Ancient Giants and Biblical Giants with guest Gary Wayne

This is a double whammy post of discussions.

The first took place due to the video Special LIVE report – Biblical Giants with guest Gary Wayne, which I just found out YouTube says, “isn’t available anymore,” to which Priscilla Amavizca commented

WOW he literally went from Genesis to Revelation, past history to future and end times, and connected everything together so articulated!……………

For some reason, I don’t have a record of my reply but you can infer it from her reply to me since Priscilla Amavizca wrote back

Hi Ken! I really appreciate all your work and perspective as well. I think the differences in perspective between youand Gary come down to worldview differences. I watched your first 2 videos with George so when I watched your debate video, I got context for where you’re coming from.

When I studied Old Testament in my Chriatian university, we discussed the same points you did and your perspective is similar to what my professor (expert in Genesis and early Bible books) deduced. So I TOTALLY get where your coming from (for example, “giant” and “men of great stature/renown” also meant men who were mighty warriors and heros, etc, not necessarily giant).

However it could even mean BOTH in deed and in physical, we just won’t know how they meant it back then. And honestly just like you said in your debate video, it’s a topic that’s just a bit too vague to draw accurate conclusions without assuming too much lol, on both ends. I think both of you had excellent arguments, I understood what both of you and Gary meant.

I did find you were being a bit more attacking to Gary more than he was to you, he only started attacking back after being defensive, and you were being a bit snickering and laughing at him while he talked. But I loved how you apologized in case at the end. It’s hard to argue about something you’re so passionate without almost getting a bit personal lol!

To me, Gary’s perspective tied into what the cohost, Jessie, has shared in her knowledge of bloodlines, the deeper spiritual connections and implications of these potential “beings,’ and the more esoteric knowledge of the past that the “elites” seem to agree with on in their own books and writings, which I have read some and can confirm they are both right on that as well. And she also claims that she has personally witnessed these giants, which comes down to us individually whether we believe she is being truthful or not.

So it’s a bit tricky. One of Jessie’s mentors, Cisco, who also claims to have been a mother of darkness, says she feels she knows how that post-flood giants appeared (she talks about it on Right On Radio) and it makes for solid argument if you hold the worldview of how deeply spiritual everything is.

And I guess that’s just the thing that makes your perspective mostly different from Gary’s: a worldview perspective. Gary seems to consider the spiritual aspects as details that are more significant to the case, such as the ones we discuss on this program, while you focus on the traditional interpretations of the Bible, such as my more-or-less conservative Bible university professor and his colleges. Both of you are very well studied, however, and we always need to keep our heads thinking and jot just focused on one perspective or one that tickles our ears more.

Keep up the good work! Blessings!

Ken Ammi

Most interesting! Now, I’m sure you’ll empathize when I note that when you say “‘giant’…also meant men who were mighty warriors and heros, etc, not necessarily giant” I’ll ask to what you’re referring since in your English Bible “giant” is merely rendering “Nephilim” or “Rephaim”: neither of which imply anything about height or might or hero—even if applied to such. This was a key aspect of the debate: I urged that we not use the term “giant” and quite a ways into the debate Gary essentially stated the same.

See, when you refer to “we just won’t know how they meant it back then” that’s a secondary issue since you didn’t tell me to what word you’re referring: what Hebrew word.

What’s “a bit too vague” is using a vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage, and undefined English word to refer to various things yet, the Biblical data is quite clear. Also, recall that Gary admitted not knowing how “big” Nephilim were but insists on calling them “giants.”

I never once attacked Gary in any way, shape, or form: I critiqued his views. He, in turn, accused me of denying God’s word.

But if you want to tally who attacked, snickered, and laughed: you may be surprised.

I apologized that he mistook me for interrupting: I only did so due to seeking to get him to clarify a point before finishing his statement. The issue was that he made so many errors that by the time he finished a statement there were too many errors with which to deal.

I do find that when we seek to sharpen iron with iron (which is what I said we were doing), someone gets cut.

In short: Gary, Jessie, and Cisco teach post-flood Nephilim (in one way or another) but the Bible does not. I chose to not contradict the Bible and not imply that God failed.

My heart breaks for Jessie but you must, or so I think, keep in mind that it’s very, very tricky to rely on someone who has undergone mind control—especially when they are making claims that, again, contradict the Bible.

Again, I can’t interact with that she “personally witnessed these giants” since I know not who “these” are?

Also, perhaps Nephilim were unusually tall, I have no idea, my only point is that we just don’t know—and Gary agrees with me.

I’m unsure how my worldview is different from Cisco or Gary on the basis of “how deeply spiritual everything is”: keep in mind that there’s a reason I call myself a “Systematic Biblical Paranormologist.”

So, perhaps “Gary seems to consider the spiritual aspects as details that are more significant to the case” but he’s also making claims about the material/physical realm that don’t seem to be at all accurate. Ask yourself how many times, for example, you’ve hear him refer to Nephilim as “giants” meaning unusually tall and how you now have to review all such claims since I asked him one simple question and he admitted he doesn’t know if they were “giants”—please don’t underplay how utterly significant that is.

I understand that tall tales tickles our ears more than analyzing the data systematically but we are called to rightly divide God’s word.

Shalom!

Well, that was the end of that one.

The next discussion was due to the video, “Ancient Giants” to which Margie Cook commented

This was my take on the “after that” thing. Noah and his wife and sons were genetically pure. The wives of the sons were chosen shortly before the flood. They were not genetically pure. So some of the children of ham Shem and japheth were Nephilim. I feel like that is where the Giants came from after the flood.

They were also not allowed to have children during the time they were on the ark. This is possibly why. I believe it was ham that some of the new Giants came from. They were not as big as the ones before. I am not saying that I am totally correct on this but it was my understanding. Just thought I would throw that out there. May Elohim bless you in all you do.

Ken Ammi

So, are you saying God failed? Did He miss the genetic loophole? Was the flood essentially a waste then? FYI: you’re having to invent tall tales to explain “Giants…after the flood” but you jumped from the specific Hebrew term “Nephilim” to the generic English one “Giants” so to whom are you referring? Also, we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim so why equate them with issues of height?

Margie Cook

I’m not saying that Elohim failed! What is wrong with you? The Word tells us that there were giants after the flood. Maybe you should read your Bible instead of trolling and  attacking folks just trying to figure things out. Giants were Nephilim. They also sinned against animals so I’m pretty sure they would be considered Nephilim also. Maybe I’m right and you’re just mad because you can’t figure things out on your own. If you couldn’t even understand my comment, that explains why you can’t understand the Bible. I’m beyond done with trolls. Be gone HaSatan!

Ken Ammi

I’ll ignore your worldly unrighteous anger—but please do repent.

Where is it that “The Word tells us that there were giants after the flood”?

When you say “Giants were Nephilim” it seems that you’re not aware that in your English Bible the term “giants” is rendering (not even translating) both “Nephilim” and also “Rephaim” (who have nothing to do with Nephilim) so that it’s myopically incorrect to blanketly assert “Giants were Nephilim.”

When you say “They also sinned against animals” you’re referring to folklore from MILLENNIA after the Torah was written. Also, you seem to not understand to what that line is referring: it has nothing to do with some sort of Nephilim animals—or, whatever you implied.

Keep in mind that I asked a question, “So, are you saying God failed?” and asked “Did He miss the genetic loophole?” and asked “Was the flood essentially a waste then?”

I then noted, “you’re having to invent tall tales to explain ‘Giants…after the flood’ but you jumped from the specific Hebrew term ‘Nephilim’ to the generic English one ‘Giants’” and so I asked “so to whom are you referring?”

I also noted, “we’ve no reliable physical description of Nephilim” and asked “so why equate them with issues of height?”

You don’t seem to be very interested in actually discussing the problems you caused and vagaries you sated.

Overall, I’m seeking to sharpen iron with iron and you called me a bunch of names—again, please repent.

And well, that ended that discussion.

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