe in God or nor rather than spouting crap about them ending up burning in hell if they don’t believe in him,rather than being in paradise if they do when they die. When any intelligent human being knows that Christians or atheists you end up in a 6ft deep hole or in a crematorium furnace not in hell or paradise.
As for Hitler & mussolini thry were both Catholics there fore they believed in God and thus they were Christians
Ken Ammi
Not my friend well, we’ll have to change that. As for, “fact”: have you not been paying attention since you’re so loyal to your dogmatheism? On your worldview facts are accidental, as is our ability to discern them, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to them, nor to demand that others do so. I realize that you utterly despise the implications of your worldview but in that case, a best practice would be to give up that miserably collapsed failure.
Another instance of your dogmatheism trance is that you still utterly refuse to engage in systematic critical thinking and I know it’s because your worldview can’t handle it. Thus, you—yet again and again and again and again—begin with the jumped to conclusion, “actually physically prove exists” whatever that means” but failed time and time and time again and again and again to take the very first step.
Why can’t Atheists just shut up & respect people’s right to decide whether to believe in God?
But you merely asserted yet again since it’s a merely emotively subjective personal preference that Christians stop doing that so that’s not a standard.
As for, Hitler & Mussolini again, you’re the reason that “gullible” isn’t in the dictionary. Also, you pulled text-book classic worldclass reductio (good thing for you there’s nothing wrong with logical fallacies on your worldview): since you utterly ignore Atheists all over the planet mass and serial murdering MILLIONS of people at world record levels and desperately point to two guys.
So, your point seems to be that you find Hitler & Mussolini to have been such upright and trustworthy fellows that, by golly, if they claimed to be Catholic then they were: wow!
You can believe that based on their self-identification but I’m not that gullible since Jesus said that we would know His followers by their fruit.
It’s also fascinating that you think that Hitler, the world’s most infamous anti-Semite worshiped a Jew as his Lord, God, and Savior: wow! I see that Nazi propaganda is alive and well—and still working on people like you.
That brought the discussion to and end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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