That question was posted to the Quora site.
Krister Sundelin replied
A: Because: Atheism is not based on authority, but on not believing in gods (this is something that theists do not seem to be able to wrap their heads around).
Not believing in gods is not an idea, but a state of mind (this too is something that theists do not seem to be able to grasp).
Nietzche is a bigger numpty than his ‘stasche.
I, Ken Ammi, replied
Every Atheist demand that their subjective definition of Atheism is THE authoritative one but such is not the case thus, your first point fails: Atheism is a worldview.
Your second point is playing semantic games at its worse: how is “Not believing” something “not an idea” and what does the distinction between it being an idea or “a state of mind” matter—FYI: minds entertain ideas.
A certain, “CognitiveScience” replied
Atheism is not a worldview. It simply means not theist.
Someone can be an atheist for any number of reasons.
It really is about the human mind.
Theists are easily indoctrinated into the local cultural belief system.
Atheists understand the stories are not true. Their minds are more rational and less emotional.
So why do you believe whatever you do?
Likely you never thought to question your belief. Only the beliefs of others.
I have no beliefs. ZERO.
I like knowledge. Always a sliding scale based on quality of the evidence.
Humans do not choose to be gay. Humans do not choose to be a polymath. Humans do not choose to be athletically gifted. Humans do not choose to be superstitious.
You were born with a mind predisposed to gods, religions, rituals, group think and other such things. Others are not.
I did not choose to be rational. I just am.
You are human. Just different.
Others with your type of mind believe all sorts of irrational things.
Conservative minds are like the Taliban or the Puritans. Believe as we do or die. They can’t accept different. It causes their minds too much pain from fear.
Liberal minds are more open to change and seeing the world through the eyes of others.
So while still theist they accept others.
Now atheists being human don’t like being lied to. They are also correct and don’t like superstitious humans claiming all sorts of nonsense and getting mad when it’s called out for what it is.
So is not being a superstitious blowhard a worldview? Nope.
Ken Ammi
Since you say Atheism is not a worldview then you disagree with Richard Dawkins—which is fine with me, I do it all the time.
But it’s facile and myopic to assert, “It simply means not theist” since not being a theist carries baggage and that baggage is a worldview.
On Atheism, the human mind is accidental—as is the human, of course.
You’ll have to talk to the theists who were easily indoctrinated into the local cultural belief system about that one.
You seem to jump to a lot of conclusions such “Atheists understand the stories are not true” when, on Atheism, truth is accidental, as is our ability to discern it, there’s no universal imperative to adhere to it, nor to demand that others adhere to it either.
But when you demand that all Atheists have “more rational and less emotional” minds well, you utterly discredited yourself by being so very generic.
Do you believe that you “have no beliefs”?
You hit the nail on the head with “I like knowledge” since you’re admitting it’s a subjective personal preference du jour (based on hidden assumptions) since you can’t say that gaining knowledge is a must, an ought, any sort of imperative at all, on Atheism.
You refer to “evidence” but merely imply that we ought to acquire it and rely on it—you’ve no premise for that, on Atheism.
Perhaps “Humans do not choose to be gay” but they do chose to live a gay lifestyle.
But since “Humans do not choose to be superstitious” you can’t condemn superstitious humans, such as theists, right?
But when you merely assert, “You were born with a mind predisposed to gods, religions, rituals, group think and other such things. Others are not. I did not choose to be rational,” etc., you’re merely listing Atheist talking points based on some sort of materialism which you merely seem to assume.
Minds are like Atheists, believe as we do or be murdered.. They can’t accept different. It causes their minds too much pain from fear.
You hit the subjectivism nail on the head again (well done!) with, “atheists being human don’t like being lied to” so they subjectively don’t “like” it even though on Atheism there’s no universal imperative against lying. Just like they “don’t like superstitious humans claiming all sorts of…” but what happens when those superstitious humans, who you said were born that way, don’t care what Atheists like?
Now, since you say Atheism isn’t a worldview: in what area of your thinking about anything and everything do you actually accept God’s existence?
CognitiveScience
Any “baggage” as to not being a theist is only due to theists projecting their issues. Atheists are defined by theists. I’m not carrying any “baggage” by not believing that leprechauns are real. I suppose leprechaun believers might have issues with that. Do you believe in them? Does it cause you “baggage”.
Atheism means “not theist”.
Atheists only share that they do not worship a god or gods. Why they do so may certainly differ.
As to your “accidental” and “truth” comments it sounds like woo.
Certainly atheists know the stories are not true. Humans can tell the difference between fact and fiction. Between real and imaginary. Not all humans. Not on all subjects.
Belief is not a word that defines me. I don’t believe anything. I use knowledge and probabilities. It appears you want to play some kind of semantic game with the word belief. Humans do have knowledge on many things.
So define belief exactly.
I can say I know the Christian god is not real. I’m not saying everyone can. Maybe you can or can’t. I am saying I can and the human race can. Lot’s of knowledge of why it’s myth and lies.
My having studied why humans are superstitious and why humans have false beliefs doesn’t mean all atheists do so or that they need to.
It’s knowledge not evidence. There have been many gods invented by humans. Many superstitious beliefs. All easy to learn about if you study history and anthropology. The Egyptians had their gods and the Aztecs theirs. Next is demographics and also anthropology. Humans believe what their culture teaches them. Simply pull up a Google map and it will show you a world divided into specific belief systems. Then study why small hunter gatherers didn’t need religion. They were and still are superstitious.
So we know humans are superstitious and gods are cultural. Know it. It’s not a belief. It’s knowledge.
Next is why? We know the gods aren’t real because they simply have no basis in Reality. Logic dictates that. Later evaluations using knowledge rule out gods as easily false. No need to but we can if we want to.
Next we know that current theists only believe in their god or gods. Or whatever. So we study why they can easily call another’s superstition false yet hold onto their own false belief. It’s called cognitive dissonance. Knowledge not a belief.
Humans do not choose to be gay. Theists do not choose to be superstitious. Atheists do not choose to not believe in a god. They simply can not because they know it’s not true. Know it. Not a belief. Einstein did not choose to be a genius. Artists don’t choose to be creative. Athletes do not choose to have a specific hand/eye coordination ability. This is not a belief. this is knowledge.
Not all human minds are the same. Not all human environments are the same. This is not a belief. It is knowledge.
If one has a mind pre-disposed to group think, cultural indoctrination, deference to authority, is more predisposed to symbols and ritual and can’t overcome the illusory truth effect then they likely will become some kind of a theist. What god is determined by their environment and culture. This is not a belief it is knowledge.
Again semantics. Atheists don’t like the god lies. It gets old. Certainly they don’t like other lies. Atheism isn’t a lie. Atheism is just “not theism”. But you are deflecting. You like your strawman and rhetoric.
In the end you showed your true colors. You resorted to an attack on all atheists for something that had nothing to do with atheism. Such tripe has been used for decades. Religion is politics. It’s used to attack others and create a scapegoat for issues. Religion is used to create a tribe for those in power can more easily control them. Atheism is simply “not theism”. It is not communism. It’s not liberalism. It’s simply “not theism”.
Yet your ignorance of history is only eclipsed by your ignorance of this whole subject.
So you have years of work ahead for you. Quora isn’t where you will get an exhaustive education. So put down your one book and read what is available to you in libraries all over the world.
Study why humans believe.
That provides knowledge.
When you understand you will have wisdom.
It’s possible you might not be able to. Very smart humans are also very superstitious. Lots of cognitive issues for you to overcome. Depends how much was a result of your Nurture and how much is in your Nature.
What god?
Do you have one that hasn’t been proven false? Or myth?
Ask yourself why you care what atheists think about your superstition. Stop projecting your limitations onto others.
Ken Ammi
All worldviews carry baggage whether you realize you’re carrying it or not.
Atheists share TONS more than that, which I can tell you by experience.
So, you’re going to run away from your worldview’s implication that truth is accidental by merely typing the word “woo”—wow!
The issues you don’t engage is that even if “atheists know the stories are not true” that tells us nothing about why that matters at all. Or, “Humans can tell the difference between fact and fiction. Between real and imaginary” so what? On Atheism there’s no universal imperative to adhere to accidental truth, accidental facts, accidental reality so you’re just getting ahead of yourself.
Do you believe that you “don’t believe anything”? Back to the issue I just noted: you (supposedly) use knowledge and probabilities to have knowledge but, on Atheism, that’s just a subjective personal preference du jour—like telling me what ice cream flavor you prefer.
Sure, you “can say”—since anyone can say anything—you “know the Christian god is not real” but you saying it is impotent.
Interestingly, one view about “why humans are superstitious” is that it’s a Darwinian survival mechanism so by arguing against superstitions you may be damaging someone’s ability to survive. Of course, the very desire, instinct to survive in the first place is accidental, on Atheism.
That “Humans believe what their culture teaches them” is a genetic fallacy, it’s also irrelevant, and you don’t actually believe it since you likely didn’t grow up in an Atheist culture.
Again, you refer to “no basis in Reality” which is irrelevant on Atheism, and “Logic dictates” which is irrelevant on Atheism or don’t you take your worldview seriously?
Interestingly, current Atheists only believe in their cosmogenic myths. Or whatever. So we study why they can easily call another’s superstition false yet hold onto their own false belief. But there’s nothing wrong with cognitive dissonance on Atheism.
Perhaps “Humans do not choose to be gay” but they choose to carry out a gay lifestyle. “Einstein did not choose to be a genius” but he chose into what he put his genius.
I’m going to note that I’m no longer interested in trading essays with you hereafter since you keep merely jumping to asserted conclusions and they all come back to the very same point. For example, “They simply can not because they know it’s not true” which has what, exactly, to do with Atheism? Nothing. “Know it. Not a belief” yeah, right! And just how do all Atheist “Know” that? See, you just need to deal with the fact that your worldview collapsed, it failed before it even began: that’s why you can’t actually argue but merely begin with conclusions.
Again (and again, and again) you merely jump to “you are deflecting. You like your strawman and rhetoric” without a premise and besides, I’ve studied the history and definitions (plural) or Atheism as well as Atheist denominations.
Interestingly, you attack others and complain about that “Religion” (paining with a broad brush broom, just as when you pretend to speak for all Atheists) is “used to attack others…” and when you speak for all Atheists you “create a tribe.”
It’s fascinating that since I’m dissecting your worldview and you don’t like it, you there are years of work ahead of me even though I’ve literally interacted with THOUSANDS of Atheists regularly for over a decade. So, put down your bag of Atheist talking points and deal with the issues that are inconvenient to your worldview.
Then we can get to discussing the one true God of the Bible who hasn’t been proven false.
Andrew Sutcliffe chimed in with
simple, its just one persons opinion, so why shouldn’t they?
Ken Ammi
One reason to care what Nietzsche said is that he predicted what resulted in Atheists—by any other name—set the world’s mass and serial murdering record in mere decades (even when competing against religions that had been around for millennia).
See chapter, “The Faulty Conclusion and the Deicidal and Misanthropic Prophecies” of my book “From Zeitgeist to Poltergeist: A Consideration of Richard Dawkins’ Polemics Regarding Christianity, Atheism, Communism, Nazism and Evolution.”
Andrew Sutcliffe
firstly, the difference is athiests didn’t kill because a deity with no proof of existing commanded them to, they did it usually for power and control, which by coincidence so did followers of Gods,but they were commanded to, can you find me anywhere that commands non believers to go out and rape torture and kill?.
Secondly, The Christian God drowned the entire planet according to the bible, and commanded the slaughter of 1000s in his name
Ken Ammi
Fortunately, those Atheists told us why they did what they did and it was motivated by their world-view.
You decided to refer to “a deity with no proof of existing” which merely supposed that proof is some sort of universal imperative on your world-view but how so?
Also, if you’re demanding proof then the first step is for you to justify your demand from your world-view.
And, on your world-view there’s nothing wrong with murdering (“kill” is the wrong term, ethically, to use within this context) for any reason including power and control nor with having “drowned the entire planet…commanded the slaughter of 1000s.”
Thus, your world-view is an open door to “go out and rape torture and” murder since: is it not?
Andrew Sutcliffe
And anybody can go out and rape torture and murder as much as they want,the good thing is,most people don’t want to do it,and it’s not because a God tells them.not to,it’s because they choose not to.
But again,show me where the likes of Hitler etc were commanded to kill by a God.
As for proof,there is none anywhere that any Gods are real,unless you have some to share?.
People kill for many reasons,bit not Manny do it because a God tells them to,again they do it for power,control,money or just out of anger
Ken Ammi
How do you know that “most people don’t want to” “rape torture and murder” “and it’s not because a God tells them.not to”?
But, indeed, on Atheism “anybody can go out and rape torture and murder as much as they want” but it’s nice that some “choose not to” but note that you subjectivized it: it’s a subjective personal preference of theirs (based on hidden assumptions) and there’s nothing wrong with rape torture and murder, on Atheism.
I’ve no idea what you’re talking about the likes of Hitler, etc. being “commanded to kill by a God.”
What I noted was, “Fortunately, those Atheists told us why they did what they did and it was motivated by their world-view.”
You may also recall that I noted, “if you’re demanding proof then the first step is for you to justify your demand from your world-view.”
Thus, you merely doubled down on demanding proof without a justification.
But note that you positively affirmed, “there is none anywhere” (which means you’re more militant than Bertrand Russell and Richard Dawkins, for two) so are you claiming to be omniscient?
Indeed, “People kill for many reasons…power,control,money or just out of anger” and the Atheists I noted did so due to their worldview allowing them to do.
Also, on Atheism they enjoyed their evil doing, their causing of pain and suffering, and they got away with it in the end since there’s no transcendent judgment. In fact, they just rid us of bothersome worthless eaters, the less fit.
This is part of how Atheism makes evil, pain, and suffering even worse.
Thus, evil, pain, and suffering are some of the best reasons for rejecting Atheism.
Andrew Sutcliffe
“This is part of how Atheism makes evil, pain, and suffering even worse.Thus, evil, pain, and suffering are some of the best reasons for rejecting Atheism.”
You mean unlike forcing your daughter to marry her rapist?, to command your followers to go out and kill all men and boys yet fetch back the virgin women for your slaves?, to own people and pass them down to your sons?, to have your unruly son stoned to death?, to ask a man to murder his own son just to test his faith?, to drown an entire planet including innocent children and babies just because they are not living by your terms and conditions?, To sacrifice your own son to remove the sin of humanity despite the fact that you created sin and could of forgiven us without doing that?, after all he is all powerful according to Christians.
The fact is the deaths are because their God commanded them to throughout history, you can try and justify it, but if you follow the biblical God with all he has done, then you have no right to question others morals. No matter how clever you try to dress it up.
Reading the bible is enough to make anybody athiest
Ken Ammi
I see you’re incapable of dealing with my statements about Atheism so you attempted to pull a tu quoque (not that there’s anything wrong with that on Atheism).
Before you ask all of those questions (much of which you clearly don’t understand: did you get that list from an Atheist talking point website or something?) what, on your worldview, is wrong with any of those things you listed? Please note that if you’ve no ability to absolutely condemn them, on your worldview, then they become non-issues and you don’t get to appeal to them (but that’s only if you subjectively chose to be consistent since consistency isn’t a universal imperative, on Atheism) since, “you have no right to question others morals.”
I can see how “Reading the bible is enough to make anybody athiest” since one of Atheism’s consoling delusions is the delusion of absolute autonomy and another is the delusion of lack of transcendent accountability—plus, Atheism is auto-theistic and Atheists say they shall have no gods besides themselves.
Andrew Sutcliffe
If you’re the sort of human who sees nothing wrong with theist I posted then there is something badly wrong with you and you need to seek medical help from a qualified mental health specialist
.you can try to make out you’re so intelligent and intellectual by using the phrases you are doing,but all it tells me is that you can waffle on,yet still say or prove absolutely f**k all.
You carry on thinking you’re so clever if it plays to your superiority complex,bit all the big words and phrases in the world won’t get away from the point that you’re a bit of an [*******] who appears to be ok with the stoning of kids,owning slaves and selling your daughter to her rapist,it clearly shows the sort of person you are,and it’s not a very nice one.
Still that sounds like a YOU problem.
Ken Ammi
I don’t know what you mean by “with theist I posted” but recall that on Atheism “human” is just a way of saying accidentally existing ape and so there’s no universal imperative, on Atheism, for an accidentally existing ape to be cogent.
But I see that since you’re tapped out, you decided to employ the Atheist 101 tactic of spewing personal insults and running away—how sad.
You again prove you don’t understand the issues you raise and also discredit yourself by angrily jumping to conclusions without a premise.
Please take it out on your worldview, not on me.
And that, as they say, was that.
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