Are there any references to giants named Nephilim (such as Goliath) in the Bible? is a question that was posted to the Quora site and led to this discussion after a Eddie Lau, “Former Professional Structural Engineer,” commented
The following are reference examples for giants (Nephilim iנפלים in Hebrew) from The Bible.
Genesis 6:4 NIV
[4] The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33 NIV
[33] We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”
Deuteronomy 2:11 NKJV
[11] They were also regarded as giants, like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim.
Deuteronomy 2:20 NKJV
[20] (That was also regarded as a land of giants; giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim,
Deuteronomy 3:11 NKJV
[11] “For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. ( Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit.
Deuteronomy 3:13 NKJV
[13] The rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, the kingdom of Og, I gave to half the tribe of Manasseh. (All the region of Argob, with all Bashan, was called the land of the giants.
Joshua 12:4 NKJV
[4] The other king was Og king of Bashan and his territory, who was of the remnant of the giants, who dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,
Joshua 13:12 NKJV
[12] all the kingdom of Og in Bashan, who reigned in Ashtaroth and Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants; for Moses had defeated and cast out these.
Joshua 17:15 NKJV
[15] So Joshua answered them, “If you are a great people, then go up to the forest country and clear a place for yourself there in the land of the Perizzites and the giants, since the mountains of Ephraim are too confined for you.”
For Goliath and his brothers, there was no mentioned that they were giants. But from the description, they were.
1 Samuel 17:4-7 NKJV
[4] And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. [5] He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. [6] And he had bronze armor on his legs and a bronze javelin between his shoulders. [7] Now the staff of his spear was like a weaver’s beam, and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels; and a shield-bearer went before him.
Goliath was 6 cubits and a span, equal to at 9 feet 9 inches tall. He’s a giant, definitely.
I, Ken Ammi, replied
The key questions are:
What’s the usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants” in English Bibles?
What’s your usage of the vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage and modern English word “giants”?
Do those two usages agree?
Those question are key because, for example, it’s actually very, very myopic to assert, “giants (Nephilim iנפלים in Hebrew).”
To review:
Genesis 6:4 is about Nephilim—when they were alive, on the ground.
Numbers 13:33 is about Nephilim—centuries after the last of the drowned in the flood, it’s just part of an “evil report” by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.
Deuteronomy 2:11 is about Rephaim—by any other name (not including “Nephilim”) and inform us that they were “tall” on average which is just as vague, generic, subjective, multi-usage “giants.” It really means they were taller than the average Israelite male who was 5.0-5.3ft in those days.
Deuteronomy 2:20 is about Rephaim.
Deuteronomy 3:11 is about a Repha—offers no physical description of him.
Deuteronomy 3:13 is about Rephaim—who were subjectively “tall” on average.
Joshua 12:4 is about that same Repha—offers no physical description of him.
Joshua 13:12 is about that same Repha—offers no physical description of him.
Joshua 17:15 is about Perizzites and Rephaim—the latter of which were subjectively “tall” on average.
Those questions are key because it’s not accurate that “For Goliath and his brothers, there was no mentioned that they were giants” since that is what they are called but you seem to misunderstand the usage of that term, it’s merely rendering (not even translating) the word “Repha/im.”
“Goliath was 6 cubits and a span, equal to at 9 feet 9 inches tall” as per the Masoretic text yet, the earlier LXX and the earlier Dead Sea Scrolls and the earlier Flavius Josephus all have him at just shy of 7 ft.
Eddie Lau
Yes, you are right.
No one really knows (except God) whether Goliath was really the same type of Nephilim in Genesis 6.
But one thing I am quite sure is that both of them opposed God and His people. That’s what we need to know. Others are only irrelevant information, I suppose.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
Fascinatingly, I’ve asked those key questions to dozens and dozens (and dozens [and dozens]) of people who go on and on (and on [and on]) about “giants” and literally zero have replied.
It’s not accurate “No one really knows (except God) whether Goliath was really the same type of Nephilim in Genesis 6” since Any concept of post-flood Nephilim implies that God failed: He meant to be rid of them via the flood but couldn’t get the job done, He must have missed a loophole, the flood was much of a waste, etc. See, fallacious Nephilology negatively effects theology proper. Also, post-flood Nephilologists have to just invent un-biblical tall-tales about how they made it past the flood.
This describes 100% of pop-Nephilologists. And those who claim they survived the flood contradict the Bible five times.
I’ve written whole books debunking them such as, “Nephilim and Giants: Believe It or Not!: Ancient and Neo-Theo-Sci-Fi Tall Tales.”
Also, “Nephilim and Giants as per Pop-Researchers: A Comprehensive Consideration of the claims of I.D.E. Thomas, Chuck Missler, Dante Fortson, Derek Gilbert, Brian Godawa, Patrick Heron, Thomas Horn, Ken Johnson, L.A. Marzulli, Josh Peck, CK Quarterman, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba, Gary Wayne, Jim Wilhelmsen, et al.”
Eddie Lau
Genesis 6:4 NIV
[4] The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
God allowed Nephilim (Giants literally from Hebrew) to exist before AND AFTERWARDS. That’s clearly a secret that we can’t understand (just the same as why satan is allowed to deceive in this world) from our wisdom.
But as a believer, we just trust Him to work for the good of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). Goliath was believed to be Anakim who existed even down to Joshua’s time. Were they allowed to help to build in Canaan so that Israelites could dwell in well developed places?
Deuteronomy 6:10-11 NIV
[10] When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, [11] houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied,
If you are still puzzled, so am I, that’s normal and need our faith to cover this mystery that God has not revealed to us. I welcome any possible explanations to widen my knowing of my God.
In fact, the secret of dinosaurs is similarly concealed to men.
Praise the Lord, anyway.
Ken Ammi
Oddly, you wrote, “God allowed Nephilim (Giants literally from Hebrew) to exist before AND AFTERWARDS” but didn’t mention the most important part: after when/what? And please based your reply on what the verse says rather than what it doesn’t.
Since you didn’t reply when I asked you to what you were referring by “giants” then when you assert, “Nephilim (Giants literally from Hebrew)” I have no idea what you mean.
Also, since the issue is Nephilim, what does Goliath have to do with it since, as you noted, he “was believed to be Anakim” which was a clan of the Rephaim tribe?
Eddie Lau
You are right. I just understand from The Bible, the secrets of Nephilim has not been completely released.
In Genesis 6:4 ‘in those days’ were obviously the days before The Flood. So ‘afterwards’ should be after the Flood, That’s certain.
Nephilim is the Hebrew word for giants. You can google to check.
Anakim was a tribe of giants. Goliath was obviously a Giant. But whether Goliath came from Anakim, I can’t find the reference. If you have this information, please tell me.
We give witness based on what The Bible mentions, otherwise, we are only empty talk. As there are areas not revealed (or can’t find), I need to tell you just what I find.
Praise the Lord, anyway.
Ken Ammi
But if “the secrets of Nephilim has not been completely released” how do you know about them? And secrets kept by whom and released by whom?
Notice that you were forced to only quote three words from Genesis 6:4 since you realized that it doesn’t say a single word about the flood so you had to artificially insert “The Flood” in there.
The question becomes: when were those days?
Well, Gen 6:1 told us, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.”
The next question becomes: when was afterward?
Since it was after those days then it was simply after, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them…”
Thus, the began doing it then and they continued to do it but that’s all pre-flood.
I’m unsure why you advertise for Google but I wrote an entire book about the linguistics so I don’t have to search for the myopic assertion that “Nephilim is the Hebrew word for giants” which only begs the questions: what does “giants” mean? Recall that I asked you about that but you didn’t reply. Please see my book, “Bible Encyclopedias and Dictionaries on Angels, Demons, Nephilim, and Giants: From 1851 to 2010”: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B071NW4F4W/allbooks
So, when you say, “Anakim was a tribe of giants” I still can’t know what you mean and I bet that you don’t know what you mean either—or rather, you don’t know what the English Bible you’re reading means: since you didn’t want to discuss that either.
But when you assert, “Goliath was obviously a Giant” you appear to be referring to his height so that has utterly nothing whatsoever to do with when he’s called “giant” in the English Bible you’re reading: it’s just telling you he was a Repha, and yes of the Anakim clan of the Rephaim, and, BTW, he was just shy of 7ft.
Eddie Lau
Of course, you can say ‘afterwards’ can mean before the Flood, is that ok?🤣
If you want to argue anything not completely reveal, please do so. I don’t have time to argue any thing meaningless.
For me, afterwards is after Flood. That’s allowed by God but in a much smaller scale for His purpose, probably limited to Canaan. If you find it difficult to accept, fine, have your explanation as I don’t have anymore clues to justify.
Thank for discussing this matter.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
Well, I didn’t say, “‘afterwards’ can mean before the Flood” rather, I outlined the contextual text to the effect of that it refers to “afterwards” of when “the sons of God” first “saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose” but your reply appears to only be ridicule.
Now, if “afterwards is after Flood” why are there no post-flood Nephilim anywhere (besides in one sentence from an “evil report” by unreliable guys whom God rebuked)?
How did you get Nephilim past the flood so that God failed when He meant to be rid of them?
What loophole did God miss?
Why imply the flood much of a waste?
Eddie Lau
Well, afterwards is afterwards. Just listen and accept. Don’t argue,
Why God allowed Nephilim afterwards? Ask Him. If anyone knows the reason. Tell me also.
To argue secrets beyond our knowledge is waste of time, I dare not to do so.
Just praise the Lord, anyway.
Ken Ammi
That, “afterwards is afterwards” is incoherent since at issue is afterwards of when, the text tell you very, very clearly when, but you want to reject that since you want to keep holding on to man-made tall-tales, for some reason.
As for, “Just listen and accept. Don’t argue” that is a very clear window into why you’re posting un-biblical tall-tales on the WORLD WIDE, mind you, web: you hear something, accepted it, didn’t argue, and are just repeating it. I, however, reject your pseudo-authority and am being a good Berean.
As for, “Why God allowed Nephilim afterwards?” again: afterwards of when—as per the text and not your tall-tales?
Shalom!
Eddie Lau
Ok. Tell me what’s your view of ‘afterwards’ then? I want to know your answer from Bible. Don’t just imagine something without Bible proof.
It’s easy to criticise others, but without Bible proof. That’s only plain talk from men.
Please respond.
Ken Ammi
Well, that’s a pretty odd MO, that I asked, “…again: afterwards of when—as per the text and not your tall-tales?” but rather than replying you pulled a tu quoque.
Very well then, I just read what the text states (not just half of one verse):
Gen 6:4 states, “Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.”
The question becomes: when were those days?
Well, Gen 6:1 told us, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.”
The next question becomes: when was afterward?
Since it was after those days then it was simply after, “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them…”
Thus, the began doing it then and they continued to do it but that’s all pre-flood.
God didn’t fail when He meant to be rid of the via the flood, He didn’t miss a loophole, the flood wasn’t much of a waste.
Eddie Lau
You seem very considerate of God’s will but no one can exactly know except The Holy Spirit.
However, we can still trace from The Holy Bible.
Your answer to me is simply Nephilim existed before The Flood, right?
But take note of this verse from Numbers 13:33
Numbers 13:33 NIV
[33] We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”
What’s your explanation?
So I still remind you better ask The Holy Spirit to tell you the truth.
Explain this to me, please.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
Well, “no one can exactly know except The Holy Spirit” and we when He has revealed it to us. Ergo, when we’re told five times who made it past the flood and Nephilim are never on the list then we can know that.
Yes, “Nephilim existed before The Flood” exclusively.
I’m unsure why you tell me to, “take note” and for my “explanation” of Numbers 13:33 since I already told you, “Numbers 13:33 is about Nephilim—centuries after the last of the drowned in the flood, it’s just part of an ‘evil report’ by unreliable guys whom God rebuked.”
Why do you think that you are forced to only exclusively rely on one single sentence for the (supposed) post-flood existence of the most awe inspiring beings on the planet?
See, you can’t just read one single verse, pick it up, run with it, and ignore everything else.
You’re supposed to ask yourself questions such as who said it, why was it said, was it accurate, what was the reaction to it, etc.
So, are you familiar with the narrative of Num chaps 13-14?—and the whole rest of the entire Bible that doesn’t say a single post-flood word about them?
Eddie Lau
Are you in discussions for something without evidence?
We can only trace from Bible verses to see possible results. Otherwise, just give me your evidence but don’t label me. Everyone can speak from Bible with humility. Ask The Holy Spirit for confirmation of what you comment, I suggest.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
No, I’m not in discussions for something without evidence: I’m just asking you for yours such as, “So, are you familiar with the narrative of Num chaps 13-14?—and the whole rest of the entire Bible that doesn’t say a single post-flood word about them?” which you ignored.
I have had many, many, many, many experiences with post-flood Nephilologists who, when they realize they have zero reliable data to back they’re un-biblical assertions, punt to a gnostic tactic: pray about it. As if the Holy Spirit is going to contradict His revelation that He has already put into our hands.
Eddie Lau
Show me what you have found. Don’t just criticise others.
The Bible is not to talk about giants/nephilim. They are never the subject. Why waste time on them?
We study The Bible to know Jesus Christ. That’s the most important task we need to achieve.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
You noted, “The Bible is not to talk about giants/nephilim. They are never the subject.” Now, for where the Bible does talk about Nephilim please see Gen 6:4 and Num 13:33.
Also, “‘So, are you familiar with the narrative of Num chaps 13-14?—and the whole rest of the entire Bible that doesn’t say a single post-flood word about them?’ which you ignored” and ignored again.
Eddie Lau
You just want to pick my fault, right? But never see the possibility of ‘afterward’ can mean after the flood.
So what’s the point of argument when both of us hold different views.
Would you look at Jesus more closely than Nephilim/giants that were objects of destruction? That’s the only way to grow, sorry.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
Oh, I saw that possibility when I was listening to the modern-pop-Nephilologists but not once I researched it for myself.
There are many reasons why afterwards not only doesn’t but can’t mean after the flood.
The point of argument when both of us hold different views is that you’re mistaken and we’re called to correct those in error.
You have a God who couldn’t get the job done, He failed, His flood was much of a waste, etc.
Sorry, I’m unsure what you mean by, “Would you look at Jesus more closely than Nephilim/giants that were objects of destruction?”
Also, “You noted, ‘The Bible is not to talk about giants/nephilim. They are never the subject.’ Now, for where the Bible does talk about Nephilim please see Gen 6:4 and Num 13:33. Also, ‘‘So, are you familiar with the narrative of Num chaps 13-14?—and the whole rest of the entire Bible that doesn’t say a single post-flood word about them?’ which you ignored’ and ignored again” and ignored again.
Eddie Lau
Now this is your problem. Are you going to do works that you think God can’t finish? Why can’t God allow giants to do things for Israelites before they occupied?
So you are limiting God instead of helping Him.
If I were you, I would rather be humble and let Him do whatever He does. Our job is to believe that He is always working for our benefits.
Ask The Holy Spirit to confirm as I always do so to get His secrets.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
I’ve no idea what you’re going on about except that I’ve experienced this many times from people who realize they can’t substantiate their assertions: you ask supposed gotcha questions and play the gnostic card.
Also, you’re still going on about “giants” so you’re clearly not interested in being understood but it is also something some people do so they can keep making vaguely generic watered down assertions: recall that you were incapable of answering the key questions.
Shalom!
Eddie Lau
I told you very early in our discussion that no one can substantiate but just guess.
If you can, show it to me.
Praise the Lord.
Ken Ammi
To what are you referring by “it”?
That brought the discussion to an end as no more replies were forthcoming.
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