In 2008 AD a debate took place at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst between Louise Antony and William Lane Craig which was entitled “Is God Necessary for Morality?” (audio: Part 1, Part 2)
At 51:39 into part 1 Prof. Antony stated:
“If he wants to know…why it’s wrong to cheat poor people, I can tell him. It’s the objective wrongness of cheating poor people. If he wants an explanation of why this is wrong, I can tell him that too. It’s wrong because it’s unjust, it’s wrong because it causes needless suffering. Those are observation facts, they’re obviously true and they’re facts whether or not God exists and they’re sufficient to explain why those actions are wrong.”
Being the debate’s premise, morality was discussed at length. Based on Dr. Craig’s questions Prof. Antony provided the answers above and yet, she only succeeded in engaging in tautology. In order to define “why it’s wrong_why this is wrong” she merely employs further moral-speak while never taking what it seems to me to be an eternal regress of sorts back far enough. To say that it is wrong because it is wrong is not to say why it is wrong but is merely repeating that it is wrong. This only creates further questions.
Prof. Antony
The issue was “why it’s wrong to cheat poor people” and the answers were:
It’s the objective wrongness of cheating poor people
So, it is wrong because it is wrong and we know that it is wrong because it is objectively wrong. But why is it wrong? How do we know that it is objectively wrong? Why should I care about poor people? Why should I care that they are cheated? Why should I not cheat them?
It’s wrong because it’s unjust
So, it is wrong because it is, and now we basically apply another term for “wrong,” unjust. But why is it unjust? Why should I care about justice or injustice?
it’s wrong because it causes needless suffering
So, it is wrong because it is, and now we basically apply another term for “wrong,” it causes needless suffering. But why should I care about suffering? Why should I care about needless suffering? Maybe if the poor suffer enough they will be motivated to work themselves out of poverty.
Her answer is perhaps due to the fact that atheist’s ultimate answer to anything and everything is to appeal to the brute fact-it just is-it is wrong because it is wrong.
It may be an “observation fact” but does not explain why it is wrong nor why I should be the least bit concerned about the plight of the poor. Thus, these facts do not take us one single step towards explaining why those actions are wrong but take us back quite a few steps.
Perhaps I am simply making a big deal out of nothing since it is enough that people do not cheat the poor because it is simply objectively wrong and there is no “why.” Is it not enough that the poor a not further suffering needlessly? Yes but. If atheist’s have no reason to do good they violate nothing when they want to do bad. If they do good for goodness own sake and do not do bad because it is just bad then there is no wall separating the two, no excuses, no justification, no barriers to cross, no hurdle to jump over from good to bad.
But perhaps Prof. Antony finally does explain why atheism is morally superior to theism and why God prefers atheism.
At 1:18:46 into part 1 she states:
“Catholics make a distinction between two forms of remorse for your sins: you can have perfect or imperfect contrition. If you have perfect contrition you’re sorry because you did something wrong and you offended God. If you have imperfect contrition you are only sorry because you are afraid of being punished. It’s ok if you have imperfect contrition, that will keep you out of hell. But perfect contrition, I was taught, was much better because it bespeaks the best possible motives for repentance. Not fear of punishment but hatred of sin, desire to do what’s right.
Now, as a young Catholic girl I always felt that my own contrition fell short. No matter how hard I tried to focus on the inherent evil of my sins I found myself thinking instead about what it might cost me later, how many days in Purgatory is this worth. Tease the cat, it’s worth it.
Later when I was in college I found my faith flagging and I was struck by I perverse insight. The perfect contrition that had alluded me hitherto might finally be achieved if I became an atheist. If I didn’t believe in God then fear of eternal damnation could hardly be a reason for me to repent of anything. If I as a non-believer felt bad for having done something wrong it could only be because it was wrong.
Much emboldened I took my reasoning a step further-maybe atheism was the only way to achieve perfect contrition, the only psychologically possible way for fallible selfish human beings to put aside concerns for ourselves in confronting our misdeeds. And wouldn’t a God who loved what was good be more pleased with creatures who saw what was good for its own sake than for those, than with those who did so only to curry favor?…atheists, if they commit themselves to justice, to peace, to the relief of suffering can only be doing so out of love for the good.”
Firstly, I wish to mention that the concept of Purgatory is problematic to the point of being non-biblical (if you are interested in why I make this claim please see what I wrote here).
Next note that what we are really dealing with is not a logical problem with the Roman Catholic doctrine but the concerns of a little girl who had her doubts and finally got smart enough to become an atheist. My tongue is only partly inserted into my cheek at this point, I do empathize with the little girl but see that the young college woman’s conclusion is fallacious.
The fallacy is committed with extremely restrictive statements:
If I as a non-believer felt bad for having done something wrong it could only be because it was wrong.
_maybe atheism was the only way to achieve perfect contrition, the only psychologically possible way.
…atheists, if they commit themselves to justice, to peace, to the relief of suffering can only be doing so out of love for the good.
Just how does she know that atheist could only, is the only, and can only, the only possible way mind you?
This is the fallacious myth that only atheist have pure motives (see Do Any Atheists Have Pure Motives?) but there is no logical reason to arrive at such a conclusion. Except perhaps to talk yourself into believing that atheism is the only one true way and is more moral than thou. Certainly, a little girl’s rightful concerns found their ultimate answer in denying God’s existence but it is an illogical concept that the now Professor Antony should reconsider and reject.
This concept is based upon various assumptions:It begins by assuming that theists are doing good due to fear of punishment, thus assuming no other motivation.It moreover, assumes that atheists do good for its own sake and not for any ulterior motive.Yet, it is possible for both theists and atheists to do good due to good old fashioned selflessness, due to seeking self-esteem, recognition, peer approval, guilt, to get something back, to be thought of as good, to be able to say “I’m good,” or any other number of reasons both pure and impure.
And why would an atheist feel bad for having done something wrong? Perhaps because it was wrong. Or perhaps because they are embarrassed, or because they got caught, or because it negatively affected their self image, or because it affected their social standing, et al.
In fact various atheists claim the opposite, at least on occasion, of Prof. Antony’s “only” view. They claim, instead, that moral actions are to be performed for the purposes of self aggrandizement and stroking our self-esteems:
During a debate with Peter Payne (which I analyzed as “Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs“) Mr. Barker stated the following reasons:
“1. “if you wish to be_a healthy person” (meaning mentally healthy).2. “if you wish to be labeled ‘ethical’ by other people.”3. “if you wish to be viewed by your society as ‘a good person.’”
4. “if that’s something you wish.”
The Humanist Society of Scotland:
“It’s best to be honest because_ I’m happier and feel better about myself if I’m honest.”
Although, why being honest should make us happy remains a mystery.
Reginald Finley (aka The Infidel Guy) and Matthew Davis put forth the following reason for moral behavior:
“if one does horrible things to people, that person will eventually have horrible things happen to him.”
This is certainly hip “My Name Is Earl” watered down karma but is obviously pseudo-morality based on the self.
Thus, maybe Prof. Antony did not stumble upon the only psychologically possible way but found a psychological band-aid.
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Later this week I will post on the issue of whether theists cannot be truly moral for morality’s own sake due to the concept of divine punishment. It will probably be entitled “The Red Light of Punishment.”
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